Non-Invasive BPH Treatments I'm considering

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Please forgive the length of this but if you take the time to read it, I'm sure you will be able to relate.

60 years old.  Very fit, very active, very athletic.  I weigh 5 pounds more today than I did as a senior in High School.  I exercise, eat right, don't smoke, used to drink a glass of wine once every 3 days or so but can't even do that anymore without it causing urinary difficulties.  I've been dealing with BPH symptoms seemingly since time began.  I have not slept 8 hours a night for 30 years or more except for one night on February 23, 2010, from pure exhaustion, 3 days after my Mom died.  I don't know what it feels like to not feel like I don't have to urinate.  I have an enlarged prostate.  Who doesn't. I have tried Saw palmetto, Beta Sitosterol, Urolxitrol, Tamsulosin, Half a tab of Cialis daily, I've tried prostate magic pills, blended mixtures of the world's best of the best.  Swedish Flower, Rye Grass, this that, that, this. . .I still have BPH but the healthy food store owners are driving new cars thanks to me.  I'm done with pills, pills and more pills.  I'm done with side effects and lightheadedness, etc. I've become my grandparents with all the medications laying around.  I hate it.  I no longer know what it feels like to feel normal.

I have done endless research, I have been to multiple urologists, I have had ultrasounds, cystoscopies, rectal ultrasounds, uroflow tests, urodynamic tests, etc., etc.  Urologists tell you, "Hey, we'll just go in and clean you out, remove some tissue and you'll be like new."  The fact that they mention all of this so casually and nonchalantly is amazing to me.  We are men.  Men are visual, physical creatures.  We are used to a sexual experience where there is a result of our gun going off.  If you get a standard TURP, you will be shooting blanks forever.  This is insane.  Doctors act like this is no big deal, everything will feel the same.  No you won't.  It will NEVER be the same.  You're BROKEN.  You have lost a bodily function that if I am correct has (along with the help of a female partner) been creating the human race since a man first discovered his erection.  Having a ream job TURP is like going to a rock concert and not being able to hear anything.  They call the old fashioned TURP the ‘Gold Standard’?  You have to be kidding me.  It’s more like the kiss of sexual death to anybody that goes through it.  It butchers you.  I know men that have had to seek counseling they were so depressed after having a standard TURP.

I find it unimaginable and absolutely hard to believe that after endless decades of research, there is still not a reasonable and non life changing treatment for BPH, the most common problem that men face.  

Anyway, after years of my research, waiting and waiting for something wonderful to come along that will revolutionize how we treat this miserable part of a man’s life, I find that I can not wait any longer.  Constant UTIs (Urinary Tract Infections), long regimens of antibiotics, plus the daily Flomax, Cialis, etc.  I’m sick of the whole thing.  Now I have some thickening on my bladder wall and some trebeculations.

I am considering one of two or a possible combination of both to treat my BPH.  One is the A PKTM TURP which uses lower-voltage energy to vaporize and cut away the portion of the prostate that is enlarged and causing your symptoms.  The lower-voltage PKTM Technology, combined with the safety of operating in saline, results in a safer, faster and more effective procedure.  This procedure is also known as a ‘Gyrus, bipolar procedure.  No, not bipolar like my ex-wife, this is the good kind. 

Basically it is an Electrovaporization of the prostate with the Gyrus device.  The reason there tends to be less complications is that the surgeon can be more precise with what is removed and what is left alone.  There is also a saline solution that is used throughout the procedure.

I’ve been told and I’ve learned through my research that there is a 10-15% chance for retrograde ejaculation with this procedure, recover time is much shorter, less bleeding and very little chance, if any for ED.  Those are fairly good odds for a good outcome compared to Las Vegas where your chance for a bad outcome is about 99%.  It's still a chance but if I don't do something soon, I will be facing worse problems with my bladder, kidneys, etc.  I am still sexually active so would like to preserve that functionality.

If there is anyone out there that has had a Gyrus procedure, please reply to me with your comments.

The other procedure that everyone seems to be talking about is the UroLift.  Obviously this procedure is the least invasive one there is with eseentially no tissure being removed but there is simply not enough data yet with such a new treatment option.  The idea is great. Insert a device into the urethra, the insert and deposit some small anchors through and behind the prostate wall and tether some others on the inside urethra side and voila - you have an opening held open by stainless steel tabs and thread.  Sounds pretty darn good.  but. . . .I’m not sure anyone can convince me that you won’t be able to feel these foreign objects as you move around in (and around) such a sensitive gland.  The other thing I don’t get from a mechanical standpoint. . . .there are anchors on both ends of a surgical thread, what’s to keep the inner anchors from pulling the outer ones inward, thus closing off the urethra?  Am I missing something?  Then there’s the issue of the prostate which will continue to grow and grow over time.  How long will it take until it overwhelms the anchors or pulls through - or worse.  Is there anyway to remove something that resembles a spring-wing wall molly bolt that has been (essentially) blindly placed through your prostate wall?  The other question is that it is an implant situation so will the body reject it?

Hey.  I am all for doing something to relieve my BPH and see what it’s like to maybe sleep through the night and see what it feels like to urinate without having to pack a suitcase for the bathroom trip(s) but there’s a reason that there is a dozen (or more) different procedures for BPH on the market right now.  It’s because men are demanding better options.  All the the procedures claim to be the best invention since canned peas but the reality is that whether you scrape it, burn it, electrocute it, laser it, vaporize it, bake it, auger it, pulverize it, ream it, etc., it still destroys what it is to be a man.

If anyone has had the UroLift (or the Gyrus procedure) please reply and help me make a more informed decision and also to get the word out to our fellow BPH sufferers out there.  Maybe through our words and actions, we can some day create a vaccine or at least a completely non-invasive out patient solution.  Thank you for taking the time to read my long call for help.  I sincerely look forward to any thoughts you may have.

David

 

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  • Posted

    Hi David

    I had the traditional TURP nearly 3 months ago and my main concern apart from a blackout ,due to a blocked urethra, the night I was realeased from hospital (which could have been fatal as it was in my bathroom /toilet with a tiled floor), and the 12 hrs of trying to urinate with a blocked penis and having dizzy,nausea spells, until eventually a nurse broke the blockage with a catheter 12 hrs after the blackout. Now the main ussue is that there is no orgasm during sex ,there is no semen, and it is a strange uncomfortable feeling. On hindsight I should have reseasched and enquired about the Laser or the latest TURPi technique ( which uses electric current and saline to clean and open the urinary tract and clean the prostate. Regrards Peter

    • Posted

      To all of the great people who have replied to my discussion - I thank you.

      To answer JimJames - I swear that I saw the 10-15% number for RE someplace in my research but I cannot find the article.

      To answer derek76 - You are correct, the overall bipolar/Gyrus procedure has been around since around 2000 and much like all of the other devices/procedures, they have gotten better over time along with the doctors getting better at using said devices.

      To answer to Rontexan - I studied the Holep procedure and actually contactyed the Mayo Clinic to ask them to send me information.  (Believe me, when I say I've studied and researched this stuff, I RESEARCHED this stuff).  From what I could learn from people who had the Holep, they seemed to indicate that when they had an orgasm, the ejaculate didn't go anywhere, not back into the bladder and not out through the penis.  It just came out and landed in pergatory and that the feeling was non existent.  In other words, there wasn't a sensation of ejaculate rushing into the bladder like a standard RE from medications, etc. or out through the penis.  I certainly don't have any way of substantiating these facts but that's what I read.

      I plan on having the Gyrus procedure within the next few weeks.  Interstingly enough, I received a call from the doctor office that does the UriLift today and they said they could see me next week instead of on the 21st.  I thought I would reconsider and at least go and see what the guy has to say.  One thing is for sure, I have a ton of questions for him all printed out. 

      I promise to let everyone know what goes on during my journey - good or bad and will do my best to stay up to date.  Again, I would love to hear from more people that have had either the Bipolar/Gyrus or a UroLift.

      To learn more about the Bipolar/Gyrus procedure you can click on here:

      http://urologytimes.modernmedicine.com/urology-times/news/modernmedicine/modern-medicine-news/bipolar-transurethral-resection-prostate-redu?page=full

      Thanks again for keeping the flame of hope burning for all of us.

       

    • Posted

      @David: To answer JimJames - I swear that I saw the 10-15% number for RE someplace in my research but I cannot find the article.

      ------------------------------

      For someone who has prided themselves several times in this thread on their extensive research, I find your response a bit, um, "lacking" for choice of better words. Especially in light of the fact that you have made retro ejaculation a major point several times as to why you are going with Gyrus.

      I will post the link in a follow-up post (posts with links often get held up for moderation here) but for anyone who wants to see some research right away, simply google " Bipolar transurethral resection of the prostate reduces complications Urology Times"

      And while the article is favorable to the procedure, I quote: "...None of the patients showed post-surgical incontinence; however, all of the patients reported retrograde ejaculation, which is very important to note," Dr. Giulianelli said.

      So that's 100% retro ejaculation with this study. To be fair, I've read elsewhere a figure around 50%, but both are a far cry from the 10-15% figure you seem to remember from somewhere.

      Not saying you shouldn't have the operation, and certainly many will be following your outcome if you do, but if it were me -- and if retro ejaculation was of such prime importance -- I would get some hard research evidence on that 10-15% figure that you have posted.

      Jim

    • Posted

      David,

      I was about to post a link to the article that states 100% retro ejaculation for the Bipolar/Gyrus procedure, but it seems that you already posted the same link! If you re-read the article you posted you will see that the figure is 100%, not 10-15%.

      Jim

    • Posted

      When I was on Avodart (worst drug in the world for sex life) I not only couldn't even have a climax I just kept going and going and going like the energizer bunny but to no avail.  Iam so glad Iam off that castration drug.
    • Posted

      As far as I can tell I think the gyrus and the plasma button turp are basically the same thing.  I YouTubed them and they appear to be one in the same procedure.  As I said previously "CS123" had the plasma button turp and he said he was "extremely happy" with the outcome.
    • Posted

      In the UK many urologists are advising post operative patients to take Avodart to avoid future prostate growth and a future procedure.

      When my surgeon suggested it last year at the follow up after my second laser procedure I asked if he thought that mine would grow that much in my lifetime. He glanced at my notes and said 'Perhaps not'. I was 79 at the time. 

       

    • Posted

      Well, we often hear that we are all different and I'll have to reiterate that fact. I had RE from Meds before the Holep, but there was no sensation of ejaculate flowing backward at all. Simply not flowing at all but the sensation was still there and is now still the same feeling as before Holep.

      I have heard nowhere else over the last four months or so that the sensation was just non-existent with RE.  I have to call "BS" on that one. I don't believe it.  

    • Posted

      Hi Ron

      I had the same, the medications (Tamsulosin and finesteride) gave me RE and now after the traditional TURP operation there is no semen, no ejaculation ,no orgasm, all Kapout.

      Peter

    • Posted

      To Ron and Peter;  I can say that the only "good thing" that came out of my PAE is that Iam now completely off the Tamsulosin and Avodart which by the way is the brand name of finesteride.  Anyway, to make a long story short I do now have a decent sex life and for the first time in 2 years Iam happy to say that I have a "beautiful and wonderful Climax".  As they use to say when you were a kid, I actually "shoot the wad" and it really feels good again.  Iam sure in my future at some point I probably will end up getting a plasma button turp like CS123 had but for now Iam going to enjoy life a little bit.  I still get up at night to go to the bathroom but have learned to control it somewhat by limiting my liquids after 4pm.  I would like to say that all you guys are Great. 
    • Posted

      Chuck,  Can you talk about your experience after PAE?  I had mine on 11/21/14 and still need Tamsulosin to be able to pee.  How long did it take to stop the medication?  Did you have any pain after the procedure?  I had some bleeding in semen for two to three weeks but that has cleared up now.  I have noticed that I get a soreness in the area of the prostate now after ejaculation.  Did you experience this? 
    • Posted

      Hi Bruce; How goes it??  Yes, I had blood in the pee for about a week afterwards.  Pain for a few days, maybe 3 or 4.  I was told I could take myself off the Avodart after a month and the tamsulosin after 2 months.  I did that.  Had the procedure on Sept. 10th so I guess thats almost exactly  4 months now.  Been off the tamsulosin for 2 months now and the Avodart for 3 months.  I still get up to pee on average 3 times a night.  As I mentioned I now have a fantastic climax and actually "feel the explosion". Something that I couldn't experience for 2 years while I was on these 2 nasty drugs.  The whole point of the PAE as you know is to shrink the prostate 20 to 25% after about 6 months.  My 6 months will be up on March 10th.   After talking with "CS123" on this site I figure someday in the future I will probably end up getting a "plasma button turp".  He said he was extremely happy with his outcome.  Iam not sure if the PAE is going to solve the problem forever as I still continue to get up at night for the bathroom breaks.  But I will say that my sex life has improved a thousand percent since getting off those 2 ugly drugs.  Yes, you can tell I really hated them with a passion.  Something that I have discovered thru Dr. Oz is if you take about 4oz of real Tart Cherry Juice at bedtime that it acts as a natural sedative and will help you fall asleep.  I take it every night and usually will sleep for 4 hours before the first bathroom break.  After that its every 2 hours.  Hence the 3 times nightly.   Where do you live if I may ask???   You are about the first person I have encountered that has had the PAE just like me.  How many times nightly are you getting up????   Hope to hear about your recovery etc etc.
    • Posted

      I am in San Diego, California.  I travelled to Oakland, CA to have the procedure since it was only offrered there.  I didn't notice much in the way of sexual side effects from tamsulosin, but I do get light headed if I stand up too fast from a crouch.  I guess I should wait to see how things progress since I am less than two months out form the procedure.  I try to not drink after 10 pm and get up once a night, sometimes twice.  I talked to the guy who had a PAE in early september of 2014 and his experience was very different.  Had 5 days of severe pain but then a full recovery and normal urine stream within two weeks.  I wonder if they gave him more spheres or if he had narrow arteries.  Where are you located?
    • Posted

      Sounds to me like your condition is much improved. I think we all know that nothing good can happen when we get on the dang meds and getting off them is major. Getting a good sex life back is major too. Seems to me that PAE has to take it's place among the premier procedures to be considered by BPH sufferers.  

      You did the research, took the risk of an obscure, new procedure and deserve the good outcome you are experienceing. That's the way it's supposed to work for gutsy pioneers. 

      My best to you and yours.

      Ron in Texas

    • Posted

      Just my humble opinion but 4 oz of tart cherry juice isn't all that bad on the sugar content.  Now if you are a diabetic thats a different story completely.

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