I'm 65 years old and still bleeding occasionally. Anyone else in my age group still bleeding?

Hi Renee. Find comfort in the fact that you are not alone. As you can see, a lot of us are going through the same experiences with light bleeding. Don't let FEAR rule the day. Seek answers via the medical establishment; but when their recommendations aren't sound to you, continue seeking solutions for yourself that promote health and vitality. 

Forgot to say. ..NATURAL PROGESTERONE.

Im curious Cruz, how do you take progesterone (orally, vaginally, cream?)   Daily or a cyclical pattern?  And how much are you taking?  

I have used natural progesterone in the past but it was not prescribed. I used it transdermally and it seemed to work for me for 14 years until I had breakthrough bleeding 3 years ago. I do not use it now because it appears to cause bleeding. I am trying other natural approaches to balance my hormones. 

It is a cream. You can buy it on line or go to a health food store. Get this book on Natural Progesterone. JOHN R. LEE, M.D. You learn a lot and how to test your hormones with saliva. It stopped my periods for good. But you have to take it for life otherwise if you stop you bleed or spot. Try it.

Thanks Cruz.  If you don’t mind I ask, how much are you using?  How many milligrams of progesterone!  Morning or night, or both?  And do you use it daily?  No breaks?  

And have you ever had your estrogen tested?  Just curious about your levels at 65. 

Follow directions on cream. I don't take brakes anymore. I do every day.

It works! Try it. You can adjust how much you need every day. You might want to read the book by Dr. John Lee. All you need to know about hormone levels. Thank you and hope you do well.

Hello again Cruz.  Thank you and yes I have both of Dr. Lee's books.  The thing I find curious is that he even states in his Menopause book is that he apologized to menopausal women for suggesting they use progesterone cream when they are estrogen deficient.  (Apparently, he heard from many women who were hoping mad.)   This is why I was wondering about your natural estrogen level.  I know you said you had bleeding before the progesterone, and it did stop your bleeding.  

And since I have have some small fibroids, I'm also wondering if you have kept an eye on your fibroids using ultrasound?   Are they shrinking?  

Honestly, I have had some strange reactions to both estrogen and progesterone.  I'm happy you have found something that works well for you, and certainly wish I could too.  

I bleed every month...some times light, sometimes a little heavy...but I have not missed any months of bleeding yet

I skip months but I have never made it a year sometimes it's heavy I'm glad to know im not the only one going through this at 60

Every month Marie. It was more often than that just 6 months ago. I can tell that it is slowing because there is just one day of bleeding then it's over until the next month. I also used to pass large clots. Doesn't happen often now.  I have finally accepted that this is peri-menopause as one of these wonderful ladies has suggested. I truly respect every woman's decision to do what she will to address her health concerns; but, for me, hysterectomy is still not an answer as I believe this is natural and what our bodies were designed to do. I can deal with having fibroids. Every thing I have read indicates they shrink with age. The very best to you Marie! 

OK ALL YOU OLDER WOMEN STILL HAVING PERIODS.....................

Have any of you ever had your hormones tested?????  I’d love to hear your levels at these ages. 

I agree, since this runs in my family as well... I am not over thinking it... It is natural and nature so it will stop when it is my body's time to do so...even though most doctors look only at what they consider the normal or average woman... there are those like us whose lives and bodies are on a different time frame... so as long as things continue as they are... I will continue as I normally would and have for so many years ....sometimes i think doctors jump the gun without looking at family history etc and our own history's such as having children later in life etc...which my last one was born when I was in my forty's,  ...

My FSH was 43.1  and my LH was 17.5

thank you Sharlene.  That is interesting.  Clearly your brain is calling for some estrogen, but it's not screaming too loudly.  And even your LH is relatively low.  

 

Hello Gailannie,

As of 11-30-2017 my hormone levels were: Estradiol- 39.1 pg/mL; FSH- 18.8 mlU/mL; LH- 15.6 mlU/mL; Progesterone- 0.3 ng/mL; Luteinizing Hormone- 12.6 mlU/mL

I hope you are able to provide me insight concerning these numbers. I have always recognized that you are sincerely trying to help us all.

Thank you 

Hi Sesha, Thank you very much for the vote of confidence!   And yes, wouldn't it be nice if we all could be helped.  

First off, what I'm going to tell you is that at age 65, YOUR NUMBERS ARE VERY IMPRESSIVE!!  Apparently, your ovaries still have some ability to produce hormones.  Now keep in mind that hormones are never static.  They are constantly fluctuating, however those fluctuations are not as vast nearing meno as they once were.  So it's safe to say that even though you do have some fluctuation on a daily basis, it wouldn't be wide swings.  

There are women who go into meno (no periods) who run estradiol levels of 50 pg/ml.  Even with estradiol of less than 50 pg/ml women can still have periods and ALSO symptoms of meno like vaginal dryness/painful sex/sleep difficulties.  Generally 2-5 years after the final period, estradiol drops to an average of 25-35 pg/ml.  5 years later (without HRT) a woman's estradiol level is <25.  By comparison my Estradiol level at 57 was <15 pg/ml (this was 5 years without periods)   So your natural level of 39.1 is quite impressive for your age. Your follicles are still responding (albeit limited) to the FSH signal.  

The normal levels of progesterone for menopause is 0.03 - 0.3 ng/mL.  It's the adrenal glands that push off the progesterone for us after meno, as we are no longer ovulating and we aren't getting surges of progesterone from the corpus lutetium.  But your adrenal glands seem to be producing quite nicely.  

Typically our FSH rises above 30 -40 in menopause, indicating that your brain is screaming at your ovaries for more estrogen.  Yet even women with these ranges can sill have periods.  For comparison, a typical day 3 of the cycle FSH level runs from 3 -20.  But dependance on where in the cycle you are it can run from 2.5 up to 33.4.    Post menopausal reading generally run from 23 - 120.  But some women have even higher levels up to 150.  Your level may indicate that you have never been one of those HIGH estrogen females, and your brain is fairly happy with a level of 39-40.  

Your LH range of 12.6 to 15.6 is again looking decent.  A normal day 3 of the cycle LH range is from 3.5 - 20 mLU/mL.  

I think what this indicates is that your body is doing a fairly decent job of SLOWLY lowering your levels.  And your ovaries are defiantly on the far right side of the bell curve at this age.  Yet in some ways, it's interesting that you are still bleeding with estradiol levels in the 40 range.  For the majority of women, generally that wouldn't be enough to still create a lining that needs to be shed.  

So BRAVO to your body!  Obviously menopause is coming.  

Hi Gailannie: 

I had two done recently to verify my condition.  I tried to infer/interpret the results from you answers to Sesha to no avail.  Needless to say I really appreciate if you could shed some light on these results. 

                        1/26                 2/23 

Estradiol          188                  218                             

FSH                  37.6                 20.7

LH                    61.4                 39.7

Prolactin          16.8                 16.53

Testosterone   Not tested       15.19

Progesterone  Not tested       Not tested

I am approaching 61, and had these two tests done between two “periods” – with the first one a 20-day flow-spotting period ended on 1/8/2018, then an only spotting 3-4 days “period” ended on 3/12. 

Thank you so much! 

Cathy, WOW JUST WOW WOW WOW.   I've never seen a woman nearly 61 years old with that high of an estradiol reading.  So I have to ask, this is completely your own production?  NO HRT.  And ESTRADIOL levels NOT total estrogen?  (Just confirming)   

Honestly, I'm really surprised that your physician hasn't tested your Progesterone level. (if nothing else, just based on a 20 day period)  And at the very least tried some progesterone for you, as your LH is really elevated.  That 20 day long period must have wiped you out.  My guess is you are at times having some clotting?   Which usually indicates high estrogen in relationship to progesterone production.   

Your FSH is obviously showing some wear and tear, as a women with those higher estradiol levels are usually lower.   Your prolactin levels are within normal ranges.  

See this is the thing. Labs are just numbers on paper.  But they do give us some information.  And there's plenty of things that just aren't seen often enough and haven't been studied enough.  It isn't that uncommon for some women to have some whopper periods before they simply stop.  Kind of like the light bulb burning really bright, right before it burns out.  And it's more than obvious the follicles you have left in your ovaries are responding to the FSH cue.  (I still have follicles that show up on ultrasound, but they aren't listening or responding to my FSH, I'm 61) 

We do know by definition, that you are in perimenopause. Simply based on the fact that you are still having periods. (Albeit very erratic.)  If you've ever looked at a perimenopausal hormone chart, you will see very wide, almost roller coaster levels of hormones.  It's a very unregulated and erratic system at that point in time.  (But this usually is happening in our late 40s to early 50s.....not at 60 you lucky girl)    

I can't help but be curious.  Are you having any symptoms, and do you feel good?   I'm sure the prolonged period was very frustrating.   (My longest was 12 days and that was enough!)    And of course, never knowing what to expect is always such a joy.  (LOL)  But as far as the things most women complain about???  Do you have anything that stands out in your mind? (insomnia? low energy? loss of strength? Body shape changes? Feeling anxious?)   Or is it you're mainly frustrated by erratic periods?

While there are plenty of women who don't "comply" with the expected "Menopausal at 52 1/2" rule, your "periods" could go on for many years (as we see with other women on this post like Sesha)  OR your periods could just all of a sudden stop.  (YEP, there are some women who's Estradiol levels go from "normal" to undetectable on labs within a month.  Crazy hu?    

While this may not give you any solid answers, I hope this explanation helps you in some way.  And if nothing else, thanks for sharing your level with me, they are very interesting!  

 

Hi Gailannie: 

Thank you so much for your quick response.  You are great. 

No, I am not on any HRT or taking herbal supplements, etc.  I am careful about anything that might increase estrogen because I have fibroids (not sure if you have read about my post before).  

The current state of my story is that my fibroids have been shrinking and I am not experiencing heavy periods all the time anymore (maybe still occasionally).  What bothers me the most is the question of “when” as most, if not all, ladies here.  

Appreciate your concerns about the prolonged period.  I had one episode of longer period last summer that started as spotting, then when I went on a vacation and started walking a lot, the flow started and then dwindled.  I checked around and found this is not uncommon.  The 2nd time is the January period that started as a flow but then off and on and lasted 20 days.  It was not heavy but just troubling (more mentally than physically).  

I do not have most of the “lady” symptoms besides maybe foggy memory sometimes, and of course I have had anemia before due to fibroids but not anymore.  I am healthy and active like most, maybe all, ladies here. I am not on any medication, no high blood pressure, but was recently shown to be pre-diabetic.  However, about a year ago I started the severe symptom of dry skin/eye lids etc. and as described by some ladies (not just here) as have grown old overnight.  Is this the sign that I am, at least, approaching late perimenopause? 

One gynecologist and some on the web mentioned that fibroids could delay menopause.  I went to a highly respected fibroids specialist and was told this is not true.  He prescribed the two blood tests and after both showed the high estrogen level, he sent me to an endocrinologist for concerns about ovarian tumor (cancer and benign) producing the estrogen. The endocrinologist checked with ultrasound, and my past MRI, biopsy, ultrasound results and said the level (below 200) and his observation do not inform tumors.  He suggested removal of ovaries and tubes, saying it’s a easier procedure and less “destructive” than, say, a hysterectomy, which I have been trying to avoid.  Of course the benefit is I will definitely go into menopause - and then started all the symptoms. 

How do you think about his suggestion?   Another concern about late menopause of curse is the increased risk of endometrial / breast cancer, etc.  So how should we cope?  Should we wait or not to wait for the eventual (hopefully) and natural arrival of the stop? 

Oh, and the doctor mentioned that progesterone could increase estrogen and not advisable.  

Will a look at follicle help guiding the diagnosis?

Also can you elaborate what "Your FSH is obviously showing some wear and tear" means?  Thank you so much. 

Hi Cathy,  thanks for your detailed description of your current status. I'm sure I have read some of your earlier posts, but will admit I may not have been connecting the dots.   I am glad to hear that they looked for all other possible causes (tumors, etc) for the high Estrogen levels and ruled out anything sinister.  (Very good news that should set your mind at rest.)  So to sum it up, you are a healthy woman, without many issues or medical problems that are of immediate concern.  Your fibroids have been shrinking, which is the expected response as we get closer to menopause.  (They will/should continue to shrink)  Your bleeding, although it's annoying at times, is not really causing you any problems, and has been getting lighter. 

To answer the "wear and tear" on FSH, a normal woman in her fertile years has a range of 3 - 20 on day three of her cycle.  Throughout the cycle her FSH does rise and fall, somewhere in the 2.5 to 33.4 range.  Post menopausal ranges go from 23 - 150.  So your levels of 37.6 and 20.7 are showing that your brain is starting to "speak"  not "whisper" for estrogen, as your follicles age and ignore the signal.   Especially given your estrogen levels, FSH normally wouldn't be that high.  But I'll add that menopausal FSH is different for every women.  (Look at the wide variation in FSH levels post menopause 23-150)  So while it is considered the "cadillac" for menopausal diagnosis, it's usually just an aside to a lack of monthly periods.  (i.e. a women says she isn't having regular periods any more, they test FSH, and say YEP you're in menopause. Well DUH!)   And as far as looking at your follicles for some diagnosis, I'm not certain that would be of any value.  I was actually surprised to hear mine were even visible on ultrasound, as they do shrink and shrivel post menopause.  And it really doesn't matter, since they aren't responding to FSH any more.  

Doctors have two ways of dealing with issues brought to their table.  Chemicals or surgery.  There are at times, good reasons for both.  Ovarian or uterine cancer is, as one example, a good reason for surgery.  Natural menopause, albeit later than expected, is NOT a good reason.  This idea of removing your ovaries, is not the harmless or less destructive procedure, that your doctor is suggesting. (In fact, if I had to make a choice between removal of the ovaries or the uterus, without question, I'd pick removing the uterus) If you need any support for this concept, please go to a site of "sisters" who have undergone a "hyster"  (Trying to give you the name, without the moderator censoring my post)  There, you can hear all the numerous "problems" created by these procedures by well meaning physicians, who think it's ok to remove ovaries or a uterus. (Many of these women spend the rest of their lives regretting that decision, and had no idea the unexpected changes those procedures would bring.)  

And the other issue I would bring to this table, is that you can ask two separate physicians the exact same question, and get two polar opposite answers.  (You've already seen that)  And I bet if you asked that endocrinologist how often he deals with female sex steroid issues, his answer would be "almost never".  Endocrinologists deal with primary hormone systems: insulin, thyroid, and adrenal gland production.  (One Endo told me privately, the entire schooling on female hormones was "If a women had a hysterectomy, give her Premarin.  If she has a uterus, give her Prempro."  And that was the end of the discussion.)  There is a reason they call it "the practice of medicine" as there are rarely definitive answers for anything. 

Cathy, please keep in mind, that even after we reach menopause (no period for a full year) our ovaries are still producing some hormones even into our 80s. Altering your system, in a surgically abrupt way, may do a lot more harm than good.  And I'd hate to see you opt for some very unexpected, irreversible consequences.   Surgery, in my mind, should be reserved for those situations where doing nothing is not an option and ALWAYS be considered the last resort.  

As frustrating as your periods may be at times, there has never been a women throughout history, who did not reach menopause.  We all do it, at our own time and pace.  This is a temporary situation.  My suggestion is that you take a deep breath, and at minimum, WAIT A YEAR!  Continue to live the healthy life style you have created for yourself, and find a way to emotionally roll with the punches of periods.  Who knows, in a year you may find that your bleeding has diminished, your fibroids have continued to shrink, and your estrogen levels will surely have declined.  So my vote is YES, we wait for the natural arrival of menopause.    

Hope I addressed the issues in your mind, and certainly hope this helped.  

    

Dear Gailannie: I am in transit now and will be out of town for 10 day, however I think I have read most of your comments and all of which are close to my heart   My immediate response after the surgery suggestion is what about if I wait for another year, plus that now I always need to 'research' before I can commit to any procedure.  Thank you so much for your comments, they are very very very helpful. I probably have more to say after I come back.  

Enjoy your vacation Cathy.  I'm glad you aren't rushing into anything.  I think giving it time will do you more good then rushing into a "quick fix" that could cause you a lot of very unexpected grief.