Gallbladder is gone so where is this pain from?

May I recommend that if GI is unable to diagnose the problem beyond IBS, you see vascular and nuero surgeons. It is quite possible that the cholecystectomy resulted in injury to veins or nerves.

I hope you all find answers, solutions and relief.

Dian

Hello everyone, I've had the exact same symptoms many of you are describing. My gallbladder was removed a little over two years ago, I've had no pain up until just recently.  All of my bloodwork and scans have come back completely normal. I've been passed back and forth from doctor to doctor, and they look at me like I am crazy.  My pain can get so intense that I am in tears and don't want to move.  I finally saw a physical therapist the other day and she was able to give me some relief and insight...here it goes...she said that when there is a major surgery, your body repairs itself with scar tissue. She said the scar tissue may have come back and attached itself to the ligments along the diaphram which makes it very painful to move and bend (right under your ribs) along where your scars would be.  In my case, I have had lot of difficulty eating and when I burp, I've had a bile taste, she said the scare tissue may have even pulled a ligament down around the sphincter of oddi. 

I saw someone in a earlier post say they got relief by using a tennis ball along those muscles.  Seeing a physical therapist or just learning how to message the area properly may be what we need to loosen up the scar tissue over time.

I had the surgery on 5/16/17 but, a problem accured on the table.  I developed a temperature of 105 and almost died.  I spent 2 days in the ICU while they worked to bring down the temp.  Now I have terrible pain where the gall bladder used to be and no one can tell me why.  If u have any ideas I would appreciate your thoughts.

thanks

I have had my gallbladder out

so why am I still having gallbladder

pain? Biliary spasms affect

from 2 to 10% of people who

have had their gallbladders

removed. A few people have it

with intact gallbladders. It is

more common among women

then men. However, the causes

of this syndrome are still unclear.

It is generally considered a

functional distorder that has a

psychological component

(somatization) and may

increase under stress. The

condition has symptoms of

gallbladder disease pain and

can start from a few weeks to

years after the gallbladder has

been removed. Burning pain

in the epigastric (upper

stomach) area radiates around

to the back or under right

shoulder blade. It often begins

about a half hour after eating

and can last for several hours.

There can also be cramping

under the shoulder blade or

back and the stool (bowel

movement) can be light tan if

the normal amount of bile is

not going into the intestine.

These spasms and burning

sensations are thought to be

caused by contractions of the

common bile duct (the duct

that allows bile from the liver

into the small intestine) or a

tightening of the Sphincter of

Oddi (the muscle opening that

controls the flow of bile and

pancreatic enzymes into the

small intestine). Sometimes

"gallstones" can form in the

duct that may not be visible on

Ultra Sound that will produce

these symptoms. What is the

medical treatment for this

syndrome? Although this

syndrome is likely related to

stress, surgery is often

recommended to eliminate the

spasms if anti-spasmotics,

nitrates, and calcium channel

blockers are not effective. The

procedure to diagnose and to

treat this condition is called

ERCP. In this medical

procedure, a flexible

endoscopic tube is gently

inserted down the esophagus,

through the stomach and into

the small intestine. A small

plastic tube from an opening in

the end of the scope, is then

placed in the Sphincter of

Oddi and a solution is injected

into the duct to measure the

pressure (billiary manometry).

If the pressure in this sphincter

is high (above 40 mmHg)

and/or "gallstones" are found

in the duct, a surgical

procedure sphincterotomy

(cutting into the sphincter)

to allow fluid and stones to

flow out may be made. Stones

can sometimes just be

scooped out. However, ERCP

sphincterotomy surgery can

have acute and long term

effects. In women who do not

have stones in the common

bile duct or high pressure, the

surgery is less likely to be

effective in reducing pain and

spasms. From 20 to 40 percent

of women who do not have

bile stones, but have biliary

pain symptoms, have acute

pancreatitis following the

cutting of the sphincter; up to

20% can have pancreatitis just

from the procedure. There can

be long term effects also. The

common bile duct may become

chronically inflamed due to

reflux of small intestinal fluid

into the duct. From 14-36

percent may have some long

term complications which may

result in chronic pain. If the

common bile duct becomes

plugged with stones or if the

sphincter does not open to

release the bile and pancreatic

enzymes into the small intestine,

serious medical problems can

result. This includes jaundice

from the back up of bile and

pancreatitis from the back up

of pancreatic enzymes. When

this happens emergency ERCP

or other surgery often needs to

be done. What are the types of

this dysfunction? Based on

biliary manometry the

dysfunction has been classified

into three types. Type I and

Type II have a combination of

high pressure in the common

bile duct, abnormal liver and/or

pancreatic function tests,

stones or "sludge" in the duct,

recurring pancretitis, or other

physical and chemical changes

along with pain. Type I has high

pressure and many of these

other problems; Type II has

several of these problems. Type

III typically has pain only,

without any of the other

problems. ERCP is most

generally effective when the

pressure in the duct is high.

ERCP is generally not very

effective for Type III, so learning

to manage it and knowing what

triggers it is important. If I

change my lifestyle can I

reduce these spasms and pain?

If ERCP and possible surgery

have been suggested and it is

considered elective, and not

emergency, there are some life

style changes that may help to

reduce and control the pain,

burning, and spasms from this

syndrome. Surgery should not

be rushed into until all else

fails. Please remember,

however, you first need to go

to a physician to determine the

cause of these symptoms. The

following lifestyle changes may

be helpful in reducing the

symptoms. Keep in mind that

there are only limited

references for some of the

dietary remedies in the

medical literature related to

this syndrome. Reducing fat in

the diet and other dietary

changes Some research

suggests that a diet high in fat

and/or cholesterol may result in

the formation of "gallstones" in

the gallbladder or common bile

duct. Measures to reduce

diatary fat, triglycerides, and

total cholesterol levels may be

helpful in preventing stone

formation. Several methods to

accomplish this follow: Drink a

tablespoon of bran mixed with

a teaspoon of psyllium in a

glass of water or juice upon

arising (This mixture may help

to absorb bile and prevent

cholesterol and triglycerides

from being re-absorbed back

into the body thus lowering the

cholesterol level). Eat a very

low fat diet such as the Dean

Ornish diet. This is primarily

a vegitarian diet that has been

successful in reversing heart

disease Eat and cook with

foods that contain very little

fat and eliminate fatty foods

from the diet. Enjoy no-fat

sour cream, yogurt, cream and

cottage cheese, milk, "egg

beaters," or soy products.

Eliminate all visible fat

including butter, table spreads,

etc. Eliminate chocolate,

peanut butter, nuts, etc. To

obtain some fat-soluble

vitamins in the diet take 200

units vitamin E, an omega-3 fish

oil capsule, and in cooking use a

small amount of olive or canola

oil Trim the skin and fat off of

all poultry and meat. Drink

plenty of fluids Some research

suggests that drinking lots of

fluids may help dilute the bile

and prevent the formation of

stones Drink at least 8 glasses of

fluid a day Drink a half glass of

soda-water (club soda) three

times a day (a few research

reports show this may be

helpful in preventing stone

formation)Drink one or two

cups of green tea (acts as an

antioxident) or herbal tea or

aloe vera (may sooth the GI

tract). Foods and Drinks to

Avoid Experience will often

show what foods need to be

avoided to help prevent

attacks. Experiment with

different fruits and vegtables.

There are some general rules

of foods to eliminate from the

diet because they contain a

high amount fat or because

they may cause irritation

resulting in the contraction of

the sphicnter or duct. Avoid

spicy foods, onions, garlic and

cucumbers. Avoid red wine,

other alcoholic beverages,

coffee, strong black tea and

soda pop with caffeine. Avoid

very cold drinks and foods. Lots

of ice water, juice, soda pop and

ice cream can sometimes cause

spasms. Foods to eat Eat a well

balanced diet containing the

following Four(4) servings of

fruits (apples and pears may be

less likely to cause problems

than some other fruits) Four

(4) servings of vegies (have

yellow and green at least once

a day) Four (4) servings of

protein (no-fat dairy, poultry,

fish, meat or legumes) Eight (8)

servings of grains (cereal, rice,

bread, etc.)Eat small meals. The

first meal of the day sometimes

does not cause as many

problems as meals eaten later

in the day. Experiment and

adjust your eating schedule to

produce the least amount of

symptoms. Some people have

found that oatmeal relieves

their symptoms. Reduce stress

in your life Engage in pleasant

pastimes and activities. After

work, or a stressful day, do

someting nice for yourself or

something you find relaxing

and fun. Stay out of stressful

situations. If you are involved

in family, job, or other

situations that are causing you

stress try to see how you can

minimize them (leaving the

house to take a walk) Do self

hypnosis, meditation, prayer,

and stress reduction

techniques (these are found

back on "Hints" home page).

Go on a retreat at a religious

community Do an evaluation

of your work and family

situation. Determine what

changes to get your life in

balance. Remember good

health is a balance of social,

mental, physical, spiritual,

recreational and vocational

aspects of life. Physical

Exercise Get some exercise

every day. Even walking briskly

about ten minutes three times

a day can be helpful to overall

health. Attempt to spend a half

hour a day for at least three

days a week in some form of

physical activity. Lose weight if

overweight. Exercise can help

you with this and also curb

your appetite. Find a

supportive physician Find a

physician that will spend time

to be supportive, will

encourage lifestyle change

efforts and is accepting of

diatary and alternative health

prevention regimens. Discuss

with your health care provider

the possibility of massage

therapy or accupuncture Take

the medication prescribed by

physician Anti-spasmotics,

nitrates and calcium channel

blokers may help with the pain

as an adjunct to changing diet,

stress reduction and exercise.

Biliary Dyskinesia & Sphincter

of Oddi Dysfunction

Information about the Types

of billary dysfunctions Medical

University of South Carolina

information about Sphincter of

Oddi Information about MRCP

for diagnosis Information

about ERCP for diagnosis and

treatment MRCP vs ERCP IU

Medical School Medical

Information from the Am. Soc.

Gast. Endoscopy Other GI

Functional Disorders

Abdominal Pain Med Help

International

Thank you for your discussion I am glad to know I am not alone in this .... I replied to  another person in this thread about diet changes and more detail about my processes... My reply to her is....

"Thank you brenda50140914,

I have been a vegetarian for 40 years and had my GB out  almost 30 years ago and still have this pain. But over the many years doing colon treatments and the such has helped to some degree.

I know that when they remove the GB they have to attach the duct somewhere it gets attached to the colon and the same similar place as we feel the pain.... under right lower rib on top of the Liver. They did an ultrasound on me to find that I have a Fatty Liver not the kind attached to alcohol, but Non-Alcohol Fatty Liver.... So this is what I notice almost everytime I have Gas or possibly a stool passing by that area it hurts really bad like being stabbed, after massageing the area - I pass gas or use the bathroom #2 and it subsides. There is a dull ache there all the time, but Drs don't seem to be concerned about it. Also when I get a massage - she works deeply there -- similar to the tennis Ball but I think that technique would be too painful to lay on it. I know my diet is headed to a more Vegan style and that seems to help -- also taking digestive enzymes or Apple Cider Vinegar (ACV with the "Mother" [wink] helps with digesting fats (some eggs and some cheeses) when I do have them. Warm moist compresses help as well. Oh and I do get that little nerve flutter like someone else had mentioned -- I think it is Nerve sensations, massage and slight pressure seems to settle it down. I hope this helps someone. Thanks to all for your input.

I had my gallbladder stone remove over 15 years ago ,but I'm having real bad pain in my gallbladder

If you had your Gallbladder removed you most likely are developing Hiatal Hernia, I had a gastric sleeve two months ago and as part of the medical studies the Bariatric Surgeon discover the hernia wich was repaired. During the surgery done due to being moderate overweight and sleep apnea patient he also discovered I had fatty liver. The pain is the hernia and only with a stomach X rays test where you drink a heavy white slushy liquid right before, is how your doctor is going to know and discover the hernia that no Doctor ever found with regular X Rays and Sonograms. For now, drink Perrier and Fiber and you will feel a lot better.

I've complained about my experience after gallbladder removal surgery a lot so I wanted to give an updated in the hopes that it might help others. After surgery I had weight gain , bloated stomach like I was 7 mos pregnant , pain around the same area and no one seemed to listen to me. That is, until I ended up in the ER ! Turns out that it was my appendix and I had surgery that morning. In fact, it sounds as though my appendix was in worse shape than my gallbladder. The surgeon said that the scar tissue connected to everything on my insides made the surgery pretty difficult and from what the ER doc said and my primary dr who read my path report to me later, my appendix was turned upside down which caused the pain to radiate upward . I had surgery a week ago and I just weighed today. I've lost five pounds. I'm hoping this was the reason I still felt so bad and gained 12 pounds. It was strange that I gained 10 lbs and no more. I thought that I stopped gaining bc I was literally starving myself but that didn't explain why I couldn't lose a lb either. Anyway, I'm feeling a lot better and just wanted to share . Fingers crossed that I lose the other five. 

I just want to throw this out there for you all to read into. After much research this seems very likly. choledocolithiasis

hi i have same pain and was going 4 times a day after removal, (cat sh*t) took those anti acid tablets reduced me to two times a day on ave now felt better in myself but no diff in pain level, but i have tried yuplait ? sourmilk you buy insuper market for good stomach bacteria has helped a bit in bowel part but not the pain.

 

I posted on here probably about a year ago and wanted to update....I've had the same experience as many of you. Gallbladder removed in 2015, was fine for about 6 months then the "phantom pain" came back in FULL force. Just as bad or worse than the gallbladder attacks I would have. 

I went to multiple different GI Doctors, had an endoscopy, bloodwork, trigger point injections and even went to see a holistic Dr! I saw a slight relief from the trigger point injections but nothing that lasted. I also tried rolling around on a soft medicine ball to break up any scar tissue in case that was causing my pain. FINALLY in February of this year I went to see a GI Dr who literally gave me my life back. There were days (many days) when my pain was at a level 10! It was unbearable!! I know many of you feel/have felt that way. 

The Dr I saw said I'm having muscle spasms! I was shocked to hear that's what he thought my pain was because it didn't seem to fit. I've had muscle spasms in my feet and legs before but they only last a matter of seconds! I was in intense pain every single day for 8 months! He gave me a prescription for Doxepin and while it took about 3 months to get the dosage/frequency right I feel ALMOST 100% better!!! My pain went from excruciating, to a constant dull ache, to barely even there! I still have certain days where I feel a little bit of tightness but its nothing compared to the pain I used to be in. I feel the best I have felt in a long time. I pray that this will resonate with many of you and I hope this easy cure will be the solution for you!