Quit Mirtazapine after taper, is this still withdrawal

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Hi guys,

?I have been writing on this forum for some time and I have been tapering from 7,5 mg since the end of June. The end of July I went to 3,75 mg and every time i had soms bad nights after a little less than two weeks. The end of September I started taking 3,75 every other day and had soms bad nights aswell. End of Oktober went to 1,875 every other day and quit everything on 14th of November. I'm almost three weeks post now, and feel relatively good, but my sleeping is still very light and I have trouble falling asleep. Also I have muscle tightness and tension. Ringing in my ears too, but this is probably the muscle tension.

?I am curious if anyone can comment on this, is this last stap (quiting) harder than all the tapering before? And when should I consider going back on a tiny dose? i really want to see it through, but I also don't want to be irresponsible. Last night I had to take a Xanax to sleep because 03:00 o' clock I was still not sleeping.

?Any help is welcome. Thanx.

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  • Posted

    HI WHOSTHATGIRL..just read ur post ..when did u first start on mirt and what mgs did u take then ..u say that end july went to 3.75..to end sept .then 3.75 every other day .oct 1.875 ?? then stopped 14 nov WHY..if u re turn to 3.75 for a few weeks  it may all level out..up and downing mirt is not a good thing ..i myself am going through hell [read my posts] been on mirt 2 weeks.1;st night 7.5 mg 3 hrs sleep.  like a zombie next day ..2nd night 3.75 mg no sleep ..been on 3.75 for 13 days  no sleep just doze off 4 a few mins..BUT I FEEL A LOT BETTER NOT SO IRRETATED OR DEPRESSED ECT i think the sleep will come soon..just going to persist untill i see dr in 2 weeks..im new to patient so trying to help.good luck ........BLUESY 
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  • Posted

    Hi,

    Insomnia is always the worst symptom of WD, along with nausea, stomach cramps, itching ...there seems to be an endless list.  It sounds to me like you have done well.  Some people take Benadryl or Phenergen as a sleep aid before trying another med, or if you are in doubt take xanax one night and either of those two the next - alternate - that way you might not then have difficulty stopping Xanax.  

    It may take a few weeks for sleep to return to normal - after doing 50% drops each time your central nervous system hasn't had time to readjust yet.  So I would say if youu can manage without too much distress, sleep 4 or 5 hours each night, youu will see a return to 5 hours, and then 6 etc ... its how long it takes and how well you feel which will be your guide.

    I hope you soon feel well again - should you ever feel the need to reinstate, I would go back to either 1.8 or 3.7, and stay on the same dose until you feel stable again.  Alternating days (taking one night then missing a night etc) isn't for the faint hearted, it seems to confuse the nervous system.  

    Wishing you well smile

     

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    • Posted

      Tnx for your quick reply Calmer. I did feel a bit down a week ago, but luckily this has past. I probably should give it a few more weeks, but I am probably moving up. I guess you feel 100% withdrawal after a day or 12 and after that it should go up. If I should reinstate I would def. try a liquid taper. I will see. How are you doing today? You seem to be the person giving the most advice, but how are you?
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    • Posted

      Thank you, I am OK, I have been tapering slowly and now at 1 mg, I go liquid Mirt from my doc, but not all docs will give it as its expensive (UK, not available USA I think).  

      I still get the odd upset tum and fatigue, fatigue has been the worst part of the taper, so if I can I rest more than norm, but really don't have much time for resting.  Hey ho, thats me anyways.

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    • Posted

      You've come long way. Good for you!

      Have you decided when you will quit?

      I had to leave work early today, I was very dizzy. Hope this passes too. I know this could be related to withdrawal, but it reminds me of my original symptoms which is scary. Slept like a baby though, last night. I suppose that's something!

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    • Posted

      Hi Calmer,

      I am not sure if you are still responding to this discussion, but I am now almost 6 weeks post. I still feel bad, not the whole time, but still enough to not move on. I still have occasional bad nights where I sleep 2 to 3 hours. Made a doctors appointment today, to discuss reinstating a small dose. Like 3,75 mg. I feel myself slipping away, and I don't want to go there again. Other options are prescription melatonin or benzo's. Hope you are doing fine though. This time of year is a very hard time for me. It's so dark everywhere, makes me feel down.

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    • Posted

      Hi, yes I'm still here.  What did you decide with your doctor?  Its hard to get prescribed a benzo, but just a month or so would really help, but of course they can be so addictive.  

      3.75 should be alright to get some sleep ... only you know how bad you feel.  If only it were available in 3,2, or 1 mg it would be so much easier to taper, or even stay on it at that very last dose.

      If you do reinstate, maybe see if you can get liquid Mirt if in UK, or make your own liquid, see how to on here.

      Wishing you well W x

       

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    • Posted

      Hi Calmer,

      My visit to the doc went really well yesterday. We both agreed it might be too soon to start Mirta again, and I am going to try to ride it out with benzo's and melatonin. Took 1,8 mg melatonin yesterday and I was soo tired that I slept like a log yesterday. Didn't even need the benzo. 

      He even surprised me by taking a very refreshing stand about anti-depressive medication and agreed this was probably still withdrawal, even though I stopped 6 weeks ago after a real gradual taper.

      I also realise my sleeping problems in this dark weather could be exarbated by the dark mornings and light evenings. Especially blue light in the evening is problematic so I started wearing orange glasses yesterday to block the blue light from t.v., LED-lighting etc. 

      I am not feeling my old self again, but I do feel much better than yesterday. As long as I am sleeping, I can start to feel better. 

      Thanks again for your encouragement!

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    • Posted

      Oh your doc sounds great smile. Sounds very empathetic, just what you need right now.

      Yes I try to practice good sleep hygiene, no blue light, electronic devices, dim the lights at night ... getting into daylight mode as soon as is poss / I walk my dog early so that helps.

      Hope you continue to improve smile

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    • Posted

      Hi Calmer,

      I slept pretty decent the last three nights, although last night I was awake between 2 and 5 am. But I haven't taken anything to aid my sleep, besides melatonin. And my orange glasses seem to help as well. So I'm still hanging in there. 

      I'm not sure if it's improvement, I still feel my mood fluctuates, but I am glad I slept well without the benzo's, because I really don't want to be addicted, and benzo's have a slight negative effect on mood as well I believe. So I'm hanging in there, hoping to see some improvement. 

      I'm still not really sure about when the time comes to reinstate, because next week I have to be back at work again, and I really don't want to call in sick.

      Thanks again for your support!

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    • Posted

      Hi Whosthatgirl

      Sometimes I think just  fearing we won't sleep well makes us not sleep well, I mean when we wake in the middle of the night and then start to worry, which leads us to a place of fear and then the anx kicks in ... so we have to then practice concentrating (not too hard) on the breath and trying to push away (gently) those negative thoughts ... 

      Right back in the beginning of my insomnia days and when first taking Mirt', I had some CBT sessions, I ended up paying privately because otherwise I would have had to wait up to 8 weeks - I was in such a dark place due to the insomnia that I couldn't afford to wait 8 weeks so I bit the bullet and paid.  

      If you slept well the last 3 nights that's a really good sign; Mirt WD of course comes in windows and waves.  I think my CBT therapist would say to me "so what if I don't sleep well for one night, the following night is sure to be better" - so this little tool he introduced works for me, not easy, but I keep on trying.

      I have some Benadryl tablets, and also Phenergen, but (touch wood) as yet I havn't tried it - just knowing its there helps.  Crazy as that sounds.

      Best wishes.

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    • Posted

      Hi Calmer,I've been reading the posts between you and whosthatgirl for some weeks now,

      I'm at week10 with my w/d's,

      I'm having very similar w/d's, early evening blue sky and tv,phone screens don't seem to help with headaches,

      The spikes of Anxiety are getting too much and I hoped the w/d's would be better by now

      Hhen the Anxiety happens it makes me panic about the future,

      it's as if I've realised there isn't much future left and I get frightened that life is running out,it's like I'm going to fall over the edge 😟 there's no more forward and I'm only 41.

      I can only talk about it now my Anxiety subsided

      I've not experienced anything like this before and I've got to go back to my Gp asap

      I hope your Anxiety isn't anything like mine.

      I wish you an easy speedy recovery!

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    • Posted

      Hi Vicky

      Did you suffer with anxiety before Mirt' or do you think your anxiety is part of the WD?    Either way anxiety disorder can be terrifying can't it.  Have you tried any meditation or breathing exercises at all?  The thing about anxiety, it just accelerates if we go into panic mode doersn't it, and then yes ... we feel like we're going to go over the edge ~ the very best thing is to try and stop going into this panic, and they only way I know it by using a relaxation tecnique or meditation ... practice daily, strengthen the nervous system, nervous mind.

      I havn't suffered with anxiety through my tapering, mainly fatigue and the odd stomach flu.  I am almost at the lowest dose possible 0.02 mg (!!!) just a matter of letting go and seeing what arises !  I do have a little fatique still, just hoping I don't get hit with symptoms when I'm at zero.

      You mention feeling frightened and falling off the edge ... I don't know if this helps you at all, but that "feeling as if is probably as bad as it can possibly get - a therapist once said to me that there is no such thing as a break down, just an accumulation of symptoms, mainly driven by fear.  So its the learning to remain "in the moment" with Mindfulness practice, that may help long term.

      Hope your WD symptoms ease soon Vikki, I know 10 weeks seems a long long time.

       

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    • Posted

      Thnx for your reply Calmer. Seems I am through the worst of withdrawal (I think) because I am sleeping like a baby again. Not sleeping well starts for me with not really being tired before I go to bed. But you are right. Each night you sleep bad, the next night you almost always sleep well. 

      I have also been using my blue blocking glasses, which is actually a very cheap one they use on a construction site for example, but I fall asleep on the couch now every night around 23:15 which is really new to me. My boyfriends then wakes me before I am in a deep sleep and I walk to my bed to fall into a deep sleep. To bad I fall asleep so soon because I am watching the darts game and I keep missing the most exciting games. ;-) Oh, and in the morning I use my light therapy box. 

      Mood is better as well. Let's hope it stays this way. 

      We've had some pretty dark weather here the last days, with a lot of fog, but it didn't seem to mind me at all. Today is a bit worse, but not at all bad. I am hopefull I can keep feeling better.

      Thanx again for your support!

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    • Posted

      Hi Vikki,

      So sorry for what you are going through. Quick question, did you ever try to learn diafragma breathing, or belly-breathing? It helps me when I feel low and start to panic. What was your dose of Mirt' before you quit? Did you taper slowly?

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    • Posted

      Hi Calmer

      Thanks for getting back to me!

      The answer to your first question is No I'd never had Anxiety ever!

      I got the Night Sweats/Insomnia/Anxiety from not taking the AD properly...arrg

      The breathing techniques came naturally as it's the only tool to use to make best of the bad situation

      Your so right the"feeling as if" is the worst it gets and knowing that helps,I take deep breaths and carry on regardless..hehe🙄

      You did say that this wasn't for the faint-hearted and there wasn't a truer word on this topic

      I haven't been to see a therapist but I'm using all the techniques naturally"staying in the moment" is a great way to say it.

      You've been a great help Calmer

      I'll keep an eye on your progress!

      I know where to look if I need your help and advice again...thank you

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    • Posted

      Hey,I've not heard of those breathing techniques but il will look it up! Thanks

      I didn't take my AD responsibly which was arrogant of me, hence why I have this problem

      I went from 15mgs sporriodicly to 2 15mgs sporriodicly when the 1 tab didnt work as well and I did this for 3 months,I took my last Mirt on October 22nd after Night Sweats and insomnia,the Anxiety kicked in 2 weeks after that and by that time I knew my brain was remodifying and that it would take some time

      I only took it for help with sleep and now I know I didn't need help with sleep...arrg

      What a way to lesson to learn!

      I read Mental Health Daily on (Remeron) Mirt + how long it lasts,it really helped me understand and gave me reassurance

      I hope your having a better day

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    • Posted

      Hi Vikki, 

      So you where taking 30 mg sporadically before you quit? You might benefit from doing a slow taper if your symptoms don't go away. A lot of people on this forum have done that. If you are in the UK you can even get Mirtazapine in liquid form, and this will make tapering much easier.

      Take care!

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    • Posted

      Hi Calmer,it's only just dawned on me that I've had a breakdown ...

      it's been uncanny the timing of taking the pills and getting w/d,it's makes me very suspicious 😒

      You said ... your therapist told you there was no such thing ... and I agree with you both ... Is it just circumstantial that it been perfect timing?

      Are we all turning our lives around all of the time?

      I've slowly through December had my breakdown and in front of members of the family,I just couldn't keep it together any longer after 1 person let down shamefully,I've been in hibernation since

      I've been waiting for the new year and now it's here!

      My feelings are all hitend at the moment ... I think the family has got together and realised what's been happening and they don't know how to help other than stay away and let me be ... how would know how too... You've been a huge help and in someways my therapist 🙂

      Thank you

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    • Posted

      I realised at week 5 that I could start taking them again but this time responsibly, I decided I'd gone to long without them and I didn't know what was to come,

      I've had my breakdown now so I'm going to stick with it and go see my Gp.

      I won't be asking for A/D thought but I do think I ort to let my Gp know what's happened,

      Thanks and all the best to you!

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    • Posted

      Hi Vikki,  

      Happy New Year ~ remember you will get better, the WD cannot get any worse now, that's a plus hey ... phew !

      Well you speak of being suspicious and having a break down during December ~ but don't you think this was the withdrawal, not you going doolally because of circumstantial stress or the like, just the chemical being witheld sending you soaring into an anxious state.  That's the horrid thing that happens when folk suddenly stop taking Mirt or rush off it too quickly, and there is nothing any one of us can say to force people not to do it, we can only advise ... but it is what it is, and now you're moving forward.

      What's your sleep like now?  Are you managing to sleep 5-6 hours?  

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    • Posted

      Hi Calmer,

      It's a good job I know myself better and know I'm not going doolaly, yes it is circumstantial,

      It a had to be chemical imbalance and now I have an understanding of how this works I'm dealing with it better, I know it couldn't possibly get any worse

      I get some anxiety around sleep time and I'm a bit uncomfortable for an hour or so ~ jolting,bad dreams ~ my eyes bolt wide open and I have to start again,once I go over I sleep 8 hours and find it easy to go back over through the night,

      I really hope I'm over the worst and Happy New Year to you too

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    • Posted

      Hi Calmer, I've just had a few really hard days/nights, I've had some intrusive suicidal feelings which has overwhelmed me, has this been the W/d's still and will it get better without coming back?

      I'm hoping that was the tip of the iceberg,I couldn't spend my life feeling like that, it's been dreadful

      I hope you don't mind my texting,my family are aware of the Mirt w/d's but I couldn't tell them about what's just happened because I was so scared.

      I just want to go back to how I were, not many people understand, I didn't fully understand Anxiety until now.

      Thanks Calmer, I know you can only tell it as it is and I'm great full and teary.

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