Gleason Score (4+3=7). Any hope?
Posted , 10 users are following.
Hi All,
1.5 months ago, my dad had TURP surgery for his prostate; otherwise known as BPH. Following his surgery, the doctor advised that they would contact us to schedule a follow-up apppointment once they got my dad's results back from the lab/the biopsy.
So, a couple of weeks ago we attended the doctor's office only to be told that they found a small tumour in his prostate, and that he had a Gleason score of (4+3=7). They did not want to conduct a PSA test during this visit because his numbers would be through the roof, considering he just had prostate surgery. My dad will be receiving his PSA test results just before Christmas.
Additionally, my dad just had a hemorrhoidectomy last Tuesday and is currently in recovery mode. To be honest, I've wondered if this large hemorrhoids could be a symptom of my dad's prostate cancer. But I have no clue!
My dad is pretty down, considering his recent diagnosis, and is scared of his PSA test results and what he might have to do if the numbers are high. At this point, we don't know the level of aggressiveness with respect to this tumour, or if it's spread, and the doctor advised that there are plenty of men, who, once they reach a certain age, have prostate cancer, and don't even realize they have it! Apparently they pass away without even knowing they had prostate cancer and pass away from something other than their prostate cancer.
The doctor already forewarned us that one treatment option is injections, and my dad has told me that if he needs injection, it will ruin him. I'm concerned about my dad's (and family's) mental state, but I'm trying to prepare myself for whatever happens when we attend the doctor's office mid-December to get his test results.
I'm not sure why I'm posting about this specifically. But I think I'm looking for some words of encouragement and hope, more than anything.
Thank you all in advance! 😃
0 likes, 36 replies
tom86211 Francesca008
Posted
Gleason 7 can be treated and in almost all cases with complete success. Prostate can be removed or radiated. Removal is most common and also ends BPH symptoms as well. Radiation is also an option, but can lead to some side effects. Also, with radiation the prostate is still in place, so the cancer may be gone, but the BPH symptoms can be very irritating - this is what happened to me. If the prostate is removed and the cancer returns, then radiation is an option. If you get radiation first, removal is more difficult later on.
Of course, he could do nothing and wait, but that can be emotionally stressful. Don't worry about the PSA number - he already knows he has a tumor, and the Gleason grade and extent of the tumor or tumors is what is important. He can also get a 3T MRI and likely a 12 core biopsy - not fun, but tells you a lot about what is going on. I had radiation in 2014 and BPH symptoms ever since.
Francesca008 tom86211
Posted
Hi Tom86211,
Thank you so much for your reply! I really appreciate the input.
I think what got me somewhat riled up was my brief research regarding the 7 Gleason score. Apparently a 7 on the Gleason scale can mean two different things - either it's a 7 (3+4 = meaning, less aggressive and more treatable), or a 7 (4+3 - meaning more aggressive and prone to spread). I've read that there's a signficant difference between the two, despite them both being scores of 7. Who knew...
Can I ask what your Gleason score was? And were you given the option of injections over radiation? How are you doing now and how is your prostate cancer (hopefully non-existent!)? Did you consider removal of your prostate?
tom86211 Francesca008
Posted
Francesca,
My Gleason score was 6. Some do not consider this cancer. But after my first biopsy I had a second biopsy 18 months later, and there was "progression", so I decided to have treatment. Knowing that some amount of cancer was growing my me was a constant source of anxiety, that went away after I decided to move forward with treatment.
There are two options when treating PCa - the most common is removal with robotic surgery - about 90% of men have this done. The second treatment is radiation, either external beam, or brachytherapy, or proton beam. I had brachytherapy, but not the seeds. I had two HD Brachytherapy sessions. Both the external beam and protein beam treatments require about 40 sessions. I had two sessions spaced two weeks apart. Very easy.
This was done in 2014. My PSA is now 0.2. Recently I had a TURP and the tissue samples came back with no cancer, so from what I can tell, the cancer is gone.
In 2014 my insurance didn't cover a new genetic test for aggressiveness of the cancer - Oncotype DX. If I had gone for that test it would have given me more information about the aggressiveness of the cancer.
In retrospect, I wish I had gone for the removal because after the radiation I had prostate swelling and 6 weeks of total retention, requiring Foley catheters and some self cath. Then, for the past 5 years I have had constant BPH issues, then finally in April of this year I had a bipolar TURP and am doing much better. If I had gone for the removal, no prostate, no BPH. However, and there is always a however, I might have been one of the small percentage of men who have permanent incontinence after RRP. I will never know.
Best of luck,
Tom
Francesca008 tom86211
Posted
Thank you for sharing, tom86211.
I have at least a few weeks before we go into the doctor's office and obtain my dad's PSA test results, so thankfully I have time to do research regarding treatments, side effects, etc.
Wishing you the best on your wellness journey and I'm glad to hear you're now cancer free.
david41094 Francesca008
Posted
Of course there is hope! There is every probability that PCa will not play a further part in your dad's life. I had 4+4 5 years ago and after radiation and hormone therapy my PSA is still 0.2 and I don't much worry about it any more. 4+3 is only moderate risk. I would advise you that autopsies reveal that men in their 50s have a 50% chance of PCa, men in their 60s a 60% chance etc so all that happens in most cases is that you have a positive confirmation of what was there already. Strangely, it's the knowing that makes people worry. All the best for your dad.
Francesca008 david41094
Posted
Thank you for your reply, david41094!
I think my research on a Gleason 7 has gotten me worried, due to the fact that a 7 can mean two different things on the Gleason Scale, depending on whether it's a 3+4 (non-aggressive, treatable and less likely to spread), whereas 4+3 (which is what my dad has) is much more aggressive and likely to spread. I've read so much about how to interpret 7 on the Gleason Scale that it's perhaps sent me into a tailspin.
I just want to be informed.
Thankfully, my research guided me here to this forum which has been so helpful. Everyone here is so helpful, really! I find reading about everyone's experiences here help me put things into perspective.
Grateful for the positive feedback. Thanks again.
BigTeddyEdward Francesca008
Posted
Doesn't sound that serious otherwise they would have had him back sooner. They may do a rectal scan and the range of treatments now are nothing compared to 23 years ago when I had a TURP then a full Radical Prostatectomy as they found traces of the Big C. Mine came back 6 years after the op so I had to go for 37 visits of RT. That was in 2002. I am still here 23 years on. Great advances have been made in the treatment so look on the bright side. The injections are nothing to worry about.
Francesca008 BigTeddyEdward
Posted
Thank you, BigTeddyEdward!
You're right. I've read about signficant improvements in how prostate cancer is being treated these days, even since 2012, apparently!
Appreciate you sharing your story. It makes me feel better about my dad's circumstances.
It's difficult to watch people that we care about and love go through something like this. I feel so helpless at times and as if there's nothing I can do to make things better. It's completely out of my hands. All I can do is stay positive and encourage my family to do the same.
Francesca008
Posted
Also, I'd like to think that if it were serious, they'd be acting sooner as well. However, before they diagnosed my dad with BPH, and advised that he needed TURP surgery, the surgeon also immediately advised my dad that he did NOT have cancer. Therefore, I'm a bit skeptical about this doctor and what he's telling us; especially since going in for my dad's follow-up appointment and being informed by the same doctor that it IS in fact cancer.
I question everything he says now and wonder if they are in fact acting as quickly as they should.
dennis63948 Francesca008
Posted
Please do not worry about the 4+3 grade 7. It is a moderate grade and will need something done. I had exactly the same reading about a year and a half ago. The options are radiation and surgery. Brachytherapy, small "seeds" with radioactive content which are injected into the Prostate. Also the latest treatment, but not on NHS yet for Prostate, is Proton Therapy. I was fortunate to be able to get this in the UK, done by Rutherford Cancer Care, and it is easy, painless and safer as radiation is only released where the tumour is. Normal radiation can have side effects to other tissue.
A year after my treatment my recent PSA reading was last 0.15, so very low. It looks like cancer has gone and I had no side effects.
The downside of Proton therapy is that it costs!
Wish your father good luck and being positive is most important.
Francesca008 dennis63948
Posted
Thank you for your input, dennis63948!
I'm glad to hear that you're cancer free and that you experienced no side effects following treatment.
I seem to be the only one here (in my family) researching the various forms of treatment because I want to be informed when we meet with the doctor in December. My dad is simplifying things a bit too much by saying, "Well, I'll either need injections or to have my prostate removed. Simple!". I don't think it's quite that simple. I want to understand the various forms of treatment and more than anything, the level of success and side effects.
I wish you the best on your cancer-free journey!
eric1962 Francesca008
Posted
You are proceeding with reason and that is good.
Gleason 7 will not cause problems in the short term and checking the PSA again later is a good idea.
If the pathology reports shows only a few mm of tumor or only a few % of the core being positive, the amount of cancer is likely small and slow growing.
At some point, your dad will need an MRI and/or a 12 core or MRI-directed biopsy to determine extent of cancer and aggressiveness but there is no big hurry here.
Francesca008 eric1962
Posted
Thank you for chiming in, eric1962!
I guess I'm having a difficult time accepting that's small and slow growing because of my dad's Gleason score 7 (4+3). If the 7 score was based on a 3+4, I'd be less concerned, but I've read about the significant difference in the two scores - with one being much less aggressive than the other. And unfortunately, it seems that my dad has the more aggressive form/score.
Fortunately, my dad is extremely strong, so this will help moving forward.
Staying positive seems to be the more challenging hurdle right now.
charles61038 Francesca008
Posted
This is a scary diagnosis when you are first told about it. The main thing is not to panic. There are many good treatment options available for your situation. What you need to do is to research the options along with the possible side affects. Your dad's prostate cancer is treatable and he can live a long happy life. It sounds like you don't trust his doctor too much, so it might be a good idea to check out a second doctor... maybe get advice from his primary care physician. I was diagnoses with PC just over 3 years ago. I had the 12 core biopsy - that showed 2 of the samples with cancer cells. 2 % in one, 10% in the other. I have a very good urologist/oncologist who told me about several treatment options including the wait and see, or what he referred to as watchful waiting. You just get checked regularly every few months. I didn't like knowing I had the cancer and it could progress ... and that I could do something about it and be done with it. I had a non aggressive type cancer that was slow growing. So that was on my side. My doctor directed me to a couple of websites that discussed various treatment options with success rates and side affects. I didn't especially like the removal option with surgery. I looked at forms of radiation treatments - the main one was one that was 36 sessions. One 15 minute session a day 5 days a week. There was one I checked out called Cyberknife. That was a high dose radiation treatment, but only 5 treatments. Each session was about 45 minutes. From what I read, you had to drink a large amount of water before each session to fill the bladder. That would cause the bladder to stay further away from the radiation so it would help prevent damage to it. Another option that I looked at was the Brachytherapy. Low dose radiation seed implants. The low dose helped reduce the chances of damage to the colon and bladder. This was a one time treatment done as an outpatient procedure. After meeting with another oncologist at the START Center, I decided on the Brachytherapy. The doctor I met with took the time to go over each option with me in detail. He told me about the pros and cons of each. The Brachytherapy seemed like the best option for me. I was put on a couple of medications about 2 weeks before the procedure... Tamsulosin, and Dutasteride. One was to shrink the prostate a bit, and the other was to help with urination. The radiation would irritate the urethra, so the medication would help with that. I had the procedure done and was released after about an hour in recovery. There is some urgency with urination for a few weeks after, but it gets better. My PSA at last check was .09. That was at the 3 year mark last August. I will go for another check in February. The doctor said that after that, I can probably see him once a year. I have been going every 6 months for a check. All has been fine. No infections, no incontinence, no E.D.
Do your research - and make sure your doctor has performed that procedure successfully many times.
Wishing you and your dad the best.
Francesca008 charles61038
Posted
Hi charles61038,
Thank you for sharing this information and your personal experience!
I'm finding everyone's feedback here quite helpful.
I'm doing as much research as possible, and am considering reading a book called 'The Guide to Surviving Prostate Cancer' by Patrick Walsh, which I've noticed is referred to as the bible when it comes to prostate cancer.
I'm glad to hear your treatment was successful and that you're doing well. Wishing you continued success following your treatment!