I feel a failure.

oh thank you so much....

that has really helped so much. somehow you gave me the opportunity to shed a few tears...i think that more than anything is what i need......x

yes thats it !

thank you diva. x

i've commented on your horse thread....really hope you can get back in the saddle. xx

thank you so much anita.

this information is inspiring. allergens sounds extremely likely. what about gluten and dairy as allergens too?

but your info about water is inspiring. we need to campaign to stop floride being dumped in our water supplies!!

exactly!!

think i may write to my local council enviromental health dept> i will quote the specifics of your case...its more than anecdotal. maybe you could ask your GP to confirm for the authorities too. stop us going like the US where they know but don't really care about their citizens if profit is involved!

Hi lizzie. I have found that cutting out sugar dairy and gluten helps immensely x

thanks so much phil...i've been considering this and will get going and let you know how i get on. any idea about time scales? x

Hi Lizzie if you cut out dairy gluten sugar the result is almost immediate. The flare ups are dulled down if that makes sense and are more bearable. I also use alternative medicine. Because this is an autoimmune condition that is caused by chemicals in food plus our water and off course stress. I take Vit c and zinc plus probiotics these help to readjust our immunity system as it has gone ballistic fighting off the chemicals etc. I also use one of hannys tried and trusted remedies and that is bicarbonate of soda, it works well for me.

I've kind started already....have found a bone broth recipe and i'm getting stuck in. I am looking at probiotics...VSL#3 has 450 billion CFU's per dose, this sounds pretty high, i'm using one with 70 billion CFU's per 2 capsule serving at the mo. there are others that i've encountered. would love to have a discussion about this. I'll be brave and start a new topic...SO much to discuss! the kind comments on here have really boosted me. THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH!

liz

tried to give you a vote...but it won't register!! thank you tho...much appreciated

Have you found the Aternative site for LS - there non standard remedies are being tried out and comented on - you may find it of help

sue

Thanks!

Well I was wondering if there any books on the subject? What reading is recommended? Anyone followed anything?

Thank you lizzie sorry I took a while to answer. It comes thru on my iPhone a bit late sometimes. Take care xx

At the home of this web address you will see New to LS and the various topics one is alternative  therapies, or some such heading. You will find lots of chat on there about various options others have persued... I go down the conventional route  because I am wary of qualifications I do not recognise and opt for the medical model with common sense thrown in.... And tried and tested treatments ... Too long in the tooth to change or catch up with new thinking I fear! Good luck tho.

oh you sound like quite the  young thing to me!!

i'll have a dig around....see whats out there. but i would like to remain a member of this group its full of heart and soul x

thanks for your good wishes phil!

do you know of any books or other resources?

Thank you, you made me smile! You sound so much better, how are you doing?

what area do you work in? Professionally and geographically? The stress of modern nursing is much tougher than when I was working I think, and the support structure very different too. Are you hospital based can you chat to your colleagues Dermatological and gynae to check out what they know about LS? I remember talking to a young houseman who couldn't understand my distress about the condition, My marriage had ended and I remarked this condition put an end to the possibility of a future partner, in my eyes,as I couldn't contemplate the thought of any physicality with a new partner, my husband had never been the most considerate. It was then it clicked with him just how emotionally bound up this condition makes us. He just saw a " quiescent condition" at that time...so what was I making a fuss about! I hope his attitude changed somewhat

 

oh well done!! you should see that as a major success...

I work in a major London Hospital...in Gastro-enterology. Its all change here...since the Intestinal Permeability research came to light. But some of the Consultants still haven't heard of it!! Some frustrated housemen and women on the ward...as they have read the research and are squealing to get change implemented. But in Outpatients I'm finding quite a lot of militant patients who now say they are refusing the ops offered whilst they attempt some of the more gentle regimes and refuse intrusive investigations....opting for seeking private testing or trying  the elimination diet to see if their symptoms are addressed in that way.

Do you know I hadn't thought about checking out the gynae/derm staff here. I will see if I can initiate any casual conversations in the canteen. I see my local GP and have to go to another hospital Consultant for professional reasons. I am happy with the recommendations I'm getting...basically supporting my own research....which I'm still sniffing out!!!!!!!!!

Yes sue...thanks to your help and this encouragement from the group I am really feeling that I can pick myself up and get through this x so i do feel a lot better.

Good for you Liz. Do tell me more about the IP research I am sure not many of us are up to speed on the latest thinking - or perhaps it IS only me!

Why do you think that we have low stomach acid these days?

Ok I'm going to have a go at this one!! It may not be brief but I'll try.

I also have a bit of a theory about it myself which I'll add on since you ask about low stomach acid.

The theory of IP was scientifically 'discovered' by Allesio Fassano in the 80's

Autoimmunity rests upon a three legged stool:

1/ Genetics (but only 25%)

2/ Enviroment

3/ Intestinal Permeability

IP s a consequence of inflammation. Its very obvious in IBS, Chrohns, Coeliac and others but the effect is less obvious in other autoimmune conditions.....however it will be there or would have been in the past .

prior to recovery (which can be spontaneous if nutrient dense foods are consumed)..

There are various ways of sealing up the leaks (just to be positive).

There are tests for IP which involve locating zonulin .. but if we have AI then we have IP... so unnecesary...unless a patient wants to see this evidence (together with tests for inflammatory factors such as IgA and IgG  which will confirm gluten and dairy reactivity. My GP offered me a gluten reaction test, but as gluten reactivity is always present in hypothyroidism - which I also have (boo) - elimination has been the answer. He also advised that I 'd need to go back onto to gluten for a period if taking the test since it would otherwise be negative (and often is falsely anyway so can be misleading in many instances...especially when newly manifest....when we most need to know about it and what to do). The tests really are only positive in the last stages of bowel destruction...and who wants to wait til then!!!!?. 

It seems the single epithelium of the bowel wall when inflammed by aggravants (most often due to food's  chemical saturation in the form of weed killers and pesticides. Round-up is the major culprit...so don't buy it!!) ...become ineffective at guarding the portals into the blood vessels of the digestive tract which are adjacent to the micro-villi of the small intestine and lie in close proximity. This is to facilitate the absorption of the end products of digestion. The transfer is by osmosis and also by carrier molecules. This is a highly delicate process and is intended to be selective. However inflammation present can cause these 'tight junctions' to loosen and more or less anything can get through. so the agents of further inflammation pass over...these can be moulds parasites undigested food particles...which all would normally be too large to go across the gut capillary pathway. B cells and T cells rush to the area....further summoning more lymphocytes and the autoimmune reaction has begun. But you can see how and why. Its not actually any incapacity of the body but rather of our lack of appropriately selecting foods. The immune system is being effective...but it gives up when we're idiotic enough to keep stuffing these inflammatory agents!!

The thing I don't hear so much about Sue in response to your question is the role of stomach acid.

I've been thinking about this. The body likes to go through various cascades of pH level. It seems to me that these differences operate as switching devices...so salivary amylase (starting to break down starch) is more alkaline in the mouth. The transistion to the stomach is to  an extreme acidic enviroment. We all know that this is where HCL is produced and its confined to the stomach.

oh dear got to go will be back...hope you're enjoying!

CAUSES OF LOW STOMACH ACID

A diet high in NON ORGANIC meat (where the animals are routinely treated with anti-biotics and are confined instead of being grass fed  have a high cereal diet ), dairy products, refined and processed foods, and fast foods.

Drinking chlorinated water, or iced cold and/or carbonated beverages.

As we age so does the production of HCl, however, young people even children may have underactive stomachs when their diets contain too much processed food.

Stress, especially low grade, long term emotionally oriented life stress is a huge factor that contributes to an underactive stomach HCL production.

Coffee and cigarettes – coffee consumption, and nicotine speeds transit and empties the stomach too quickly.

Dehydration

EFECTS OF LOW STOMACH ACID

An underactive stomach can affect the proper functioning of the colon, leading to constipation.

Low stomach acid leads to poor absorption of all minerals especially calcium, iron, zinc.leading to fatigue, or feeling constantly hungry despite eating plenty of food.

Allergies

Iron deficiency anemia

Osteoporosis

More than half the people with gallstones show decreased HCl secretion compared with gallstone-free patients.

Diabetics have lower secretion, as do people with eczema, psoriasis, dermatitis, vitiligo, and tooth and periodontal disease.

Leaky gut, gas and bloating, bad breath, burning sensation in stomach, heartburn, heavy, tired feeling after eating.

Stools are poorly formed, pale, greasy, floating, undigested food particles

With low stomach acid levels there can be an increase in bacteria, yeasts and parasites growing in the intestines.

well i think thats it...phew ....exhausted!! Any good to you?

oh no all that work has been moderated out. i do hope any offending trigger words can be removed ....and that i can have the opportunity to modify my reply to you sue!

feeling a failure again!!

Thank you I am facinated - I will cut and paste it so I can absorb it  better

This site can be frustrating i know- sometimes  very  complex responses i may have written disappear by scrolling or breathing...! Sigh 

It isnt just you - it happens to all of us 

To avoid being moderated try private messaging- hit the envelope you can then say stuff that isnt for public viewing- but obviously the moderators will be able to see the content i imagine

Thank you again for taking the time to write-I do appreciate it.

I am intrigued by the leaky gut being causing by thaat weed killer ...! I had a bout of acute diverticulis about 12 years ago - NOT FUNNY! OUCH! antibiotic drip for a week- I had a week of working lunches sandwiches /pizza and jacket potato no exercise then complete ileus!- so now tend to steer clear of  the first two and only occasionaly have the potato

Thank yo so much - now i understand the term much better - you explained it beautifully!

Soooo... apart from eating organic foods as far as possible, (and not using pesticides or herbicides in the garden) what is the received wisdom relating life style and diet to seal up the leaks?

As i understand it removing gluten from the diet is ONLY necessary IF one has an intolerence to gluten, and by restricting one's intake one is losing a lot of the necessary nutrients with no actual gain to the body.

Stomach acid is also affected by a low thyroid. 

THANKS Sue !!

And for the questions. Actually its not often I actually get to sit down and analyse not only the totality of the GI tract ....but its bloopers...or rather ours since we're in charge of feeding and maintaining our systems.

Will get back to you....going to have a little rest! But thanks for the warm appreciation. It makes getting this knowledge together all the more worthwhile. Have rather skimmmed...was keen to have your response...but don't quite understand one or two things. Did you have ileitis? And/or a frozen colon. When everything grinds to a halt? Got that you had diverticula. Sorry very painful.

hi hanny

agreed yes. but which comes first??????? Think they mutually feed each other in the disease process. Can't  believe I prob have low acid too, therefore, will have to think of a strategy. I get the impression that you've been doing this for some time with some improvement? I was asking earlier about your protocol...if you're willing to share...but you may have missed the enquiry....or maybe fed up with going into it(!)...but if you felt like summarising your strategy ...where you think you're on to it and where you think you have more work to do I'd be extremely interested to hear...as I'm just getting going and was advised that these  on-line support groups can really help. I've heard quite a few positive suggestions already!

I get that its multi-layered and, that as as one improvement occurs ...its on to the next level. I'm guessing gut infections / parasites / worms. These would be getting thro with low stomach acid...we are seeing many more of these cases and not just from folk coming back from abroad. Actually I think its more or less all of us now. What does your naturopath suggest for treating the gut?

Sorry Liz for not reacting on that one.  I've had a new health issue to deal with in my lower back and made short cuts with my e-mail.  Can not sit very long.

I am using colostrum for the gut.  

oh dear i'm really sorry!

is it some sort of back strain? What about kidney infection? Don't forget to think broadly. But have you done something with tension in your back?

Thanks so much for the tip! Noted.

Oh i've heard about a walking desk....its a tray on a treadmill. Also standing instead of sitting....which I must do !!!