Diet as an adjunct to PMR Treatment

"My diet is pretty fine tuned to me " - and THAT is the point!

Anhaga, it is balanced I promise you.  I didn't intend my diet to be the issue in any case.  The theme I wrote was, "Diet as an adjunct to PMR treatment."  What people read was, "Please critique my diet".

Its my own fault;  Detailing my own diet turned out to be a red rag to a bull, when in fact I intended to trigger a general discussion on diet and its relation to PMR (triggered my some apparent success), and perhaps even a discussion on whether certain types of diets can impede the start of PMR.

For instance, if I can digress to my original theme;  are there parts of the world where PMR is not seen, or at a reduced rate?  Diet or other environmental factors there would be worth knowing.  I doubt that info exists though since PMR is not widely studied.  The only thing we know for sure is that if you don't want PMR, don't be old. 

Mark

 

Just suggesting that 10% calories from fat, and we are going to assume you only consume "good" fat, is not balanced.  That's all.  I do believe that severely limiting any of the three sources of our calories is probably not a good thing in the long run, the key is getting enough, but no more, calories from healthy sources.  And what a boring thread this would have been if we'd all read your post, nodded and said, good for you, and moved on!  I think there is general agreement that our diet has had effects on us, both bad and good, and I know I appreciate reading what others have done to help their PMR symptoms through diet. I really mean, help to remain symptom free as they reduce pred by eating optimum diet.

Okay, lets keep ragging on my diet.  Yes Anhaga, the diet is balanced.  The human body needs less than 10% fat to do its work, and even Romaine lettuce has a fat content of 12%.  My diet has carbs, protein, and fat.  Does it work?  Ask the other half of the world that eats as I do every day.  You know, the half of the world that gets no heart disease.

" The only thing we know for sure is that if you don't want PMR, don't be old."

That may not be the case either - I think it is routinely underdiagnosed because there is this perception it is a disease of the elderly and when the same symptoms arise in a person markedly under 50 is is ascribed to a host of other causes such as depression, somaticism, "your age", fibromyalgia (where inflammatory markers are not raised) etc.

PMR is more common the further north you go in the northern hemisphere (is there a link with lack of vit D - it is often very low in autoimmune disease) and is apparently more common in populations with Scandinavian heritage - not so much genetically speaking (because those Vikings got everywhere) but actual homeland. There is a very low incidence amongst peoples originating from Africa and the sub-continent but it is found. Mind you - all such results could be skewed because in the USA for example many elderly people accept what could well be PMR as part of getting old and/or do not have adequate medical insurance to be diagnosed and treated.

Looking at a different autoimmune disease, you find that RA is very rare amongst Indian and Pakistani populations in the sub-continent - but people who move from there to the UK may develop RA which then goes into remission when they return home. That is not very likely to be a dietary effect - mostly they continue to eat their normal diet although it is possible they add in western foods. But the symptoms of many autoimune disorders are affected by weather - and a consistently cool and damp climate is not helpful.

I have no idea where you get your figures from, but Romaine lettuce does NOT have 12% fat. It has 0.3% fat. So if that is an example of the statistics you are basing your diet on maybe you need to do some checking. 

There is not "half the world that does not have heart disease". The lowest rate of heart disease is found in Bolivian jungle dwellers. There is an article you can google "Bolivian jungle dwellers have lowest rates of heart disease ever measured" - but they have a lot of other problems. I doubt your diet bears much resemblance to theirs - they eat monkeys - which, last time I looked, are meat. 

Relatively speaking, France and Japan have very similar rates of cardiovascular disease and both pretty low at 38/100,000 for France and 30/100,000 for Japan. But the French eat a very different diet from the Japanese - with a fair amount of animal protein and dairy. Diet is not everything.

"The top five countries with the lowest rates of heart disease deaths are:

France

Australia

Switzerland

Japan

Israel"

which is quoted in an article from Healthline. I doubt your diet is typical of any of those except possibly slightly resembling Japan, though they eat a lot of fish.  If you go to a site called worldlifeexpectancy and look at their coronary heart disease stats you will find much of the EU is in the bottom 40.

There is a belief that our ancestors who are supposed to have eaten the type of diet you are on about didn't have heart disease, atherosclerosis and so on. That it is all due to the modern western-type diet. Studies done on mummies from all over the world have shown that even Oetzi and his peers had cardiovascular disease. In their 40s or so.

If you are finding your very restrictive diet is helping your PMR, that is well and good and I wish you all the best. But I don't think you should make claims about "half the world" eating a diet like that and "having no heart disease". Because it is not true. I have taken the time to check it out - others may not.

I'd  forgotten about Switzerland having the 3rd. lowest incidence of CHD.

 Fresh mountain air??

Or, (my favourite), lots of Toblerone! 

Eat, and enjoy, I say.  Don't turn diet into a stress - we have enough of that without adding more. . . . 

Walking up and down those non-Toblerone mountains...

Eileen,  ALL of the elderly in the US have Medicare, and in the lower incomes also have Medicade.  They can afford medical care.

 . . . . chewing all the while. 

In the 8 years i have been working with the charity and on the forums there have been many patients from the USA telling us they can't get/afford care. So please don't tell me everyone has healthcare. And that has been so until recently as you well know. Many patients - especially younger ones - DIDN'T have medical care because in the past they either earned just too much to qualify for Medicade but not enough to purchase insurance or they were unemployed.  

However what I said was that the figures are probably skewed and that is an historical item. Not anything to do with the affordable care act. 20 million gained cover because of it - but there are still people with no insurance.

"In the past, gaps in the public insurance system and lack of access to affordable private coverage left millions without health insurance. Beginning in 2014, the ACA expanded coverage to millions of previously uninsured people through the expansion of Medicaid and the establishment of Health Insurance Marketplaces. Data show substantial gains in public and private insurance coverage and historic decreases in uninsured rates under the ACA. Coverage gains were particularly large among low-income people living in states that expanded Medicaid. Still, millions of people—28.2 million in 2016— remain uninsured."

Are you going to tell me these are fake figures?

Not fake figures. Coverage is NOT available for the poor and often what is is substandard with lengthy waits.  Have family members with no coverage and catastrophic needs. Thank you for your info...

I was wrong about the content of fat in Romaine lettuce.  I can't remember where I heard 12 per cent, but I'd be obliged if you wouldn't generalize every fact that I know based on Romaine lettuce.

The Tarahumara Indians have at least as low a rate of heart disease as Bolivian Jungle dwellers, since they have none at all(vegetarian diet), and although China isn't in the lowest rate of heart disease (anymore...thank you MacDonalds) in rural china where they eat a purely vegetarian diet  they have zero heart disease, and there's nearly a billion of them. The source for this is The China Study, by T Colin Campbell, which is the most comprehensive study of nutrition ever conducted.

At Worldlifeexpectancy Australia isn't even in the top 10 lowest of heart disease, and South Korea, not on your list from healthline is shown as having the lowest overall.  One of the problems with choosing a specific country is that there can be radically different eating habits depending on where you are. People in Bejing for example are eating a higher and higher fat diet (and getting heart disease) while their poorer but healthier countrymen in rural areas eat vegetarian and do not have heart disease.

Japan does eat a lot of fish...more than anyone else in fact,  but they eat almost no dairy or oil, and little red meat or fowl...unless again you live in Tokyo where they're hitting Maconalds and Kentucky Fried Chicken in big numbers.

One of the things that Dr MacDougall found in his research in Hawaii is that 1st gen Japanese were very trim and healthy and stayed that way, but the second generation as they began eating a western (in this case American) diet began to get sicker and sicker, and by the third gen obesity was showing up in Children.

Now, lets consider that low death rate in France.  nearly 30 per 100,000 means that yearly they lose nearly 20,000 people to heart disease.   That's an entire small town.  I don't think that's such an impressive figure.

A "low" rate in France isn't as good as a zero rate in rural China, or the Tarahumara Indians, or the Papua Indians of New Guinea.

Diet matters a LOT.

I didn't say everyone had healthcare, you said the elderly didn't and EVERYONE age 65 and older has Medicare.

And I said and/or - the discussion was about incidence figures - and elderly people often accept PMR as "getting old" so don't seek medical care and that applies in any country. In the USA the lack of entitlement/availability of care is an additional factor. 

Do you use Medicare? Do you know how difficult it can be to find a rheumatologist who accepts Medicare? 

U.s. Citizen here--impossible. I have sorta decent insurance, 3 1/2 month wait.   My Medicare sister in law has to wait till December to see a gp, she's quite ill, down to 87 pounds.  Scary.  They have "free" health clinics for children, you have to line up outside very early to get in because they only take so many per day. My niece has stood in the rain with very sick kids to make sure she got in. I know these remarks are off topic and not helpful but I don't want people to think adequate health care is a given in the good ole USA.  And no important any time soon.

In these days of fake news aka bare faced lies it is important that we all correct honestly and politely on every possible occasion so don't apologise.

I'm in the UK so have no healthcare axe to grind. I have had a fortunate life and I give thanks.

Thank you, I regretted the post as soon as I sent it...is there a delete button?  If there is, I can't find it...hugs for you 

I don't think you need to regret it. I am aware of the real situation in many places - someone else appears not to be. You have redressed the balance as an incumbent of the situation.

US is exceptional country, land of the extremes. Some things are exceptionally good. However, healthcare is exceptionally bad, screwed up in many unnecessary ways with putting profits before health care.  The reasons are deep in culture of individualism that will be hard to change.  You can see how there is an all out effort to roll back "Obamacare" ; they have tried it and failed more then 50 times.

This is my final comment here: google this

"The China Study Revisited: New Analysis of Raw Data Doesn’t Support Vegetarian IdeologyHarriet Hall on July 20, 2010"

and read it with an open mind.

T Colin Cambell did what I mentioned before - he cherry picked data. You can prove most things if you choose your statistics correctly. His claims are not as cast iron as he says and there is considerable doubt to be cast on them.

Now, having presented the other, science-based side, I will shut up.

T Colin Cambell may claim that his work is "the most comprehensive study" - but it has been commented on by other epidemiological scientists as being "cherry picked" and the figures saying exactly the opposite of what he claimed. I'm writing this in case my other post isn't approved - taken for moderation I suspect because it mentioned the study he did in China. That tells me that patient.info doesn't consider it to be reliable work and what I have read about it confirms that in my view.

I won't comment again - I just want other people to know that there is considerable dispute about this epidemiological study - as there is about Ancel Keyes low fat claims.

 

You seem awfully touchy.

I can attest to that.  In northeast US where I live it is like Ireland.  Wet, damp, cold, frequently overcast and frequent falling barometric pressure.  When the barometric pressure is falling I have increased pain with my PMR regardless of diet.  My vitamin D is low and I take one pill a week of 50,000 IU week.  I am of Irish, Scottish, English, Scandinavian heritage.  My father also had PMR.  Even the genetic testing I had done untested PMR as a possibility.  Test was HLA DR DQ class 2.  

For sure I can say that sugar exacerbates the pain of PMR and probably the inflammation.  Since I eliminated most sugar I am doing better but still have considerable pain just not as severe as before.

Hi, Mark

Not everyone in the US, 65;and older, has Medicare.