Is it poor decisions by the DWP or poor planning by the claimant?

Posted , 5 users are following.

Almost every day I read of claimants complaining of poor/bad decision making by the DWP.

Always in mind my (drilled there by my then RSM and 'cleaned up' for broadcast!!) is the statement - 

Proper Planning Prevents Poor Performance

If you apply that to all applications for a sickness/disability benefit you would achieve a much better level of decision making.


0 likes, 20 replies

20 Replies

  • Posted

    Hi les59996,

    You are absolutely correct with the 5 ps'. However this will will only work if it is applied from both ends. When the dwp receive your 5 ps' presented case it would be a wonderful idea to think they would then apply the same 5p principle. Unfortunately, they are pressurised from above to make sure not every claim is successful even if it does succeed on review.

  • Posted

    you could have an iron clad, fool proof application and they would still twist it to suit them so they could turn you down, it's what they do best.. unfortunately!.

    • Posted

      just as an afterthought.when you don't know the rules of "the game"?

    • Posted

      sorry everyone that txt wasn't intended for this apologies. cant think how I did that.

    • Posted

      Good question.

      Most people don’t know the ‘rules’ as they often assume the only criteria for PIP/DLA/ESA is diagnosis when the truth is the rules are quite complicated.

      Of course some disabled people are capable of understanding the system but the vast majority (especially those who suffer with mental health problems) find the equation hard to work out and basically go in blind.

      This is why we see someone with multiple conditions scoring zero points. I have some sympathy with the HCP because they can only make assessments by following the rules. They are not allowed to make assumptions in favour of the claimant without having enough evidence to tip the balance of probabilities and this often causes resentment and allegations of incompetence because the claimant expects the HCP to do the hard work for them.

      The DWP advise the claimant not to seek extra evidence but personally I think that is a mistake. More evidence = a shifting of the balance of probabilities in your direction with the end result of benefit being paid.

    • Posted


      And as you say there are many that don't or can't understand the rules.

      However for mental health situations there is a 'plan' in place, put there by the government to help the claimant.

      If for example the claimant does not have access to welfare rights or a friend/relative that can help. the DWP are required to arrange for a Visiting Officer to come to their home to help fill out the form and advise on the evidence they may have.

      There was a very good reason behind the regulation that says that the claimant is NOT required to send evidence in that they don't have.

      They have tried to balance the situation in that those with available money would be able to afford to pay for good quality evidence whilst those with little or no money would be left out in the cold.

      You cannot have a situation where you are more likely to get a good award depending on how much spare cash you have.

      So to put everyone in the same boat, the claimant only needs to send in what they have (and not what they can get).


    • Posted

      what friggin rules r u on about ,nobody told me there rules,

      a 22 year old is saying im fit for work , my doctor is sayinmg im not so who,s right her or him ,i thought when i failed my medical

      assesment for esa support i would automatically go back to the wrag componant . no frigging way , now they have stopped my housing benifit, i have to apply for job seekers allowance ,and they r saying have i got a cv ie ben on beniis or the last 10 years


    • Posted

      The rules relating to ESA are those that make up the benefit - the descriptor. No one is saying that you aren't fit for work - what they are saying is that you didn't fit enough of the descriptors to gain enough points.

      As an example you could have someone that is quite honestly, from a medical point of view, totally unfit to carry out any work. That doesn't mean to say that they will be awarded ESA. Someone who has one problem with their health in that they find it difficult to reach with either hand into the top/breast pocket of a jacket/shirt etc would not only gain enough points to get ESA but would also automatically go straight into the support group.


      So the rule is to match enough descriptors and gain enough points with your difficulties when completing the claim form.

    • Posted


      dont u understand they r not here to help u in any way ,they here to trap u and get u off u r benifit ,you fill in a health assement form , u fill it in , so why do they ask all the same qeustions that u have already told them on the form basicily they r hoping u will say something diffirent than what you answered on the form WISE UP THESE PEOPLE R HERE TO GET U OF BENIFITS no other reasons and people on tis site ,who oh U HAVE TO KNOW THE RULES OF THE GAME r ost likeley c**ns who have won their claim and making therselfes busy in other peoplesw misery


    • Posted

      Yes great les

      I had my health assessment audio recorded, in which she has told the dwp one thing and the recording says another, their are 10 discrepancies on the disc, she asked if I could lift my hand over my shoulder I said it was painful, she never said that to dwp.

      I told her my daughter does my washing, she told the dwp I have no problem doing my washing myself, on the cd you hear her asking if I use my gt spray, I say to her yes, but mainly in the winter as the cold weather seems to worsen my angina, she told dwp I don't use my spray, I thought if I lost the support allowance I would automatically go back to the Wrag group NO i now have to reapply for normal jobseekers allowance, my housing benefit is suspended, and all because a frigging 22 year old therapist has over ruled my GP, who incidentally has gave me a not fit for work certificate today stating on it that he will not be issuing any more.

      I have had all sh*t when applying for dla they are only there to get you off benefits and by hook or by crook they will, so to end this post the Hcp has obviously not listened to the recording my advice to anyone going for this assessment apply to have it audio recorded at least you will have a chance when you appeal


    • Posted

      William I understand you are upset at losing your benefit but that doesn’t give you the right to be offensive towards other ill/disabled posters on this site who are in receipt of benefit by labelling them ‘cons’.

      You have to understand that the world won’t change just to satisfy your wishes, you have to adapt and understand the ‘rules’ because there is no other way.

      Les & others have tried to explain how things work if you chose to ignore that advice then that is a reflection on you and not others.

      Your best bet is to learn the ‘rules’ and find a way you can fit a descriptor which will allow you to appeal against the DWP decision. There is help available via CAB and Welfare Rights and your efforts would be better severed contacting one of those organisations

    • Posted

      Yes you do have to know the rules to play the game. As for my experiences I have had 21 years of history with the DWP - none of it good. But that was my fault because looking back I just didn't play by the rules hence I had to fight every year to keep my benefits.

      When I wised up, the stuffing had been knocked out of me so I gave up.

  • Posted

    depends.on how long you look at the history of the subject.

    a)it's the game of the Deployers of Worktodeath or Perish.

    b)see a,who sets the rules.

    c)claimants are to initially to have as little knowledge of how to access the rules.

    d)by the time claimant has learnt said rules,the game will have been over. collateral damage((maximum) versus money saved.more than forecast.winner? money saved.every time.

    • Posted

      There is enough information and help on the internet to sink a battleship. On top of that there are charities that will advise you.

      To be frank, admitting that you know nothing of the rules clearly shows that you have not done enough reading or research or even haven't asked enough questions of people.

      Don't blame the DWP or even the assessors - the clear fact is you should take control of your own situation and plan/progress/prosecute a claim that the DWP would have great difficulty in not agreeing with you.


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