Selincro 2 weeks in

Hi Joanna,

I value your opinion above all else and it gives me hope to read your post. In essence are you saying it will take at least 6 months to see a markable difference?

I agree with the honeymoon period, at first you don't feel actually well enough to drink more than you should - again this contradicts what my prescriber said, she said Selincro presents no side effects... I can honestly say I experienced quite a few and persevered.

No side effects would be lovely!!  I wish. Sure there will be some lucky folk who don't get anything remarkable in terms of SE's, but if I had a pound for every question/email etc I've answered about side effects on Selincro, I'd be a very rich woman indeed

Improvment is quite often gradual with and downs along the way.  Those figures quoted were at the 6 month mark, but are what people reported at 6 months wouldn't have just happened a week or so before.  They more likely had some changes happening from a month or so.

Remember to work with it, drink mindfully and ask yourself if you really want the next drink. The 'pull' of the alcohol will slowly loosen and you can gently help it along in lots of little ways - start drinking a little later, finish earlier, put the bottle back in the fridge between drinks etc.

Another little suggestion is to look at which days/evenings you drink most.  Then focus on that one night of the week and plan to drink a drink or two less that session.

You will be surprised how much these little changes add up over the weeks!

Most of all, just relax at the moment and let the pill do it's work.  There is no rush.  This is a treatment that may take months, for some even longer than 6 months.  Everyone is different and that is perfectly ok

It HAS been our experience that alcohol consumption has reduced immediately when we have treated clients with TSM. If this wasn't the case, we would have issues when we detox a person, then start them on TSM, if they went back up to a bottle of spirits a day, as this would mean that another detox would be required.

BK522. I am sorry if you have already answered this question, but you are not drinking outside the window of opportunity are you? I mean more than 8 hours after you had your first drink. If your opioid receptors are stimulated at all, that can affect how quickly your body gets the message that drinking won't give you the same reward.

I just wanted to check that with you.

This is very interesting, Paul.  Thanks!

Do you think this might be anything to do with someone having been detoxed first?   For those who contact me, they have a current drinking routine that hasn't yet been broken (if I have explained that appropriately) and I wonder if this is why I have had so few who have had this initial immediate reduction AND maintained it.

No Paul, take my tablet at 3:30pm usually, first drink at 5:45pm and I'm finished by 9pm at the very latest.

Well, when we do a detox with a person, they have a week in which they are not drinking at all while they go through the detox. They then start on Naltrexone or Nalmefene and re-introduce alcohol. In the vast majprity of cases, the alcohol consumption gets nowhere near what it was before detox.

We don't have sufficent data from studies to know if a period (just a few days) of abstinence before starting TSM makes a difference to how the Opioid receptors respond to the drug.

People who require a detox are normally drinking a lot more than those who don't. They are also drinking every day. I wonder if the effect of Naltrexone or Nalmefene is stronger on those opioid receptors which have been subject to higher amounts of alcohol.

A story which some people here might find interesting. I had a client who had undergone detox. She was terrified of doing that first alcohol free day which we encourage our clients to do as soon as they feel they can. She got herself prepared and said to me 'I am ready and will try tomorrow.' She was worked up about it until the time that she would normally start drinking had passed. Then she got watching something on television and completely forgot that she wasn't drinking. She told me the next day that it was so easy that she was going to do a second alcohol free day, which she did that day with no problems at all. This was about 6 weeks ago (6 weeks after she had started TSM)

I spoke to her last week and she had suddenly thought 'when did I last drink?' and worked it out that she had done 8 days alcohol free. So she is now 12 weeks in and forgetting to think about alcohol. She had a serious problem with heavy drinking every day of her life for years.

The point of me saying this is that the first alcohol-free day is very important for those who have a daily drinking habit. It is normally much easier to achieve than they expect it to be and it is worth getting under your belt as soon as you believe you can do it. Once this is done and the belief is there that it is possible, and even 'easy.' Progress can be made much quicker.

 

BK522. How much are you drinking in that period of just over three hours?

13 units. So a bottle of wine and one of the miniature bottles you can get in the shops.

Hello Paul,

I am so inspired by your sharing the success of your client, with the alcohol-free day.  I know that it will be a huge step forward, in my journey to recovery, when I can achieve one alcohol-free day.  I am at Day14 with Selincro.  I did not detox before starting it.  My Units were 20 every day, two bottles of wine.  I drank them in a short time. As fast as I could, I suppose.  I am going to wait until my 28 tablets are taken, until I consider the alcohol-free day.  I want to be realistic.  I am learning a lot on this Forum.  I drink 10 Units most days, now.  One bottle of wine.  I am trying the miniature bottles now, to try to reduce further.  It is so difficult.  The habit is so ingrained.  4 miniatures=1 bottle.  I had them at home, one day...full of good intentions..... then drank the lot, 20 Units.  Taking time to plan strategies is another big learning curve.  Thank you for sharing that information about alcohol-free days.  

Alonangel 🎇

It might be worth trying to drop the miniature bottle and seeing if that makes any difference to you. One way might be to start drinking a little later.

Yes. Alonangel. We have also discovered that people have a tendency to take their pill, wait the two hours with Nalmefene (1 hour with Naltrexone) and then, the second that waiting time is up, grab their bottle and go for it, big time It's perfectly natural for people with Alcohol Use Disorder to do this as they have grown accustomed to doing that to reach the level of alcohol that hits the spot for them.

However, on The Sinclair Method, you need to allow the body to recognise that it isn't getting the hit and it doesn't matter how much or how fast you drink, it won't get the hit. Therefore, it is worth taking the first drink more slowly and letting the body realise that the same reward isn't being gained, if that isn't what you are already doing.

Definitely Paul, I know that's the next step I have to achieve... Major will power needed though.

I get in from work and the first thing I want to do is start my wine. The thought of not having that extra little bottle is also daunting, I'm not sure if this makes sense but I feel like I don't get "drunk enough" on just one bottle. The bottle and one miniature bottle gives me just that extra inch of drunkedness I'm accustomed too and enjoy.

Thanks, Paul.  I try to slow it, every day.  I rarely succeed.  Your "waiting time" comment is sooooo spot on ! 🙂🙃  You really identify with "the ingrained  behaviour".  I don't know how to accept the lack of "hit".  I keep trying for it.....despite the Selincro stopping it, now.  I want to work with the medication.  BUT..... I feel that part of me is fighting it.  I don't want to die because of alcohol.  I have got the book that Joanna recommended, I have had it for several days.  I am just opening the cardboard wrapping, now,  "The Cure For Alcoholism".

I just need to actually read it.  I wish that life was as simple as logic.  I don't really manage logic !  Wish me luck...but, don't wave me goodbye.

You are doing wonderful work.  

Alonangel 🎇

The lack of hit is something people sometimes struggle with. It is important to remember that, due to your illness, that hit is something you have become accustomed to as the ONLY thing that makes you feel better. But the evil trick is that it DOESN'T make you feel better. The problems it brings make you feel far worse overall.

The hit you get from alcohol is something which occurs from many other activities too. To list a few: Exercise, extreme sports, riding rollercoasters, eating certain sweet and spicy foods, having sex, cuddling babies, stroking animals....

It is worth doing other activities which give you this hit when you have NOT got a pill in your system. The enjoyment of such activities may be affected while you have Selincro active in your body. By organising your day into drinking and non-drinking activities, you can time your pill so that you can get your pleasure from life (your hit) in other ways. For example, by going to the gym before taking your pill, then taking your pill and drinking two hours after that.

There are a few parts of the habit that you can "fiddle with" to see if you can find a soft spot. Like Paul says, the start time is one, even delaying by 10 or 15 minutes if you can. Not keeping the drink with you is another, or at lest not holding it in your hand. Setting a limit on the number of units, setting an ending time. There's no "right way", you're just looking for some part of the habit it's easiest to chip away at, whichever one is easiest for you. Just keep on looking for it, the one place, the other, checking to see if you can find the "soft spot", because it's going to show up.

BK, keep working on it. Even delaying by 10 or 15 minutes at first. Another thing might be not keeping the drink in your hand. Put it down and get to some small project that you can knock out quickly, then come back and have a sip. That's how I started out. Then it became easier to delay the start time. It's like you're telling the habit "Ok, ok, I'll get you your drink in a little bit, just hold on, willya?". 

"We don't have sufficent data from studies to know if a period (just a few days) of abstinence before starting TSM makes a difference to how the Opioid receptors respond to the drug."

What I've seen in the forums is that frequently (but not always) those that start TSM after a period of abstinence seem to get control very quickly. Anecdotal, but there it is.

It is our experience too. I wish somebody would do a study on it

I don't understand why my reply has gone to be moderated.  What on earth can I have done wrong?  I have just gone for more drink.  I can' t take much more rubbish, in my life.  Units now wrecked. Progress wrecked.  Head  wrecked. 

Not able to deal with this.

Alonangel 🎇

If  you put in a website address, or make a typo that might look like a website address (you forget to put a space after a period, for instance) it could get automatically moderated by Patient's computer system.

 

Paul if there comes the time where you have taken your talent 2 hours before you drink, then you are well aware you will be drinking beyond the 6 hour window should you take another tablet?

Example: you take your tablet at 4pm... Start drinking at 6pm, but you're still drinking at 12 (should you be mindful and take another tablet at 10pm) knowing you were still be drinking so you are covered.

That should read "tablet"

I am not a very Techno Person.  I am very upset that what I thought to be a usual type msg. has been moderated... whatever that is.  Fed up.  Feel like quitting this website.  I am very easily damaged.  I had the nasty comments, now this.  I am not tough enough for this Forum. I will miss the good people. The world is short of them.

Alonangel 🎇

Please don't give up Alonangel, I am here for you and many others. Please stick with this forum and check in. If you would like to private message I would be more than happy to? Keep on keeping on my friend xxx

What gets me, is it doesn't matter how long you have been posting, how many posts or whether you've never posted links that are dodgy, it is automatic and sometimes it takes considerable time before it is released, by which time the thread is dead and everyone has moved on. Or, if it isn't going to be unmodded you are not told.

You end up having to do things like NHS dot co dot uk.

Yeah, it's a pain, but spammers might have a heyday throwing in malicious links or advertising otherwise. If the mods could get to it in an hour or two, that would be a different story. I guess they're trying to fix the "typo" sort of false alarm, but right now it's as close as we get to built-in spellcheck, lol!

Thank you BK522. I have had 20 Units , now. Enough said. I am going to the shop again. I just can't keep it going in the right direction. I am finished.  I can't do this, even with the medication.  God help me.  I never could jump over a hurdle at P.E.  Symbolic?

Thank you for being my friend,

I am not friend material, I hate myself.

Alonangel 🎇

That's what Paper was saying, she got past it. If you want more and can't stop today, that's ok. You're taking the Selinco, you're holding up your part of the bargain. Just keep up with that. If you can moderate, then do it. If you can't today, then you can't today. Just keep up with that one little change (taking the Selinco) and it will turn into big change.

As ADEfree said, if you put any website address in your post or something that automically gets picked as possibly being a link, that happens. That is why normally send any link as a private message. Don't let it worry you, it's happened to most of us at least once.

Oh thank you. I am in big fight with self. 

BK522. If you are talking about nalmefene (Selincro) the approved dose is one tablet (18mg) per day. In the trials they found that many times the daily dose is not dangerous. I'll leave that with you as I can say no more

It does keep the forum spam-free though and that is a good thing.

I didn't send any link. I don't understand what has happened.

Hey Alon I racked up 20 units myself tonight too, but taking solace in ADEfree's response to you, some wise words there.

Hope you're well.

Thanks BK522.  I am ok.  Cold light of day, again.  I could not go for the third bottle last night.  Too upset with all the crying. Blessing in disguise !  I hope you are ok.  Even if we wrecked the Units...we had taken the tablet.  Got to keep with it.  Words in a song, come to mind...the road is long, with many a winding turn, while we're on the way...to where, who knows where?

Another day.  Another try. No turning back, so here I go again.  You, too, will do battle again, today.  Good Luck, my friend.

Alonangel 🎇

Keep going Alon and BK. We all have bad days on this difficult journey. As others know, I've been pretty desperate and shared it on here. Crying is good, it heals the soul..

He's to another day. Keep smiling 😀

Meant here's to another day!!!

Thanks Paper fairy.  I am glad now, that I was in too much distress to go for more wine.  I would have just kept on drinking.  It is dangerous.  I feel crazy. I hope you are ok, my friend.  Have a good day, fighting the demon !

Alonangel🎇