Does osteoporosis cause pain?

Very sorry Paul especially as you have kids to look after. 

thats dreaful m8, how bad are your scores?

m8 what are the score thing as i was telling kathleen they have just gave me few tablets and left me to rot tbh 

ya and no help lucky they are teenagers or i wouldnt no what to do 

You have probably had a dexascan to determine the areas and extent of your osteoporosis. The scan give you a T-score which represents the numer of standard deviations you are away from a norm (based on a youn female). The higher the absolute value, the worse is your bone mineral deficiency. (osteoporosis). Any absolute value higher than 2.5 is considered to be osteoporosis.

Must get this keyboard sorted out, it keeps losing letters!

ya got that the other month told me some of mine was 3.98 and hip was 3 .84 but that is fine no bother with it after nearly 8 months am still no wiser am on high dla now but havent been told anything keep sending me to difo doctors i havent ate in 7 months am just starting to eat small bits gone off food going for the camrea in the belly in the 13th sept see whats wro was in hosptil for few days on a drip to feed me but the hosptil dont want to no so now even if i think i have hurt my self i wont go to a and e this is all a big shock to me am 36 was 35 when 1st got told i have it i have 3 kids and they have just left me to riot they dont care tbh they gave me alot of tablets sent me mad they have took me off all painkillers till the 13th like how am i suppose to do without for that long but i got a sleep last night took a sleeping tablet dont really care any more the pain is right at all 

Don't forget the minus sign before the number!

That was why I quoted absolute values which are signless and purely give magnitude.

I'm quite well educated and I haven't a clue what you are talking about.  Please be kind to the innumerate amongst us!

Hi Aristotle.  You seem to know quite a lot about OP but I don't understand why I was told by rheumy and doctor that OP doesn't 'hurt' !!  Can you explain?

Quite a laugh really, both drs said "don't fall ".  Sad!  I love throwing myself all over the place!😏😏

Hello Conance.de

Most of my knowledge comes from analyzing the work of others and applying my version of common sense. In the case of pain and ostoporosis, it is generally accepted that the loss of bone density that is caused by osteoporosis, on its own does not cause pain but when the bone begins to crumble and fracture then the pain nerves become involved, the amount of pain being related to the density of the pain nerves and the amount of inflammation at the site of the affliction. Acute inflammation is your body's short-term response to injury or infection. Blood vessels swell, releasing fluids and white blood cells into the affected area. This is the source of the swelling, heat, redness and pain that are the classic signs and symptoms of inflammation

This is what I have deduced from my quite extensive reading although most of the authors skirt around the pain subject because of the arthritic implications. The description above is actually a very short form of what happens which is quite involved and would require many pages to describe in detail.

Hope that this helps explain the no-pain osteoporosis affliction which can be extremely painful once fractures, even micro-fractures, are evident.

Sorry Constance.de, I need to read my posts before I post them.  New keyboard organised.

Thanks.

Regards fr Constance

Sorry Anhaga, that's the mathematician in me coming out. Absolute values don't have a sign or are assumed to be positive. Magnitude is likewise just the level of an absolute number.

Unfortunately, negative numbers cause many problems for those who are not familiar with them. It never occured to me that words like absolute and magnitude would do the same. There are descriptions on search engines.

Hope that all is well with you.

Thanks.  So are you saying you just ignore the minus sign?   What happens when you are discussing a positive number? 

Effectively yes, it means that you can just use the size of a number without worrying about forgetting the signs. Of course, you must make it obvious if it is going to seen by other people, hence my use of the terms absolute and magnitude to describe the numbers that I was using.

If you are discussing a positive number then the absolute magnitude is the same as the real number. If you are discussing the number line then you should use real numbers or make it clear that you are not, if that is the case.

I had never perceived the minus sign indicates an unreal number.  To me it just helpfully designates the amount one is below an optimum bone density.  More like the temperature gauge.  I certainly have no trouble understanding what -10 or -15 means, as opposed to 10 or 15.  All I need is to know whether it's F or C.

Quite so but when it comes to standard deviations, most people in our age group don't have a clue but will understand magnitudes. This is factual in the world of mathematics where there are such things as imaginary numbers and complex numbers and etc, etc.

The minus sign doesn't indicate an unreal number and not necessarily a real number. although most of the time it is real. The absolute magnitude of any real number is a member of the domain of real positive numbers and zero.

Never mind.  I still count on my fingers!  But I do find it more confusing to not use the minus sign in this context, just as I would if we dropped the minus sign when referring to temperature.  Don't understand how your method can be less confusing.  

So if a bone density is 2, (not your -2 converted but a real 2 above zero) how do you differentiate that number from the 2 you are now using instead of -2.  What number does that 2 above zero become?  

Well obviously to someone who understands what it all means, it may not be less confusing and if you really come across someone with a real bone density of +2, I shall be amazed but agree that it may be possible and then you would have to make sure that all concerned knew what you were talking about, namely that you were using the real number scale which goes from -infinity to +infinity. I think that in our context we would be lucky to find someone at -1. How do you count -1 etc on your fingers? Do you chop one off? I sense a whole new number system is about to be born.

I only use that as an example.  Some people DO have bone density above zero.  I was only asking how you would write that number?  Make it .2 if you like.

 

http://www.niams.nih.gov/health_info/bone/bone_health/bone_mass_measure.asp

 

And I am sorry if you feel my ignorance worthy of mockery.  

 

Oh Anhaga, surely you didn't take Aristotle's comment seriously?!  It is lovely to have a little joke with one-another.  Between you you have kept me amused all afternoon.  I didn't understand half of what you were saying, but I still enjoyed it😀

I did, actually.  I kept asking a question which he didn't answer (what happens to the plus numbers when the minus numbers lose their minus sign?).  Obviously he thinks I'm too thick to be bothered with!  I really do have a problem with mathematics.  In a later age it might have been deemed a learning disability.  In my case they just let me get on with words and pictures and the numbers slid away.  Thank goodness uni accepted my high school cred in math or I might still be in first year!

Unfortunately I didn't have any plans beyond the bit that I was working on. With genuinely positive figures I should have to stipulate that the usual figures are negative but that this particular figure is positive. In this case the mathematical notation would let me down.

Anhaga, I have too much respect for you to mock you beyond a little teasing. I don't really think that you are ignorant but I sometimes find that what is almost second nature to me because of my background, leads me into areas where I am uncertain what is really required.

In this case, I unwittingly used terms which I hadn't realised were uncommon and I unreservedly appologise for any feelings of mockery that I may have caused. You are a trusted friend and I would never deliberately cause you any angst. I really wasn't criticising you and had no reason to suspect that you weren't teasing me.

Regards

Aristotle

 

Quite possibly the terms are common and understood by most people.  Not moi.  Like I said, I count on my fingers.  I visualize pictures when I hear or see numbers. That being said, I know that mathematics may be the nearest we can get to absolute truth.  

But you were quite correct to query what happened when you got to positive numbers. In the notation I was using, there is no answer beyond spelling out the detail. So really to be absolutely correct, I should either have used the negative prefix or else should have specified a reduced domain within which I would have had to exclude the positive valued T-scores which could have been even more confusing. It's actually easier to use the negative sign. I shall remember that in the future.

Bill has got a plus sign where I have a minus sign which gives him the bones of a 30 year old which I imagine is rather rare and lucky! But I need him to be strong as he is my carer.

You're like me - numbers terrify me!  At school I learnt that 2 + 2 = 4, now I'm not so sure?😀

I am good with numbers but I am no mathematician because there is a massive difference between arithmetic and mathematics. 

I play with numbers, dividing and multiplying, and know my times tables off perfectly. 

Mathematics is far more complex and I never excelled there because my brain is on the side of language. 

Funnily enough I was quite good at logic which is different again and more about making sense of words and terms. That was when there was a senior subject called Logic.

One of our daughters had encephalitis at about age eight and lost all language skills but her mathematics side of the brain was sharpened and she has been very clever with Maths helping another daughter with her PhD when it required maths.

An interesting topic unleashed lol!

Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy ...What is the meaning to Life ? Was it 4.5 ..Cant remember

sorry should have said "What is the meaning of Life ?" ( I think )

It was probably 'what is the answer to everything?' and the answer, 42, but no-one knows the question!

Shaq, 42

When Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy was being broadcast our local CBC hosted a morning program party where people were invited to dress up.  I had two small children at the time.  So I put on a flowing gown, added a rubber glove to one sleeve for the third arm, put the baby in a backpack, covered by the flowing gown, as my second head, and went as Zaphod Beeblebrox.  My daughter, about four, was dressed in a glittery top of mine which served as a sort of tunic for her, and was Trillian.  Won a t-shirt for sheer chutzpah showing up like that!

Here is a quotation from a news item dated 7 November 1996. It seems that Douglas Adams was right after all: the answer to Life, the Universe and everything, is 42. Cambridge astronomers have found that 42 is the value of an essential scientific constant - one which determines the age of the universe.

The only time I remember becoming interested in math was in my final year when we did something called co-ordinate geometry.  Mostly my memory of math is arithmetic in the early grades when the teacher kindly drew a line down the pages and pages of sums so that I only had to do one or two in each row, and I still only got about 2/3 through the book,even while my classmates finished everything.  I was unable to master the times tables, except times 5 of course.    

Of course my exercise books were full of drawings and doodles, to chagrin of teachers.  And I used to take the new reader home the first day of class and read the whole thing that evening.  

Because you are a language person. I was reading very young too. 

Reading is at the heart of everything even Maths as you cannot solve a problem if you cannot understand the question.

I love music but cannot play an instrument. 

I was only thinking today how terrible it would be if I could not read.

I think the new technologies for audio books will be our saving grace if we live long enough to lose our ability to decipher words on a page.  These days, because I spend so much time alone, one of the things I do to help me keep strength in my voice is read aloud to myself.  Currently reading the road to little dripping by bill bryson - avoiding capitals to fend off censor.  I find myself laughing aloud quite a lot.

Oh ok, good tip! I like murder mysteries, suspense, that kind of thing. I do not like sci fi. Everyone is our family does except me because they must get that from their father.

I like watching movies as well. I read online a lot as well. 

My iPad is my friend.

Couldnt even remember that        I put it all down to 'getting on a bit'