Red palms and other signs

Edited , 13 users are following.

Hello everyone.... I have been having a number of symptoms for a while now and now I'm thinking it may be possible i have a liver problem.

About 4 days ago my both of my hands felt sore while driving. Later that night while washing my face I noticed the outside of my hands on the side had redness so I turned them over and noticed they both palms were red. Under my thumb, little ringer and at the pads under each finger. The redness is also on some of my actual fingers. I went on Google images and typed on red rash on palms and from the photos I seen what I had was called Palmer erythema. I had a dermatologist appt the next day for a cyst on my back and showed him my hands. He confirmed it's what it is. I also pointed out to him some other skin issues that had recently popped up. He said I had spider nevi, something that begins with a T but is all these little veins around my nose, under it and around my mouth and liver spots. I forgot to show him my nails but I wanted him to look at them. He said I needed to go to my primary for some blood work. I have an appt but went on line to look up causes of the skin issues and liver problems is all that keeps popping up and the list of symptoms in addition to the skin ones are symptoms I have been having lately.

I had basic labs start of May which included some kind of liver function test cause I recall my Dr telling me my kidneys and liver were good from the blood work. I also had a ct scan of my abdomen w/o contrast for a mass he thought he felt. The report says my liver looks okay other then being enlarged by 20cm which he thinks is something called Riedels lobe and nothing to worry about. The report also says the lack of contrast limits pathology in the solid organs which the liver is one of them. I am not even sure you can see liver disease with a ct scan anyways.

So here I am worrying over my liver now sad anyone have any advice?

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  • Posted

    I am new to this forum but if your dr says your bloods are ok then that is a good thing
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    • Posted

      Indeed having good blood work is a good thing though I dont know exactly the blood that was drawn. It was ok assuming just a basic test. Like ones you get during check ups. From everything I am seeing is you can have normal blood work and still have liver issues. I don't know if liver issues are found on ct scan or if there is a specific test for it.

      I used to drink tons far to much in my 20s but I haven't drank in several years now. I do however take narcotic pain meds daily and have for many years. The passed 3 months I have also been taking a lot of Tylenol which I just recently found out is a big no no sad

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  • Posted

    Liver problems can be found on a CT scan but not a n any detail. I know because I am going through the system. I had the ct scan on June 1st  which showed something not quite right with livere,then had MRI scan of liver on 15th June which showed swelling in the liver affecting the bile duct, and am now waiting for an ERCP to try and diagnose the cause (possibly cancer of the bile duct). Any form of liver disease is apparently not easy to diagnose  in its early stages, but by time you get jaundice when it is easy it is often too late for much to be done.
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  • Edited

    Right, so you have, Palmer erythema, Spider nevus and thread veils (the thing that began with T) plus liver spots.

    These can all be to do with liver problems, but if you look them up, they all can be to do with some other cause. What is wrong with your nails, you didn't mention?

    You are quite right in that blood tests don't always show problems up.

    As for CT scans, I don't really rate them for liver checks. I've had a couple for my brain in the last three years. Once for my brain haemorrhage and once again when I started blacking out. But to check my liver (which is damaged) I have an ultrasound every year (as well as a full set of hospital bloods - about 24 tests).

    The ultrasound always picks up the liver scarring and the radiologists are very good at using it. It is exactly the same as they use on pregnant women. I come away with blood tests that are all fine and a not very complimentary report about my liver.

    An ultrasound is very good at detecting liver problems including early stage problems. It is always used for the liver in the UK, but for some reason (I don't know why) in the US the CT/MRI scan is preferred.

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    • Posted

      Hi there and ty for your response....

      I looked at my summary from dermatologist and the veins that popped up out of no where on my face are called Telangiectasia.

      I started to not feel very well a few weeks before Easter. Very tired, can't remember things, I can literally be talking to someone and several times forget how to say a word and either sit there trying to bring it out of my mouth or end up saying something totally different, itchy sometimes but nothing is there, lightheaded spells, most of the times I have no appetite and when I do eat I'm full the 2nd bite. These symptoms may or may not be related. My skin has darkened but I don't spend much time outside. I wanted to ask the dermatologist about my nails because they have rigids. If you look at them from the side or any way you look at them really you can see the lines in them. They go to bottom and the white part at the very bottom of your nails looks kinda like a moon is gone. It's a radish color there and at the tip of my nails also.

      I was worried about my skin changes because they are fairly new but I didn't look up what they could be because I already had an appt coming with the dermatologist in the next month. I freaked out when my palms turned red a few days back and thank God I had an appt the next day because with all of that stuff popping up back to back I was really starting to worry. I'm still worried, very worried. I'm 35 years old with kids youngest is turning 3 next month and I need to be well for them.

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    • Edited

      I forgot to add that 2 weeks ago I started getting pains in my legs, feet, arms and hands.... I have never had pains like these before. Someone asked me if it was joint pain but u do not know what joint pain feels like.
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    • Posted

      The liver produces the energy we use to function. If we do not ear properly or the liver is not functioning properly, we feel tired and lethargic. The fact that you have no appetite, indicates there is a problem, because the body should naturally ask for food to keep it going.

      Finger nails are a very good indicator of our health. The ridges in a young person point to a problem. The disappearance of the Moon on the thumbs (people don't neccessarily have them on fingers) and the radish colour usually indicates a liver problem.

      Not eating will give you memory problems, because you will not be getting the neccessary vitamins such as thiamin.

      You have too many symptoms not to have a problem. You need to write them all down, mention that the dermatologist has confirmed some and go back to your GP and get more tests done plus an ultrasound. You should not sit there hoping it is going to go away.

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    • Posted

      I think if your GP is ignoring it, with all these symptoms (assuming you've mentioned them to them) then it is worth getting a second opinion, for your sanity and wellbeing if nothing else.

      However, you must, must, must, write everything down, all the things you have listed here. Start with all the things that the dermatologist has confirmed and write that it was the dermatologist that told you.

      Point out your nails, ridges and colouring, disappearing lunula (Moon) on thumb. Point out fatigue (use that word, not tired), lack of memory, confusion (encephalopathy - put that in brackets), lightheadedness (possible syncope), itchiness (peripheral neuropathy).

      No appetite, can't eat more than two mouthfuls. And tell them that your liver is enlarged by 20cm (8 inches) which is a lot.

      Please write it down, believe me, you will forget half of it if you don't and it will be the important stuff you forget, in amongst the confusing atmosphere at the hospital. Some doctor or nurse will start discussing something with you and take you off at a tangent and it is so much easier to refer to a piece of paper of give that to them.

      Finally, if you do go, please come back and update us.

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    • Posted

      I'm sorry I made a mistake. The report says my liver is enlarged and measures 20 cm not that's it's enlarged by 20 cm. The report states.....

      The liver is enlarged measuring 20cm in length. This appears to be Riedel's lobe variant elongation of the right lobe as opposed to generalized true hepatomegaly. The liver has normal density. No suspoius cystic or solid masses.

      I do think I will probably go to the ER. They don't much like it when you go and it's not an emergency but I am going to try because I really am not feeling well and for all this stuff to be popping up back to back has to mean something. I pray it's not my liver but I have so many of the symptoms. Most of the symptoms can have other causes as well but the I'm not sure about the skin ones. I seem to have every skin symptom and that's scary.

      I was admitted to hospital on June 1st to June 3rd for the lightheadness. I looked through all my labs from when I was there as they took blood every few hours but I find no liver testing in those labs. Mostly cbc with differential and basic metabolic.. lots of blood testing looking for heart attack and prothrombin time test which I think was checking to see how long it takes blood to clot.

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    • Posted

      I did go to the emergency room. They ran blood work... cbc auto differential, comprehensive metabolic panel, lipase, and urine test. Said blood work was normal... I asked for a copy but they said they couldn't give me one but that I fluid request one from medical records 2marro. I asked for an ultrasound but they said ask for one from my primary Dr. I do not know if any of the above testing checks your liver.

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    • Posted

      I am off to my primary care Dr. All my blood work from hospital was normal so I will be asking for ultrasound. We will see what they say about my request.
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    • Posted

      Yes, I wrote them down but he wouldn't take my paper and when I was telling him about them he stopped me and said what is the main reason you are here? I explained and he said you should make an appt with your primary care Dr we handle life threatening emergency here and there really isn't anything we can do but I will run some blood work. He did cbc with diff, comprehensive metabolic panel and lipase and he said they all came back normal and told me to make appt with my primary care dr.

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    • Posted

      I got ultrasound set up for July 12th for my liver. She gave me a really hard time about it. She said she doesn't see how to justify it since my liver function tests are normal so she isn't sure my insurance will pay for it and I may have to self pay. That's okay by me... she also gave me a referral to see an ear nose and throat Dr because she says lymph nodes are swollen in the left side of my back and have been for over a month. Just my luck another thing to worry about sad

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    • Posted

      Well, I'm glad you've got your ultrasound booked. I am still a little concerned that no one is talking to you about your symptoms. Someone really needs to give you answers regarding those.

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    • Posted

      Maybe I should try changing Drs. I told her while I was there that I feel like no one is listening to me but she said she isn't sure what I want her to as all my blood work checks out fine but I am worried. Even if it's not my liver there is something wrong with me.

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    • Posted

      I am at a loss as to why no one is talking to you about your symptoms and soley concentrating on your liver results. Anyway, good luck with your unltrasound this week.
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    • Posted

      It's like Drs around here only care about money. No lie, when I was there 2 months ago telling her all my symptoms she told me I needed to hurry up sad can you believe That? I found a lump on my ribs start of March. It's still there getting bigger and now causing me pain. I also have numbness on the left side of my back in the rib area and have since about 2 weeks after I found the lump. I had a ct scan w/o contrast and since it showed nothing they dismiss me everytime i bring it up. It can be felt, they have felt it but because of t har normal ct scan i get pushed off.

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    • Posted

      If I was in serious danger with my liver like right away, would it have shown in my bloodwork? I am starting to panic as it seems I'm getting all the symptoms. Normally most of my veins can't be seen but in the last few days it looks like they are all coming to the surface. Like my forearm. I never have been able to see my veins through my skin there but now they are coming to the surface. I fear all the Tylenol I was taking hurt my liver.

      This is starting to cause me great anxiety. I have had 3 panic attacks today over this.

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    • Posted

       I have just been  medically diagnosed with liver disease but my liver function tests have always been normal, even 2 weeks ago. I have to have a special kind of endoscopy on Tuesday to confirm exactly what kind of liver disease it is but I can honestly say I had no symptoms apart from severe tiredness. Having certain symptoms (other than jaundice) does not necessarily mean you have liver disease but on the other hand not having symptoms does not mean you haven't got it. Mine was discovered incidentally when having tests to discover the cause of my iron deficiency anaemia

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    • Posted

      It is difficult to say. As I have said, I am at a loss as to why doctors will not look at your symptoms and make a diagnosis. Your ultrasound is almost here, so hang on a few days.

      In the UK, the radiologist is a doctor and I always question them after about the scan, rather than wait to hear back from my GP/consultant.

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    • Posted

      I was diagnosed with iron deficiency anaemia in April and under the British system, if you are first diagnosed over the age of 60 it has to be investigated and I am 69. I had a gastroscopy which showed nothing unexpected but then had a CT scan of the colon which showed a swollen liver so was referred for an MRI which was more detailed. That confirmed a swollen liver which was affecting the bile duct. I was then referred to a professor at my local teaching hospital who has arranged for me to have another test on Tuesday which will confirm what type of liver disease I have and remove any tumours/stones.
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    • Posted

      I had a professor as my main consultant when I had a long stay in hospital, which was a university hospital. A bit odd at first, having someone who is a doctor, but not called doctor.

      Good luck on Tuesday.

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    • Posted

      I had someone tell me if I find myself going to the ER again to try going to one at a University hospital. She says they tend to pay more attention... I think I have a few in my State they are just a bit of a drive but I am only 3 or so days out from ultrasound appt so.

      The radiologist here in the US is also a Dr but he stays behind the scenes. Most scans here are done by tech's and they don't tell you diddly squat. Even if your an anxious mess and your scan is clear. They all have w generic message t har sounds mostly like "I am not a Dr and can loose my license for saying anything. I take the pictures, the radiologist reviews it and makes his report and then sends it to your ordering Dr, good luck"... no matter the kind of scan... Ultrasound, ct scan, MRI it's always the same story sad

      I have done research however and read that most supposedly ultrasound techs are the ones who make the diagnosis. Perhaps they don't say as they don't want to deal with it if it turns out to be something extremely bad.

      I am just frustrated and sick of feeling like crap. There is a reason all this is happening. I am glad I pay attention to what my body looks like and was able to point a few things out to my dermatologist because even though I had no idea what these things were or any possible reasons they would just pop up, I felt their presence was a little weird esp the red palms. I don't know why but they really freak me out.

      I will be seeing a new Dr. I called on Friday and they told me to call first thing Monday morning and they would get me in the same day. I am praying this Dr will listen to me. It's not a good feeling to be pushed off. When i firrst started having symptoms and tried explaining them to my Drs pa she literally said "you need to hurry up "!!! I had only got about 5 words out before she said that and my ex husband who came with me got up, grabbed my hand and lead me out of the room, he advised me to find a different Drs office and I did try but my insurance isn't accepted by many and the ones that do, the wait is months long for a new patient appointment. Hopefully the Dr I'm trying to see 2marro is has better bed side manner.

      I think the problem now a days, here anyway is these Drs have far to many patients and their schedules are over booked. They care more about how many patients they can see in one day then they do about giving any one patient quality care because the more patients they see, the more money they make. When i was younger your Dr actually took the time to listen to you and they actually knew you. I fear now days Drs become Drs for the wrong reasons and even if they didn't after a few years they become just like all the others. It's really sad.

      Anyways, I'm just venting because I'm really frustrated and worried about my well being and feel powerless in finding help for myself. I am a single mom with 3 kids, one of which is only going on 3 years old. I am so tired actually it's a feeling that goes beyond just being tired recently that I am finding it difficult to do all the things a good mom is supposed to do. I feel unwell everyday and it's starting to cause me depression and great anxiety. Well thanks for listening to my rent ?

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    • Posted

      Rant not rent lol I can't seem to find a way to edit after I post and looking back at my post there are many mistakes. Forgive me smile

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    • Posted

      To  me it is not odd - I am now 69 and have been in and out of hospital since the age of 4. I discovered by my early teens that surgeons are called Mr and physicians are called doctor unless they are head of department at a teaching hospital when both are called prof. The reason surgeons are called Mr goes back to preVictorian times when only physicians had medicaltraining, surgeons did not. In fact, in mediaeval times, most surgeons did not do so full time they were mainly barbers. As I understand it, it was not  until Vivtorian times that surgeons started having to have medical training
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    • Posted

      Yep, I knew all that, granny sucking eggs comes to mind. I wasn't commenting on the title and how it came about, I was just saying that it felt odd not to be calling someone a doctor.

      When you are chatting to the neuro  surgeon, as I have (I had a brain haemorrhage), it is not normal to call him mister instead of doctor.

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    • Posted

      I had my ultrasound at 11am this morning. She said my Dr would have my results later this afternoon. I will call 2marro and speak with one of the nurses if they don't call me first.

      I have been having terrible dry mouth sad I have also had some swelling in my Paratiod gland since June 14th. I suppose we will know spine. She spent A LOT of time on my liver. Literally 5 seconds on my left side but about 15 or more minutes on my liver. I pray all turns out well. My Dr says he is confident because of my blood work that my liver is fine. I'm not so sure sad

      In 2009 I started getting terrible pains on my right side and chest. It was determined via ultrasound I had gallstones yet when my gallbladder was removed they said there were no stones. I do think it was my gallbladder because I had attacks but I still all these years later get the same kind of pain just in a more mild form. Lately it has been daily and a tad more extreme. I started to wonder if perhaps the pain is from my liver and partially was back then as well since it's the same kind of pain. I do not know how I would get gallbladder pains with no gallbladder.

      Anyways I will post 2marro when I have my results. If results are normal can I rest assured my liver is okay?

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    • Posted

      'She spent A LOT of time on my liver. Literally 5 seconds on my left side but about 15 or more minutes on my liver.'

      This why I prefer ultrasounds and I'm always amazed that in the US, they always gor for an MRI/CT scan, especially is an ultrasound is by far the cheapest. The raiologist spen spend a long time going over an area where they see something and want to have a better look. Yet if you have scan, they cannot change it, they just get the scan picture and can't go, that looks interesting, go over that again, I want to see that area in more detail. Whereras the radiologist, can keep going over an area until they are sure. The other things is, CT scans give you a huge dose of radiation.

      Anyway, please post when you get the results.

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    • Posted

      Hi ?

      My Dr office just called me... Her exact words... "ultrasound is normal except for fatty liver which could be from your weight or your diet".. said if I was still having pains she could refer me to a gastro if I wanted so I said yes please refer me as I don't think I will get any thing other then you have a fatty liver.

      I almost think I was told this before in 2010 when my gallbladder was removed. I think the tech told me I had fatty liver but when I get to the ER I was hysterical because I was in so much pain that they couldn't even get a blood pressure read on me so they had to give me something to make me loopy so I can't fully remember but I have often wondered if he said it to me or someone else or I imagined it. None of the Drs ever said anything to me about it but then again I only saw a surgeon who was only concerned with removing my gallbladder.

      What do I do with this information? Are all these skin symptoms from fatty liver? She made it sound like no big deal..

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    • Posted

      Sorry I sent my comment before I was done....

      Could I have more then just fatty liver? Or would the ultrasound see this? She told me 80 percent of the American population is walking around with fatty liver but I told her I'm still concerned because I doubt they have these same exact skin symptoms I have. I asked her why it didn't seem to make her question my well being that they are all suddenly popping up on me?? I mean these spider things are popping up a lot. I can see them when they are starting off. It takes a while for them to fully form. My palms suddenly turning red, the veins in my face. Plus all my regular veins seem to be coming to the surface. I have olive skin and my veins have never been easily seen but it's almost like my skin is becoming see through or something or they are coming to the surface. I don't Google symptoms because they all seem to lead to deadly diagnosis. I think I'm gonna drive down to the Drs office and grab a copy of the results...

      Thank you for being here with me through this. I am greatful for the advice you have given me. I would never pushed for the Ultra sound if it wasn't for you because I thought the car scan was good enough.

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    • Posted

      Okay so I just picked up the report.. It says... Diffuse increased echogenicity of the liver suggesting hepatocelluar disease likely caused by fatty liver...

      To me this sounds not like what she told me, you have fatty liver but that I have some kind of liver disease caused by fatty liver... I'm so confused right now and worried.

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    • Posted

      I will just paste your bit from the other thread.

      'It says.... Diffuse increased echogenicity of the liver suggesting hepatocelluar disease likely caused by fatty liver... '

      It is good that you are seeing a gastro and hopefully you will move forward now. Fatty liver is the first stage of liver disease and is reversable. It is either caused through alcohol or from bad diet and overweight. They are similar but caused by two distinct things. From memory you don't drink much now, so I would guess you fall into the second category?

      Fatty liver should not cause your skin symptoms, but they are symptoms and something is the cause of them and whatever happens, they should still be investigated.

      What the phrase the report says in English is; normal livers are smooth. Echogenicity is the ability to bounce an echo and fatter liver has more (increased) echogenicity than a normal liver. The gastro will look at his, maybe do some more tests and try and get you on a path to removing this. Whilst fatty liver in itself isn't a major problem, that that it could get worse, means it should not be ignored.

      The liver itself does not have nerves and cannot feel pain. However, when it become enlarges through fatty liver, it can rub against other nerve tissue and cause pain. For this to stop, the liver has to run to its normal size. The pain is referred to right upper quadrant and is usually located just under the ribs.

      Now for, hepatocellular disease. I am sure you have Googled it and convinced yourself os something awful. This be the cause of your symptoms. This could be such a range of things, the phrase encompasses much. But it is likely to just be an infection which can be treated with medication. If it were more serious than that, I think the would have got you a gastro appointment much sooner.

      On the bright side, I think you may be getting nearer to sorting out your skin problems and other symptoms you might be experiencing. For your own piece of mind, you may want to ring the doctors and ask what they consider the hepatocellular disease to be. Try to be calm, doctors always clam up if they hear panic in a patient's voice.

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    • Posted

      No, I didn't Google it because I am afraid to. I did ring the office after I got the report and asked them why they told me I just had fatty liver but the report says hepatocelluar disease likely caused by fatty liver. To me it sounded like 2 different things but she only read the Drs notes and sometimes the radiologist word things different but it's what it meant and that if I'm still having pain they would refer me to a gastro if I wanted them to...

      I think I'm going to have to make an appt with the Dr to get an explanation.

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