Morning Anxiety : Could it be a mini withdrawal?

I think everyone's a little different in how their body processes the medication.

I was surprised to start brain zaps today after pushing back the medication by only a few hours, a lot of people report that particular withdrawal symptom after days, not hours.

I'll carry on and will report back just in case anyone finds it useful.

Seems to be a mixed bag with that, some people find it's better, some worse.

When I used to take it in the evening I found that I fell asleep easily but always woke up about 4 hours later but seemed to be not too bad at falling asleep again.

When I took it in the morning at the start it made me really drowsy so I switched to evenings for a while, then back to mornings once the extreme drowsiness had reduced.

To put another way, I wonder if the lower amount of drug in the system coming up to 24 hours is making the anxiety a bit worse that it would be otherwise.

I guess what I aim to find out is whether the time I'm due the medication corresponding with the naturally high cortisol is unhelpful.

The half life is interesting, I believe it's an exponential curve, rather than linear, so it doesn't fall steadily but instead falls quicker (from its peak around 4 hours) at the start.

Of course it may be different for me than others, there's no one size fits all, it would seem.

Odd to have felt improved mood this morning too, haven't had that for a while! 😃

Mmm ... I doubt a lower amount makes you more susceptible to morning anxiety - you get it no matter what dose you take 😦

Another thing that probably contributes to morning anxiety:

Anxiety is a cycle we become trapped in - the fear of anxiety keeps it running - anxiety creates intrusive thoughts / ruminating / constant head chatter and self analysis, and this constant thinking in turn creates even more anxiety etc. One feeds the other.

Often the only escape from the racing mind is when you sleep, and it’s back immediately the second you open your eyes in the morning, and as this fuels anxiety it’s no wonder it starts all over again each morning with a jolt and the realisation you’ve another day to get through. Hence the sinking feeling.

Having a better mood could indicate recovery as thats how it works - good periods mixed with bad.

But, there's no harm in trying a different time of day - see if it suits you better 😉 x

The morning anxiety will hit no matter what, it'd just be nice to shave 10% (or even 1%) off it so I think it's worth a try.

Increased anxiety is listed as a side effect of withdrawing, not surprising as anything that changes the chemical levels seems to affect it!

I am still surprised that I got brain zaps only a few hours after my dose was due, that seems very early to me but the same thing happened a few years ago with Sertraline.

The best thing to do is to accept it’s going to happen, relax towards it, don’t head chatter about it, know it will go, know that however it feels in the morning it isn’t an indication to how the rest of the day will turn out. Fighting and running from anxiety is the worst thing to do.

I used to take my meds in the mornings and if I forgot and had gone out, about midday I’d start to feel nauseous, dizzy, a bit buzzy and get a headache. These meds hang onto your Serotonin and need continuity, and any fluctuations (especially missing meds) and your body will grumble.

It won’t hurt at all to experiment with different times of the day to see if it helps 😉

Let us know how it goes!

K x

Are you still taking 5 HTP to help how long after stopping meds did you start taking it. I'm going wean off as meds causing more problems than they are solving for me personally after several months trying 2 different ones. Possibly because mine caused by zopiclone withdrawal not pre existing condition like most people on here as know they help lot of people.

Hi Lemanna

Sorry I’ve not got round to answering your pm’s ......

I weaned down from 20mg to 1.25mg Citalopram over a year first and as soon as that stopped I switched straight to 5-HTP and l-tyrosine (which is needed too). But no, I’m not taking 5-HTP either now and haven’t for a while, and am not taking anything anymore as no longer have anxiety (oh, except regular Vitamins for general health). I had been fully recovered for 16 years on the meds before I came off too.

It doesn’t matter how anxiety starts - anxiety isn’t pre existing, it has to start somewhere and that can be from stress, trauma, medical conditions (can lead to trauma), medication (can cause stress / trauma), life experience (leading to stress / trauma) ........ but no matter the path that leads us here, once anxiety starts we all fall into the same trap of fearing anxiety itself, fearing the side effects, trying to avoid the feelings and experiences from it, running from it, trying to supress it, constantly chatting with the head chatter, constantly searching for answers, looking for that elusive relief or cure from anxiety - all of these in turn lead to more anxiety (feeding itself) - and so anxiety is all the same, no matter how it starts and albeit we all have our own personal fears to bear born from life or the anxiety itself.

When I was ill I didn’t want to hear that, because I said ah yes, but mine is different (it wasn’t) and continued down the path of searching, fighting and supressing which I did for years. I thought my thoughts and fears were unique and nobody could help me (both statements incorrect), because anxiety tells you that, anxiety lies to you and makes you believe you can’t do this - but no matter what the cause, what the fears, what guises anxiety takes on, they are all fed by our fear of anxiety itself (the fear of fear), and they’re all ‘fixable’. And like me, so many people say ah yes, but my fear is different ........

My thoughts are that the actual Zoplicone withdrawal has since passed but the result is you’re now left dealing with the afterburn ..... which is anxiety. There are no traces of Zoplicone meds left in your body so they’re not interfering with the SSRI’s or any other recovery methods. As said, once anxiety starts we’re all in the same boat.

Sorry, went off an a tangent there ....... but am just trying to help you in other ways which is difficult for us all to believe as anxiety tells you otherwise. Remember also, the books aren’t meant to give you relief but are to be worked with, and you will put yourself into situations which can make you feel uncomfortable, but this is leading you through it, not trying to avoid it which just reinforces anxiety.

Are you thinking of coming off meds because you aren’t recovering? Have you ever tried Tri-cyclic meds or SNRI’s (there’s many others too) as these are different classes of anti-depressants and work similar to SSRI’s.

Just thinking of others before you consider 5-HTP.

Thanks for replying. Have spoken few times to helpline run by people who were in my position and got couple books written by people who came off meds all say a year into withdrawal from zopiclone is still early days most don't recover until 2nd year takes lot longer than Anti depressant withdrawal and intrusive thoughts common symptom. Just case after several months feel lit worse than when I started them and even given me ocd type symptoms never had before starting them. Least I tried them have accept don't work for everyone the forums on benzo withdrawal all advise against taking them. Started weaning off taking 3/4 tablet will then gradually cut down. Current situation made things worse as had ve street party at safe distance today and felt fine as bit of normal life. Unfortunatel coming off sleeping tablets is whole different ball game to AD even though I know some have problems with them as well. Will try the 5htp anyway.

And what does the Zoplicone helpline or the books suggest you do?

So if your anxiety is different to everyone else’s and the thoughts are due solely to the Zoplicone withdrawal which lasts 2 years and not the anxiety, then what will taking SSRI’s achieve? Isn’t this something then that you have to sit out for the 2 years?

But if you feel Citalopram gives you issues then yes, try 5-HTP.

When you hit rock bottom and don't want to be here anymore you try anything.. They all advise against taking anti depressants although many people do try them as you feel desperate for some sort of life. It probably is general anxiety now as the sertraline triggered OCD type compulsions that never had before. It is hard to to explain but I was functioning very well before I stopped the zopiclone never had any anxiety, whereas most people are already suffering with anxiety as a reason for taking AD. I truly wish they had helped as the future looks bleak, but even my husband has commented I seem to have been worse since starting them.

So were you not suffering with anxiety when you started anti-depressants? Why did the doctor start you on them? Wondering what symptoms you had at the time 😉

I’ve read some people are even prescribed them for pain and for sleep issues too, which is surprising considering they cause sleep issues at first 😮

Same here - before anxiety hit me I was a happy go lucky person and then my life changed.

I know that desperation only too well and suffered it for 16 years - I reached the edge many times and didn’t want to go on. There was no internet back then, so was completely alone and never spoke to a living sole all those years about how I felt, except the doctors. Double blow for me was when my son went through exactly the same 5 years ago - the pain of that is indescribable. He recovered with our help.

It doesn’t matter though what started your anxiety, whether it was stress, a medical complaint, trauma, medicine, shock ....... the cause is irrelevant and we all follow the same path, and the path to recovery is the same regardless of what personal fears and worries we all have.

Btw I got my 5-HTP from and remember to add in the l-tyrosine too - I used to get both from Holland & Barrett.

No wouldn't say I had anxiety was going out doing normal stuff just had intrusive thoughts about might have harmed people had gradually got worse. They advise you switch to diazapam initially to help with zopiclone withdrawal but refused give me any. Just got told if you can't sleep have to take an SSRI. Tried SSRI as recommended for intrusive thoughts, the sertraline really messed me up gave me more OCD type symptoms more compulsions. I just can't seem to take a normal dose and they have intensified lot since starting meds. Whatever I do seem wrong thing! Im cutting down to 7.5mg then will gradually reduce. I started the cit this time when lockdown started which has def made things worse. Did have similar years ago when in a stressful job and took seroxat which helped really quickly but not trying anything else as seems to add to the problems.

ocd of wanting to hurt some one is an anxiety disorder.why didnt you take seroxat again??

It's a commonly listed withdrawal symptom from z drugs or benzos caused by stopping them it affects the GABBA receptors in the brain causing the thoughts, I didn't have anxiety when it started. Citalopram is what is recommended for intrusive thoughts so took that. Have noticed very slight improved in some things today since lowering dose so imagine once I stop should improve..

Intrusive thoughts are a side effect of anxiety - I had similar thoughts too of harming.

That’s a shame you were given this SSRI for sleep issues and equally a shame you didn’t go back onto Seroxat as that agreed with you. Strangely Seroxat is the one that didn’t agree with me - isn’t is odd how different meds affect different people 😕

If you’ve seen slight improvements today since lowering, then why don’t you stay there for now? You know there is always that yo-yoing when you start meds.

hate to say this but with every reduction i always feel better before i go worse, hope that isnt the case for you.

Roughly how long does the good bit last before the rough bit?

Thanks 🙂

Definitely wasnt anxiety to start with that has just come since taking the meds. Lowering dose previously seemed to ease things but not actually imptove anything long term. The dose is so low can't see will actually make any difference but going up to effective dose just racks up symptoms so catch 22. I'll continue weaning off slowly as can't see point staying on something that's making me feel worse.

iI know you've had lot problems with withdrawal but I've found lowering dose eases symptoms even with the awful sertraline but just can't tolerate dose high enough to improve things significantly. The AD worked years ago but that was depression unfortunately hasn't helped this time with the intrusive thoughts just case they work well for many people but not for everyone.

why do you keep insisting that lower doses dont work.?my physchiatrist has many patients fully recover on five milligrams of celexa.

for me it was about a week!

just have a plan in mind and stick to it as your body and brain have been through alot!

Thanks for the reply, guess I'm well and truly in the rough bit then!

I'm guessing around a week to see if it settles, fingers crossed!

This is what I'm wondering and also another reason why I've reduced - I had a very strong reaction to 5mg when starting so wonder if actually it would have been enough.

If only we knew if we were a 5mg person or a 40mg person!

All this trial and error takes so long!

Saw an interesting paper that shows the serotonin transporter (SERT) for different doses of various SSRIs including Citalopram - basically in the study Cit hits 80% occupancy at around 20mg but doesn't increase much above that. The curve also shows that the occupancy rises much faster at lower doses which might explain why tapering from small doses is often the hardest.

tell me about it .i recovered on ten and still on ten milligrams .and it took me 8 long months.

I'm glad you found 'your dose' though 😉

Because 20mg is the recommend therauptic dose that's why. Having researched on line people with OCD type symptoms only tend to recover on higher doses. Don't think you had mental symptoms from what I remember so maybe it's more effective with physical symptoms at lower doses. From reading other posts most people only tend to recover once they increase to 20mg if they have mental symptoms I'll continue to reduce anyway it's not worth arguing about.

no one is arguing you have been suffering for so long .and no advise on here is going to make you feel any better.sorry to tell you.take care .

thanks charlie.

i have terrible ocd and 10mgs calmed that, thats about the only positive thing it did though, and now im withdrawing its amplified massively!

Think it's just a case everyone is different meds work very well for lot people but don't help everyone you you can't generalise. 10mg did nothing for me and I think after trying meds for 6 months it's long enough to leave waiting for them to help. If they hadn't made me feel lot worse would have persevered but just given me more symptoms. Hopefully once I'm off will improve hope you soon feel better anyway.

i actually think youre doing the right thing just think your body etc may take a while to settle.

Thanks seem to have lot of negative responses insisting it's anxiety. There is a post from a lady having awful symptoms from SSRI luckily I'm not as bad as her , I accept they are a godsend for lot of people but for some of us they can actually make things worse, I'll do gradual withdrawal hope won't be too bad. Lockdown hasn't helped especially all the confusing advice you get from government!

Go steady, I've dropped from 10mg to 7.5mg and feel terrible, hopefully it won't affect you like this.

Will do I dropped to 7.5 about 5 days ago last couple days felt very slightly better apart from really bad headaches so hopefully will continue. Will drop 2.5 mg each time every few weeks. Felt pretty rough on them anyway. Are you planning to stop ? Everyone's reaction seems to be different I just couldn't take a high enough dose. Hope you soon improve very trial and error!

I really don't know, I guess I'll take one step at a time and see. I think I ended up here due to Mirtazapine withdrawal, particularly incredible insomnia which sent anxiety sky-rocketing. Thing is, it's a catch-22 sleep and anxiety they affect each other.

Nobody knows why these things work for half the people and not for the rest, I saw a recent paper demonstrating that people with Social Anxiety actually have higher levels of serotonin so increasing it for them is probably unhelpful.

at least we can walk more as of tomorrow 😃

Hi Katie

Just a quick question,if you dont mind.

I'm sensitive to brand changes,found 2 now that i can handle & 2 brands i cant.

Saturday i took the new brand & it made me very sleepy,migraine & feeling like i hadn't taken anything.

The following day (Sunday morning)

I took my usual brand,Sunday eve i had a panic attack which i haven't had since starting Citalopram 6mths ago.

Still on my usual brand but having high anxiety,sweating & feeling low mood depressed again.

Is this normal & have i got to wait for my usual brand to settle again?

Many thanks x

Hi Kym

Sorry, didn’t see your message.

Are you taking a mix of brands, or had one lot finished and you started a new pack which was the old brand?

It might be you suit both brands, but may be that it affects you if they’re mixed? Just a thought …..

How are things now? Have they settled?

hi @katecogs

Things have settled for now thank you.

It were that 1 pack had finished,so i started a new pack which were a different brand.

My doctor is keeping me to 1 brand now Aurobindo,so hopefully i can keep progressing to recovery.

8months in now but dont feel there yet x

That's good you found out the cause and that you'll be kept on the one brand. Keep on the same meds, same dose for a while yet - let it all settle. It should improve.

K x

Tbh i thought i would have saw more improvement in myself after 8 months & i wouldn't be getting low mood/ anxiety & negative thoughts but i am. x

What dose do you take Kym? And have you been on that dose for 8 months or worked up to it?

Do you get any relief at all - whether its a few days here and there or even a few hours?

It could be altering your dose may help. Some people even find lowering their dose does the trick, so its not always more.

20mg & have done so from the start.

I do get relief,sometimes days sometimes weeks but not everyday

Hi Kym

That’s what I did too - I took 20mg from the start and never took anything higher either.

It does sound like the meds are working because you’re getting some relief, even though its sparodic.

Everybody takes different times to recover - some feel better at 3 months, others much longer. It took me 6 months, and know some take even longer.

I think just keep on with the known brand that suits you and keep going longer. The good days / weeks should get longer and slowly replace the bad days.

I’ll pm you too.