Gallbladder is gone so where is this pain from?

Hi april4chris

Your experience sounds horrendous. Do you know what complications occurred? Have you been in touch with the Surgeon?

You need to work on what is going on symptom wise, while the medical profession work on the physical aspect.... but PLEASE CHECK WITH YOUR DOCTOR BEFORE MAKING ANY CHANGES TO DIET AND LIFESTYLE. If you follow any opinions here that I give - I cannot be held responsible for anything occurring. PLEASE SEE YOUR DOCTOR!

My first advice is if you have pain - you need to start letting your body relax. Pain locks us up. This can make pain worse. Take time out for you. Hot baths, or chill time in bed, or on the sofa. Really try and unwind. Try and do this for an hour, daily where possible. It will also help your mind that will undoubtedly be clouded with darkness right now, as your op was meant to be your release from pain.

The pain is something you need prescription painkillers for - see your Doctor for assistance with that, and keep going back, and back, and back, until you get something that helps. BUT - don't let it lie, with just pain meds. You need expert help. By going back repeatedly, you are pointing out something is wrong. You don't want the painkillers to mask the problem - just make the pain bearable, until you get it sorted. That part is very very very important! Do not be tempted to mask the pain completely. The idea here is that the painkillers are a temporary patch, until they find the answer, not a lifelong dependency!

If you have a runny tummy - it could be that your liver is bile dumping into your guts - or you could have a gut disorder such as IBS - or there could be something else. This needs proper investigation. STAY POSITIVE! You need to be very pro-active in getting yourself help. Be wary where you get that help from - ie, quack websites. You could need Bile Salts - there are a couple different types. The Doctor will not hand them out easy - and see this as a part of the possibilities of aid. Don't mention them to the Doctor just yet. You want to get them investigating what is happening - not just a fob you off with pills and potions. There is a reason you have pain and other symptoms, and that needs dealing with now...which you recognise or your wouldn't have posted here.

Monitor your temperature in relation to pain levels. Keep a record of this several times a day, and give that to the Doctor, in case of infection developing.Also - check whether your pain is hormone related - if you are female. See if there is a pattern with menstrual cycles. My pain level is manageable as mine is definitely connected. This is because of a main trunk of nerves that are connected - but before every cycle, I am aware of this, do extra gentle stretches, and exercise, and take pain meds more readily, as needed, during this time. I am pain free now for a lot of the time.

Buy over the counter Buscopan, and Colpermin. The first is an IBS med and this is anti spasmodic, but will stop other areas of your body spasming too. They are often give for gallstone attacks now, because the gallbladder goes into spasm in an attack. The Colpermin is Peppermint Oil it will soothe your guts - and sounds like you need all the help you can get with that. If you find no relief with Buscopan (these are VERY powerful, ridiculously tiny pills - but only take one at a time, don't be tempted to take more in spite of their size, unless otherwise advised -there is a reason for this!) - swap them out for Colofac. The reason for swapping onto another drug is that they are processed in different parts of the body. You need to figure out what works - if any - for you. This is a trial thing only - just to get you over the hump in between Doctor Appointments. You need to take these pills RELIGIOUSLY for about 2 week, before swapping out the Buscopan for Colofac. You need this stuff to penetrate your cells, so patience is a must. If you find they help - after the first packet - go back to your GP and tell them, and get them on prescription.

Drink Peppermint Tea, and/or Camomile Tea - to soothe your guts too, if you can bare it.

Contact your Surgeon directly. Explain the situation. You could have a bile leak, or you could have an infection in there, or something else that needs addressing. He did the job - he's the expert - you NEED his thoughts - you NEED his investigations. The Doctor can only do so much. These ops are not a one stop shop - you need that contact, so keep pestering until you get that callback from the Surgeon, and get action. Be a pest!

You didn't say when in Dec you had the op? It's only been a few weeks, I'm guessing - so now is the time to act.

Go back to a low/no fat diet. Bulk up the fibre in your diet hugely, to help absorb the bile dumping. You should be having a portion of fibre about 15 - 20 mins before every meal. You can also add Flaxseed powder (from the health food shops) into meals. But if you start getting constipation, lower the level of fibre in your guts. This is all trial and error at this stage - and at the moment should be viewed as temporary. You can also take Potters Slippery Elm Bark Tablets. These are available from high street health food shops, or online, and have a high fibre content. I take them myself every day. They are expensive sadly - but to me, I work it into my budget because I need them in my diet. Oh yes - and they taste weird, but you get used to it quickly. LOL.

For nausea - take Ginger Root Capsules. If you like Ginger anyway - add it into your diet where ever possible - but don't eat it raw from the root as it can cause burns. Tell your Doctor you are taking Ginger Root.

You can see if a pill like Gavilast helps too. This cuts down acid produced. This could help your guts and liver, in the interim to the cause being found.

Keep a record of all meds taken and when. It's important to do this so when you get to be investigated you can say - "I started a week ago XYZ and it hasn't helped - now what?". Let your Doctor and your Surgeon know what you are taking.

Drink a glass of fresh (not from concentrate) Apple Juice a day. Be aware - this contains A LOT of natural sugars - so if you are Diabetic, or on a sugar or calorie controlled diet - you will need to take that into account.

Get rid of Caffiene (cut back slowly if you consume it every day!). Get rid of fizzy drinks of any type - they can irritate the guts. And cut back or get rid of artificial sweeteners, Palm Oil, and try and have a natural diet as possible. Avoid Spicy foods at the moment.

I wish I knew the right answers for everyone - I don't. I can only tell you what I've learned, and what worked for me and others. In your case, I believe there is something more happening, hence needing further investigation - even if that is turning up frequently at your A&E and demanding help and investigation.

Many long-term sufferers are worn down by pain and the highs of expectations versus reality. They don't put up a fight with Doctors and Medics because it is hard work to fight, and tiring work. There are things that can be done for you before you hit the end of the line. But you also need to be pro-active in getting yourself to a better place. The medical department want you better, to stop using resources on you - so a lot of people settle early for pain meds, and live with symptoms that could be made better, or handled better. Keep fighting - or get a friend to help fight with you. Don 't settle for being given pills at this stage.

I can't promise a cure - I can only guess at an achievable improvement - but you personally have to try and work with what is now, not what you wanted or expected instantly. That way you don't get stuck in a downward spiral of letting this Surgery define what you become in the future. It's not the good news you wanted, I know - but it's a start in the right direction. There is a chance that you will always have some issues - but there is also a chance the cause will be found and sorted out - it's important to realise this.

Gallbladder surgery IS major surgery - and you almost need to re-teach your body how to deal with the loss of an organ. If you had a outer limb removed, nobody turns to you the next day and says "ok, you're fixed, off you go". You get pain monitoring, and physio, and counseling, etc. and if you still get pain - then because its a visible thing usually - you get more help. So be prepared to keep fighting positively, and if one doctor won't help - get 2nd, 3rd or 4th opinions. I hear a lot of cases where people get out of hospital and eat chips and fry ups straight away, then get pain and issues. I never understand why surgeons don't explain that you simply can't do this. You need to baby step your body into handling this stuff all over again - like if you had a leg removed, noone says 'get up and walk' the next day. Re-education is vital in getting your body to heal and adapt.

Do not settle for pain at this level, or at this stage. Understand and accept that you will get frustrated with the apparent slowness of the situation, and tests, but that you will get there. If you are left weeks without updates - call... go back to Doctors and be seen and be heard to want help

The final thing to remember is - that people with problems will always shout louder than those without. The horror stories on the web, are unfortunate, but compared to the millions of success stories out there, they are a drop in the ocean....even if they had big issues in the road to recovery. Remember to post back, with positive outcomes too, updates, and things that worked for you.

And don't forget - ALWAYS seek medical advice before trying anything new! Always check that any new medications of food, will not interfere with existing medication - a Pharmacist should also be used as a 2nd check for this, as Doctor's may not know the answers as they don't handle pills like a Pharmacist does.

I wish you luck in your recovery, and a speedy improvement.

Now get chasing that Surgeon! :o)

Take care

Jinny

I just wanted to pass on that I was having similar post-op pain and happened across a study that found that magnesium supplements were helpful in getting rid of the pain. I tried taking a calcium + magnesium supplement and found it to be very effective in eliminating my pain.

The pain that you feel in your shoulder blades or in the middle of them is from gas pushing on your diaphragm. Before I had my gallbladder out the pain was so intense,especially between my shoulder blades.The only relief I got was to lay down in a very warm bath.once again the culprit is gas.It has only been a week since my surgery. I have allot of gas and bloating and acid indigestion but it is so much better than the agony that I was in before. Now after reading some of the stories on here I am wondering how hard and how long it will be to get back to normal.Any way heat will help your muscles to relax which will allow them to let go of the gas which will help the pain.I hope this helps.

I had my gall bladder removed 28 years ago. But still have a pain in the area of my R/H rib cage. After the operation two drain tubes protruded from my side. When pulled out one snagged and it took the nurse a second big pull to remove it. The pain caused me to yell out. The pain settled after a few days and when telling the doctor about it he said it was a spasm as a result of the rib cage being opened during the op. Later when the pain continued my doctor said it was possible scar tissue, and trying to resolve the issue, it was sometimes better to bear a bit of pain.....originally the pain occurred at night when lying flat. The cure was to roll over on my side. However over the years it has got gradually worse to the extent that the pain is continual irrespective of standing or lying. The pain is something what I think a broken rib would feel like. Recently the pain clinic has suggested a tens machine trial or failing that an injection in the back to kill the nerves leading to the area of pain. Progressing..... I would be interested to hear from anyone with similar history or have had the nerves "killed"

Also has anyone used a bile substitute as part of a diet?

Hi everyone. I had my Gallbladder taken out on Jan 11. 2014. Recovery went pretty smoothly. By week 2 I was up and around. Just started back to work yesterday (I work in a kitchen making sandwiches. Stand for long periods of time) Yesterday was tricky. Worked 8 hours, light work. No pulling or lifting. As the day progressed, experienced pain in my right shoulder blade. Wasn't too bad.

Today was awful! Right shoulder blade pain was intense. Only lasted 5 hours and went straight to my gp. He told me it was inflammation, and put me on Neproxen for 6 days, twice a day. I pray it goes away, because I can barely work with that pain.

Anyone ever told the pain was caused by inflammation??

Cheers

Dawn

Hi Everyone

it is not a phantom GB pain or physcosomatic pain, it is more than likely something called sphincter of oddi

dysfunction. It is a muscle that spasms when it should'nt and stops bile juices from being released for digestion.A lot of drs will make you think it is physcosomatic as there is no specific treatment or meds for it. Took me 3 years to finally get diagnosis.

Hi Everone

it sounds like a condition called sphincter of oddi dysfunction that some of you are describing.It is a chronic condition varying in symptoms tha main one being RUQ pain and very similar to GB pain.I have type 3 which is the hardest to diagnose as it does not show on scans etc.

HI!

I am so sorry that so many are having problems after gall bladder surgery, but I'm also glad to hear that this pain is not in my head and I'm not just a whiner! I already had Osteoarthritis (every joint) and Fibromyalgia so intense I had to leave my work. Gall bladder was removed in October 2011 after an acute pain episode that lasted 12 hours (hubby came home and found out how long it had been going on and insisted that I go to emergency) The acute pain was better after surgery but the dull aching pain that I had lived with for so long never stopped.

My pain levels are high because of the arthritis and fibro anyway, so I tend to ignore as much as I can for as long as I can because I know I am in for muscle and skeletal pain for the rest of my life and it just seemed like I was always complaining. I did call my surgeon a few months after the surgery and was told that pain that long after was not related to the GB surgery and to see my family doctor.

I tried to tough it out and by the time I was ready to schedule an appointment we had a flood that destroyed half the house, 2 sick parents who were hospitalized for months and my father passed away. During all that chaos and confusion the pain went from being a "cramp" under my rib cage to an intense pain that runs from between my shoulders, down under my shoulder blade, around the lower back side of my rib cage and up to my sternum. There are times that the pain seems to connect from my sternum through to my spine.

This dull ache has turned into a monster that is running my life. I was already in a mess pain wise, now the little quality of life that I had is gone. The only relief I get is lying flat on the bed with knees pulled up, but I am never completely pain free in that area. I'm lucky if I get dinner made AND get to eat with my family....dishes always have to wait till next morning because I can't tolerate the pain any longer.

After reading these posts I've decided to resume my fight for answers. I'm old, but not old enough to be THIS debilitated!

I started doing light yoga stretches for my arthritis and fibromyalgia....there was one stretch that I found really helped the pain in my upper back and shoulders. I get really tense because of the pain in my right rib cage which only aggravates the whole situation.

Thanks so much for sharing your stories, it doesn't help my pain level but it has helped my opinion of the situation......and mental attitude is a huge part of surviving chronic pain.

BeBe

Emis Moderator comment: I have removed the YouTube link, if anyone does want the link please use the message service to ask for it.

HI Bebe

It does sound like sphincter of oddi dysfunction you have got.The medical profession are not very good at dealing with it so they like to make us think it is in our heads, but it is not. It is like you said a monster of a pain and unfortunately as with all digestive disorders, stress makes it worse.

Hi Marketa and Fraser

There is a condition called sphincter of oddi dysfunction which is almost like gallbladder pain.it sounds like this what you might have .some people get it after gallbladder removal or as in my case when a suspected gallstone passed through.A lot of doctors wont accept this condition and try and make you think its psychological, but it isnt it is a genuine condition.If you google it you will find lots of info on it.

I had my gallbladder removed in October, 2013 and of course had the problem with dirrhear for some time but that has gotten better. but in the last month or so I am having some burning pain in the area where they removed my gallbladder under my right ribs. Sometimes it gets to be a pretty sharp pain and other times it is just a nagging, burning pain. what is causing this? It happens whether I eat or not and

just any time. can't figure this out and don't know why I would be having this problem. does anyone else have this same nagging pain and burning?

Hi Brenda

This sounds like a condition called sphincter of oddi dysfunction, it can happen after gall bladder removal or as in my case if a stone has passed through.If you google it there is lots of info about it.