Failed Radiofrequency ablation or Varicose Vein operation

Thanks for your reply Christine. I am very sorry for your bad experience and pain. I feel very sympathetic to you as I also had very bad and long lasting list of problems with V.Veins procedures. I had in total 5 operations on the same leg- two in Royal Free Hospital and Two in Charing Cross Hospital and none of them were successful. I still have very bad V.V and every 6 months suffer from recurrent thrombophlebitis. Do you mind me asking you where did you have your RF ablation. Was it in NHS or privately? I am thinking to start saving money and try to do my next treatment privately as it seem I  cannot really on sorting it out on NHS. Or I was a particular unlucky?

My surgery was done on NHS in Darlington but because of the trauma and resulting pain in the days following, I paid for private consultation at Woodlands Hospital in town.  This was the best £150 I have ever spent Antonia because it was only then I learned that when the surgery failed, the surgeon proceed to inject my leg with foam - a procedure i did not sign for and I now have a thrombosis in my thigh as a result.  I purposely did not choose to have foam as I had read it takes a long time to disperse in the body and can cause thromosis.  Hate to bring you all this gloom when you are in pain but I am very glad to have heard from you.

It's awul to have thrombosis, I had it many timesas well.

Unfortunately I also learned that the vascular surgeons on NHS mainly trained to do operations on arteries and very often they are not good at dealing with veins. I also had a private consultation and detailed scan and had to pay £850 and what I learned was really shocking- despite me having 5 operation on the same leg- NONE of my incompetent veins inside of my leg were ever treated- and all of my 5 operations were inadequate (and I have about 27 scars on my poor leg). But I cannot afford private treatment at present and I am really reluctant to have operation number 6 at the NHS Hospital but I do not know what to do really? Keep me updated with your recovery. I hope you have less pain now?

Your experience has been far worse than mine Antonia.  Apart from the £850 - to have had 5 failed surgeries, fills me with horror.    I did price private treatment was it was far out my league but the way I see it is this, I went into hospital fit and healthy, and now depend on support stocking, cannot stand, sit, walk, or dance for very long without being in pain. My dearest wish is that this will gradually improve but some days I wonder if it ever will.  Thank you so much for contact.

Regards

@vascularme:Are you working at private clinic? I was told by well known Professor at Charing Cross H. that’s on the NHS it happens regularly with 10-15%of patients.

Thanks for your reply. It seems that the NHS treatment of Varicose Veins in the UK is really behind the US. I am interested how often you have  recurrent V.V after RF ablation? Here in the UK it's very high-over 60%- and it's mainly because patients got wrong or incomplete treatment. I feel myself a victim of inadequate and very old fashioned surgery. And doctors here think that V. V. is something trivial and do not pay enough attention to it. It wasn't a trivial issue for me- I had to give up a full-time job in an Airline company as a result of recurrent V.V and phlebitis. I regret that I didn’t take out private insurance when I was working. After 5 unsuccessful operations on the NHS I have been stuck with this problem for 25 years and am trying now to save money for proper treatment. In your experience what is better - Laser or RF ablation? Or does it not make any difference as long as a competent specialist is performing it?

In my opinion it doesn't matter laser vs RF. I personally like the RF better.  There are three main factors that contribute to quality vein care. 1. The skill of the vascular technologist has the greatest impact on successful vs unsuccessful vein surgery. The identification of correct anatomy and the correct diagnosis drives treatment. It doesn't matter the skill of the physician if the testing is not performed correctly.  2. Treatments outside of endovenous ablation. Ultrasound guided sclerotherapy is essential to close tributary veins, varicosities and the distal saphenous vein post ablation.  Many surgeons stop treatment in the calf or even thigh and leave the remaining saphenous vein - this is very common and a major reason for development of more varicosities 12 months after procedures.

3. Doctors dabble in veins and often it is not the focus of the practice.  They don't have the technical staff to diagnose properly and they don't offer ultrasound guided sclerotherapy. They may be world renowned surgeons and simply suck at treating veins and often are unaware of the issues at hand.

Thank you for your quick response.

 

I'm in So Calif. and have heard about this RF work, but I'd NEVER do this...this is scary stuff....I'll deal with my back pain issues....no surgery no ablation.

Joy47826 there are many uses for RF ablation. This instance is for venous insufficiency. The procedure is not scary at all, takes 30 minutes. In the hands of an experienced vein specialist it is one of the few minimally invasive procedures that can change peoples lives. Venous disease affects lifestyle, fitness, overall health and of course appearance.

Oh that is interesting...I know when I started on Grape Seed Extract back in 1995, 19 yrs ago this was one of the 66 some health issues Grape Seed Ex addresses.... Here is info from a link on this subject:

Grape seed extract is a natural remedy often recommended for chronic venous insufficiency. Some proponents of grape seed extract suggest that the antioxidants found in grape seed can help fight chronic venous insufficiency by strengthening the blood vessels and improving circulation.

Grape seed extract is also touted as a natural remedy for several other conditions related to the heart and blood vessels (including atherosclerosis, high blood pressure, and high cholesterol).

Chronic venous insufficiency, a condition that occurs when veins fail to efficiently send blood from the legs back to the heart, may lead to problems like varicose veins, ankle swelling, pain, itchiness, and nighttime leg cramping. Chronic venous insufficiency generally results from partial vein blockage of blood leakage around the valves of the veins, and is often treated with compression stockings, lifestyle changes (such as avoiding long periods of sitting or standing), and/or surgery.

Benefits of Grape Seed Extract for Chronic Venous Insufficiency

To date, few scientific studies have tested the effectiveness of grape seed extract in treatment of chronic venous insufficiency. Although several clinical trials published in the 1980s and early 1990s found that grape seed extract helped improve several symptoms of chronic venous insufficiency (such as itchiness and nighttime cramping), there is a lack of more recent research on the potential benefit of using grape seed extract in treatment of chronic venous insufficiency.

For a 2005 report published in the Cochrane Database of Systematic Reviews, investigators sized up the available research on the use of phlebotonics (a class of medicines used for vascular disorders) in treatment of chronic venous sufficiency. The reviewed studies included one clinical trail that involved the use of grape seed extract. In their analysis of study results, the report's authors concluded that there was not enough evidence to support the use of grape seed extract in treatment of chronic venous insufficiency.

I take both Pycnogenol and Grape Seed Ex and I know Pycnogenol came to the U.S. from France in 1994 and maybe grape seed too...

I've been known to preach grape seed ex for fluid build up....I've used it twice for build up from a blood pressure med and after hip replacement surgery.....upping my dose got rid of the edema. This supplement is a miracle in my life....

Oh I add that the reason I started on Pycnogenol in 1995 and stayed with it for a year and then went to Grape Seed Ex....we were told at a health lecture by MD's and researchers that it MAY prevent cancer...."P" had just gotten to the U.S. from France and it was HOT on the alternative peope's list.

To my great surprise and amazement the first issues to leave my body were lifelong allergy and sinus issues, NEVER to return and it's 19 yrs...I have not bought a allergy/sinus drug in 19 yrs....and before that OH BROTHER....

So this is my story on these antioxidants.....I'm never sick. I was 57 when this wonderful supp found me and I'm now 76. Never a flu shot here either...

This is from the Cleveland Wellness Clinic a highly respected healing clinic in the U.S.

DOSAGE:For chronic venous insufficiency (leg swelling or hemorrhoids), take grape seed extract in a dose of 150-300 mg per day.

CONCLUSION:We conclude that grape seed extract is a safe and effective product for chronic venous insufficiency, or swollen legs or hemorrhoids due to lack of tone in the veins. It may also help reduce leg swelling after surgery or injury, but this requires further study. It is well tolerated, and the downside is relatively minimal.

REFERENCES

“Grape Seed.” Natural Standard –The Authority on Integrative Medicine. Natural Standard, 2013.

“Grape.” Natural Medicines Comprehensive Database. Therapeutic Research Faculty, 2013. 8 November 2013.

Vogels, N. et al. The effect of grape-seed extract on 24 h energy intake in humans. European Journal of Clinical Nutrition (2004) 58, 667-673

Pajuelo, D. et al. Acute Administration of Grape Seed Proanthocyanidin Extract Modulates Energetic Metabolism in Skeletal Muscle and BAT Mitochondria. Journal of Agricultural and Food Chemistry (2011) 59, 4279-4287

There are several natural supplements that can decrease symptoms of venous insufficiency.  They reduce symptoms, however venous insufficiency is a functional disorder. A glass of wine will help with back pain but it doesn't treat the reason the back hurts. Google chronic venous insufficiency under images.  You are fooling yourself if you think that grape seed oil can repair venous valves.

Well, I don't have that issue, but I recall it on the list of symptoms that are addressed with grape seed ex and or pycnogenol....maybe that's why I don't have the problem and it's not OIL I use... I don't recall the "valve" word used.....OK, maybe someone learned something new...

Thanks, Joy. I am sure that natural remedies are beneficial for your health and possibly improve blood circulation. But I tried so many different creams and supplements- flaxseed oil, horse chestnut drops, red vine leaf extract, diosmin and so on…and nothing stopped my varicose vein to get worse. As soon as incompetent veins come out- nothing make them to become normal again in my experience. I wish it would be some miracle cure like grape seed ex.–it would be great!

My daughter, age 51, has some varcoise veins but hasn't mentioned them in a long time, she's been taking grape seed ex for off and on 8 yrs or so.....now I believe she's sold on this supp and won't go off it...for many other reasons too.

I know of people who have gone thru the stripping of veins, this one friend has smoked for over 50 yrs and she had her veins stripped....smoking can't good for anything including our circulation.

I have some spider veins on my right inside of knee but don't think about it.

Good luck....

hi I think its a good idea to take vitamins and grapefruit seed extract sounds good .I Ddid read thoigh that it can cause bleeding . one of my varicose veins exploded and bled profuseley so am a bit wary of taking it . though the thought of any of the treatments sounds scary. i have heard Rutin is good  . jhas anyone experienced bleeding with this?