Manipulation scheduled. I'm apprehensive.

How did it go?? Are you mobile now??

Sorry, I don't check on this forum nearly as much as I used to. It's actually 2 years since the manipulation. As far as bend is concerned I have no problems at all. I can even reach my toenails to cut them. But.... My knee still hurts on stairs - not on flat ground at all - just on stairs. I'm about convinced that it's not the joint that's the trouble but perhaps a tendon. Who knows? I asked the surgeon after a year and he said that lots of things got moved around in there and that they had straightened my leg too, so it could be anything. He also said that he would not do my other knee until I had to crawl into his surgery. He said I would have the same problems with it that I had with the first - perhaps more, if that's possible, because that knee has had 3 previous surgeries already and the scar tissue from those surgeries will complicate things (the knee I got replaced had only had 2 precious surgeries)

Anyway, I'm doing fine, all considered. Been out shoveling compost today. The other knee though has dedcided to have the knee cap catch on something in there and it first started while I was driving in traffic - where it got stuck on the clutch and I could get it off. No fun. Maybe I'll be crawling back to his office sooner than I'd like!

My MUA went very well. Better than I expected. I am up and moving about but I have a limp. I am hoping that will go away soon. I babied by leg too much in the beginning and the atrophy was significant. I had my injury in January and did not even attempt walking until 2 weeks after my MUA on March 22nd. Hoping to be completely independent soon. I usually take 1 crutch out with me for extra support. 

in case you didn't notice - this thread is over a year old.

I am 8 weeks post TKR right knee today. I have been at 100 degrees for the past 4 sessions of PT. I see my surgeon next Weds and am thinking he will schedule manipulationfir me. I scream into a pillow each PT session as my therapist tries to push my leg back. Tears every session. I am wore down!!! Scared. Can go up stairs but not down. I want to be able to golf again with my husband. Still not released to drive. HELP

Why would your surgeon want to do MUA when you have 100 bend, Karen? You are 8 weeks into a possible 12 - 18 MONTH recovery. You are right at the beginning of your journey. If you could only get half that bend then maybe you would need MUA.

Please don't over stress on the numbers, they are important but not the be all & end all!

Keep icing, elevating & doing your exercises, you will get there! Your bend WILL keep on improving in the coming weeks & months, at 100 you don't have too far to go anyway, they reckon 115 -125 is good recovery, you are nearly there.

I'm sure I'm not alone in thinking that some surgeons & physios push too much! But hey, have they had TKR?

I have a friend who is a retired carer & in her training she had to wear these big gloves that simulated an arthritis sufferer trying to pick things up with hands that do not work. She also had to wear specs that simulated the sight of a patient with AMD! So she would understand how these conditions affect the people she was looking after! Shame surgeons & physios don't get to do something that simulates how it feels after TKR!! I wonder what they would say then!

Don't worry you are well on the way.

Take care

Marilyn

XX

Marilyn, thank you for responding. The surgeon wanted me at 110 degrees by next Weds when I see him. My PT is concerned because she can seem to get me beyond 100. She worries me. There is always screaming into a pillow as she tries 5x a visit, 3x a week to push me as far as she can. I hate going as I hate to make a scene. I always apologize to other patients there about my crying tears and screaming. I want to get better. I am truly frightened that I will never be normal again. I ice all the time and do exercises at home. I don't understand why it appears to be stuck at 100.

Karen

Hi Karen

If you have a look back at some of Chico Marx's posts, he says there will be highs, lows & plateaus (which are the worst).

I didn't reach 100 until after I was discharged by physiotherapy at the end of January (had my TKR in October '16). I do not measure the bend, but have seen the bend improved to the point where I can go up & down stairs with ease, in fact as my other knee needs TKR I go up & down solely on my operated leg. I can climb onto the step stool at work which is the height of two steps & I oam working on rebuilding my quads.

Surgeons & some physiotherapists tell you there is a time in which you must get the bend otherwise you will not achieve it! I do not believe it to be true! My physiotherapist said the bend will keep on developing over the next year, as swelling & bruising go down around the joint. Don't forget you have had a brutal operation, your knee joint has been sliced & diced, everything moved aside to cut away the diseased joint! So just give yourself a break & BELIEVE you will get the magical 110!

The healing time for TKR is 12-18 months if not slightly longer. We are all individuals, some heal quicker than others.

If you have a look at some of the recent posts on here there is a vast difference between people in how they recover from TKR.

So pleased,please don't STRESS over the bend, try your best, do all the things you should but don't let them bully you.

Have a look back at some of the recent posts, a lot of other people saying exactly the same things you are!

You WILL get there, in your own way & time.

I think you are seeing one of Ali's 'physical terrorists'! Lol

Take care

Marilyn

XX

You are a dear!! Thanks. Was at 102 today - an Easter miracle!! I appreciate your positive outlook! K

It was the same for me. I've since decided there is absolutly no reason to inflict that much pain on anyone, and I will never see that PT again.

My advice though is to just go ahead and get the manipulation. It won't be pain free, but as long as you keep it bending after they break the scar tissue, it will keep on bending. It may get worse for a whhile because of swelling but as soon as the swelling goes down you'll be OK.

Thank you. My Manipulation went very well. I was told by the surgeon that there were several loud popping sound. After the first day I had to discomfort or soreness outside of anything normal. I was very surprised. Within two weeks I was at 115 degree flexion and 0 extension. I am now starting to walk with 1 crutch instead of two and walk some on my own. My physical therapist has been great. And I also rented an X10 Halley Orthopedics machine. It is so much better than the CPM. I am now at a point where I can use the stationary bike at a certain setting and am hoping to make some more gains in the near future. 

Karen, Go on youtube and watch videos on the X10 Halley Orthopedics Machine. You can avoid manipulation if you use this machine it was a life saver for me. But that being said...I had my manipulation and it was so worth it any minimal pain or discomfort afterwards. I think if you did both you would see alot of improvement very quickly for yourself. 

Do not be afraid of the manipulation. Also, I would get rid of this physical therapist and find another one who knows how to do the therapy without causing you that much pain and tears. My first physical therapist was like that and it was not good. I was so anxious about the pain that my brain would not let my leg bend. I got a new physical therapist after a two week wait and he was and is wonderful.  He has small techniques to make me relax and allow the knee to bend more freeling without my guarding the kneed for pain. MY first PT was very aggressive and I only obtained 25 degree flexion after 3 weeks of work. I took a two week break and went down to 5 degree flexion while waiting for my new PT. By my 3rd visit with my new PT I was at 45 degree flexion with no pain. Some people are not for everyone. 

For a week I went from 95 degrees to only 75 degrees. My PT new PT didnt push it, just had me do other exercises. Simply said Rome was not bulit in a day and there are good days and bad days. 

The following week I was able to move more to 100 and 105 the following week. I was worried at first but things corrected themselves. 

Thank you for sharing this. I needed to hear it. I want to call and get a 2nd look by different PT.. The force pain is unbearable even taking the narcotics before. I hate hearing, " Don't fight mr, relax". I have been so tight and swollen in my knee since my last session last Thursday. I'm on my 2nd round of PT trying to get to 105. Dr may do a MUA. I've 3 more weeks of PT. TO All who are still commenting on this post, HUGS AND THANKS! Believe me, it all helps seeing experiences and advice!!! Also, I do feel my PT is good and knowledgeable. He is tough and shoots straight with me. He feels all he is dping for me is all they know to do.. start on bike, force bend, bike, force bend, then the single leg squats on a Total gym.. ugh.. then bike..

Def. Want to try a diff. PT...

Karen, I'm right with you. I haven't tried screaming into the pillow.. I will try that. I'm usually just sobbing.. I'm at 101 after my aweful session. The force bending and stretching part is so painful. I had to start using my cane in PT just to walk from the bed to their bike! The knee hurts that bad. My PT tells me over and over it is due to my knee capsule being so bad before I ever had surgery. I believe it.. just want to see if there is a PT like is discussed that can help me relax and not create as much pain during the force bending.. my surgery was Janary 24th this year. I'm 2 months 3 weeks out.

Hello Karen! I'm in the same boat as you.. I'm 12 weeks from surgery. I was at 96 after first 6 weeks. On 2nd round of PT going 2x week now. I sob every session. Even with percocet. One day last week I forgot to take the pain pills. Never again.. it hurt too much. I'm not scared anymore. I hate all of this. But reading many forums on here helped me accept there is no quick fix. I'm sure you would agree we really HAD NO IDEA what we were in for after a TKR. Chico Marx posts, and many others assure me the knee heals when it heals. We have to be pro active on our own to keep moving, walking, doing stairs, stretching. And for you, playing Golf! We can do this!!

My Dr will do the MUA if I'm not at 105. So karen if we have to the MUA, let's face it chin up!! We will walk great again!,

Hi Julia

You have the right attitude there. You WILL get there!

Personally I think some physios (more than surgeons) are too gung-ho with TKR patients. The bend will come with your own work without be tortured at physiotherapy! They will threaten you with MUA & the surgeons displeasure, when they should know that with the swelling you have the bend is harder to achieve. They will tell you there is a 'window of opportunity' to get the bend! When in actuality the bend will keep on developing as the swelling subsides. You do need to work on it but you do not need torturing to get it!

I'm afraid I see it as mind games! Scare the patients into submission! I've read sooo many posts from people on here being tortured by physiotherapists!

Good luck with the rest of your rehab, you will find you've achieved the bend you need & hadn't noticed until measured! Relax into it!

Enjoy Easter Monday.

Marilyn

XX

Thanks so much for all the advice. If the bend cannot be achieved because of "swelling", I was told it was because of "scar tissue".

I use ice every night and T least twice during the day. I go to therapy today at 3:15 then to the surgeon on Wednesday afternoon. I am nervous but did get to 102 on Friday. I just want to wake up without pain again. This is hard work!! 😢😤

Without pain will come in time. There are some slow days when there is significant swelling. And swelling is just the bodies natural way of protecting itself. But the best way to move swelling out of the joint is through movement. My new therapist talks to me, makes jokes, and gets me to relax and stop guarding myself. When I'm guarding, I tense up and moving the knee is like moving stone to bend. On some days he gives me a pulley and I can loosen it up on my own because I trust myself not to cause too much pain. It's genuinely a long process to recover

Manipulation tomorrow morning. The Dr said the scar tissue won't allow my knee to move any further. It is still painful every day and it's been over 9 weeks. Sigh.

Just found these posts and feel finally some understanding... I am at 6 weeks post op today and have been unable to straighten my leg. (At 14). Also bend -at only 105. I m scared dr will suggest manipulation -n I don't know if I can handle more pain. I don't tolerate pain meds, can't rest now -and PT  3 x weekly ends in tears.... Anyone have encouragement for me? Wish I never had this surgery...

You are going to be alright Carol, 6 weeks is pretty early in the process. Keep up with what you are doing. Read the rest of the posts of people's anxieties, pain, suggestions, and encouragement. You are going to reach your goals. Stick with the program and if something does not feel right say so. I had a frozen knee and was at 25 degrees, then 45 degrees for 2.5 months. I was unable to straighen my leg fully to 0 degrees until month 4.5. I had my manipulation at month 3. I am at month 5 now and at 120 degrees flexion and negative 3 extension. Calm your worries, trust that you will get there...and stick with the program. When at home put on some nice music and do your exercises. Fear, anxiety, guarding, disappointment, high expectations hold us back. Take it one day at a time, and do the best you can that day. Before you know it, you will have surpassed your expectations. And if manipulation is what the dr would like...its a 30 minute procedure and you may not have any more pain than currently, and you just might have more pain relief. Be open, keep a good positive attitude, and pain is temporary but the results are the reward. 

I am almost at 14 weeks post-op and had manipulation 3 weeks ago. They totally knock you out, Carol, for only 15 min. No pain from that but the PT is terribly painful. I am having blood work done tomorrow to see if I have an infection. I should NOT be in this pain after 14 weeks, for goodness sakes. Hang in there. This type of surgery is really tough.

So appreciate the replies and help! The Pain, with no rest; I feel like I am in a maze that's never ending. So many with more problems than me. I have heard both positives and negatives regarding knee manipulation. I see the doc at 7 weeks and will have x rays... Trying hard to get those ROM numbers where they need to be... I will keep plugging away- n say prayers for all who are in the trenches with me, hang in there!

Can you start a new post for your experience as this is such a long one it's quite a task to find your entry! Love your expression of being in the trenches!