Do I need help!

Thanks Jacqueline, I will certainly look in to that. Its really difficult to avoid it full stop. May be I should book an appointment with the GP like yourself. 

* Sinclair Method

Thank you Paul, I'll have a good nosey around : ) I can't carry on like this forever 

This TSM method is an interesting concept....I'm not a big fan thou because because our brains are producing "opiate" hormones to make us "feel good" while drinking..so simply put...I wouldn't take something that is blocking the opiate affect if I wanted to drink and ENJOY it. 

I can't understand anyone wanting to drink taking these pills? 

Taking away the "joy" of drinking is probably why the Sinclair method makes people eventually stop all together?  Because drinking is ruined when taking the pill? 

For ME..."Sinclair" would be good to keep in mind for a taper, but otherwise for ME I think it would fail for complete abstinence (but there is some studies that say it does help some people move on to complete abstinence).  However, did you know? Another interesting scientific study was performed on these drugs and it has been found that black people do not have a certain gene....the gene that is necessary for higher success with these drugs...so the drugs do not help them as much as white people...

 Why Sinclair would fail for me?

It sounds very similar to the Chantix drug for quitting smoking...they say you can smoke when you use the drug Chantix....and I DID try Chantix...and my cigs...tasted horrible - hence making me smoke less...but I finally decided...I wasn't READY to quit smoking and I quit Chantix instead.  BUT...My friend used Chantix and quit smoking.

That said, with my mindset and my need to escape with alcohol - I know if I started taking Naltraxone and didn't get the escape I needed...I would stop the Naltraxone. 

Also, I read that Naltraxone should not be taken when in a withdrawal state (at least for people who take drugs like cocaine, etc.) because it makes the withdrawal worse.  So I wonder if people taking Naltraxone and then suddenly stop drinking altogehter if their withdrawal symptoms worsen as well?

In the US...it is also suggested to carry a card on you that says you are taking Naltraxone..because if you are involved in an accident or need pain medication....the Naltraxone will block the effects of the medication and the medics should be aware that you are taking this drug.

Lastly, for those taking "drugs" to get high vs. alcohol and thinking about Naltraxone... I read Naltraxone should not be taken by people in "opiate" withdrawal (not to be used for 7-10 days after stopping an opiate) or that could cause....them more severe withdrawal symptoms because of how the pill messes with the opiate "receptors" (now its getting too technical).

 

Thanks Allan, thats interesting. I used to think the anxiety was caused by the blackouts but even on nights I remember I still have the same symptoms, although not as bad 

I here you redmick.

Just be aware that you are not self-medicating to reduce the feelings of anxiety? When alcohol goes in, its great it supresses the anxiety system which allows us to be more outgoing. Its when it comes out that it is at its most dangerous. Hightening any pre-existing anxiety disorders, eventually people like me subconciously or conciously reach for the very thing that is causing it "alcohol".

I have been abstinent for 9 years now ever since i found out about AWS. It is not some system developed to help you give up drinking, its just a biological fact discovered by a nobel prize winning biologist. I hope having this knowledge will help in your decission making, keeping you safe.

Allan

 

Great reply Allan and certainly technical. This should help RedMick I think.

Yep, 2 days is roughly how long it takes for me to start feeling normal again. Then 3/4 days later I' ready to do it all over again 

I would be very careful buying any medication on the Internet. You could be buying anything. People have ended up being poisoned by cheap fake medicines. Selincro is usually only prescribed to patients in conjunction with regular monitoring and/or counselling. Do you know exactly where the came from and the correct dose. I know it's a post code lottery, and some dr's will not prescribe it. The alternative is to pay for a private prescription, at least that way you know exactly what you're getting.

Hi vickylou

Thank you for your concern and advice, I used a UK  company called Pharmacy2U I had to fill in a health questionnaire, list all the other meds I am on and do a 14 day drinks diary, a doctor responded with his Medical credentials and registration number.  I know that some people will say it still could be a scam, but hey ho........

I did not want to wait 3-4 weeks to get an appointment with my GP who is concerned with my drinking, and who is also a total abstinace guy, I am not even sure our Health trust is supporting this drug, then a blood test, then an another appointment, referral to a drink related support service, if there is one.....all in all I took the risk.

I do liken it to a private perscription, when I next have to see my GP I will mention it, which by then I will know if I am comfortable with the drug or not, if not I will have to look elsewhere, if I am, I am lucky to be able to keep paying for it if not to be supported by my GP.

Cheers

HI Vickylou. Just to confirm with you that I have seen Pharmacy2u and they seem genuine to me. I would not worry too much and their procedures seem good. Best of luck and let us know how it all works out for you! Robin

"then a blood test, then an another appointment, referral to a drink related support service"

Been there, done that. It is terrible the way you cannot just visit your GP, say I have a problem, I know I have a problem, please give me something to help stop, right now. By all means give me advice, refer me to an alcohol support group. But do not make that a condition of prescribing me medication or force me to go through that process before you will prescribe medication.

So many people must just turn away, and return to drinking, because people are like water, they will choose the path of least resistance.

In most cases, it is only Diazepam (generic version of Valium) that they prescribe and even then, it is usually only about 10 days worth, so you are hardly likely to become hooked on it. Christ, my wife has suffered from depression a couple of times and they hand that out and Seroxat like sweets. It would be a lot easier to visit your GP and tell them you're suffering from depression and last time Valium worked really well for you, than 'fess up that you want to quit drinking.

The reason GPs stopped giving Diazepam or Chlordiazepoxide to people to do their own detox was that it was dangerous.

The mixing of large amounts of alcohol and benzodiazipine drugs (which both of these drugs are) is high risk as it can cause breathing problems. Simply giving a person a bottle of pills who may drink with them, take too many, or not enough (risking severe withdrawal symptoms) is considered too risky and deaths have occurred.

However, when GPs stopped doing it, they began to refer patients to drug and alcohol teams (many who have no clinically qualified staff) but this didn't help patients to get a detox. Some simply don't do it, others expect a person to keep a drinking diary for weeks (it doesn't work) and then, if that person manages to do everything they are asked to, they MIGHT get a detox many weeks later.

If a person needs a detox and has decided they want to do it, they need to do it within a few days, not weeks or months later.

It is right that GPs don't dish out pills for detox to people who have no support, but very wrong that there is nowhere a person can go to get a detox unless they pay to do it privately.

I understand what you are saying Paul. But if you have a decent understanding GP, that knows your history and knows you (mine refers to me by my first name, not because he is casual, but because he has known me for a long time), then they can probably evaluate the situation well. Also helps if you are married and he can give the tablets and schedule to her to administer.

At the very least, they should have the authority to direct you to somewhere that will detox you almost immediately, as you have said, when people pluck up the courage to ask for a detox, get them there and then, not three months down the line, maybe, if they jump through hoops, do a little dance and learn to ride a unicycle whilst reciting a hundred times, I am a bad person, I drank alcohol, I must self flagellate every night before bed.

Yes, if there is proper support at home, SOME GPs will help. Unfortunately, not as many as should. There are very few places that GPs can direct people for a detox.

There should be a proper home detox service in every area where there is professional support all the way through it.

My understanding from my GP, was that he had to be very careful, otherwise he could be struck off by the GMC. I mentioned this to my psychiatrist last week (she is a decent person and not someone who would talk outside the room) and she said that he had to be careful as he could lose his pension.

From my understanding, technically GPs are no longer allowed to offer detox and have to refer you to the local alcohol & drug service.

Why should being married make any difference. Surely that's discrimination! I can just see the headlines 'GP gives immediate treatment to married patients, single patients made to wait 3 months'

It's also a postcode lottery in the way in which GPs deal with with patients who have drug and alcohol problems.

Having worked as a practice manager at two different surgeries, where you live, often dictates what treatment.

one surgery was in a very affluent area and the other was an inner city area, When I was at the affluent one, there were no patients with drug problems and only a couple of patients with alcohol problems, who were referred to the community mental health team, I doubt very much if the GP had any idea of what treatment, if any was available to patients, hence referral to the CMH team.

In the inner city surgery, over 50% of patients had drug/alcohol problems and were told to use self referral either online, by phone or drop in with ADS, where they had a full time resident doctor who offered immediate detox.

 

Because it means that someone is there, that is compos mentis, that can insure you are taking the right amount and not mixing it with alcohol. Also, if there is a problem, they can get in contact with the GP.

I'm sorry, I know it isn't fashionable to be married these days, and every group wants to feel descriminated against, but there are actually benefits to it, it worked for many thousands of years, before the PC brigade came along and broke it. But my wife has lived with me for 25 years, we have both been with the same GP for the last 15 years. He knows us both, my wife knows me, my GP therefore knows, I'm in good hands and that if there is a problem, she will contact the GP.

There has to be some benefits to being married, as well as providing a stable background for kids to grow up in.

That is true. If they prescribed drugs for a detox and something went wrong, they would be in serious trouble and could be struck off. However, I believe that GPs should get together and fight against the fact that the services they have to refer people to don't meet the needs.

Every area should have a dedicated detox nurse who could supervise alcohol detoxes.

It's not about being married, VickyLou. It's about having a responsible adult present throughout the detox to ensure it can be carried out safely. We insist that this is the case when we do detoxes, but it can be a partner, sibling, parent, good friend or other responsible adult.

It was a tongue in cheek remark! and yes I know there should be a responsible adult present.

I've been married for 35 years and have 3 adult children. How would a go know if there was an adult present. You could say yes even if there wasn't, would the gp have to contact the adult? I am just curious that's all

Because my wife was in the waiting room, and the GP just opened his door, and curled his finger, into a come here moment (not derogatory at all) and she came in. He knows me, he knows my wife, he entrusted to her the admission of the prescription.

He is the best person to uderstand me, he knows all of my background, including my two month stint in hospital last year. Far more than any nurse that gives me a health check at some rehab place..

Keep me posted Sil99, sorry I haven't been on here for a few weeks. I was trying to brush it under the carpet as normal but then reality hits and I end up seeking help/guidance. Very similar it seems, and yep the guilt is unbearable for me too after a blackout. I wish like many I could have a drink and not suffer for days after with guilt, anxiety, panick. Although I know the consequences when I drink I can't help myself. Like you I can never see myself ever quitting full stop, but I would love to find a solution to slow down or take away the temptation of a heavy session. I've done research on TSM as some of the guys suggested but I'm still looking in to this. 

I can only speak about what we do and we have to speak to that person who will 'supervise,' we then meet them (with the patient) and get them to sign documentation to agree that they will follow the agreement we have with them (calling us before every dose with the blood pressure and pulse and a description of how the patient is, and calling at any times where there are any concerns about the patient). The medication is left with the supervisor and not the patient and the supervisor is asked to administer the medication and not hand it all to the patient to manage.

It's not 100% foolproof but it means that we have done everything possible to ensure that we have acted safely.

I know that some people would say 'well I wouldn't do anything stupid' and the vast majority wouldn't, but we can't possibly know that after a medical assessment over the phone and a one hour meeting with the patient, and, if there was an issue, the patient may be in no state to call for help, so we have to adopt the safest practice with ALL clients.

This would be far more difficult for a GP to do, of course, which is why I believe that there should be a detox nurse service available 24 hours a day to take telephone calls.

Sounds like you have a good GP, RHGB

Thanks for the explanation Paul. Very logical when you think about it!

That's exactly what the general manager of the stroke rehab hospital said when she had a meeting with me, when I complained about the neuro consultant and the fact that he had said I needed physio, but had let the physio department turn me down, as not need it, so I went to my GP and found myself back at the stroke hospital having physio.

Why he can get me in there and the neuro consultant based there can't, is beyond me, except possibly there are a lot of people who don't care and that my GP doesn't take 'no' for an answer.

I also have a very good psychiatrist now, who is just helping move on from my stroke and she has bullied the neuro surgeon into setting a meeting regarding some questions I have, that were put to him via the general manager three months ago and has not deemed it important enough to get around to.

There really is such a broad spectrum of people in the health service, from the very good and caring to the truly appaling and dangerous. If you're in a hospital when the night shift take over, you really need your wits about you, because they really are a different class of people to the day shift.

Hi Robin and Vicklou

Just to let you know, this morning I got a follow up email from the

Pharmacy company asking how I was coping with the drug......I must admit I didnt expect that, it was not a sales call as I have enough pills for a least a couple of months.......

Hi RedMick

Hope you are feeling a bit better today.

Since getting the pills about 13 days ago, yesterday (Sunday) was the first day I didnt take one nor did I have  drink...... although I have been drinking it is not as enjoyable as before, it feels as if I am just going through the motions of drinking, any cold liquid could do.....

However my consumption is down, although I do feel the effects of the alcohol I have no where near the sometimes debilitating hangovers I fear.

In the mornings I have felt remarkably well and pleased with myself. This morning I have had a very fruitful and enjoyable morning at work.

I will not now drink until Thursday possibly Friday which was my normal M.O. Then I will take the pills again and see how I get on.

So far so good, I feel more poitive about my drinking than I have ever before, although the silly season is nearly upon us, and I have a major challenge when I meet up with a couple of very old and very good  friends for our Christmas bash up town, none of which I ever remember.

I am already thinking up ways of telling them why, hopefully, my drinking has slowed down......

Keeping searching RedMick I am sure there is a solution for you.

Good Luck

 

hi Sil99. Well done and do try to explain to your friends that you are trying to stop. If they are true friends and genuine they will respect you and I wish you all the best! Robin

Thanks Robin.