Im doing intermittent catherisation. I am depressed about it and worried

Thank you Steven.....I am feeling better about my situation now.I replied to you in another post indicating where I am physically and it probably says something about my mental state. You sound level headed and personally, I am thankful for your input on these threads

pS...Steve have you stopped cathing now.?

No. I really don't need to but I want to track my PVR's as a way of tracking bladder recovery and I do not own a bladder ultrasound scanner so I use a catheter.

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S

Have you been told by a professional uro or similar, that bladders can recover totally or partially..? over years/months.?

GInAndPlatnic46,

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No, I have not been told by a professional urologist if the bladder can recover totally over time. One urologist said that "trabeculation is like grey hairs", but that was not the urologist who did my Rezum.

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When I chose Rezum, I worked closely with a family member who is an MD and they said that the bladder should be able to recover slowly over time, but that it could take a few years.

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When we researched this, there is a lot of studies on how the problem is created, both human and animal (rats and rabbits), but nothing on any post-BPH surgery studies that track bladder recovery.

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By collecting my PVR numbers every day and putting them in Excel where I can graph them, I can see that over time, my bladder appears to be improving.

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Steve

Thank you Steve..I actually believe the body at any age can regenerate itself eventually..It`s said that the human body totally regenerates itself every 7 years...some parts much quicker than others obviously..so why not the bladder..it will regrow/refresh and regenerate itself from the dna original print.?? (as long as it is not mistreated...well I like to believe this anyway..

GInAndPlatnic46,

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What the family-member-MD says is similar to what you are saying.

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As cells in the body die in the normal course of their lifespan, they are replaced. After the bladder outlet obstruction (BOO) is cleared, the abnormal cells created by the BOO that formed the bladder wall trabeculation, they should be replaced by normal cell. He said that this could take several years though.

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Again, what I find amazing is that while there is a lot in the medical/scientific literature about studies on how BOO causes bladder damage, I could find nothing on studies after a BPH procedure about bladder recovery. One would think that this was have been studied. Go figure...

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Steve

It does seem odd. I can only think that when the professionals write up a thesis or publish research they tend to go for short term research and checking bladders over three years maybe asking too much. .......Plus pharmaceutical companies benefit from the meme "bladders do not recover"....take a pill sir

yes yes Medicine only studies things that they can make money on. for example the ability of CIC to rehabilitate your bladder I'm sure will 'lnever get studied because catheter manufacturers don't make that much money. it's a cheap product.

Hello Dermot and thanks for your post..You are correct in that up to a few weeks ago I was actually quite down and didnt think turps had worked for me..the reason for it not working (in my thinking) was my bladder was compromised from holding too much in past preceding year(s)..

.......

Anyway I had read previously read that sitting while peeing for men made the things flow much easier as physiologically speaking, everything was more relaxed sitting...So apart from some good pees (after a pint of beer or glasses of water) I didnt seem to be able to pass enough naturally....then I reasoned that maybe seeing as when I had the beer, I peed well, at other times I was being to conservative in what I was drinking and actually my bladder needed a bit of a workout (within reason....& what is reasonable is the tricky one)...

.........

So between drinking more at times....peeing standing & peeing sitting it seemed to me I was passing more naturally by being less cautious in amounts drank...(uro`s always seem to bang on about fluid intake management)...I checked a couple of times by cathing and my pvr seemed to back my thoughts up, in that I wasnt building up retention but managing it quite well and possibly (hopefully) bringing it down...so sorry for long winded reply but yes things do seem to have improved...and I am hoping things carry on getting better..there are a few things still that worry me like post pee leaks (small but annoying) & too many trips to the bathroom during the night sometimes.......

..............

Any more questions please do ask

Hi Ginandplatnic46

Thank you for your reply.

Did you have chronic retention?

If so,was it building up for years?

Was your detrusor muscle very weak?

Were you able to void before TURP ?

Thank you

Dermot

Hi Dermot..

It was chronic but as soon as I started cathing I stopped voiding naturally.

I have seen this stated on here by others..."started cathing stopped voiding naturally".

Well I have thought about this and think the reason is cathing empties the bladder properly and if done regularly the bladder muscles (if compromised) are not in a proper state to void between (say)100 and 400 mls on its own...when for maybe years it has been overfull with possibly litres and only voided around (say) 2/300 mls of that 1,400 mls or so...& only when the bladder was really straining...I see it as pure physics..the bladder will get rid of some pee if not all even though it is compromised badly...what with gravity and the tired bladder wall being stretched will still have tension enough to get rid of some urine....

BUT when cathing is started methodically then the stretched bladder wall just hasnt got enough tension in the muscles to void 2/400 mls....when origianlly it was voiding pee when the poor bladder was (maybe) holding 1,400 mls !

.........................

I can only guess I was in chronic detention for maybe a year or more...I was a bit dumb and didnt notice how badly I was straining to void and all the other tell take signs....but then many things are obvious in hindsight. 😦

Yes I have to guess though... the detrusor has been compromised..

BUT I`m now hopeful that over the next year or so things will improve for me....

........................

I just now cathed for only the third time in 7 days and voided 180mls.....this after voiding naturally three hours ago.....(standing & sitting) So I am beginning to think when I sit & pee...there is the potential I am voiding almost all...

I know that I could cath straight after peeing and find out??but I hate cathing and if I pee then I walk out the bathroom and love the feeling of my life returning to some normality..

I cathed today in isolation... because I got a bit paranoid that maybe I was holding too much in....

I can ramble on a bit sorry....if I havent made sense in parts then do ask...

GInAndPlatnic46,

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What you are describing is unfortunately all to common with untreated BPH. Many of us including me learned this the hard way and we damaged our bladders. One of the more interesting articles that I read was titled "The Detrusor Muscle: An Innocent Victim of Bladder Outlet Obstruction".

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I don't know how long I was in AUR for and when I was peeing, I was probably just peeing out a smaller part of what was in my bladder. At the very end of 2017, I passed a kidney stone and 2 weeks later they took 2 liters of pee out of me and put a Foley in. When it was taken out 3 1/2 weeks later, I could not pee. This was a combination of a median lobe obstruction and bladder damage.

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After my Rezum, the blockage was removed so I can pee again and my damaged bladder has been slowly recovering as evident by decreasing PVR numbers. I expect this to take a while though. What I learned the hard way was to treat BPH sooner than later.

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Steve

I relate to many things you speak of Steve...good luck for the future.

ps am googling : "The Detrusor Muscle: An Innocent Victim of Bladder Outlet Obstruction".

I remember just over 3 years ago when I had my cytsoscopy and was told my detrusor muscle was in bad shape that I studied up on it to better understand this problem. I recall that with BPH when we strain to pee over the years that the elasticity or contractility of the muscle is reduced due to the formation of fibrosis or collagen fibers in the detrusor muscle that make it very stiff. This is what is meant by "muscling" of the bladder muscle. So over time if left untreated the kidneys get destroyed.

I asked several uros at the time if CIC could reverse this condition and they all said no, but that CIC would keep it from getting worse.

So I studied this and read papers on the detrusor muscle. I learned that the energy for muscle contraction, in general comes from the citric cycle in the mitochondria inside the muscle cells where sugars are converted to work energy. This cycle breaks down under the influence of fibrosis.

There is a supplement called CoQ-10 which is supposed to restore this cycle but unfortunately little of this drug gets into the mitochondria let alone into the cells.

I did find another supplement which uses targeted antibody-drug conjugates to deliver the drug directly into the mitochondria. It is actually used to restore skin elasticity and heart muscle strength.

Anyway I started using it at the time I started CIC 3 years ago. I cannot say that it helped me for sure and it is expensive but it might be worth a try. You can PM me for the link but please note I am not endorsing it. I am just relating my experience.

One key thing is that nothing will work to restore bladder muscle health if there remains a bladder neck obstruction like a median lobe. Even though I have a 300 cc prostate I am one of the 5% fortunate few with no median lobe as the cystoscopy showed. But over the past 3 years my NVs have gone from near 0 to 200 to 300 cc during the day.