Do we have it all backwards?

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Found some interesting theories....actually they are more than just theories... as to what acid reflux really is and how the way some folks are treating it may not be the right approach for them.

What they claim is this. Some of us do not produce enough  acid to meet the needs of our stomach at meal time. This leads to the valve that sits at the bottom of the esophagus thinking it can relax and reopen. When that happens acid can go back up the pipe and cause the burning some folks experience. Using PPI's (proton pump inhibitors) to reduce the production of stomach acid is the exact opposite of what these people need. It is only compopunding the problem of not enough acid to properly digest the food.

Taking a teaspoon of apple cider vinegar (the non-pasturized or raw, unfiltered version... $4/quart at the store) before a meal might be an answer. Apple cider vinegar mimmics the bodies own stomach acid and acts to boost what's there.

I've started doing this as of last night. I do not have reflux but I do (see my recent post) have, if I eat certain high-fat foods, severe digestion issues that are, as far as I'm concerned, still undiagnosed.

I drink it down mixed in some water. No big deal.

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  • Posted

    Hi, I have also seen this theory whilst trying to sort out my sons stomach issues. I would be really interested to know how you get on and if it works for you.
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  • Posted

    Yes that's correct! Bang on. I've been told that for a long time now.

    case in point how many people do you know who started a short course of ppis to still be on them years later with even worse Symptons than before..

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  • Posted

    George, how much do you take and what time(s) of the day? 
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    • Posted

      Just started day before yesterday so kind of experimenting with my reginen right now. Right now I take 2 teaspoons after I have my coffee in a small amount of water. Do the same at lunch, if I have one, and again before dinner.

      This is using the raw, ulfiltered ACV. Do not try taking it without water or some other liquid as it may constrict your throat as it did me.

      So far I'm finding I seem to have less stomach activity. That gurgling that seemed to be a constant... especially when I'm lying in bed. That has really deminished. No side effects so far that I can point to.

      I also got back on taking a good probiotic about the same time. Did that for years and then just got out of the habit. That works the back end of things and it really does help with that area I can tell you that for sure : )

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    • Posted

      I just bought some today, as well as tart cherry. Bought a good probiotic as well. My stomach has felt quite nauseous today, so I'm afraid to try it. Hard to even eat today. Tired of the up and down with whatever this is.....one day tummy is ok, I can eat several times a day, then next day, severe nausea, and I have to make myself eat! Ugh!!
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    • Posted

      I know I sound like a record... but make sure it clearly says raw, unfiltered and/or un-pasterized or it is worthless for you.

      I think this (ACV) is doing something for me. For lunch, while working, I had one of these raman-type noodle packets. The ones with enough salt for the entire week in one packet. Anyway, normally this will make my stomach hurt a bit right after eating. Not like one of my major "on the floor" episodes but there is a very mild pain there and for a good while, then it passes.

      Today, after taking my two teaspoons of ACV that did not happen. I'm pleased to say the least.

      The big test is for me to get that steak, egg and cheese on a bagle at MickyD's. The one that started this whole thing for me. If I can eat that and not get sick then I may be on to something, here.

      Not ready to attempt that yet... but... that day is coming.

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  • Posted

    hi agian george, I am taking apple cider for the last 5 days..intermitently, I have very strong mouth acidity and my stomach is always disturbed.. however, i think the cider aggravates (what i may think i have) yeast infection. It causes other problems while curing the first.. and This bloating and constipation is really stressing me out.
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    • Posted

      Cannot really speak about the female aspect of your issues, but I can suggest you take a good quality priobiotic for your constipation. Assuming you are not on a pain medication that causes it, and there are many that do big time, this may help you. Look for something mail order from a reputable vitamin seller. Fresh is best and store and brands are not always that fresh.

      Keep in the fridge for longer shelf life.

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    • Posted

      been consuming probiotic drink for few days already and all it does is to make me fart.. still hoping for releif.. and by the way apaya has helped me a lot.. i am also looking for fennel.... read about its good effect for constipation smile
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  • Posted

    Sorry but your 'catch all' theory is going to damage some people.

    There are probably more people with over acidic gastric systems than there are low acidic stomachs.

    And this is why PPIs are prescribed.

    Advising adding acid to acid is not going to be helpful in many cases.

    I might agree with you that GPs do not always associate Gastric problems with low acidity. But there is a simple test to ascertain whether one is sufffering from one or the other.

    Probiotics and Yogurt are always helpful.

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    • Posted

      Derek:

      You need to go back and re-read my initial post. There you will see this line: "Some of us do not produce enough acid to meet the needs of our stomach at meal time."

      No where have I stated ACV if for everyone. In fact, I have made myself the guinea pig by taking the product and reporting back my personal findings.

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  • Posted

    This is a theory commonly put forward by some "alternative" therapists but is actually unsound.

    Acid Reflux comprises two components: acid (which is chemical) and reflux (which is mechanical). The acidity of the stomach contents does not cause the reflux.

    There are many reasons for the reflux. The two groups of muscles which form the lower oesophageal sphincter do not work properly to effectively close the base of the oesophagus. One of the most common reasons for this is a hiatus hernia which displaces the diaphragmatic muscle above the phrenoesophageal muscle.

    The reason PPIs are prescribed to lower the stomach's acidity is so that the reflux is less dangerous to the oesophagus - where it can cause permanent cellular changes (Barrett's Oesophagus) that can mutate to cancer.

    The argument presented for ACV that it "mimmics the bodies own stomach acid" is false. The stomach's acid is highly concentrated hydrochloric acid which leaches essential minerals from foods changing them chemically to chlorides which are able to be assimilated in the duodenum. The very weak citric and acetic acids found in ACV do not perform this task.

    The alternative viewpoint propounded by other ACV advocates is almost the opposite of the above argument. They say that by drinking ACV before a meal, it tricks the stomach into expecting acid so it needn't produce so much. But this is much like saying you can warm the ocean by adding a kettle of hot water.

    However, some people do find ACV appears to have some therapeutic benefit so if it works for you, fine. However, I would not advocate replacing PPIs with ACV!

    There is much research evidence that shows PPIs may have a chemo-protective effect. So far I have failed to find any research that supports the use of ACV apart from anecdotal stories on "health" websites often promoted by those attempting to sell their products.

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    • Posted

      I disagree with what you say is the theory put forth by those who feel ACV can help with certain cases of abdonimal pain. From my reading, adding ACV acts to work with the stomach's own acid not cause less to be produced. That goes against what the theory states. That some people do not produce enough acid for proper digestion so using a PPI only makes their situation worse.

      You stated:

      "However, some people do find ACV appears to have some therapeutic benefit so if it works for you, fine."

      If you're convinved this is all nonsense then how do explain why ACV (appears to, for some people) work at all?

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    • Posted

      what I think is essential is the production of enough digestive enzymes regardless of whether we consume ACV or not.. the body should be able to distinguish when to produce essential enzymes and how much is needed by the body smile all arguments are correct on a case to case basis smile light and love everyone.. anyway..regardless of how it was said..we just want to help everyone and share... I for myself consumes fibers and it helps me a lot..
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    • Posted

      "the body should be able to distinguish when to produce essential enzymes and how much is needed by the body"

      Yes, correct. What this discussion centers on is whether, for those of us who suffer abdonimal pain that has not been fully diagnosed or perhaps mis-diagnosed... whether our stomach IS producing enough of what it needs for digestion.

       

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    • Posted

      Have you ever had your stomach acid levels checked? See the Tests and Diagnosis section of the www DownWithAcid or uk book for different tests and their reliability.

      If you read my earlier post, the reason for acid suppression isn't necessarily hyperchlorhydria but to reduce the danger posed by the reflux of acid to the oesophagus.

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    • Posted

      I have not. The GI doc never mentioned it. Even aftwer some $5,000 in medical tests it still has not come up

      What she did do within five minutes of meeting me was drop a bag of sample PPI's in my lap. This, prior to doing any tests to see what my issue was.

      Is this good medicine? I think not.

      The problem is, from reading some of the posts here and elsewhere, many of us seem not to be getting proper medical treatment and advice. Leaving us to search out answers for ourselves from complete strangers on sites like this one.

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    • Posted

      Yes scary isn't it 😨and some even run out of money😬 in the process...or get worse and well 😱can be left in a dark lonely world 😳 with no answers 😡
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