Don't want to depend more on Alcohol. wt do i do ?

Hi 

  Thank you so much for your guidance. When i was googling about my condition , i came across something called mindmattersonline , where they are calling this as alcohol dependance syndrome. I read their article _____ . and they are suggesting talking therapies, they even have video consulations , so to what extent do you think this might be helpful.

Please Suggest.

For your support , Lots of Hugs <3>

Good  article to read.. Now u understand a little more how strong cravings r controlled by the brain. PLZ read the book understanding the mind of an alcoholic.. Talks more in detail on the dependence on alcohol.

CHEERS

HOPE

That is one way Trevor, but not the only way, in my view. The AA method doesn't suit all people and the term 'alcoholic' is not one I use, ever. AA does a great job of helping people to quit drinking all over the world, but there are other ways which are just as effective

My partner was in denial, when she suffered from Korsakoff's.

This left her with two illnesses to deal with - one was alcolohism, and the other was brain damage caused by the lack of thiamine (which left her wit profound dementia!) 

AA was not for her - she had a one minute memory for new memories, and so could not remember what was discussed at the AA meetings (fortunately, they allowed me to stay at the meetings, to support her). We went to 30 AA meetings in 30 days, and she eventually admitted that she was an alcoholic, so the denial was dealt with. The issue with alcohol continues to be tackled, but without AA, as it does not provide benefit to my partner, given her profound dementia

The Korsakoff's brain damage was another story - Cognitive Rehabilation Training has been used which have helped her to develop strategies to cope and establish self-esteem.

10 years ago,when she had Korsakoff's,  my partner was 'written off' by the NHS with a prognosis of "place her in an Elderly Nursing Home" (at age 56!!). But she came home with me and I facilitated her recovery, dealing with the two separate issues of alcoholism and the brain damage(whilst continuing to work full time). She still has profound dementia, but has developed strategies which help her to live a fulfilled life, with a good feeling of self-esteem.

In my partner's case, it did al nevertheless start with dealing with the denial of being an alcoholic - unfortunately, alcoholism is an illness that has a stigma which makes it difficult for a person to admit to - but it is like any illness in that you cannot treat it until you admit that it affects you?

I'm so sorry to hear that Trevor. You certainly have gone through it. Kosakoff's is a horrible condition and caused only by alcohol. The only reason I posted my message to you was that AA are very dominant across the world and a lot of people believe that is the only way. AA is not the only method which requires a person to admit that they have a problem with alcohol which they need to do something about. There is not one treatment that doesn't require that admission. However, some use the term 'alcoholic' which I don't belive helps some people.

Firstly, 'I am an alcoholic' can have the effect of making a person think 'I can't help it, it's what I am, it's not my fault.' whereas 'I drink too much, I am doing myself damage, I am going to die if I don't change it' gives the person more ownership of the way they deal with it.

Secondly, a person is a person. I don't think labels are nice. For years, general nurses have tried to get rid of the terminology they use like 'the CVA (stroke) in the third bed on the right', 'the MI (heart attack) in the first bed.' We are people, we are not a medical condition

While I have worked with people with alcohol problems for years, it was probably a friend and work colleague I knew when I worked in Saudi Arabia that alerted me most to the AA way. He had had a problem with alcohol and used AA to deal with it. As soon as he arrived in Riyadh, he found out where all the AA groups were. He went to 3 or 4 meetings a week, he NEEDED those meetings, he had been dry for 4 years, but, from what I could see, he had transferred his dependence on alcohol to one on AA. He could never put aside the fact that he was (to use his term) an 'alcoholic.' He had learned that he would be an 'alcoholic' for the rest of his life. Instead of learning 'I have a problem, I cannot drink alcohol or I will be back in trouble' his whole existence was about this label. He handled stress very badly, I was constantly worried he would go and have a drink. I really didn't feel he had moved on. The term 'in recovery' used by AA is a permanent thing. You are still 'in recovery' after 30 years of not drinking. I accept that going to meetings and having a dependence on the support of AA is far better than drinking but I believe that a lot of people want to overcome their alcohol problem and move on without making 'in recovery' a lifestyle.

I hope that explains to you (and others) why I don't believe AA works for everybody I am not critical of those who find it helps them, I just believe it is unfortunate if people have the idea that is the ONLY solution and it doesn't suit them.

 

Hi - Thanks for your comments, but you are not correct when you state that Korsakoff's is ONLY caused by alcohol.

Korsakoff's is due to lack of Thiamine, which causes physical damage to the hippocampus in the brain. Heavy use of alcohol, and a poor diet, can starve the brain of Thiamine, and Korsakoff is typically associated with alcohol - but any condition that robs the body of Thiamine can cause Korsakoff's (eg. beriberi, Anorexia nervosa, etc). 

The denial aspect of alcohol is important, and it is essential that a person is prepared to admit that alcohol causes them a problem before they decide to try to do something about it.

I wish that it was simply will-power, as your post suggests. With the Korsakoff's brain damage, I understood oxygen into the brain would help recovery - so I 'persuaded' my partner to give up smoking ten years ago (she had smoked for 40 years, since a 14 year old!), Fortunately, she has a very strong will-power, and was able to give up, without the need to use any aids to 'stop smoking'. I am still attempting to get her to give up alcohol, notwithstanding her strong willpower.

Alcohol seems to be an illness for which there is, as yet, no cure - and the only solution for those who have the illness is continued abstinence from alcohol. I have diabetes and similarly I need to abstain from certain foods (by the way, I am a diabetic - similar to an alcoholic, I have an illness. But my illness does not have a social stigma attached to it!)

Hello Trevor

You are correct that it is possible to get Korsakoff's without excessive drinking and that a thiamine defficiency is the cause. However, it is strongly associated with excessive drinking and rare in other circumstances.

I agreed with you that it is essential for a person to accept that they have an alcohol problem. I just said that they don't have to call themselves an 'alcoholic.' It is impossible to treat an alcohol problem in a person who doesn't accept that it exists.

I most definitely would NEVER suggest that it is all about will power. I am not sure how you read that from what I wrote

Physical dependence on alcohol IS an illness and I didn't mean to suggest otherwise if that is how you read what I said. Alcohol is one of the most addictive chemicals on the planet and, unlike illicit drugs, withdrawal without medical assistance can kill a person.

My big concern, Trevor, is this. I have worked with hundreds of people with alcohol problems and well over 50% have tried AA and hated it. Some people don't believe in the 'higher-being' that is used in the twelve steps, some don't want to stand up in a group and talk about their private issues to people they don't know and some don't want to label themselves for life because they accept their alcohol problem, but they don't want it to be their identity. I only want to highlight that there are many different ways to treat the psychological aspect of alcohol dependence because a lot of people come in here saying 'I tried AA and didn't like it' and feel that there may be no other solutions.

I have type 1 diabetes too but I see it as a balancing act with my blood sugar and insulin and, apart from before I was diagnosed, when I felt awful, I have never felt ill with it. I think type 1 is easier to deal with than type 2 because you can just use insulin to fix a high blood sugar and get rid of the irritating symptoms of that within a few minutes. I think type 2 is much tougher to deal with.

Your partner is lucky to have a supportive man like you by her side.

Hi Paul

Many thanks for your message - I think that we are on the 'same page', and agree more than we disagree. I used the AA only to help with the alcohol denial stage.

I think that the attitude of a few within the NHS to those with an alcohol problem does need some improvement - in my partner's case, when I asked a senior consultant, on his ward round with students 'in tow',  about a scan for the brain damage, I was told quite loudly that "we have told you before that it is Korsakoff's! It is self-inflected and her own fault!"

I did not get much support from the NHS - my understanding of the brain injury issues came from a one-hour telephone conversation that I had with a consultant in Australia (found through the internet) - which was followed up with him sending me hard-copy material (books - this was 10 years ago!) through the post (postage A$26, which they paid). The advice from Australia cost me nothing!

My partner no longer has physical dependance on alcohol, but it is more difficult to 'beat' the psychological dependence - especially in someone with profound memory issues!

Are you aware of whether there is a support group for Korsakoff's patients?

I agree with you totally about some health care staff's attitude to people with alcohol problems. I certainly don't believe that blaming an individual for their dependence (or past dependence) on alcohol is helpful or constructive. Some people drink a massive amount and are able to stop drinking without a real problem, others find themselves physically dependent after having consumed a lot less over a shorter period of time. That fact doesn't take away the responsibility on the individual to deal with the issue but it does, in my view, mean that apportioning blame is unfair.

I haven't worked in the NHS for 10 years now but I know that was what I saw when I did, that those with Korsakoffs were rarely able to access specialist treatment and those who needed long term residential care were simply categorised the same as those with Alzheimers and other forms of dementia. Relatives were given very little in the way of support.

I have not known a Korsakoffs support group that people  can physically attend but there must be some. I just did a quick Google search and there are some online support grups and resources.

Have you thought about setting one up? There may be many people like you who wish they had access to a decent one and it would be helpful for you to have others to share experiences with.

Let me know if you are interested in doing that because I also have an Internet business and can sort you out with a solution for hosting and an online forum (free of course, although you would need to register a domain name which would cost a small amount which would need to be paid to the domain registration company).

Hi Paul- thanks very much for your positive response. Online Korsakoffs groups seem to focus on North America (ie. non-NHS) but I will try them out first before taking up your option of setting up a separate site - which is very interesting. The domain "KorsakoffGroup .com" is one domain that is currently available - I wil 'test' out the existing forums within the next couple of weeks before deciding whether I think that a separate new forum would be of any value, and if so will purchase a domain.

In the case of my partner, Cognitive Rehab has had a very beneficial impact on outcomes - but it is not included in the NICE pathway. I have written to NICE suggesting that they review the pathway if possible.