Grade 2 rectocele and surprise enterocele op in one week

That's great. I hated the catheter, couldnt stand the feeling. I have been told that you shouldn't grrl it.x

Hi so pleased to hear that you are now post op yay and on the mend take care and rest rest rest. xxxx

Oh no Mossup you really have had a bad week.  I'm glad your starting to feel a little better.

Fingers crossed your home and making your recovery very soon, glad to hear despite everything else things look like they are in the right place x

Oh my goodness chick what a journey you have been on, little like me you ended up with more than you bargained for. Thank goodness you were still in hospital when things played up. Please can you keep us updated. Now comes the part that you have to really take it easy to give yourself time to heal, all rest and no play!! no house work and very possibly a sore bottom from all the sitting on it you are going to be doing. take care lovely xxx regards Kath 

Oh no poor you, thinking of you and sending positive thoughts x

Thanks Emma how are you?  I m feeling like a different person from this morning the pain has reduced so much. Really focus sing on getting home xx

I'm doing really well I'm allowed to drive now I'm 9 weeks post op and not allowed to do anything till seen on Feb 23rd. I've become quite concerned that being able to actually have sex is going to be a nightmare as the surgeon has really had a good tidy up but I look like I have a 5p size gap 😳

Glad your feeling a little better and will keep everything crossed that you get home. Make sure you rest properly x

Have you had any physiotherapy to help strengthen your pelvic floor?  I think it is very normal to be anxious about sex, lots of foreplay, lubrication and time

feeling a little frustrated today, I think because of the language barrier and I think my expectations I have found out that they did not repair the lower part of my rectocele so all the problems of opening my bowels and incomplete emptying grhhh 

he says that my muscles in the entrance are so strong? That he does not feel surgery will help?!  Discussed my sphincter but I know that is not my issue as I am able to relax this I am not sure I would have had the surgery if I had properly understood only the upper part would be fixed.  This part was only painful if I had sex which rarely happens due to the discomfort at the entrance of my vagina...sorry big vent!

The chief-artz is now coming to review and consider tif they feel there are any possible options.

Really sad when you have to spell it out that what you really want is to poo like a normal person and that sex is a bonus lol...

Oh no I totally understand why you need to talk about it.  Sounds rubbish I hope they can help you as it seems a little silly to put you through an operation that hasn't fixed your issues.

I haven't been offered any physio but I'm sure once I'm relaxed etc things will work just very strange being so different.  I still have days where I feel a heaviness and I panic that the surgery hasn't worked but I imagine everybody has the same.

chin up and make them listen to you x

Oh Mossup, I hope Matron sees this post and comments or can you start a new conversation. I cant believe they havent done all that they should to have helped you. poor you, you must be feeling so frustrated. not fair for goodness sake. you mention language barrier, where are you? regards Kath

Hi emma, interesting you should say about the 5p size gap, I thought the same thing after my "tidy up" but after my post op examination she did an internal and it was like she released some stitches so I went from a 5 cents gap to a 10cents gap (nz currency)  little bit of blood but nothing too major and not to painful.

I am in Germany Kath, I think if I am being really objective it was more poor communication in terms of just not explaining to me clearly or correcting my misunderstanding. I think he only intended to correct this and allowed me to think otherwise.

He did seem genuinely concerned and I think once his boss confirmed the enterocele he sort switched off/down played  the lower vaginal, splinting, digitalising and poor emptying (sigh) problems.

He really seemed to think there is no problem or at least not one he could fix. He spoke about a referral to colorectal consultant but pretty much said he personally wouldn't opt for any of the current surgical options.

I am gutted but another part of me is a bit oh well (hoicking up my big girl pants...) I have had this issue for 18 years and whilst it does because of pooing issues impact (bad joke) my daily life, work life and physical comfort I try not to let it get me down.

I am still in hospital on iv for abx will be here till Sunday. 

I am just stuck in my understanding of why he doesn't think surgery would help. As I was speaking to him I was asking how can having this full bulging rectocele and bulging of my perineum be normal (I can start a bowel movement and then it tails off because the rest fills the Recotcele and seems to lose momentum despite my positioning on the toilet, breathing exercise, relaxed sphincter) and just something I will have to live with.

At this point he started talking about using a daily enema- microlax? I very politely ended the conversation.  I don't know what to expect when reviewed by the chief artz and really what more I need to ask.

sorry for the full on vent Kath, just feel so cheesed off that I have gone through the last week for not much gain.

My colleagues are coming to visit me tomorrow and I am sure that after a few hours of bad jokes and teasing I will see the ironic side. It is a blessing in someways working with other hcp that I can just talk it out without any "urgh that yuck" faces :D

Hi I'm a bit lost for words (blinking heck that hardly ever happens!) roll on this chief artz I hope he knows what he is doing as I keep thinking the surgeon whom operated sounds so inexperienced. Fancy putting you through all of this and not doing all the jobs needed. Maybe wait until you get back to the UK. Id like to see how he would cope having to splint on a daily basis and not emptying properly. And the uncomfort of the bulging is not a great feeling. Im pretty sure you see the specialist today? and get to go home today too? . Try and keep your chin up love and keep smiling as well as posting xxx   

Hi Kath,

i will ill hopefully see the chief tomorrow afternoon, he is in theatre in the morning.  The oberartz cane to see me yesterday (sat) evening and suggested I stay put and see the chief and that the benefit is I will already have a bed?  My colleagues/friends from work had visited me earlier in the day and suggested the exact same plan to me. So maybe it is a thing.

could be Stockholm syndrome but really like the oberartz (😚 I could swear he has been in everyday (10) I have been here, doing 12 hr + shifts.  I now know I bled quite significantly during theatre, so maybe he cut short for that reason? 

As someone else said it maybe they won't operate so soon on me and in that case I will probably not get it done for at least another two years! As I start a new job mid-March. So most likely I will be home tomorrow and get to see my dogs 😍😍😍

After feeling down in the dumps a bit today I am now feeling quite zen about things. I am alive, loved and feeling strongish!?!

 

It sounds like you've had a tough time - really hope you recover well soon x

You are funny mossup, I had to look up on the internet what was a "oberarzt" then look up stockholm syndrome. This Kiwi girl (New Zealander) from the land of the long white cloud! had never heard of either. Have you ever ventured way down South to our beautiful country. Right now in New Zealand time its 11.20am on Monday the 6th Feb so Im pretty sure Im running a day and a half a head of you

Thanks for the well wishes Maria, I think after a bumpy start that things are smoothing out.  I really try hard to look at the positives and in all honesty this has not been as bad as I thought it might be.

just read through my post and squirming at all the typos!

the doctor titles here are really archaic and I am not really sure quite how they correlate to nhs terminology but it seems to me that oberartz and chief-artz mean the same thing but the chief is the boss!?!  

It is half before midnight as the Germans say and really noisy out in the ward tonight with the sound of new born babies crying, quite cute and making me nostalgic (Although that is what got me in this mess to begin with)

New Zealand is one of the few places that I would consider doing long haul for 😎.  

I have my my list and my diagram at the ready for tomorrow and will keep you posted! Have a fab day down there 😘

In the U.K. a urogynaecologist is a gynaecologist with at least 2 years extra training (after reaching consultant stage) in pelvic floor conditions. Gynaecologists can perform prolapse surgery but it rarely happens these days. We don't have any Chief's because all urogynaecologists are senior surgeons. Colorectal specialists wouldn't normally get involved with prolapse unless a patient is referred by the urogynaecologist. If we ask, they can and very often refuse. Under the NHS unfortunately we can't insist. Urologists don't perform prolapse surgery in the UK but I know in the USA they do.

So confusing.

This morning I was blindsided by having a new oberartz come to see me telling my bloods were and urine were now looking great and that if on examination all was fine I could go home...he has only worked in the hospital for 3 days...

i explained  what has been discussed and that the chief artz was coming to see me today, he didn't seem to know.  One very quick examination later and I was told I would need to see the chief. He can't see any issue with my recotcele ( he doesn't live with it) that would benefit from surgery.

begining to wonder if I have imagined all my problems. On the bright side I will soon be cuddling up to my dogs on the sofa!

The latest liaison/translator is saying she will become pushing for a referral for a proctogram she is more unhappy than I am.

At least you are going to see the Senior Doctor which is good. Although the doctor you saw this morning had only worked at the hospital for 3 days he's probably worked elsewhere and has experience however he needs to ensure he knows exactly what's going on regarding your possible discharge. I'm interested in the role of liaison/translator, is she a nurse? I hope they listen to her because the more that can be done to make a full diagnosis the better. Let us know how you get on.

Hi Matron,

just feeling a little flat about it all and really thinking that maybe this in my head even though I know it is not if you see what I mean.  Getting teary because I am still tired post op, low hb, missing home on top of everything else.

the team of translators/liaison is a mixed bunch but the one I have been relying on has a midwifery background.  She has been so supportive 😍

Just finding it it hard to focus and I guess if they can't see a problem they can't fix it and I get that completely. But I really don't think I would have put myself through this last week and a bit to repair a enterocele which was not symptomatic the majority of the time...

My anxiety is that  now that the enterocele is repaired that this is going to put more pressure on the rectocele as I used be aware that enterocele using act as a stop gap for stool and this would give me time to manage sluggish, impacted stool.

the reality is I won't be able to maintain the soft  stools I have that will pass through over the course of the morning when I am in work and especially when I start my new job in uk...then I will go back to cycle impaction etc!

really shouldn't have been so optimistic in hindsight.

It is understandable you'll be feeling flat at the moment. You've been through a lot and you know it's not over yet so you will be "over thinking" everything. You are on a ward with nothing to really occupy you except these negative thoughts that will keep going round and round. You are seeing the main doctor this afternoon, see what he has to say and tell him how you feel.

You are so kind to hold my hand and all the others you respond to.  It is looking very unlikely that I will be seen today by the chief, it is getting late, and think the new chap will say I should stay in till I am seen.  In this respect it is so different from the uk with regards to beds.

one of the nurses came to say goodbye to me till tomorrow as her shift has ended. When I said no I think I will go home today she said no don't do that stay and get it sorted! So different from uk where there is so much pressure on beds.

Although I continue on iv abx I feel well only having paracetamol during build up to bowel movements. There is no clinical reason for me to stay as far as the procedure they have done.  I feel very lucky that I am healing well.

I am thinking that the proctogram is maybe the way forward so that even if I choose not to have anything done now because of my timeline regarding new job I will be prepped for the future.

 

It's so good to read you aren't being rushed. That's good nursing/medical practice that we used to have in the NHS but now beds are needed. I had my repairs in a private hospital but as an NHS patient and I wasn't rushed either. My urogynaecologist came to see me and told me to stay until I felt ready to go home. It's such a shame we can't do that in the NHS but it's good that they aren't rushing you and now you have the opportunity to get some answers. I agree a proctogram is a good idea, it can't do any harm and could help with the diagnosis in the long term.

Feeling calmer.  It is so hard relinquishing control and so hard being a patient.  I think it is why I have put off having this done for so long so I think there little voice inside me say "see told you!?" 😏

Silly because use I spend so much time advocating for pts and referring for these exact problems.  But I am storing up all the experiences to reflect on and I know this process will benefit me from a professional perspective.

 

We do make dreadful patients sometimes. Keep strong x

Hi Ive been wondering how you are getting on all day so its good to get home from work and read your posts. Maybe today you will get to go home ? and yes its sounds like a good option to have that proctogram.  I dont blame you for feeling abit down its to be expected. What a long haul you have had to go thru and still not fixed completely. On the bright side at least you are healing from the repairs that they have managed to have done for  you. New Zealand is a beautiful country we are growing so very quickly with a lot of people moving here from overseas. I live on the Kapiti coast which is outside of Wellington our capital city. Our population here in the whole of NZ is around 4,604,800 no wonder we dont have urogynaecologist​s. Kind of funny looking up the population of Germany wow a staggering 80,636,124. Hope you are home soon with those doggies of yours take care xxxx kath

My dogs are blessed out and happy 😍

I left the hospital yesterday after waiting again all day to see the chief, I couldn't do any more waiting.  It is official the oberartz (my usual one) must some kind of slave...he was still there but had been in theatre all day.

He came to see me again and told me he had tried to get the chief to see me but it was not happening and that I should see him at the apt that has been made. He recommended a referral to colorectal and I am now seeing them on Thursday. Researching like mad, they do the Starr procedure here - reading lots of poor results but hey ho I will be open minded!  

Dreaming of days when I won't constantly be thinking about pooing and drinking water and counting grams of fibre...I can't decided if it is better to be obstructed with hard or soft poo both feel pants!

Feeling more drained than I expected and can't seem to nap so easily at home which is bizarre as the hospital was so noisy! Going to my neighbours for tea and distraction later which will be good

wow Kath NZ is small (people wise) really puts into perspective how luck I am to have all these facilities at my finger tips! I am also luck that my healthcare package is so comprehensive in this I am blessed...but should have got braver sooner and started to sort this out with more time to go.

kapiti coast looks amazing, beautiful and peaceful. Yet so close to the capital. The middle of Germany is not quite so stunning, but we do have lots of beautiful woodland.  We always end up going to the Netherlands for our sea fix 😊

I hope work was kind to you today.  Was strange going to work today as the patient lol! 

 

Glad your home, really hope things get sorted soon x

It is lovely being home emma!  Oh how I missed my bed, but not the stairs!!

drinking all this lovely water means many trips to the loo!  I felt very draggy and achey. Bedtime yesterday.  To day I am having a pj day in bed and feeling much more comfortable 😀

That sounds good.  I highly recommend pj days as you can't do much else anyway ha ha.  The stairs will get easier just take your time and enjoy being home 😀

Resting is working, everything is feeling so much more comfortable and just realised that I have had no paracetamol since 8am this morning (reminds me it is time to take abx).

I have been in bed with little loo trips regularly and only down the stairs 3x.

working on my professional revalidation paperwork so keeping my brain active...always a silver lining lol!

just turning over in my mind what I need to be saying at my appt tomorrow.  I am going to be realistic about my expectations I suspect that I probably won't be able to have surgery so soon after this one but really Want to know how bad it is and what my options are surgically.

Well done and I will keep my fingers crossed that your appointment goes well tomorrow 😉

Hi lovely, so glad to hear you are home, Ive just checked my computer before going to work as was busy last night. will send you a message tonight. Work is crazy busy we are the biggest store nationwide with incoming goods and sales and constantly growing. Hope you are enjoying those dogs Im sure they are thrilled to have you home

 

Really enjoying my freedom, even if it was spent in bed my dogs are like glue lol!!

i have an aunt who works in retail and that is a hard job! she is on the go constantly. Busy is good and would take it every time over a go slow job.

was strange going to work yesterday for my discharge appt think I owe my colleague a drink, I am a terrible pt!  Was fighting him giving me more time off...

will ll let you know how tomorrow's appt goes!!

Hi Mossop just catching up with conversations on here. Hope you got on well at your appointment today. Can you fill me in on what surgery you had? I know you are still left with a rectocele but you had an enterocele fixed? All the surgeries and terms I'm only starting to know/understand but I wished I'd asked more questions to my consultant but I am attending my first physio linked to post op on Monday so I will then. I am 8 weeks post op. I never really asked many any questions when I was discharged and have only found this forum since I have been recovering. On the copy of the letter sent to me it says 'Donna undertook a posterior repair and repair of enterocele under general anaesthesia today. The findings were a uterine prolapse grade 1 and a rectoenterocele grade 3. The procedure was uncomplicated and we are planning to discharge her on day 1 after the surgery'. I assumed this was just a standard rectocele posterior repair op which is what I was in for but only through reading on here that's its not quite! I don't know if my surgery has been successful I still have many problems and my swelling seems much further back but how are you feeling now?

Hi Donna,

in the end they only repaired the enterocele and small area of recotcele directly below the enterocele.  My recovery (once I recovered from a adverse reaction to ibuprofen and inflammation of the bladder) is so far unremarkable. Nearly two weeks post op and I have no pain and very little discharge. I can't walk far without getting a dragging feeling inside my vagina.

But I am really disappointed that the rectocele was not addressed and today saw a gen surg consultant who has urge me to put in a complaint about my treatment.  The more I think about my pre-op appt the more I think I need to say something so that this doesn't happen to someone else.

Essentially a houseman equivilant took my history in a lot of detail but no examination. I returned to the waiting area and after nearly 2hrs I asked what was happening and whilst I stood at the reception the clerk called the oberartz.  He was very apologetic and took me straight to a exam room with a female houseman and essentially went straight to examining me.  Both Drs struggled to find the rectocele but found got very excited about the enterocele.  I spent quite a bit of time explaining how few problems the enterocele caused me compared to the rectocele. The oberartz called the chief (head of department) he came an hour later and examined me ant spoke about the rectocele and enterocele and said not to worry they would fix me.

I thought they were listening but it is clear to me that they didn't and hadn't read the detailed history I gave the first Houseman. When they spoke to me they were not explicit about what they were planning to do.

if I had been told that they would only be repairing the enterocele and that this would improved my problems with my bowels I would have declined the op.  My enterocele was not actively symptomatic.

😳 Sorry I am venting...

I am now going for colorectal investigations and hopefully surgery if the timeline works out. 

It it sounds as though you had a good proactive surgeon. You have had more done so maybe normal for things to feel swollen.  How did your post op appt go Donna.

These ops are big and I think can be a big surprise how they knock you off your feet.