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Inventor whom has taken 3.75mg of Zopiclone for 16 years seeking advice.

Posted , 3 users are following.

joshannon
joshannon

Due to my wife's mental illness I started taking Zop to get to sleep as my insomnia worsened. Initially St John's wort at 1000mg (herbal tea), did the trick.

I did used to take 7.5mg, and whittled it down to 3.75mg, and have been on that dose for some time.

I also take 2700mg of St John's wort for anxiety, and 650mg of magnesium.

Numerous people have suggested switching to Melatonin 3mg sustained release tablets, but I'm unsure what 3.75mg relates to in the Melatonin tablets. It seems so hit and miss, and also the posts with regard to withdrawal symptoms coming off Zopiclone are scary.

I was expecting to switch without issues, but in reading the discussion I now realise that some of the associated symptoms I've also had for years are associated with the Zopiclone, eg: vertigo, which I take ginger for to relive the symptoms.

My pharamacist said 1/2 of one tablet should be 1/2 of a 3mg tablet.

The Eurovital 3mg sustained release tablet, has other ingredients with no mention of the amounts of the other ingreidents. I'm worried that there may be a clash with the Magnesium (that I take for cramps), and the St John's Wort. 

0 likes, 17 replies

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  • RobertT
    RobertT joshannon

    Posted

    I take melatonin together with Zopiclone as I think it improves the depth and quality of my sleep and possibly the duration a little bit.

    The only melatonin I believe your GP can prescribe in the UK is Circadin which is a 2mg time-release tablet, although there is also Ramelteon which is a melatonin receptor agonist.

    I seem to remember something about melatonin being most useful (if not only really useful) with older patients.

    You cannot buy melatonin as a supplement in the UK – all Internet sources will be shipped from abroad (so remember there's import VAT plus post office handling charges if you go over £15). I think Natrol (a common OTC brand in the US, I believe) from Astronutrition is a little cheaper than Eurovital.

    I take up to 800mg of magnesium citrate a day as a supplement, not least for bone health.  I also sometimes take a gram or two of dicalcium phosphate as a source of calcium and phosphorus, again for my bones – the relatively tiny amount in the Eurovital tablets is going to be just a tableting agent as are the other ingredients, I suspect. Never tried St John's Wort.

    • joshannon
      joshannon RobertT

      Posted

      Thanks Robert,

      I appreciate your comment. How much Zopiclone do take and I assume you take the 2mg sustained release melatonin.

  • RobertT
    RobertT joshannon

    Posted

    I take 7.5 mg of Zopiclone a night; 15 mg if there's something stressful affecting me which fortunately is quite rare now.

    Circadin is supplied on a foil slip and tastes "scented"; if you take 2 or 3 a night the taste becomes unpleasant and the cost ridiculous. While I can get hold of Natrol, I do so. Natrol is, of course, supplied economically in a plastic pot like most supplements – why we have to have the most expensive form of a medication on the NHS, I really can't imagine.

    I was taking 10 mg of melatonin a night but recently dropped back to 5 mg. I think there's a point where more of it is of no added benefit.

    I fear my body's ability to produce some hormones and neurotransmitters may be impaired. I need to take the dopamine agonist Ropinirole to control restless leg syndrome; Zopiclone, seemingly, to improve my GABA situation when wanting to sleep; and melatonin as above. I mention this because, if you read up about melatonin, you'll probably find that at some point it was thought that the pineal gland, which produces it, calcifies with age and ultimately stops producing it anymore. Now, if I'm up-to-date on the subject, it's thought that it still produces melatonin even if it's calcified.

    • joshannon
      joshannon RobertT

      Posted

      That adds another complicating factor for me.

      Apart from being a klinefelter (47/XXY), we all suffer a degree of anxiety (hence St John's Wort). I also have calcification of the pineal gland, or rather, a moderate sized cyst on my pineal gland.

      It's a life threatening situation if this gets larger.

      I take noni juice (actually sustained release tablets, from NZ), 2000mg a day, (the juice gives me headaches), to control the size. It's been a few years since I have my last MRI scan (know I need to do this again).

      Estrogren is my primary hormone, and all immunity is tied to it. If my testosterone goes up, I instantly lose my immunity.

      So $64,000 question is whether my pineal gland cyst will be impacted by taking melatonin? This research indicates that it will probably help the situation: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22136735, and that a deficiency, probably causes the cysts in the first place.

      Another question which I should discuss with Vivian is the complications between St John's Wort and Melatonin.

      Thanks again Robert. 

    • vivien58797
      vivien58797 RobertT

      Posted

      Hi Robert.  I have just ordered some Melatonin and now wonder if there are any side effects i should be aware of.  Also, what sort of dose does one take.  I was also getting restless legs at night but have now given up Mirtazipine as i think that was causing it. I am currently trying taking Phenergan to aid sleep. Do you think they will mix ok with the Melatonin.
    • RobertT
      RobertT vivien58797

      Posted

      In the UK there should be no problem discussing this with your GP. For most people I doubt there will be much problem with melatonin or OTC anti-histamines for insomnia. A few effects like hypothermia, as I think the OP reported, may be fairly common though. Regarding anti-histamies, at one point my doctor was telling me to try using them rather than going to her for Zopiclone. Asking at the counter for them in chemists, the pharmacist told me I should see my doctor about my insomnia!

      Reading up on the subject after my last post about natural biochemicals that act on the benzodiazepine receptor led me to Bioactive Milk Peptides. These, even cheese and whey protein, might be more useful than melatonin.

    • vivien58797
      vivien58797 RobertT

      Posted

      Hi All.  Can anyone recemmend a safe and legal site to purchase some Zopiclone.  My GP wont prescibe them anymore and is now refering me to a sleep clinic.  Phenergan dont seem to work either and have stopped taking the Mirtazapine,
    • vivien58797
      vivien58797 RobertT

      Posted

      I will have to wait and see robert.  Probably have to wait weeks just to get the appointment.  They seem to have deleted another reply from you. o Zopiclone is a class c drug. No wonder gp`s wont prescribe it anymore.  Thanks for all the info.
    • RobertT
      RobertT vivien58797

      Posted

      Please keep us informed.

      (I essentially double-posted when the links were held up for moderation)

  • vivien58797
    vivien58797 joshannon

    Posted

    Yes, you shouldnt mix  st, johns wort with some other medications,, anti-depressants, i know for sure, but not sure about melatonin.  My gp has now stopped giving me Zopiclone.  I am surprised you can still get them.  I liked them but am now on Mirtaziprine which are not the same.  I didnt have any withdrawal symptoms coming off the Zops except insomnia.  
    • joshannon
      joshannon vivien58797

      Posted

      Hi Viv,

      Can I call you Viv?

      GP's over the years have refused to prescribe Zopiclone, but have not given me any viable alternatives. I did research GABA at one point, that this acid was the "active" component of the drug, but its not available in Australia, to GP's, on prescription. The only people that could prescribe, are Psychologists (??). Anyway the cost was prohibative.

      I already need to pay exhorbatant amounts for my wife's antipsychotic medication, and hit the drug threshold, the fastest in my supplying pharmacy, i.e. in about 5 months. (around $1500 AUD).

      So St John's Wort (2700mg), is a serotonin inhibator. 

      I note that SJW actually contains melatonin. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypericum_perforatum / https://patient.info/doctor/st-johns-wort

      I wonder how much.

      This is a huge worry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serotonin_syndrome

      I have had my human genome mapped, and I'm at risk for getting autoimmune conditions, eg: MS, and Schizophrenia.

      I have one MS allele, and am a carrier for the other. Have had granular fever.

      Also have APOE allele, and my mother has Alzhiemers.

      Medical interactions are so complicated, and if I'm stable on a course of medication:

      low dose zopiclone (3.75mg), for insomnia 

      moderate high does of St John's Wort (2700mg). Am a redhead so sensitivity to light is no issue, I have to stay out of bright sunlight on a/c of skin cancer risk

      moderate levels of magnesium (650mg) for muscle cramp

      I take a bunch of other vitamins, amino acids, and noni juice for pineal gland cyst control, and try and eat organic additive free diet. When I eat out - infrequently - its going to react with me.

      At the moment I have crippling back ache, that I hope is not MS, and may require hernia surgery again.

      I've got a female bone & muscle structure, on account of being 47/XXY, and having my primary hormone of estrogren.

      I've got a number if chromosomal mutations.

      Don't think I can change, although ultimately I won't be able to get Zopiclone much longer, unless I import it from the state's, but I know that will be illegal.

      Patient Moderator Note: I have removed an URL (a link) from this reply as it was unsuitable for inclusion within these forums however I have provided a suitable replacement / s. Sorry for any inconvenience.

    • RobertT
      RobertT joshannon

      Posted

      Zopiclone is a GABA agonist, binding to the benzodiazapine receptor, but does not contain GABA – it's a unique chemical in itself. I guess one must have enough GABA for Zopiclone to work, but, oddly perhaps, I've never discussed taking GABA itself with my GP. There's a video on YouTube, "The GABA receptor | How does it work?" by Areo Saffarzadeh which I found quite helpful understanding how Zopiclone works.

      Reading further, it seems that the benzodiazapine (BNZ) receptor might actually be a receptor, rather than just a binding site for the drugs, and that there might actually be a natural biochemical secreted by our brains which acts like the BNZ's and Z-drugs when we need to go to sleep.

      I too suffer from night cramps which can be very severe if I don't eat a high amount of protein during the day, particularly after exercise. Since Baclofen is prescribed for cramp (not to me and I've never asked for it) and works on a different part of the GABA receptor to the BNZ's and Z-drugs, I sometimes wonder if I don't have an overall problem with my GABA receptors.

      I doubt a psychologist can prescribe anything. If a psychiatrist can prescribe anything that your GP can't, it probably relates to where it is prescribed rather than what it is.

    • vivien58797
      vivien58797 RobertT

      Posted

      Hi I have been getting restless legs in bed at night since coming off the Zopiclone.  Do you know of any remedies to couneract it.  I am currently taking Mirtazapine which i believe is causing it.
    • RobertT
      RobertT vivien58797

      Posted

      Very, very probably the Mirtazapine. I took Mirtazapine while my GP was trying to find something that would eliminate the need for my taking (so much) Zopiclone. Restless leg would start playing up just about an hour after I was beginning to relax with the effects of the Mirtazapine. I think it's related to Mirtazapine causing cells to take up sugar from the blood (which also causes the weight gain problem in many/most people who take it). Restless leg is somewhat affected by your blood sugar level.

      As I've said in the Mirtazapine threads, I couldn't get off Mirtazapine fast enough.

      Lack of sleep is likely to make the situation with restless leg worse (like with fibromyalgia), but if you've only started getting it since starting taking Mirtazapine, then I would think there's little doubt it's the Mirtazapine causing the problem.

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