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other forms of B12 and how to increase frequency of injections

Posted , 8 users are following.

lesley06487
lesley06487

Will using sublingual or transdermal B12 help if someone is diagnosed with pernicious anaemia?  I thought the body couldn't absorb B12 because of the lack of intrinsic factor - that's why taking B12 tablets is pointless.

My daughter has 12 weekly injections and the effects only last about 4 weeks but her GP won't increase the frequency.

Can anyone give us some advice please??

Thank you in advance.

 

1 like, 17 replies

17 Replies

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  • sarah92748
    sarah92748 lesley06487

    Posted

    Hi Lesley06487,

    People with pernicious anemia can absorb B12 from tablets.  There is a second way that the body can absorb the B12 from tablets, without intrinsic factor.  The absorbtion without intrinsic factor isn't very efficient, and that is why B12 tablets have such large doses of B12, but it is enought to make a difference.

    Your daughter could take B12 tablets to supplement the B12 shots she gets.  It might take a few weeks for her to feel the effects of taking the tablets, but taking tablets should help her get the B12 she needs. 

    The Wikipedia article on pernicious anemia says, "Although initial treatment of the disease usually involves injections of B12 to rapidly replace body stores, a number of studies have shown long-term vitamin replacement treatment may be maintained with high-dose oral B12 supplements, since sufficient B12 is absorbed from these by a normal intestine, even without any intrinsic factor. In this regard, nasal and sublingual forms of B12 have not been found to have any special value over simple swallowed tablets.[4]"

    That says to me that people can benefit from taking B12 tablets if their doctor won't give them injections (like me!) or if their doctor won't give them frequent enough injections.  I think your daughter should still get the shots, but she could take the tablets also, since it seems like the one shot every 12 weeks isn't enough.

  • MadgeC
    MadgeC lesley06487

    Posted

    Hi Lesley, I wouldn't bother with the high dose oral. The amount that you can absorb non-specifically without IF or with PA is very low. Less than 1% of the dose administered. This has not proven to be effective in raising levels of patients with chronic fatigue syndrome or with PA, some of whom have tried for years. In contrast the transdermal B12oils has been able to do this within one month in several instances. It is also replacing B12 injections in ASD kids, which oral hasn't been able to do. Let me know if you want to know where to get the material from.
    • lesley06487
      lesley06487 MadgeC

      Posted

      Yes please - all this conflicting information is confusing but I want to hear all the different opinions so I can investigate all options.

    • sarah92748
      sarah92748 lesley06487

      Posted

      I've never seen any reference to transdermal B12 being an effective way to absorb B12.  Shots are effective and oral B12 is effective.  There is a nasal spray also that is effective, but I don't think it's easy to find or better than oral B12.  I see information on transdermal B12 only on alternative health sites.  B12 deficiency is serious, and it's important to get the needed B12.  The known effective ways to absorb B12 (shots and oral B12) are listed in the Wikipedia article on pernicious anemia, and at this NIH (U.S. health website) http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/000569.htm.

      There is a good book about PA named "Could it Be B12?" by Sally M. Pacholok that talks about symptoms and treatments, and she recommends shots and oral B12.

      Transdermal B12 is not a recognized by medical science as an effective way to treat PA.

    • MadgeC
      MadgeC lesley06487

      Posted

      Hi Lesley, I have put the link in your in-house letter box. If you have any questions about the technology, I suggest that you follow the link on their web-site. I have found them to be very good and they appear to really know their way around VB12 and the conditions. It is very "smart" technology. I was very sceptical at first, but I use the material and it has been a God-send. Good luck with it
  • MadgeC
    MadgeC lesley06487

    Posted

    Ah Sarah, I see that the wonders of modern science have not quite got to you. In fact there is very good technology for transdermal delivery, it has been shown in many studies and has shown effectve transdermal delivery of huge water soluble molecules such as antibody molecules (IgG), insulin, IGF1, EGF, and now vitamin B12. The transdermal delivery has in fact had a dramatic improvement in children with ASD, who have methylation related mutations and need vitamin B12, and has been incredibly successful in treating chronic fatigue syndrome using combined Ado/Me mix of vitamin B12. It is certainly the next generation technology, and has huge application to the treatment of B12 deficiency related conditions. It has many advantages over the old fashioned delivery systems such as injectables and oral.
    • sarah92748
      sarah92748 MadgeC

      Posted

      I'd like to read some of the studies about transdermal delivery of B12.  Can you tell me where I can find them?  I couldn't find any studies about the effectiveness of transdermal B12 oils in PubMed.
    • MadgeC
      MadgeC sarah92748

      Posted

      Hi Sarah, the technology is actually fairly old - around 7 years. I suggest that you look in Free Patents on line and redo your search. A good place to start it to use a google search and the key words transdermal and protein delivery. You can also tag one of the inventors Russell-Jones.AND transdermal in PubMed The moderator doesn't allow links in the discussion, so unfortunately you will have to find the links yourself.  Apparently it has also been presented at some International meetings. Don't know how you find these though. Anyway, at the end of the day the material works. I should know, it basically saved my life. That is a decision that you would have to make though. Do you want to stick to the old methods using the wrong vitamin B12 prodrugs (cyanocobalamin or hydroxycobalamin), which are not active in up to 30% of people, or do you want to use the latest technology that gives a much better, flatter profile which actually uses the two active forms of B12 in the body?. I know where I would go (and have gone), but I realize that that is an entirely personal decision.
    • verbena
      verbena MadgeC

      Posted

      Hello Madge, Do you use the oils only or as a top up?. I did trip over a website about these topical oils which was very interesting but then realised they were selling it. The price was a bit heavy. Although I'm not sure how long it would last . I have no issue at present with the frequency of injections as I've only had the initial 6 and the practice nurse assures me that if I need it sooner I'll get it. So we will see. I read an article on the net from a Dr. Lipschitz who says if one takes orally 1,000mcg of B12, even without the intrinsic factor; the body will take up enough to be effective. Can't remember the required daily amount but its about 2mcg. I live in the U.K.
    • MadgeC
      MadgeC verbena

      Posted

      Hi Verbena, I only use the oils. No more injections. Each of the bottles does about 60 doses. I put on one dose/squirt per day. I hated the injections, apart from going through the peaks and troughs of energy, occasionally I would get bruising, and my muscles would ache around the injection. Also in the oils you get the two active forms of B12, adenosyl and methyl B12. The way the oils slowly release B12 into the circulation means that it does help to reprime your liver and brain. for interest I tested myself on the lumosity brain training site. I was really bad at it when I started, now I am up the top for my age. I was very surprised as i don't think that my brain is really that good. It took a few months to get up there though. I was getting nowhere with the injections. The cost per day if you buy 3 bottles is pretty good, particularly as I don't need the injections. I also now have no symptoms of deficiency at all, can sleep all night and don't have to get up. I was losing a bit of hair before - you know on the brush, but that seems to have stopped now.
    • verbena
      verbena MadgeC

      Posted

      Thanx for that. At what point did you start the oils? Right after an injection whereby your levels are up to begin with, or any old time? and did you tell your G.P? Thank you in anticipation!
    • MadgeC
      MadgeC verbena

      Posted

      I would start as soon as you get the oils. No point in going down into a low. Up to you about telling your G.P. It depends if you think he/she will be receptive or not. I just stopped going.
  • kathy86363
    kathy86363 lesley06487

    Posted

    I was recently diagnosed with pernicious anemia as well. The doctor told me to go on mega doses of liquid and tablet B12 each day although I will be honest and say I didn't adhere to his directions as told. Having another medical condition he wasn't treating (enlarged thyroid with goiter), I sought a second opinion. A month ago, my new doctor did bloodwork and NOW my B12 levels are high! I'm at a loss at what to do. Something isn't clicking on the B12 thing for me. 
    • MadgeC
      MadgeC kathy86363

      Posted

      Hi Kathy, do you know what form of vitamin B12 you are using. It is most likely that you are using an inactive "provitamin" form cyanocobalamin (CN-VB12). Now the thing is that if you use megadoses, you can get a tiny amount into the circulation, which will raise what they measure as B12, BUT, it will be the same form as you are taking. Thus, it will be cyanocobalamin. If you are one of the 50% of people who can't convert CN-VB12 to the two active forms of the vitamin, adenosyl-VB12 (adenosylcobalamin) and methyl-VB12 (methylcobalamin), then you are absolutely wasting your time and money using it. In addition, if you smoke, you can't convert the CN-VB12, and for many people who are very low, they also can't convert CN-Cbl to the active forms due to problems inside their cells. If you have a mutation in one particular gene that codes for the MTRR enzyme you also can't convert CN-Cbl to the active forms. In addition, you now have the inactive CN-Cbl floating around in your body, which will interfere with the uptake of normal dietary adenosyl and methylB12. You need to take the mixed Ado/MeCbl forms of B12, but it will take some time to displace the inactive CN-Cbl. I can tell you where to get it if you are interested. Good luck, oh and I would try to find a doctor who understands this.
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