PMR and Excersize - Experiment in Progress

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Hi Everyone!

In search for information about PMR I have come acress this site with lots of information and links.  I have learne a lot and in return I would like to contribute about the topic of PMR and excersize....

Background: I am 66 years old and have suffered first attack in mid November 2015... I have been fairly active person and have done some triathlon in the past, so not being able to get out of the bed on my own was pretty shocking to me... It took about one month to diagnose PMR and I started medication (prednisone) at 15mg/day mid December. 

If there is an interest, I would like to post about the progress in recovery, with special attention to excersize. I am seeng specialist every 2 weeks and complete blood work is done to monitor inflamation caused by PMR.

I would like to post what I have done thus far and future progress in (hopefully) sucessful recovery.  Please let me know if there is enough interest in the subject.

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  • Edited

    Hi Nick, I'm also a bike rider who came down suddenly with PMR two years ago and had much trouble getting out of bed.

    Even pre-diagnosis though, I managed to climb on my bike and do some real mileage every day.  Getting on/off the bike wasn't easy but I put in the daily miles and am so glad I did. I also lost about 15 pounds, never gained it back.

    Recovery began with Prednisone at 15mg about 3 months into it, and I felt much, much better, even stepped up my training over the subsequent three months and did a few cyclocross races during that first year.

    When I tapered down my dosage is when symptoms began returning, eight months on or so when my 1mg/month reductions caught up to me at around 7mg/day or so.

    It has been another full year now, and I have only been able to taper down to 3mg per day, so still just managing my symptoms to an "acceptable" level, and only managing to do a couple of races per year so not at my best/strongest.

    Let us know what treatment regimen was prescribed for you, and how it is going.  This will take awhile, likely a couple of years or so like me, but there is a LOT of variance on the recovery time so you may recover more quickly or slowly.

    Do try to be creative in adapting your exercise routines to what your body has less difficulty with, so you can be active every day like me. I ride a road bike in the hills, so might be quite different than your more-aerodynamic triathlon form(?).

    Also try to get the whole skeleton onto it while riding, which loosens me up (though I still get on and off the bike kind of slowly).

    Last thing is that too much exertion (or too low of a steroid dose) can at some point induce a weakened, fatigued feeling, so you'll want to try to stay just below that point while exercising. I violate this rule all the time and sometimes leave myself feeling lazy for a while, but no harm done as far as I am concerned, especially since when I exercise more I usually sleep better.

    • Posted

      good report dan. should help a lot of us. In my experience exercise is primal in facing off against pmr. thanks again.

       

    • Posted

      Hi Dan,

      I wan to thank you for your posts. It helped me a lot, encouraged me to not wait until PMR is gone to get back to excercise. My onset of PMR was sudden and although I lost 3Kg in the begining, I have gained most of it back already. I am probably not going to be as agressive as you are ( I have stopped racing 10+ years ago and sold 3 out of 4 bikes I had). Triathlon requires too much time commitment ( at least 3hr/sport/week). I only kept mountin bike, because I felt that for the time spent I get better workout ( like you said it uses whole body).  Depending on the season, I usually practice 2 out of 3 sports, to keep in shape.

      I do have question for you regarding what do you do during the transition week(s) when you tapered down your dosage? Have you reduced training load or did you change anything? 

       

    • Posted

      I am 54 and an Ultramarathon runner and I am an adventure racer - so I bike, run, kayak and climb on multiday events. I say I AM - because I still complete and train - with some adjustments with PMR - in fact I would say that my exercise has kept the worst aspects of PMR at bay.

      I started in PMR in 2018 - following a huge stress at work - and just getting out of bed was hard. I thought it was DOMS but it carried on way beyond my normal 48 hours. I soldiered on for a month then did some research - and booked to see the GP - I walked him through the diagnosis - got a Rheumatologist appointment - and was prescribed Pred - 20mg. Almost immediately it was resolved - albeit - in the morning and evening as the steroid wears off I have pain. I have since tapered to 6mg and pain is creeping back - mainly Rib cage, Hips, Knees, Shoulders - but it moves around week to week.

      I played with splitting the dose and this did allow me to train in the morning - but the GP was skeptical so moved back to morning dose and training in the evening.

      I train 6 days a week - 1 rest day - 3 bike, 3 run, 1 Strength and mobility session (Squats, deadlifts, Core, Yoga) and think this has been huge benefit for me - and managing PMR. Typical long run will be 25-30km with a pack, Typical Ride - upto 100km.

      I compete - including a 5 Day World Series event in 2019 - I needed permission to compete and take steroids as they are banned but exemptions are allowed.

      I'm in a 12 month training cycle to August when my next race is - another 5 day expedition.

      Its interesting that if you keep moving the effect of PMR seems to be held off. I recently did a horrific training test - 1 mile run every hour for 24 hours and this did seem to hold off the pain. As a rule I don't get any bad fatigue from the exercise - any more than usual for my age.

      I think that the steroids do have an effect - positive in terms of energy and maybe in terms of performance and intensity of training - but I know that there are negatives - on my bones so I do heavy lifting etc to counter that plus - diet and calcium.

      I think I face a trade off - I should probably push steroids down faster but I would probably have to stop training for a while …. or forever. I'm not sure that is beneficial or a good quality of life

    • Posted

      You need to either make a new post as this one is very old, or post on HealthUnlocked forum instead, where most of us are now. Last I looked, Nick posts there as well. My response to the theme of your comment - keep working on finding the right balance. It isn't all one and all the other, but you will need to make compromises. And it does get better, just takes time. And patience. 😃

    • Posted

      all one OR all the other

    • Posted

      That is impressive! I am glad you did not stop training. I have about 20 years on you, so my training is focused on maintenance, rather then improvement. I dont race any more, so I find that 3-4 sessions per week is good enough. I agree with you that exercise helps with PMR because it promotes greater blood supply to muscles. As you know PMR restricts blood to muscles, so exercise counter that. On higher prednisone doses one has to be careful with high intensity exercise, because among other things, steroids impede muscle recovery/rebuilding. That concern goes away at lower doses.

      One thing to be careful about is that (at least for me) connective tissue was also impacted. I had more problems with that then muscles. In one unfortunate incident I stretched ACL and pretty much ended my ability to run. Lose knee and instability was the result.

  • Posted

    Thanks everyone for responding to my post!  Let me begin with explaining my thinking  about PMR and  exercise....

     

    There are several elements that helped me compose my plan for recovery:

     

    1- Anyone who trained for racing knows that hard interval workout will cause muscle  damage and swelling and inflammation. You feel weak at first, and then muscle rebuilds and becomes stronger.  I found some similarity to PMR, because it felt just like I had very , very hard workout.  The best way ( in the past) for muscle to recover is to follow hard workouts with slow, long exercise at very low intensity level.  This  pumps blood into the muscle and washes away lactic acid and reduces inflammation. I was hoping that gentle exercise  will have the same effect on PMR.

    2.- I lost 3-4 Kg during a week before treatment started and was concern that laying around would cause permanent loss of muscle mass, which is very hard to rebuild, especially at our age. I knew I had to do something to prevent that.

    3. I have physical therapist that I used to visit once a month to take care of  "weak" area that developed  while exercise . She has magic hands that would find tense, or inflamed muscle and massage it and /stretch it to help with recovery.  After being diagnosed with PMR I started going twice a week. This helped me a lot.

    Note: What I observed is that from PMR muscle gets "short". It is almost as if it is contracted, tense and not flexible. My goal was that with physical therapy I would try to stretch it and also focus on flexibility, before I try to make it stronger. This should improve blood flow and speed up recovery.

    4. My dog ( weimaraner ) needs 3 walks a day or he would drive everyone crazy. I had to walk him no matter what.  What I did not realize at first that I also needed those walks just as much.

     

    Week 1

    I began therapy on Thursday, Dec 17th. Week before, I was taking pain and anti-inflammatory medication ( similar to ibuprofen) . I had light fever, and pain pretty much everywhere, especially in shoulders and legs.  While I was resting, I started to read about PMR and this is how I came across this web site.  I moved to Japan several years ago. When I was talking about "getting out of bed" it was really figure of speech.  Here most of the people sleep on futon, which is on the floor, which makes it much harder to get up. I had to literally rock myself towards the table, grab  to the edge or the leg and hoist myself up.

    I did not feel much relief from symptoms in a first few days. By Monday next week things improved.  As soon as I felt a little better, I forced myself to take walks ( with dog) , each day a bit longer. This did cause some pain in the leg muscle, but it was a "good" pain.  It was a pain from tired muscle, not a sharp pain like from PMR.  To help in recovery, I started going for a massage on Tuesdays and Fridays. Also I would take long hot bath at night.

    medication: I was taking 5mg  in the morning and  10mg late afternoon + antibiotics .

    Week 2

    Things were getting better. I could walk now usual walk ( 1 km)  once or twice a day. My steps were getting more steady, and speed was slowly improving.  What I noticed is that I would not feel "normal" until very late in the afternoon, so I decided to change time I take medication. Now I took 10mg in the morning and  5mg at night. Immediately after morning pills I would go for a 1km walk and that seems to help me to get to  "normal" by late morning. At the end of  week 2 ( Dec 28th) I have gone for checkup to the hospital. Blood test showed that  inflammation and sedimentation indicators were almost back to normal. I explained to specialist what I have been doing and he encouraged me to continue, but be careful not to do too much.

     

    Week 3

    Steady improvements.  I was now walking three times a day and feeling much better. I still went for physical therapy twice a week. Things were looking up.

     

    Week 4

    Much better. I am up to 5-6Km walks a day. I even went to try swim and did about  2 x 500m  + 2 x 5 min walk in chest deep pool. I think I might have crossed the "line" , because I felt really tired after. Next day I went for massage to relax area of the body I used.

    Here is how my typical day looks like during the fourth week after treatment started:

    - Get up around 8am, have some yogurt and fruit  before  I take 10mg prednisone + antibiotics ( daiphen) + Lansoprazole (15) to prevent intestinal ulcer ( one of the side effects of  prednisone).

    - Take a brisk walk about 2.2 Km. It takes me about 25-26min. I stop after 20 min or so and do some light stretching.

    - Walk a dog  after breakfast, about 9:30 or 10AM - 1Km  16-18 min casual speed.

    - Another dog walk, about 1Km after lunch

    - nap in late afternoon

    - After supper I take second dose of prednisone 5Mg  and, you guessed it, walk a dog again smile.

    Note: the reason doctor split medication in two parts is that I have extended day and I am up until 1-2 AM .

    I am scheduled for another checkup, blood work etc January 12th. I will post the update after....

  • Posted

    Nick, even though you will almost certainly find that "progress" toward full recovery can seem hopelessly slow at some point, I hope that you can stay with you program and report back once in a while.

    As to your point number one, and the inflammatory response post-exercise, note that prednisone greatly blunts the typical sitffening of muscles following your workout and after the subsequent lunch.  I used to have trouble walking downstairs after an hours-long workout in the hills, but since coming down with pmr and starting on prednisone, my leg muscles don't stiffen nearly as much after those hardest of workouts.

    The prednisone (even at the low dose of just 3mg that I have worked down to over 21 months) also has eliminated the allergy season (hayfever) for me.  I will no doubt miss these benefits of prednisone therapy (after my pmr goes away and I have to do without prednisone).

    Also, I have changed my dosage schedule to taking the whole 3mg late in the day, simply because my most-intolerable symptoms (such as ear-ache) were occurring at night, interfering with my sleep.

    I tried stepping down to just 2mg last night, after a few weeks now at the 3mg level (down from 5mg in early November), but awoke after only one hour with head, neck and ear discomfort.  So I chased down another 1mg with 2oz of plain yogurt and got back to sleep within a half hour, and am not feeling bad this morning. I will be running my neighbor's sporting new herding dog in an hour or two and am looking forward to it.

    One more thing Nick, I lift very light weights every day, and can feel the improved flexibility within just a couple of rep's!

    I'll sometimes have evening coffee and then do this for an hour or so, inventing new routines as my condition allows. This week I installed the pull-up bar, and I do both stationary pushes and pulls with it already.

  • Posted

    EXERCISE AND PMR

    Hi everybody. I have rapid onset PMR which was quickly diagnosed. Started on Pred 2 weeks ago at 30mg which did not work. After a week started taking in 2x15mg doses  rather than all at same time. Now down to 10mg morning and 10mg evening. Pain now totally under control. (almost!) Medics a bit confused why splitting doses works better than one big one so more tests planned.

    My interest is getting back to running and golf. I used to run 20k per week and golf twice. My concern is doing too much too soon: risk of worsening the PMR and setting off a flare; risk that Pred might mask the normal aches from running.

    First very gentle jog tonight and plan to increase very slowly. Will not start golf so as not to complicate source of possible flares.

    Will share progress if you're interested. Very interested to heaar other sufferers experiences with exercise. Anybody found any research?

    Andy

    • Posted

      I don't feel that it is the case of pred masking the normal aches from running, since it isn't a pain killer.

      Rather, pred greatly blunts the inflamatory response, for better and for worse to a degree, since I've read that inflammation is one stimulus that promotes muscle growth.

      So perhaps best not to expect the usual rate or progress, i.e. results from traning.

      I did get up to racing level back in 2014 as I was tapering through the 10mg/day range, but also began having foot pains that required I buy new wider shoes.  That lasted about four months iir, and by the time it had cleared up I was near 6mg/day which is where my tapering had to be slowed due to onset of classic pmr symptoms plus ear-ache while sleeping.

      The sleeping issues did eventually define what my minimum dose could be, now at 3mg each evening.

      I ran the dogs yesterday, not part of my usual schedule, and felt hip-socket-area pain early on, but made it home ok and not feeling bad this morning at all!

  • Posted

    January 12 Update...

    Great news! My blood tests came all clean ( CRP) marker for inflammantion is back to normal  . First test I did in November had the CRP @ 11.3, next one was Dec 28 was @0.7 and today it is 0.1!  From tomorrow I am stepping down to 12.5mg from 15mg dosage.

    Today I did something different. Ecouraged  and inspiered by dan38655 comments, I went for a mountin bike ride! What a trill!  I did it slower then usual ( before PMR), but it was a first "serious" excercise 9km, just under an hour, 1k ascent /descent each.~ 700 Cal used up.

    • Posted

      Glad you could get out to play! I'm really missing my biking, but the one time I tried a VERY easy ride in September, my groin & thigh muscles hurt so badly the next day, that I was really sorry I tried. Very disappointing. I know I will get back to it eventually, so for now, I'm having to placate myself by going for long walks every day. Let us know how you feel tomorrow--I hope it will be good!
    • Posted

      I'm not ready for the bike yet. Just completing the first four weeks of Pred after four months of being unable to move, watching the muscles wasting away so quickly. I'm just happy to get out walking and just did 14miles this week. Did three straight days of three and half miles, well that's my limit at the moment, nice to have a baseline to work with. Feels good to have a plan of action, knowing that I've got keep it gentle, little steps and all that.

      Ron

    • Posted

      Hi Vickie, I know exactly what you mean.  It takes lots of preparation... more so that I explained. For example, before going biking, for two weeks or so, I included in my walks one hill that has about 50 steps to clime... this works your thighs muscles and also hip muscle that lift your legs ( same muscle that is probably causing your groin pain)... Do that for few weeks and dont forget to streach after the excercise.  See if it helps ...
    • Posted

      Ron, agree slow and steady... it is not a 100 m dash, it is more like marathon...

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