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Menopausal Frozen Shoulder

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Lesley998
Lesley998

Any ladies with frozen shoulder who are peri menopausal/menopausal and not on HRT should have a serious chat with a (preferably female) GP.

I suffered for ages (two male GP's dismissed the idea of it being hormonal) before being diagnosed with menopausal adhesive capsulitis by a Nurse Practitioner who researched the subject for her thesis. This is also sometimes known as menopausal tendonitis/arthritis. After a month of being on conjugated estrogen (Prempak C) it is like someone has 'oiled' my shoulder. I felt like I had completely seized up and my bicep and shoulder muscle were like concrete. I am now able to do gentle exercises to free the adhesion, and can now lift my arm (impossible for months) to wash and dry my hair/shave under arms etc. Estrogen is the WD40 of the body, and without it, in some women the soft connective tissue goes hard and brittle. Not all women suffer from joint/connective tissue problems in menopause,. but interesting it is usually the ladies who were a bit smug, because they got got to 50/55 ish with no real symptoms or hot flushes - then bam, being hit like a ton of bricks with frozen shoulder. I also had stiffness and pain in the other shoulder, other large joints, elbows and fingers. Mornings were terrible, it could take up to ten minutes to actually get OUT of bed, and sleep? Forget it, being woken with shoulder pain every half an hour.

HRT is not for everyone, but AC was ruining my life. Given that the prognosis for recovery can be up to seven years ...I decided the risk was worth it.

i would never EVER have thought that simple 'hormones' could cause so much pain and change me from being a fairly fit 50 year old into a crippled 90 year old.

Google menopausal frozen shoulder/menopausal tendonitis/arthritis and go and see your GP ladies!!

14 likes, 270 replies

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  • jrctheo
    jrctheo Lesley998

    Posted

    Thanks for all the valuable info.

    Yesterday was the first time I came across the term 'frozen shoulders'.

    We were a bit worried as my wife suddenly had a very stiff right shoulder, and someone said it might be frozen shoulder.

    We came home and looked up on the internet and stumbled across your information. She is 50 and had an hysterectomy, a while ago.

    I must admit that we were getting quite worried, especially with the idea of visiting doctors, especially the neurologist.

    But fortunately for us, we knew a chiropractor at church and hence decided to visit her in stead of going to the hospital. Someone suggested we see an orthopaedic surgeon too.

    But so glad we visited the chiropractor, even though someone in this thread mentioned that their trip to a chiropractor was futile.

    This chiro did a nice massage and after checking her neck, shoulders and for mis-alignment, she said there's nothing to worry. Basically, chiropractors re align, the spine/vertebrae and release the veins which connect top the rest of the body.

    She said that since we came early it was easier, otherwise it would have taken a lot longer. Even now she suggested that we come for 3 sittings.

    Now my wife is feeling a lot better, after just a 20 minute session with the chiropractor.

  • Gaia37
    Gaia37 Lesley998

    Posted

    Thanks for this thread discussion. I have been searching online for information about “frozen shoulder”. Each poster's sharing of their experiences helps alot so much thanks to all! This is my experience and I know it works for me now and I know it will change in the future as we grow and age... and I am sure that what I propose will not work for others as each of us is unique with different needs and wants and abilities. So please be diligent in your research and know your risks and possible benefits before trying out anything here or anywhere.

    My case: 42 yr old female / have frozen shoulder and elbows / no medication HRT or other / cancer free

    I was at stage 4 (for my medical case – couldn't even keep my ovaries) and suffering from hypothyroidism too. I had total hysterectomy and both of my ovaries removed (July 2014) about 4months ago + had one of my thyroid glands removed in Aug 2014 (the other one was healthy so I kept it.)

    I had prepped myself for this phase of my life by learning all I can about menopause and thyroid problems beforehand... so I was expecting the side effects to hit immediate for my case... unlike most women who gradually go into menopause naturally. So imagine my greatest surprise when around September, I found myself getting stiff and painful shoulders and elbows. By mid Sept, each time I moved my shoulders or arms the pain was so bad... I could barely move my arms and any movement like turning in bed or moving/bending my arms up or down was really painful. It is like my shoulders and elbows were locked and cemented in place. It first started on my right and then sometimes both right and left at the same time. I had resolved myself never to have children and that was painful but I got over it... but I was not going to accept this painful side effect constantly! I knew that it was linked to my menopause and thyroid and if I wanted to live some kind of normal life.... I had better find some way to minimize its effects and fast.

    So the search began ... I didn't have a name for it and my initial search online found little information, but I found that yes.... frozen shoulder/joints is a side effect of menopause! And all my prep before my surgeries.... didn't even mention it – my doctors certainly didn't mention it. And this is major and should be included and talked about! Dryness and hair loss and etc... one can live with that … not being able to move and being in pain severly debilitates and disables anyone! I never heard of this 'frozen shoulder/joint pain' before! Not being able to raise my hand to wash my face or scratch my back or bend my arms without pain -how's that for walking around like having wooden arms? I didn't like it at all! And I promised myself to find a way to solve this problem and do it fast.

    So how am I now (12/8/14) ?

    My learning is still ongoing, and the good news is that I am much better. I went back to basics - tackling this with information, diet, stretching, sleep, and positive mindfulness. I am living with it on a day to day basis and have reclaimed about 98% of both my arm/shoulder/elbow movements and with no pain now. The mild stiffness is still there... but both shoulders and elbows are not frozen or locked in place. And it seems like I am stuck with this. I could never get back my past hormonal (estrogen etc.) levels. But I can at least deal with the basics positively and that helps a lot! And I am looking for a doctor that can help me with this for the long term.

    As with all things.... I believe in whole/overall wellness and health and not just focusing on the pain or area of pain.

    So here are the main ways that I used to reclaim my frozen shoulders and joints.

    Exercise: Stretching helps big time! When my shoulders and elbows were locked and painful... I refused to let them be. Each day through out the day... I moved them ever so much, and not when it is painful. Only as much as I can tolerate and working them toward their original mobility and posture. Once I was able, I have added walking, dancing and weight training to offset osteoperosis (I luv my dumbells) to my exercise routine since then.

    Positive Outlook on life + Meditation: If you are tense... the stress emotionally adds to the physical as well... so since I love to meditate, doing that adds to the overall benefits. (meditation/relaxing has been found to help reduce menopausal side effects.) A positive attitude to never let this or menopause be a death sentence helps big time... so I remind myself to smile and laugh a lot - enjoy life as much as I can.

    Diet: Healthy balanced meals that is good for menopausal women. I added lots of dairy, fresh veggies/fruits (I like my smoothies), white meat & fish espcially salmon, green tea, and fiber like my oatmeal. I take women One a Day multi vit daily too + Chia Seeds 1TBS daily (Chia has been shown as great for menopausal women, energy booster and folk medicine for joint health. ) *When my diet is good... my joints are behaving great, so diet can really help a lot. I don't eat out much... so it is mostly home foods that I have control over. Most have sweet tooth... I have salty tooth.. so cutting back on my sodium/salt has been good to my joints too.

    Sleep: My greatest challenge! I am so bad at this.. insomniac to boot even before I became menapausal!

    Medical Checkups: Still looking for a doctor that listens and is open to “frozen shoulder” + menapause as a reality and not as some imaginary thing. Checking on my thyroid functions too... thyroid disease can cause a variety of muscle or joint-related symptoms and the gland regulates horomone levels so it is good to check that it is working good for women pre or post menopause.

    *** And so... taken all together and worked on for the better … leads to Unfrozen Shoulders, elbows and other parts. When I am really good at managing all these areas... I have no pain and no locked or frozen shoulders or elbows. And yes... I did choose for one week, to eat junk, no stretching and not following my usual daily/weekly routine and I soon got frozen and painful joints. Not good at all! So I got back on my regimen and improving on it.. and again... I reclaimed my joints and with no pain now.

    Regarding Physical Therapy: For the many who have mentioned that physical therapy actually makes it worse, I think I might have an answer to how it might can work instead.

    I can only assume that the physical therapy was too much that is why it was not working. If the PT worked with the area and put too much stress on it, of course... it will get worse. I once tried to exercise – arm movements when my shoulders were frozen... and yes... the pain increased a lot and the area got frozen further down the arms the next day. I modified my exercise and again... only worked on the shoulders first, slowly moving them one way and another each time and slowly. As much I can without the pain. The pain is your clue. That is why stretching the muscles little by little without/little pain (as much as you can slowly and over time... works each time I have had frozen shoulders/elbows. I was able to reclaim my mobility by working with my body and not overstressing it too much. It is a delicate balance that you and your Physical therapist should work together to find the best way to help you, not against you. With this strategy, I can see PT as working and not making your case worse.

    ***The most important thing that I have learned through my ordeal, is that as long as I have breath and can think, I am in control. And I can live with my menopause with as much health and joy regardless of what others may say. I can make a difference in my life by doing what works for me by taking clues and information that others offer and try … until something clicks.

    I hope that my very long post has contributed postively (thanks for reading this far!) ... if it only helps one person, I am happy. And this is my small way of contributing back to all the helpful posts that I have read here and elsewhere online. Pain is not something that we must bear with... we can always find at least support in our search for a way to alleviate or cure it. You are not alone!

    • MJTh
      MJTh Gaia37

      Posted

      thanks Gaia for all you enthusiasm and positivity.  My Dr. refuses to believe that FS has anything to do ith hormones. he insists I have done something to irritate the joint. He mentions that it could be something subtle that I did while sleeping even. I have formulated my own oppinion which seems to fit in with your own experience.  I believe hormones play a small part indeed. as we go through menopause we certainly do loose joint lubrication. So yes hormones certainly do play a part. But we also tend to naturally stiffen and loose our flexibility we had when young. Diet also plays a big part. I too like my smoothies and I take turmeric and ginger every day. I stopped with multi vitamins only because I developed a kidney stone (long story differnt forum). I was very against PT as my first FS was a nightmare with PT. But on advice of my Dr. I tried again after my 3rd FS began. In fact it has worked somewhat this time. I now understand that  I need to ensure my shoulders are strengthend. Simple things like carrying a heavy grocery bag sets off shoulder inflamation because my joints lack the lubrication of my younger days. So if I do daily stretching exercises this has been enough to keep the FS at bay. (cross fingers) It does not mean my shoulders don't get sore and stiff. they surely do, but they are not freezing now ( 1 year and counting).
    • james80413
      james80413 MJTh

      Posted

      MJth, your doctor is right that it has nothing to do with hormones. Hormones don't just appear ay age 40 to 60, and men get frozen shoulders without hormones. Your doctor is wrong that you did something to the joint. If that were true then frozen shoulders would be rampant in young children and the dodery like me! It has nothing to do with joint lubrication, the frozen shoulder is always fully lubricacted. It has nothing to do with diet, if so we would all get it at one time or the other. You cannot have three frozen shoulders unless you have three arms. Once in each shoulder and no more. On these posts you wil hear of many cures and of therapies that help. Lucky is the practitioner to whom the patient goes to when it is the day the freezing stops. Frozen shoulders all get better, well not all but the true figure is 95%.

      The trouble is that FS is badly diagnosed but it is the name most remembered and endeared to patients. I asked my own GP why this is and his and he told me it was both fashion and easier to remember than say an acute subdeltoid bursitis.

      What we know is from the latest in cutting edge medical science is that freezing arthritis is genetic and runs in families. Pyronies disease and dupuytrens contracture are caused by the same gene but they don't fully resolve. I have more information on page 7 of frozen shoulder- choices of treatment.

    • MJTh
      MJTh james80413

      Posted

      Hi James,

      That's very interesting. I am a bit confused though. You said you cannot get FS more than once. But I have had it in my right (very bad case) Then 2+ years later in my left. Then about a year+ later again in in my left, The last time I sought help very early though. All the pains and just a small himt ofg locking. I had two injections and PT and it did not freeze solid like the former times. Are you saying it is not FS but is some sort of arthritis or bursitis? No one in my familiy has ever had this and I am the youngest of 9. I am looking for your page 7 post. My only goal is to do everything possible to prevent this from happening again.

    • Oliveria
      Oliveria james80413

      Posted

      Once again James, when are you going to stop adenying peoples believes..It really upsets me to see you once again dismissing peoples feelings.

      Please stop, stop, stop....you are not a woman so yoy can not feel the correlation between frozen shoulder or joints, with menopause.

      You are not a female frozen shouldet sufferer, not a doctor not an expert in frozen shoulder.

      Please "STOP" misleading with your assumptions.

    • james80413
      james80413 Oliveria

      Posted

      Hi nicoryan,

      Your contribution is as incisive and as evidence based as ever.

      James

    • margofandango
      margofandango james80413

      Posted

      What you don't seem to get James is that most of us on this site have been and feel very let down by current medical knowledge, diiagnosis and treatment of Frozen Shoulder. I have had double FS for almost three years. Because it was in both arms simultaniously (I was locked solid), FOUR docs didn't pick it up and didn't even offer me pain relief. In desperation I went to an Osteopath who EXAMINED me and within 2 mins he diagnosed it.  The very painful manipulation treatment over quite a short time brought major improvement to movement and pain relief.  It has probaby cost me about £3,000 in fees and I still see him about once every three weeks. It was worth every penny. If he had started earlier, the treatment would have been easier to treat. As far as I am concerned medical knowledge and facts and figures didn't help me.  In fact, my Osteopath (30 years experience) only treated one arm for the first 6 months and miraculously (to me, anyway) the other shoulder improved, which he said may happen but it is very rare.  Most sufferers of FS are women, most around menopausal age. I was just at the end of menopause with no HRT. Why don't doctors even consider the link. The same reason midwives can't officially tell breast feeding mums to line their bras with savoy cabbage leaves to treat mastitis. You can poo poo the idea. Butoff the record good midwives do recommend it in the UK and it works. Maybe not scientific enough for you but then that's women helping women for you!
    • james80413
      james80413 margofandango

      Posted

      Margofandango,

      but I know exactly how you feel about being let down but not by current medical knowledge. Current medical knowledge regarding any shoulder condition takes time and knowledge of the patients history age anatomy and the physiology and pathology of the condition. A shoulder is either the capsule of the joint or something else eg bursa tendon muscle etc. looking at some old papers on the web it takes 12 passive movements, 12 resisted movements and 12 active movements to begin to diagnose a shoulder. The average GP has supposedly 6 minutes to diagnose a condition, how about that. What really surprises me is the tales of physiotherapy treatments dished out and the awful pain that patients suffer, all this from a pro with a masters degree. I have asked several times but with no avail for a patient to bring their PT to help out with explanations.Your osteopath was certainly fast with her diagnosis. How about the 12 12 12. Of course womens menopausal age matches up with FS as does thyroid diabetes and deteriorating sight. Now how  about the savoy leaves, that is definitely new to me. Fortunately we being in our 80s will have little use for that interesting bit of information.

       

    • margofandango
      margofandango james80413

      Posted

      That's the problem James, the doctors didn't even attempt to examine me. Just sent me for lots of blood tests and xrays. I forgot to mention one doctor at the hospital said I had cervical ribs when he looked at the xray and then didn't bother letting my GP know.  At one point I sat in tears in his surgery as I couldn't stand the pain any longer, hadn't slept for months, couldn't move and all he did was refer me for an appointment with a rheumatoid specialist four months later. Thankfully by then I had already started seeing the Osteopath but I went along anyway and the specialist confirmed bi-lateral encapsulitis and would have given me steroid injections but I had already been through the worst of it with the Osteopath and felt I was on the mend. It has left me very distrustful of Doctors now.  I am sorry to hear that you have been through this in your 80's.  what is 12 12 12 btw. I haven't a clue.  I like to sleep on my back with my arms outstretched over my head now, odd but it does make my shoulders feel relaxed. smile
    • james80413
      james80413 margofandango

      Posted

      Hi

      i was referring to the 12 movements  active passive and resisted. now wondering if anyone completed this on you. A patient has to educate themselves these days. In the days of yore the doctor examined you, got a diagnosis and then looked at the X-rays. Now it's six minutes exam and the diagnosis made often from the MRI or CAT scan. I have never had a frozen shoulder but have suffered some serious shoulder injuries, the last on a couple of years ago which has almost fully resolved except for some grinding.doctors lack training in musculoskeletal injuries exercise and nutrition. Doctors are trained  well in treating very sick people which as it should be. Physiotherapists should be able to look after people like yourself. 

      If I have any medical problem which thankfully is rare I make sure I know as much as I can. Makes a huge difference to an examination.

    • margofandango
      margofandango james80413

      Posted

      I know now, the doctor at the hospital who said I had Cervical ribs did all those movements & xray. My osteopath held the shoulder joint and carried out that exam. He said that when the shoulder joint is manipulated the under general they can cause more damage as it's easy to move the joint too far.  But if done over time while awake, he knew how far to take it without causing any damage. It was so painful at the time and I debated whether to continue but the results started to show after a few weeks and I am glad I did. Saved me from beiing frozen for two years. smile
  • margofandango
    margofandango Lesley998

    Posted

    Hi Ladies,

    Just a message to say it's been three years since my Frozen shoulder really took hold. I was almost pain free for about four or five months after lots of Osteopath treatment.  I started using a laptop again as my old PC died on me and surprise surprise I am getting tghtening around my neck and throat.  Stay OFF the LAPTOP for anything more than necessary as I am sure the angle and restriction on your arm movement agravates the FS and sets recovery back.

    • Sheila_J
      Sheila_J margofandango

      Posted

      My PT gave me a good tip when using the laptop.  I put it on the edge of the table and make sure my elbows are down, shoulders back and relaxed.  Makes a big difference.  My right shoulder finally healed about 93%.  My left is maybe 55% there.  The worst if over.  I believe it is hormonal.  I still havn't gotton on hormones - stupid!  I tried a couple of times but lost the pack once and the 1st time my doc made the mistake of telling me I didnt need them... I have been over 3 years between both arms!  But I am no longer living a nightmare.  Now its just a typical frozen shoulder - nothing life ruining.  For 2 years I was losing my mind but now I'm just in pain like an injury type pain.  I can handle that any day compared to the nightmare I experienced not sleeping and not being able to do anything at all without labor/like pain!
  • Sheila_J
    Sheila_J Lesley998

    Posted

    OH no! We have someone on this forum causing fights when people are suffering so severely that their lives have completely fallen apart, changed in so many ways that cant be described! I am so sorry for any of you still in the worst part of this horrible suffering - who have read this guys comments!  

    PLEASE for your sake do not read such comments!  The energy required to get through life with frozen shoulder at its worst is unbearable and there is no room for anyone who makes it worse.

    If you begin to read a comment that appears to be unsupportive or incorrect just dont finish reading the comment.  

    I think I would have lost my mind if I didnt have this forum at my worst.  There were only suscribers in similar situations on it and it helped to know I wasnt alone while my friends and family had no idea the extent of the suffering.

    I used to research for hours until 3 in the morning because trying to sleep was something I feared nightly because it was inevitable to be an excruciating effort, and this forum was helpful emotionally for me.

    DONT READ ANYONES ENTRY WHO IS NOT HELPFUL! YOU NEED SUPPORT!

    • lori73442
      lori73442 Sheila_J

      Posted

      You said that well. We need support not horror stories. I saw someone post on gall bladder removal who never had it done and kept talking about horror stories they read about having the surgery. I had no issues with my removal.

      Now to get my shoulder fixed. Sick of the pain. I have therapy today first one. Nervoius but at least I got to know her when my daughter dislocateher knee and sprained her ankle. So she knows me and I know her. Hate to say to her that my daughters dad did this to me. I get support from my daughter. Support from husband when he feels like it. No he never hurt me before or since. He has depresion. Life is very hard right noe, last two years.

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