Posted , 11 users are following. was discovered recently that this drug can aid to cause aggressive form of prostate cancer (Medical News) , one site also said that it's equivalent of Saw Palmetto which will not have same side effects to say the least...

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  • Posted

    I took Saw Palmetto in several different forms for years when I was self-medicating due to all the ads and hype about fixing your prostate yourself. It's simply nonsense, I never saw any benefit from any of the prostate supplements and I took at least a dozen of them. Pure quackary in my opinion.  

    Here's the simple truth, I've been there. If your prostate has grown so as to inhibit your flow, getting you up multiple times at night, becoming a problem during meetings at work or with your family, on the verge of embarrassment daily then that's just normal for many of us.  For us the prostate grows and may eventually cut off your ability to urinate completely. The supplements like Saw Palmetto never helped me but maybe at the earliest stages it might help some guys. But rest assured the next inevitable steps will arrive like clock-work.

    1) You will visit a urologist. 2) he will say, piece of cake, just take these pills and you'll pee like a race horse. 3) You are in considerable difficulty so you take the bait and take the pills, you pee good and you're happy. For awhile. The prostate grows some more.4) You discover that sex is not so much fun anymore, maybe we'll just phase that out. You're not ejaculating anymore anyway, so what the heck? The prostate grows some more. 5) Maybe you would like to get your sex life back,  So far your urologist has told you Jack Sh*t about the pills chemically castrating you as the prostate grows some more. 7) Not only that but the pills are not helping as much with the urine flow anymore.) Visit the uro and he says, not to worry, we've got more pills, tough about your sex life. As the prostate continues to grow.  8) You take more pills and for awhile your sex life is now history but you can pee 9) then the moment of truth, the prostate is now as big as an orange or bigger, like mine was, and no amount of meds are going to shrink it enough to have a decent life. Every day becomes an embarrassment, you wear dark pants so wet urine spots don't show, You always find out where the bathroom is where ever you go, you lose a lot of sleep getting up every half hour to go dribble a little.  10) so surgery is the only option and there are good procedures to fix the problem. But here's the no brainer,  you should have had a surgical procedure at about stage 2 before the pills castrated you. Now you've got to have the surgery and you've lost your sex life as well.

    Just stay off the damn pills, man up and find the best surgical procedure to fix your problem. The pills are the worst possible solution. It ain't worth it. My experience and my honest opinion. Good luck!    

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    • Posted

      Yeah but how many years did you avoid surgery because of its dangers and side effects until the penny dropped that it is the only answer.

      You could have avoided those years and by now have had your second surgery after your prostate regrew.

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    • Posted

      A lot of years, (twenty or so) of being inconvenienced by having to get up in a meeting and go to the bathroom or having to make a bathroom stop every 75 miles or so on a road trip) beginning to get up multiple times at night and having to dry out drinking nothing after 8 pm,  etc etc. Nothing really serious, trying saw palmetto and other weeds, bark, leaves, animal manure, whatever they put in the over-the-counter stuff.

      I can self-medicate, dang right!.  

      Then I finally started going to a uro about twelve years ago, got the first meds, then some more and then they didn't work anymore.  

      If I had known then what I know now I would have gone to Dr Lingaman at the University of Indiana at least eight years ago, maybe as much as twelve years ago. He was using the Holep method then and teaching the Drs around the country who do the procedure today.

      If we had only known the misery we could avoid, but how are you supposed to find out if your health professionals perform another "gold standard" procedure and that is all they will recommend?

      The truth of the matter is that you probably won't get the best solutions from your local Dr. You also won't find the best solutions yourself unless you are in deperation, not believing your Doc, not wanting any kind of surgery and desperate to find something that suits you as you see your condition personally. I suppose that I never would have started to search if there was another med available that would put off surgery a while longer.  But there weren't any more meds so I had to find my own solution and I just about waited too long.

      I was beginning to question the advice of uros who really wanted to test me for prostate cancer with a series of needles up my rear risking infections, spreading around whatever there might be there and having no indication of cancer in the first place.

      One of my first uros was an old guy who needed to make a boat payment I guess and the first thing he wanted to do was a cancer test. I told him that I had learned that a PSA test is usually sufficient and that my PSA is very low and I understand that a series of needles taking samples can do more harm than good. He asked where did you get that, the internet? I replied yes and I left his office.   

      The truth of the matter is that if I had found a Holep Dr then and had the procedure done I would have been through with prostate problems for the rest of life. There wouldn't have been any regrowth, Holep removes almost all of the contents of the prostate capsule and it doesnt regrow. 

      But would I have done it? Probably not because I wasn't desperate enough for any surgery even if I knew it would take care of my problem.

      As Yogi said, "It's hard to make predictions, especially about the future". He was spot on.   

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    • Posted

      Well said, Derek.  I just read about RonTexan’s surgery success and I am very glad that all went well for him.  I hope it continues the same in the future as he has suffered a lot.  However for the benefit of others who may be considering surgery he let his prostate get out of hand before taking action.  HoLep is not the gold standard for ordinary BPH, it is principally used for those with extremely large prostates.   TURP has been the gold standard and now PBVP (Plasma Button Vaporization of the Prostate or more commonly Button TURP) is considered the gold standard.  What happened to RonTexan is that he let his prostate get way too large and his problems become too severe before having surgery.  Due to the size of his prostate HoLep was about the only option available to him other than open prostatectomy.  If he had had a regular TURP years ago he would not have suffered through all these years.  I am 68 and had a Button TURP in August.  My results have been superior to his.  I had no incontinence whatsoever and the same level of success regarding urination and side effects.  The difference is that I acted before my prostate got out of hand, he did not.

      Again, for the benefit of others who may be considering surgery my prostate was very enlarged but nowhere near 114 CCs.  I had a routine procedure 5 miles from my house, did not have to fly out of town and fly back in diapers, had minimal pain and minimal bleeding for about 3 days, no incontinence whatsoever and I can urinate like when I was young.  My sex life is very good, especially for my age.  I did have to wait 6 weeks to have sex in order to allow all to heal.  An unexpected benefit is that I only have partial retrograde ejaculation – some comes out and some stays in.  I expected that none would come out.  My Uro advised me that 80-90 % of my prostate was removed, the same percentage HoLep tends to remove, and that my PBVP should last about 15 years.  I also had a third lobe protruding into my bladder and it was removed in its entirety.  Anyone that says a given procedure removes all and that the prostate will never regrow is whistling Dixie.  The fact is that the amount that stays behind however small will continue to grow.  RonTexan reported that 85% of his prostate was removed, the same percentage as mine, and if that is the case the other 15% will continue to grow.  If one is old enough that may not be a problem as there may not be enough time left for the regrowth to require surgery.  As I am 68 I may have to have another procedure, time will tell, but if I have to have another Button TURP 15 years from now it would be no big deal as this one was a piece of cake.  Again the key difference is that I did not wait until my prostate got out of hand.

      All of us should keep in mind that the people who tend to post in forums are those who are having difficulties.  There are thousands of ordinary TURPs done each year in the US alone and nearly all go well.  My father who passed away this year had an ordinary TURP about 25 years ago.  He had no complications at all and he never needed another procedure again.  So for anyone out there who scores over 20 in the IPSS BPH test, don’t let the horror stories keep you from having surgery.  I scored 21 prior to my surgery and I am now at a 4 or a 5, a great outcome - most nights I don’t have to get out of bed at all.

      I also want to mention for those that may indeed need HoLep that the name of the doctor in Indianapolis is Lingeman, not Lingaman.


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    • Posted

      CS, sounds like your TURP went very well and despite our differences I'm really glad to hear it.  I agree completely that my condition was a result of waiting too long. As far as potential regrowth goes, my Dr's record is less than 1%.  I don't know about Dr Lingeman's record..

      TURP may have worked really well 10 or 12 years ago when I started taking meds.  But my uro only started doing the button-type TURP about 5 or 6 years ago so I would have had an older procedure.

      I'm now 21 days post-op and had sex last week at 16 days with no pain or blood.. Can't say it was like being young but it's better than pre-op for sure and at 76 I'll take it.  I'm still having RE and that will continue forever, I'll just have to live with it.

      You know, the debate will continue as to which procedure is best for younger, smaller prostates.  With the fact that the meds keep getting better and better Uros are going to be confronted by more and more huge prostates like mine. I have read of some that are 250 mg or more. At that point only some type of open prostectomy or HOlep is possible and those were the only choices available to me.

      Our debate; TURP or HOlep,  serves a very useful purpose in giving BPH sufferers real-life, actual experiences of both methods. You and I and dozens of others have really laid it out here for all to see and I'll maintain that our posts are as valuable as the advice of many healthcare professionals, mainly because we don't have a financial stake in our procedures.

      My advice to younger sufferers just beginning to take the meds continues to be: don't do it!  Have a surgical procedure done, even if it is a stop-gap measure like Urolift, just don't take the meds.

      One healthcare professional in these threads stated that he would never have any kind of major surgery without it being done in a large well-funded teaching hospital.  I took that to heart when I chose the Mayo Clinic and my experience supported this exactly.

      The whole thing in choosing your Dr, the method and facility is about increasing the odds of a good outcome at every decision point. That's what it is all about. 

      Continue to post CS, I know we are helping others. 

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  • Posted

    Ok, moderator, I guess I got a little carried away, can you put a few hyphens in for me? Thanks
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    • Posted

      Hi, Ron   (Tex Cobb comes to mindwink

      Yes, most of these pills are worthless agreed.

      The only difference between us is: my "med" (flomax) experience was limited to 1 pill. I was near death from that 1 pill and that was quite enough.

      The only thing that keeps me going is:  I have seen some people who have found SOME people who have found relief--one way or another. I myself have found relief over 3 decades and have hurt myself by eating things I know to be damaging--chocolate, spice, alchohol, SOME gluten products, etc.  So I always look for the holy grail of natural remedies. This week, it's aloe vera, mini-trampoline, and staying off the above foods/beverages completely.  Today, I tried something completely different...beta sisterol placed in a coconut oil "home made" suppository. the theory is: beta sisterol is completely absorded down there--not orally. We'll see how that goes within a day or two.  Yes, manning up would be the wise thing---but I'm chickenwink  

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    • Posted

      I remember Tex Cobb, one tough brawler indeed. It's a wonder they didn't kill him. I understand he went to college, got a degree insports management or some such and lives today in Pennsylvania.  

      Lucky, there's no doubt more practical real-life patient testimonials about surgical options at forum "Turp operation or laser ?or leave alone?"  than anywhere else I have found on the internet. I posted a lot there about my five month journey through Dr's offices and on-line to find the best solution for me. (on-line poster's real experiences in these forums were far more informing than the Drs' recommendations). I was so ignorant about surgical options that I spelled Holep as Holeb many times. When you read these posts note that they are not in chronologocal sequence and that replies are often many posts below.  So, note the date of a post as you read.

      My experience in a nutshell is I wanted Urolift as a several-year stop-gap measure until something better was developed. I didn't qualify for Urolift so I then discovered Holep, had it done 20 days ago, no pain, some pink urine and I am now 17 again (once I restore my sex life).

      In my opinion there is no need to take supplements, meds and or get Urolift to wait for a better solution.  Holep was a easy as urolift for me and it is a one-time lifetime solution as the prostate does not continue to grow. I wish I had done it at least five ears ago.


      Best wishes to you and yours as you begin your journey.

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  • Posted

    I've read of that connection. Finasteride caused me to have sensitive nipples and then breast growth. The breasts went down but I still after nearly two years have itchy sensitive nipples.

    I did take saw palmetto in tincture form for over nine years it did not stop my prostate from growing but helped my flow and urgency.

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  • Posted

    Thank you T

    I can believe that since 1 pill almost killed me.

    I can't believe this poison poses as a therapy.

    speaking of saw palmetto, has anyone heard of the Chicago cure? A beta sisterol suppository that reaches the prostate with far greater efficacy than oral dosing. Sounds like my kind of treatment.

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  • Posted

    I had to Google Saw Palmetto!  When I next see my GP I'll ask him about it.  So far, my only Finasteride side effect (and even that is an unproven link) is the belly fat thing.  I'll keep watching the discussion, though.
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    • Posted

      You doctor cannot prescribe it as it is a herbal remedy. He may not approve of it but doctors in Germany do prescribe it.

      Are you in the UK.? I buy my tincture of saw palmetto in litres directly from the maker at a fraction of of the cost from herbalist shops.

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  • Posted

    I like Ron took Saw Palmetto for years with no success at all.  I have also taken Tamsulosin and Avodart with no success either.  The Avodart is a real killer of your sex life.  I mean seriously it just kills it.  I had a PAE procedure on Sept. 10th of this year and now Iam waiting to see if it indeed shrinks the prostate by 25 to 30% like advertised.  I guess we'll see.  So far I have not seen any success as Iam still getting up on average 4 times a night.  Eventually I might take Ron Texans advice and see about getting a "holep" procedure.  But I have to give the PAE a chance to work first.   God Bless all of You.  I know thats not politically correct but at my age I don't care. 
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