1. Community
  2. Men's health
  3. Prostate Problems

Prostate Enlargement BPH

Posted , 12 users are following.

mark23925
mark23925

What I do not understand is why the medical doctors do not really understand why the prostate reacts to something in the body whether it is testosterone or DHT and just grows out of control after a certain age. What is the cascade; what starts it all off? Any in the know? It happens to guys who are thin, fat, in shape , out of shape, athletic, couch potatoes; what is it?

1 like, 61 replies

61 Replies

Prev Next
  • arthur4422
    arthur4422 mark23925

    Posted

    Mark,

    Drs. Gat & Goren in Israel have likely identified the root cause of BPH.  The long run veins that carry blood away from the prostate become varicose (the vein's interior one way valves fail).  This varicosity causes two effects: 1)  the prostate's venous blood pressure rises markedly, dialating the prostate cells and inflating the size of the organ (hypertrophy); 2) Venous blood pools around the prostate increasing the Testosterone concentration surrounding the Prostate to levels up to 100 times normal.  This cause rapid cell prostate cell multiplication (hyperplasia), making the prostate larger.  Drs. Gat & Goren have developed a procedure for blocking the incompetent prostate veins.  Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu recently had the procedurre done.

    • Jezzaman
      Jezzaman arthur4422

      Posted

      FRom what I have read extensively on this forum I believe you may be right. I have BPH and have had Acute Retention twice; no fun at all!

      I also have a PAE lined up for 9th Feb in Oxford UK as part of the ROPE UK PAE trials. This is a treatment however and the same as the GAT Goren procedure which would be more preventative I would have thought.

    • Jezzaman
      Jezzaman

      Posted

      I meant to say not the same as GAt Goren!

       

    • arthur4422
      arthur4422 kenneth1955

      Posted

      Ken:  PAE is very different.  The procedure blocks the arterial blood supply to the prostate, staving the prostate cells of oxygen (Ischemia) and nutrients.  Prostate cells die off and the organ shrinks in size.  The Gat Goren procedure works on the venous side of the prostate and fixes the actual cause of the problems, varicose veins.  Since PAE doesn't really address the cause of the problem, after the body eventually reopens the embolized prostate arteries or develops alternate new arterial paths to the organ, the prostate will start growing again.
  • philip1950
    philip1950 mark23925

    Posted

    My wife was recently hospitalised and very ill. The doc could see the symptoms but did not know the cause. He was quite upfront about it, He said that " doctors dont know it all " Thankfully she has made a good recovery.

    My own doctor has said as much about prostate problems, that the cause is not as easily discerned as the effect or symptoms of the illness.

    The practice of medicine is often said to be an art rather than science. We live in hope.

    2

  • craig84609
    craig84609 mark23925

    Posted

    Well if it is caused by vericose veins, that is interesting. In my case I have noticed these in my legs so I would believe that they can happen else where. I would not like it if it was bad enough that I couldn't urinate. I have other health problems like Crohn's disease so I wonder if the inflammation from it caused this to get worse.
  • craig84609
    craig84609 mark23925

    Posted

    I am on Testosterone replacement therape because I have an inflamitory disease that has caused my body to stop producing it. If I stop taking it my bone density will suffer as well as mental function, energy and muscle mass. The problem is it is causing a bit of BPH in me and this is causing pain. It also makes it more difficult to urinate. I have also noticed that after urination small amounts of a clear fluid drip out. It is not an STD. I was checked after my last partner and it has been years since. I would like this to stop but not at the expense of stopping the hormone treatments. I am not sure at what point I should do something about it.
    • Jezzaman
      Jezzaman craig84609

      Posted

      Hello Craig,

      I am sorry to hear about your side effects, however it is of great interest to note that the Testosterone replacement therapy is actually casuing BPH in your case. Have you had this confirmed by a Urologist?

      And are you sure you didnt previously have an enalrged prostate?

      I think you should get a referral to get it  checked out if you havent already. 

      Jeremy

    • craig84609
      craig84609 Jezzaman

      Posted

      Yea, I know but I need to be on the stuff because my testoeterone was 30 when it was checked. My doctor told me that this spring he wants me to have a PSA test done and I can make a prediction as to what it will say. I think I will refuse because I don't want to go in for needless biopsy for BPH as some doctors are quick to jump to conclusions. He may stop giving me testosterone if I refuse. It is quite the pickle I am in as I have Osteoperosis and need testosterone to help maintain my bone density. I also had very little drive and extreme depression when my T was low. I really hate this whole situation.
    • kenneth1955
      kenneth1955 craig84609

      Posted

      Yes it is depressing on we has men go through.  But that is life.  I would have the biopsy just to make sure it's ok.  But it is your decision on what procedure you have done.  ken 
    • mark23925
      mark23925 kenneth1955

      Posted

      I had 2 biopy's they checked out fine; plus the superimpose MRI with biopsy; but my PSA is about 5.4-6.00. Really I have tried diet; I have eliminated and cut down on most foods. But it does not seem to do anything to the size of the prostate and its pressure on the bladder. The only thing I did notice; is spices like cayenne peppers and tumeric and jalapenos make me have prostate attacks. I imagine I will have to go with the coring out. But urologist explained even with that procedure you still have the chance of developing prostate cancer; the same chance.
    • craig84609
      craig84609 kenneth1955

      Posted

      I don't see the reason to get a biopsy when most likely it is BPH. Getting a biopsy should never be taken lightly as some have died from sepsis shortly after and I am on immune suppressants to treat Crohn's disease. I don't blame others for making that decision as you need to do what you think is necessary in their case. I have had some bad experiences as a young man at the hand of doctors so I am not very trusting of them. When it comes down I usually make the right call for myself. What happened to me is not the norm so not saying that one shouldn't trust their doctor, but for me it is difficult. I find it hard to go to a male doctor when it comes to below the waist exams. It is some thing I have to get help for.
    • kenneth1955
      kenneth1955 mark23925

      Posted

      Mark sorry your have this problem.  Why don't you see about a urolift or a PAE both would help you pee better and there are less side effects.  Please look into them before you have something that is going to mess you up. Try the less invasive procedures first  Ken 
    • kenneth1955
      kenneth1955 craig84609

      Posted

      You should trust your doctors.  I trust mine.  It's some of the male nurses I don't trust I could tell you a horror story but I am trying to forget about it.  But it will allway be on my mine.  The only thing that came out of that was I found a great urologist.  He know me and we tried alot of things to help me.  And he also knows my concerns about my prostate.  No one is going to burn, core or take my prostate out.  I don't care what anyone has said.  Alot of the urologirst like to push the turp because that is what they know.  My urlogist is more for newer procedures with less side effect.  And he listens to me.  And I don't understand what he is saying I ask again.  He has even draw pictures to explain it.  I had a biopsy done on my prostate when I was 47.  12 needles.  It turned out to be a prostate infection.  I have 2 to 3 infection a year either in the kidneys or my prostate.  In 2014 I had 7 kidney or prostate infection Also that year I had sepsis white blood was over 25.000.  The doctor told me another week I would have died.  I was in the hospital for 6 days.  I through I had the flu.  He told me I had it in my blood for 6 to 8 weeks.  I had a infection and then got food poisioning It hit my bladder kidney colon I was very sick.  When I came home Had a port in my arm had to have 11 more threatments.  Now I make sure that I know what is going on and no one does anything to me unless they tell me first.  We all must do what we feel right for us.  If you would like to talk send me a message.  I'm up late most night  Take care  ken    
    • craig84609
      craig84609 kenneth1955

      Posted

      I am sorry that you had to go through all of that. I would have thought that the doctor would have tested you for prostate infection before ever doing a blind biopsy. As biopsy only has a 30% success rate. This is what I am trying to prevent no reason to do a biopsy until other prostate enlarging conditions have been ruled out. Some people end up having sepsis from the peocedure. They now have the ability to do a high resolution MRI to first see if there is a growth in the prostate if so then they use the MRI to guide a single biopsy needle to the site of the growth. This is a much better way of doing it. Don't get me wrong it still sucks but at least they go in with a target and purpose. I hope you get better soon.
    • Jezzaman
      Jezzaman mark23925

      Posted

      MArk you do not have to go through the coring procedure at all. (Avoid TURP at all costs)

      I am having a PAE next Tuesday at a hospital in Oxford UK under a trial.

      Am Not sure if you in USA or UK but please look at PAE and Urolift as Ken says they are much less invasive and have a high success rate.

      Inbox me if you want to talk direct,

      take care Jeremy

    • kenneth1955
      kenneth1955 craig84609

      Posted

      I had everything done at that time anytest. before I had the biopsy.  The PSA test...The finger test..the untrasound prop and the then the biopsy.  It was a mess.  At 47 alot was going on.  Unded up getting divorced.  That is when he found kidney stones.  I still have the picture from one of them.  It was the size of a juw bracker.  I hope things go well for you and you can relaxs some.  Don't do anything your not ready to do.  Ken
    • Jezzaman
      Jezzaman mark23925

      Posted

      Have you read the book by Ron Bazar called The HEalthy Prostate

      HEre he talks about diet, and how he cured himself.

      Worth a read I reckon!  I bought it to read anyway.

      Makes a lot of sense and correlates with the latest thinking on processed foods etc.

    • kenneth1955
      kenneth1955 Jezzaman

      Posted

      I'm glad someone else is looking at newer procedures. A turp can be very rough on a man.  Have a good day Ken
    • craig84609
      craig84609 kenneth1955

      Posted

      Believe me I have been through so much and it started at age 38 for me and I will make sure that all options have been knocked out before I will ever consent to a biopsy. In my case I am sure that it is mild BPH due to Testosterone injections, so I will not do a PSA I will have the doctor check for infection and BPH first. Knowing what I know now I would never submit to a blind biopsy. If one is needed then I will opt for being put out and it taken through the urethra with a scope aided by a high res. MRI. No need for multiple sticks. It is to bad that happened to you. In this day and age there has to be a better way.
    • Jezzaman
      Jezzaman craig84609

      Posted

      I am totally with you on this.

      MY PSA is 6.0 but no way am I having a biopsy at this stage!

      I have ahad full MRI and CT and ultrascound scans if anything sinsister were to be picked up I thinkn it would have been. The Hospital have not even mentioned PSA but they have taken blood ofcourse! They probably dont believe it is worth taking PSA or they may have already but not considered it worth bothering me with,

      I will ask the Consultant next week!

      I have my PAE next week! Will take PSa again in 3 months and post results here.

    • craig84609
      craig84609 Jezzaman

      Posted

      Good for you, it sounds to me that you are taking the right path and making sure that there is a reason for a biopsy. I had unfortunatly watched a short educational video on the biopsy procedure and I found it terrifying to say the least. I don't think any doctor would be so quick to put themselves through it so why should anyone else unless there is a concrete reason to do it. Good luck to you.
    • john332
      john332 Jezzaman

      Posted

      Hello. My consultant recommended a turp after distinctly saying when looking at the screen during my cystoscopy that there was nothing that needed surgery maybe drugs? I was retaining 170 ml.

      can the urolif be done on the NHS ? 

      Thanks for for any input 

      john

    • kenneth1955
      kenneth1955 craig84609

      Posted

      That was young to start having problems.  No one every talk to me about the prostate or anything in that area.  I learned on my own.  I have 2 sons both in there 30's and they come to me if they have a problem.  I am very open with them.  I try to tell them to take care of yourself now so later you will not have a problem.  When I had my biopsy I was out.  I don't mibe needles but in that area  Not while I'm awake.  Now I look up any information I can because the first thing the urologist want to do after the pills is a Turp because it is the gold stander.  They are no many now that are better and have less side effects.  And with prostate cancer the first thing they like to do is get the prostate out and tell you that all will be fine.  Ya right.  I found a procedure that is non surgical.  There use a MRI to fined the cancer in the prostate and zap it out.  They will not take mine without a fight..... Take care  Ken  
    • kenneth1955
      kenneth1955 john332

      Posted

      You would have to check but it's woryh a try.  Had mine done in April of last year.  Worked great....Ken
    • Pepasan
      Pepasan john332

      Posted

      Yes, but very limited. Depends where you are in the UK. I believe Newcastle and Surrey. It's recommended by NICE but not caught on yet 'on the ground'. There's another thread about this.
    • craig84609
      craig84609 kenneth1955

      Posted

      Exactly, they always down play it like no big deal, ask that doctor what he would do if it were him and you may get a lie or a totally different story. I agree fight to keep what is yours. The biopsy procedure hasn't changed much in the last 25 years and that is terrible. It doesn't mean that it is the only way or ones only option there are others. I wish you luck with whatever you decide is right for you. It is your decision not the doctors and they need to respect that.
    • mark23925
      mark23925 Jezzaman

      Posted

      No I think the couse of action is incorrect. A biopsy is necessary, it is not painful. It will tell the doctors if there any suspicious cells. Did your doctor want a biopsy?
    • craig84609
      craig84609 mark23925

      Posted

      A blind biopsy only is 30% accurate at detecting cancer. This is why it is a good idea to have a high resolution MRI done first to locate the tumor, if there is one. Then they have a target to biopsy. This cuts down on trauma caused by multiple needle sticks. Also some people the risks of biopsy caused complications are much higher than most. In my case being immune suppressed. I don't disagree with a biopsy , but I don't think blind or saturation biopsy should be done. There are better more accurate ways.
    • kenneth1955
      kenneth1955 john332

      Posted

      Yes it can.  If it does not work.  I am having one replace next week.  I had a prostate infection and mess one of the implants.  I'm not worried Trust my urologist .  While he in there having my prostate checked and mt bladder just to make sure all is well  Take care  Ken 
    • craig84609
      craig84609 kenneth1955

      Posted

      I am not sure but my dad had a procedure done that removed some of the enlarged tissue and he has no trouble voiding now but I know from the awful silence on the part of my mother and father that what was done may have slightly damaged their sex life, so I would wait until I have no more options as I am still fairly young and would still like to be able to have sex from time to time. Not saying he can't at all he just will not talk to me about it.
    • craig84609
      craig84609 Jezzaman

      Posted

      Well BPH is not cancer, but if your talking about a rapid rise in PSA then you may want to have your PSA checked again in 6 weeks to see if it goes down or up. Did the doctor do a DRE if so did it feel normal? It is a tough call and you need to do what you think is right no matter what anyone says. If you do have a biopsy make sure they use a method of pain control and see if you can have the High res MRI guided type so at least they are not blindly done. Most prostate cancers are slow growing so I would think you have some time to watch things. Take care.
    • kenneth1955
      kenneth1955 craig84609

      Posted

      Men at that time never talked about anything down there.  My father was the same.  Like I said before I'm very open with my sons.  That's like me I'm 60 and still enjoy sex ( not as much as I did before )    I don't went any trouble in that area and when they start burning or cutting away at the prostate thay cause a problem That's why I had a urolift,,,Ken
    • Jezzaman
      Jezzaman craig84609

      Posted

      Yes i will have the test as you say after the PAE, but not sure 6 weeks is long enough to leave it. I will ask the Guy who is performing my prostate embolization. The procedure is bound to aggravate the prostate after all part of it will be killed!  and elevate the Psa I would think?
Back to top
Prev Next

Report or request deletion

Thanks for your help!

We want the community to be a useful resource for our users but it is important to remember that the community are not moderated or reviewed by doctors and so you should not rely on opinions or advice given by other users in respect of any healthcare matters. Always speak to your doctor before acting and in cases of emergency seek appropriate medical assistance immediately. Use of the community is subject to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy and steps will be taken to remove posts identified as being in breach of those terms.