Sandrena help

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Basically I've found myself in a position where I was recently changed from oral oestradiol valerate over to Sandrena .1% gel. So far, I'm pretty sure my body hates this stuff. I've been getting headaches, hot flushes, night sweats and nausea. Right now, typing this I'm starting to feel hot, I put the gel on at about 9am it's 4:20pm now (Australia). Last night trying to go to sleep, I was basically a hot sweaty mess with racing thoughts and just couldn't settle down till nearly 4am.

The Pharmacist suggested applying it to the insides of the wrists alternating the wrist each day. Asides from that I wasn't really given guidance on how to apply it by the GP. The Progynova was stopped as my new GP felt that topical was going to be better for my liver in the long run. My previous dosage was 4mg of Progynova, my current dosage is 1x .1% gel sachet a day. In case it helps, no uterus or ovaries, I've predominantly been on E only. This so far has been a week of hell, but I don't do bloods for another three weeks yet.

Any suggestions or thoughts would be greatly appreciated!

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  • Posted

    I started on patches nearly 2 years ago but couldn't get on with them as they kept falling off.I went on to Progynova 1mg about July 2015 and have found them fantastic.No side effects,no hot flushes etc.I would go back to using them if you found them to work better.I have never been told anything about my liver.

    Good luck.

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    • Posted

      Thank you btw. smile. I'll see what happens, this particular GP seems to be anti oral oestrogen. If it doesn't work out I'll argue to get it back. I felt pretty good on the Progynova, energised even. My liver has been going pretty good too, but oral oestrogens can raise liver enzymes... a endocrinologist put onto the Progynova in the first place. *sighs* I'm not entirely sure what to think anymore.

      But, I'm going to follow the advice below and see if it improves any, if not, I'll think about options.

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    • Posted

      Highly tempting to go back to what I know actually works, but I'm willing to consider and try alternatives (so far not impressed).

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  • Posted

    Hi. I too could never get on with gels, my body didn't absorb them. Patches don't work for me either. I'm on Premarin which is the best so far but I still get joint pain...I've been given a prescription for oral oestrogen at a higher dose than standard to try soon.

    Is Progynova like Premarin but with progesterone?

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    • Posted

      It's a bit weird, you'd think with that name it would have progesterone, but really it's just straight up oestradiol valerate. Judging by the taste when you have it on you tongue just before you swallow it, it's gotta have a good amount of sweetener in it too. 

      I've been on Premarin in the past at .625mg daily, but was switched to Progynova (out of the two, it's now my preference). Premarin is a fairly different compared to Progynova, it's still straight up oestrogen but it's a horse oestrogen, which I believe is more potent though a little more harsh on the liver (as roughly explained to me by a doctor). Is it alright if I ask what dose you're going to try? Also, is it still Premarin? 

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    • Posted

      Hi, the one I'm trying next is Zumenon which is also straightforward estradiol valerate. I've been told to try 2mg on a morning and 1mg on an evening, upping to 2mg on an evening if necessary which is much higher than standard. I've been on Elleste Solo before, 2mg per day but found it peaked quickly and then I would drop low. I think that's why Premarin works better for me as it builds slowly, however I have thinning hair, fatigue, aching joints and tendons and weird tingling and muscle cramps so far from perfect! Doctor said if next plan doesn't work, only option left is implants.

      I'm almost 47. How long is it since your surgery. I will be 2 years in June.

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    • Posted

      Have you tried magnesium for the muscle cramps, are you getting enough B vitamins (especially B12 which can help with neuropathy), iodine (especially needed for thyroid function) and zinc. All of the above can cause a number of the symptoms you're having. As an aside, corticosteroids can also cause some of those issues.

      The Zumemon may not be too different than the Elleste. But the twice day dosing can make all the difference. That's why I was taking 4mg, it was 2mg morning and 2mg evening, because it felt like it was trending low by late afternoon. Just be warned, that the evening oestrogen may make it harder to go to sleep (that's what I found). As usual mileage varies! Injection is another possibility, personally I hated the idea of weekly injections though.

      I didn't say it in my original post, I'm 36 and it had to be done a little over 5 years ago.

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    • Posted

      Hi thanks for feedback. Have tried vits etc...weirdly the cramps only seem to be with Premarin. Just realised that it's Climaval tablets I've been prescribed...just moved house and changing doctors so will be a couple of weeks yet.

      Are you going to go back onto the tablets? In UK, we only have option of implants rather than injections and I don't really fancy them.

      You are young to have gone through it. Hooe you get some relief soon x

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    • Posted

      You're welcome smile. On the Progynova, I actually felt really good, I'd even say energised and alive. Biggest issue was a very decreased alcohol tolerance, it did improve, but basically I couldn't have more than a glass or two of wine (max). The only other issue was antibiotics, apparently they decrease the absorption *sighs*, so going onto a course would start the menopausal symptoms up again. It's possible my body is odd, but I think it also helped me lose a little bit of weight (could have been other factors, but I did take off about 8kg over a 5ish month period)

      Would love to go back to the tablet at this rate, but I'm going to give the gel the remaining 3ish weeks. Pending on blood tests, I might be able to convince my new GP to let me go back. As of yesterday, I've started applying the gel to my thighs, hopefully that help stop it feeling really spikey. I'm not sure if pellets are as big a thing over here, it seems to be oral, transdermal or injection. There are some compounding pharmacies that can make lozenges and creams with a valid script. My endocrinologist didn't like transdermal because absorption rates can be unpredictable. 

      Thank you, I'll admit that at first it sent me into a bit of a spiral but with time and counselling I managed to pull myself out of it. I feel like the hrt helped a lot too! Btw changing doctors is never fun! Hopefully you do really well on the Climaval (it's oestradiol valerate too) smile

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    • Posted

      No, the pellets are now a behind the scene thing.  Drs would just tell you (if they knew anything about the pellets) that they are no longer available and never offer them.  I had to chase it up myself.

       

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    • Posted

      If 'over here' is Australia, that is where I am from.  However, my gp is now enlightened about them and has offered them to other patients (she told me so).

       

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    • Posted

      You're right, I'm in Australia (I sure I said that). Pellets are something I can look into, I'm in the hunter valley and compounding pharmacies are few and far between sadly. They all seem to be around the coast, to my knowledge even Newcastle only has one. However, my local pharmacy has said in the past that it can have compounded scripts sent to the one in Newcastle (my old doctor gave me a compounded vitamin script before she retired) which are then sent back for pickup.

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    • Posted

      I was referred to one in Sydney, a couple of thousand miles from me.  I phoned them, and had to post my original script by snail mail, pay by c/card and received it in about a week.  I also asked to speak to a chemist who knew something about menopause and got some good advice about it.  They used to put a lot of info on the web but have now reduced it so web not so helpful.

       

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  • Posted

    I use Sandrena to top up when my patches run out before their time is up.  Sandrina has 1.0mg of Oestradiol, I don't know what they mean by 0.1% gel. The oestradiol is the important part.

    The amount of gel in the satchets is too much for a wrist - the pharmacist obviously has never had to use it.  I apply it to my abdomen, buttocks, thighs (never above the waist) - that's how far it spreads.

    Estraderm MX 100 patches each contain 3mg of oestradiol and are meant to last you 3.5 days, so they are less than a daily gel.  Patches do not pass through the liver either, and should be placed on fatty areas of the abdomen, buttocks, hips, thighs, not above the waist.

    But for some reason, the patches now peel off quite soon in the shower more than they used to.  Perhaps they have changed the 'glue' because people have complained about getting rashes.  I have resorted to taping them on with micropore, which gives me a rash!

    Oral dosages have to be greater because not all of it reaches the target after the liver deals with it.

    I have gone back to oestradiol pellet implants but I don't think they are as good as they used to be either.  I have to get them from a compound chemist with a script from my gp.  They just don't last as long as they used to.  Ideally they are better - saves having to mess around every day.

    Good luck with it.

     

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    • Posted

      I am waiting for my latest pellet implant to kick in, that is why I am still messing around with patches and gels!!!!

      Also, gels and patches should be applied to fatty parts of your body, not a tendony, veiny wrist.  If you go down the pellet implant path, it should also be implanted in a fatty area of your abdomen.

       

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    • Posted

      Thank you for that small wealth of information smile. No one really explained what to do when it was decided to change me over, I was given a choice of patch or gel. I sort of went with the gel, because in the past I've often had dermatitis from adhesives.

      I've been applying it to my wrist and about halfway to my elbow as was suggested. Honestly I'm not surprised if the pharmacist hasn't used it, it seems to be a fairly male dominated industry (said pharmacist was male). Surely stuff like this should be common knowledge given the number of women taking hrt *sighs*.

      Taking your advice, I'll start applying it to fattier areas. I'm thinking thighs are possibly the best bet and hopefully that'll tone down the spikes and dips. As for pellets, didn't really know they existed. How long do they last for?

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    • Posted

      When the pellets were available on prescription from chemists, a 100 mg? was said to last 12 months.  However, they would only last 9 months for me.

      The ones that I have been getting from a compound chemist last much less than that, and eventually I was told by the chemist that they are only meant to last 4-6 months.  I do find them much more convenient though, and the body takes only what it needs.  But I have worked out that my body is very oestrogen needy and I use it up quickly, as I do the patches and gels (twice a day).  Now I know when the pellet is running out.

      First I get head sweats, and sometimes full body sweats at night (for a long time I put that down to summer but they have occurred in the middle of winter too).  The confirming symptoms are when I suddenly feel a wave of anxiety or agitation or depression come over me.  This make me realise that the oestrogen has run out.

      The pellets take me 3 weeks to kick in and while I am waiting I use the patches and gel. I know it is working when I get a 'surge' in the breasts, so I stop the patches and gel and let the pellet take over.

       

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    • Posted

      Hi I use sandrena gel...I think you have been misinformed as it doesn't get applied to the wrist it is meant to be applied to ur inside forearm the size of the spread is meant to be 2 times ur hand size...so basically from your wrist nearly up to your bend (elbow) I apologize for not knowing body part names . To avoid irritation or low absorption you swap arms daily. Not sure if this helps

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