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Retro or No Retro After Surgery???

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jimjames
jimjames

I had been under the impression that the newer, less invasive procedures preserved normal antegrade ejaculation as well as full sexual function. Specifically procedures such as PAE, Urolift, REZUM, etc.

However, in just the past day or so, I have read here of at least one person having retro ejaculation from PAE, and another from REZUM. What's more, both suggested they were not alone, and one surmised that in the case of REZUM that people are being intentionally mislead by the manufacturer. 

I thought then it might be a good idea to put all the post-op experiences that relate to changes in orgasm, and/or any other change in sexual function, in one thread for easier reference.

In addition to the less invasive procedures it would be instructive to hear from those who have had TURP and Holep, as some have said they did have their orgasm preserved. There is also a TURP technique called Ejaculation Preserving TURP if anyone has had it. 

If at all possible, let's not debate whether retro is a big deal or not, as that has been talked about before, and could be a topic for another thread if someone wants. I think it fair to say on that score that retro orgasm is a big deal for some people and not a big deal for others. 

Jim

 

0 likes, 37 replies

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  • henselt
    henselt jimjames

    Posted

    I am sure that you are correct that retro ejaculation is a problem for many here, but I suspect that others, like myself, found retro to be a disappointment, but, overall, no big deal. In my case, it was different and I think I would like to experience normal ejaculation again, but it's not the end of the world since otherwise, things work just fine. 

    True, surgeons do not tell one everything that could possibly happen. Until the surgeon gets in there, he really doesn't know exactly what he is facing. In my case, I specifically asked the surgeon to vaporize as much of the prostate as he could --- afterwards, he estimated that about 50% was gone. No one knows how quickly the remaining prostate tissue will grow, but I wanted to put off as long as possible any urinary difficulties and need for a repeat surgery. If he had vaporized 100%, I would have been even happier. If retrograde is the result, for me it is no big deal ... as long as erections and orgasm are not affected.

    • kenneth1955
      kenneth1955 henselt

      Posted

      But sometimes there are.  Why take the chance.  It is a big deal for some and worth saving  I don't care if he is a doctor no man is going to distroy  me.  But we do what we feel is right for us.  No one else can deside that. Take care   Ken

    • jimjames
      jimjames henselt

      Posted

      Hi Henselt,

      What operation did you have and did your doctor tell you in advance you would end up with retro?

      Jim

    • henselt
      henselt jimjames

      Posted

      I had greenlight laser. The doctor told me in advance how the procedure would take place. I think I had already read about the possibility of retro. I know it was not a surprise to me, Since it's a year ago when I had the GL done, it's hard to remember every detail. Since, a few months earlier, I had awakened totally unable to pee and had had to go to the ER to be cath'd (and had the catheter inside me for a week), I definitely did not want to live through that ever again.  The retro, for me, is no big deal.

    • MK51151
      MK51151 kenneth1955

      Posted

      Kenneth,

      worth saving what? Troublemaker? Worthless.

      Cut it out completely. You won't got prostate Ca.

      Just had a radical prostatectomy on November 2nd. Lots of pain, lots of bad pain which painkillers won't kill. Recovery sucks.

      It is terribly painful. My post op day 3 gave me so much pain that is mostly 8 or 9.

      What ever you do, you make a mistake.

      Doing nothing is even worse.

      MK

       

    • steven43881
      steven43881 MK51151

      Posted

      You are in my thoughts, Mike. We are all human no matter what we do. For those of us who have had our prostates touched, may GOD grant others the ability to understand what we have been through and the courage to KNOW how we feel. GOD BLESS EVERYONE!  Get well, Mike!!  We all know how you feel .

           Your friend,!!!

                Steve

                                                                    Steve

            

    • kenneth1955
      kenneth1955 MK51151

      Posted

      Mike I know you had cancer I'm sorry that happen to you. You pick a turp  and I am happy that it come out ok for you.  But that will not be me.  If I get cancer I will find a way to get rid of the tumor and not have my prostate removed.  I do not like retro and I will fight to keep my ejaculation. My ejaculation and orgasm go together.  Dry orgasms suck.  I feel if they take that away from me they will kill me in another way  So I may as will keep it and die.  If it is my time..  I was just in Georgia looking up a procedue that take care of the cancer with out removing the prostate.  We are all diffrent and we all have our own opioion and we all have the right to pick what we feel is right for us.  Take care and I wish you well  Ken

  • nealpros
    nealpros jimjames

    Posted

    Jim, you may be making a mistake by shaping the question as you have.

    It may be that the "RE" of a man with a PAE is very different from that of the real RE of a man with a TURP. If you lump them together, you lose that very important information.

    I'll take the heat for lumping the two conditions together, but it may confuse the utility of the information if you continue it here.

    In my case with one PAE under my belt I noticed no difference at all in the sensations of orgasm with one PAE and no seminal fluid coming out of my penis. Of course, I haven't tried it yet with the second one, but I'll let you know when I do. This might take a while, since it will still be a little sore, and I will have to use it a few times to know what is really going on.

    Neal

    • jimjames
      jimjames nealpros

      Posted

      Hi Neal,

      Not sure if I'm following you. Retro ejaculation (RE) as I understand it is defined as when the ejaculate ends up in the bladder, and therefore never comes out of the urethra. That definition would hold true whether RE was caused by TURP, PAE, Flomax or something else. You can still have an orgasm with RE, it's just that it's a dry orgasm.

      RE was reported by at least one poster here after PAE, and another after REZUM. If I can find their posts I will pose the question if they had true RE or just diminished ejaculation, although what they described in their post was RE. Unfortunately, trying to search for past posts here is sometimes not always successful due to the amount of posts and the non-chronological ordering.

      My objective in this thread was very simple. Just wanted to find out if people had RE (per definition) after their operation and what operation they have. Or, if they didn't technically have RE, what other sexual side efffects (negative or positive) did they have, such as diminished (or enhanced) sensation, ejaculate quantity, etc.

      Predictably it has turned into something else because it can be an emotional subject.

      Jim

    • kenneth1955
      kenneth1955 nealpros

      Posted

      Neal  Glad the feely is still there for you.  The way I understand it is with a Turp or any laser surgery with them cutting out the prostate. they distroy the bladder neck and the ejaculatory duct which will cause you retro and may cause you erection problem and your orgasm may change.  With a PAE they make the prostate go smaller buy stopping the blood flo to the prostate.  You should be able to get a erection but the ejaculation will be less.  Fluid coming out but wirh the cells of the prostate distroy you will be making less.  I would reather hve some then nothing at all.  Have a good day and hope you continue with your healing  Ken   
    • MK51151
      MK51151 nealpros

      Posted

      RE is RE, no difference regarding the cause, either it is caused by medication, TURP, PAE, Urolift or any other procedure.

      when ejaculation occurs it goes into bladder. This is not rocket science nor you guys should be rocket scientists. Wheel is already invented.

      You just adding confusion to it.

      MK

       

    • nealpros
      nealpros jimjames

      Posted

      Hi Jim,

      I believe that you may be mistaken. There is nothing about a PAE which could cause seminal fluid to go up into the bladder. Therefore that definition of RE wouldn't hold. What happens is that the size of the prostate, and therefore, the amount of ejaculate are reduced. So there's not enough seminal fluid to actually leave the penis in anything like a normal volume. There may be a few drops that get out, and I surely wouldn't depend on that for birth control.

      Neal

    • nealpros
      nealpros MK51151

      Posted

      MKen, please read my recent post to Jim. There is a difference.

      Neal

    • jimjames
      jimjames nealpros

      Posted

      Hi Neal,

      I agree with your reasoning, and always thought that was the case. That said,  the reason I started this thread is because at least two members here have recently reported RE from PAE and REZUM.

      Rather than dismiss their observations as false, I thought it a good idea to ask the question if anyone else has experienced RE from these two procedures. One thing I have learned is just because someone in a white coat says something isn't supposed to happen doesn't mean it doesn't happen! 

      I will try and find the posts I was referring to but as I stated before, finding individual posts here is not an easy job.

      Jim

    • jimjames
      jimjames nealpros

      Posted

      Hi Neal,

      OK. Found something! Here are a few posts in the REZUM thread that report retro ejaculation even though the manufacturer of the device apparently says there is no RE.

      I have no dog in this fight just reporting what I read and asking others who have had either REZUM or PAE to share their experience. As to PAE, I also read similar but have not found the posts yet so these posts are just REZUM specific regarding RE.  I will keep looking for posts that report RE with PAE.  

      REZUM Thread Here:

      https://patient.info/forums/discuss/rezum-have-you-had-this-done--499675

      Chuck P: He reports a nurse telling him that there are cases of retro with REZUM.

      https://patient.info/forums/discuss/rezum-have-you-had-this-done--499675

      https://patient.info/forums/discuss/rezum-have-you-had-this-done--499675

      Old Buzzard: He says his doc told him a 2.5% chance of RE with REZUM which appears better than what Chuck P's nurse suggests in previous post.

      https://patient.info/forums/discuss/rezum-have-you-had-this-done--499675

      Jim

    • jimjames
      jimjames nealpros

      Posted

      Hi Neal,

      In trying to research this out, I found a very informative thread of yours several months back where you quote Dr. Isaccson regarding different types of retro ejaculation. Thread here: https://patient.info/forums/discuss/retrograde-ejaculation-pae-fla-etc--533357

      I'd prefer not to get into a debate with anyone on whether Dr. Isaccson's second definition  is technically retro ejaculation, but it does clear up a few things for me and now your first post about RE and PAE makes a lot of sense. What also makes sense is how someone could post here that they had PAE and RE, because going by Dr. Isaccson's second definition, from the patient's point of view both definitions would seem the same as there could be no ejaculate at all. 

      Probably best to read Neal's post (link above) but in summary Dr. Isaccson says the first type of RE is when the ejaculate ends up in the bladder, and the second type is when there is little or no ejaculate coming out so nothing may end up in the bladder. It is the second type that may be associated with PAE, not the first.

      But definitions aside, I think from the point of view of the patient they should feel about the same whether the ejaculate ends up in the bladder or whether there is no ejaculate at all? Or maybe not.

      Jim

    • kenneth1955
      kenneth1955 nealpros

      Posted

      Neal that is right.  the prostate is smaller and does not produce alot of fluid.  It all depend how much you make some men make more then other.  A dry orgasm is were the fluid goes into the bladder and not out the regular way.  I think most men would like at least some coming out they nothing  Ken 
    • Supertractorman
      Supertractorman kenneth1955

      Posted

      Ken, How right you are, would love an erection and being able to ejaculate, would feel like a man again.

      David

    • wally5
      wally5 Supertractorman

      Posted

      I agree. I cannot think that anybody can think that an orgasm without having that force that shoots out should be the same as an orgasm where the semen flows slowely into youre bladder. When my urologist told me that the climax would be the same, I believed him and I thought that he is a specialist and therefore I can trust him. But believe me nobody could prepare me for that first climax after the TURP  and even with levitra and testosterone injections, The climax was pathetic and my urologist totally arrogant. I start to question a lot of medical studies and I think that in this case they just seem to do another study and another one till they get the results that they want. What can you do if you tell youre urologist that the climax is not the same and he told you that the studies thats been done show no difference in climax. When I told my urologist that I dont have any problem with an erection but that the climax is pathetic he asked me so what is youre problem?  
    • nealpros
      nealpros jimjames

      Posted

      Hi Jim,

      I was one of them with a PAE. I was just suggesting that when you tabulate the results, you keep the 2 kinds separate.

      Neal

    • nealpros
      nealpros jimjames

      Posted

      Yes, Jim, you got it.

      As I wrote above,keep them separate, and you might get the answer about any difference.

      Neal

    • kenneth1955
      kenneth1955 wally5

      Posted

      Wally alot of doctor thell you that all will be the same  That is just a text book answer that is what they learn in scool.  It is ture in principal because all men are built the same but all do not have the same orgasm and after they mess around it is diffrent.  Dry orgasm suck they have no feeling.  I was on flomax and rabiflo the first time I had one the built up was good but at the point of orgasm it went flat there was nothing I got off them fast  I think all men that are going to have a turp or any laser surgery should go on a med to cause it so they can know.  Take care  Ken 
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