Do you think the right-to-die law should change?

We should be fighting for good palliative care for all, not the right to kill those who are made to feel a burden on society. Yes good palliative care to those in the end stages of terminal illness is likely to hasten death, and not preserve life, care is aimed at ensuring a peaceful dignified end.

Many of us with long term conditions already have our lives deemed not liveable by others. The way NICE uses the 5DEQ , valuing life seen by a 1000 people, when often assessing quality of life adjusted years , gives my life a negative value, nothing will ever change that as it is my norm, interestingly it does not consider continence.

I know what it is like to live with severe pain, I am never completely free of it, but it can be controlled by appropriate medication most of the time. More options are available in the end stages of terminal illness. We need to fight for better availability of hospice based care for those at the end of life, in a setting of the individuals choice,

I am sorry Jaguar about the constraints in the care homes in which you work, You seem to think I have no knowledge of the current situation. I do, Things need to change so that we can provide good care and support to all, where people do not see the simple solution as mercy killing. Nobody can do a patient satisfaction survey in countries where assisted death is legalised. How many chose to end their lives due to being made to feel a burden, did not have any attempt made at good palliative care? How many had long term conditions rather than eminent terminal conditions? When appropriate support and care is given people can have peaceful ends, but those with long term conditions can be enabled to live rather than struggle.

The Government and Councils waste money on many other things, like giving money to Network Rail to improve access, yet they manage to make many stations ten times worse and non functional for all passengers to make it look pretty. Planners fail to invest for an ageing population by pedestrianisation and making city and town centres no go areas for a large percentage of the population who is less mobile and the DWP take no account of pain when assessing people fit to work, yet some health professionals go along with it. I need to be able to trust healthcare professionals.

I work at my local hospital and the sheer number of patients who have terminal illnesses who have said that they want to go but were unable to was/is astounding.

Yes in some areas of the UK the pallative care teams are great ie Warwickshire but glos is shocking. It depends on the trust and how long a person haa done the job as trust me looking after a patient & them passing is soul destroying and if it was legal to help them go then well....that person would be out of pain not dependant on syringe drivers of morphine eyc.

@susan342

You do not appear to have read all my comments. I do not work in a cre home. All my experiences are from visits, and most of those visits have been for 4-5 hours, at various times of the day and late evening after patients have been put to bed.

This has nothing to do with your suggestion ".. not the right to kill those who are made to feel a burden on society." This is a personal decision to be made by each individual. There is no suggestion in anything I have said that involves your comment.

As for making changes I have pointed out that there simply is no money to meet your dream. Do not take my word for it: ask your MP, write to the PM.

You are perfectly entitled to make decisions about and for yourself and i would not want that to be otherwise. What I am saying is that I want the right to decide when I (and only I) should die. I have so many other rights (and responsibilities), when it comes to my life the present law says I cannot arrange how and when to die or to have access to the means. You want to deny me that right?

@chantsr89

Thank you for bringing in more information. The situation you describe can only increase. My belief is that palliative care should be there for those who want it (and it must be very good) but it cannot be provided for everyone who will need it. I do understand how you feel.

I have just watched a lifelong friend of my wife die from cancer and while the end was fairly quick we watched her decline over three months. Three long months of difficulty for her and distress for us. I also had to watch my mother-in-law for six years with dementia. Had she had any chance of making a decision never to be allowed to live in that condition she would have taken it as she was fiercely against going into care. We will never know how much she suffered over those years as she could not tell us but I knew from her facial expressions from time to time that she was in pain and distress. Psychiatrists appear to know better; maybe they should watch one of their own in such circumstances.

Are we talking about the suffering distress to family and friends or that felt by the "patient" . The latter can easily pick up the vibes of others, making them feel a burden. Yes it is distressing to watch someone you know deteriorate, especially if as a family member or partner you can no longer look after them, so that you feel guilty for the distressing situation they find themselves, especially when care is poor and drugs not given, or not given on time. Normal ward routine in hospitals does not lead to good pain control and the same exists in many nursing homes,, especially when short of qualified staff. I dread any stay.

Changing the law to allow assisted euthanasia, is the easy option at the expense of not putting palliative care at the top of the agenda. Things have to change so nobody is afraid of a poor end, but this does not mean clinicians should be given the right to bump others off. People have the right to make a living will, and refuse treatment as long as not sectioned under the mental health Act. However whilst some people in a similar position want a quick peaceful end, others are fighting for new often experimental drugs to enable them to live a few extra months with often horrendous side effects of treatment at great cost but have extra time with their loved ones. Some will try anything to cling on to life

There are no easy answers especially in a cash strapped NHS and many vulnerable patients i want to be able trust those who care for me not to make assumptions about me and what my quality of life is. I try to do my best to ensure that people have access to safe, effective care and can make informed choices over treatment. Knowing others who have not been given the choice to live when effective treatment was available, but clinicians thought their quality of life wasn't worth it, means I will always fight for improved care and support not the right to kill

No, we are not talking about others. This is entirely personal. It is also to be a decision made before any illness. When a person falls ill then the circumstances are much too emotional. The intention is that I make a decision, legal, when of sound mind.

It is not just the NHS that is in difficulty; money is badly needed there for the living apart from those about to die. Every area of government spending is under severe pressure; we have to reduce spending and that also means there is no room for switching funds, although I personally would stop international aid.

If you want to be sure about how you are treated then I suggest you consider making a living will. You can get help with this from ageuk.org.uk which I know from other experiences can be most understanding and helpful.

You are talking of what we now term as end of life care in the nursing homes we are fully trained and receptive to the clients needs and the relatives needs.

This is very much unlike the horrible death two of my siblings endured during their final days to cancer the hospice movement had not started to the oldest sibling you were on a ward where death was all around you there was no putting the patient in a side room like when my sister died.

As for the mental health aspect there is nothing stopping you making a advanced directive out just so long as you follow the rules this may in all probability going through an assessment by a not necessarily a psychiatrist but by some one trained in mental health care such as a RMN.

As we move forward in an aging population we must strive and fight for taking out a advanced directive while we are capable to avoid dying rather miserably and helpless with such things that age brings such as a CVA to name but one.

the thing is nowadays we have all these "human rights" and yet here in the uk one of the most progressive countries in the world it is illegal to help someone die even if they beg you and all you do is put the medicine out for them to take it is classed as manslaughter and that is wrong.

if my nan had asked me to help her go as she had asked others i dont know if i'd of been able to say no like the others did even if it ruined my live if it meant helping her and giveing her at least one lil bit of dignity back i probably would of said yes.

the option should be there like in sweden and switzerland etc, why should humans be forced to suffer when we dont let animals suffer the same fate, we say its inhumane yet when its the other way round its fine. if i should ever be unlucky enough to get cancer like my nan i'd beg,borrow and steal to get to there and die if it was terminal if it wasnt terminal i'd fight like hell.

it should be a persons choice and not dictated by religion as some people have said although yes i know before anyone says it catholics wouldnt.

chantsr89

Completely agree with you there, and I also agree with the religious point of view. It has nothing to do with religion it is as you say a persons right to chose when they have had enough and cannot go on any longer. This country is way behind in that field. Our so called HUMAN RIGHTS do not exist in this matter and as you say we do not allow animals to suffer so why should we.

@Nigel15 Do not think for one minute did I enter into a advance directive/ living will (whatever you may wish to call it) I hold deep Christian beliefs and practice them daily.

But God knows and is ready for us when we have made that decision to go to our Heavenly home I have had some very profound conversations over this topic from a friend of the church he is 86 I am a mere chicken at 63 but neither of us are afraid to say no to a doctor when the time draws near.

@chantsr89

Religion is a side issue and for only those who need it. As I have said before this is a personal decision for each person so those who do not want to will never have to (although they may change their minds when they begin to realise their future position).

There is plenty of evidence to show that this can be handled in a proper manner. All of us know that we cannot live forever. We may be lucky to live much longer but there is no guarantee that we will still be healthy or mentally able to continue in control of ourselves and nunderstanding. there are a number of very serious medical problems that can destroy all enjoyment of life and whether that also has an impact on others any decision must be what we have decided.

Some people change their mind after they suffer a sudden deterioration, injury or stroke.They realise that life is important to them even though the thought of living with incontinence, and severe mobility and dexterity impairments, and possibly difficulty in communicating unbearable until they have to. Often things don't seem so bad, life may be very different, but worth while. Nobody knows what tomorrow will bring. What may seem impossible to bare may become an inconvenience. Many people who have strokes recover. The only certainty in life is that we will die at some point. The medical profession can not accurately predict. People who they think will not recover do. Others give up the will to live and die without assistance. I want to be able to have trust in those looking after me without worrying about being a burden.

@susan 342

As it is the decision of each individual then it can be rescinded by that individual. You keep mentioning being a burden but you would have the right to live on whatever your circumstances if that is your wish. I repeat, it is only those of us who decide what we want to do and make all the arrangements that are taking the right to die. There would never be any intention to force anyone to die. The evidence is there in other countries where they have that right.

Law about the right to die? I don't want some sleepy old men in the parliament to decide whether I can have the right to die or not. I want to decide it myself, thanks.

It's akin to anti-abortion laws in certain countries; men bring a law about what should happen to women's bodies and the pope gives his blessing. The pope lives in a bubble and have no idea about real life.

@Arabel

That is what this forum discussion is all about. I want the legal right to decide when and how I want ot doe; others may not. When we have that legal right we can make a decision which would meet your comment. This matter is under discussion across the UK presently and hopefully it will lead to parliament giving us that legal right.