Seriously addicted to codeine - please help

Sadly physical dependence, and all the nasty stuff it brings, happens within about a month. Your not making a meal of it, it's just as hard reducing from small amounts as large - all the symptoms you describe are spot on. Feels like hell when you don't get the dose rock steady as you drift in and out of withdrawal.

Sounds like you need to work out how to get off them and see what pain remains after that.

Hi

Please take control of this before it becomes a real problem.

How you speak is exactly how I started taking them 3 years ago.

I found a source, and a source that was only codiene - I could take as many as I wanted.

I ended up in such a bad place.  i was taking over 600mg a day in the end plus tramadol on top.

I have just been through a hellish detox (read my discussion 'I start detox today'.

I am 16 days codeine free however I am now on subutex.   I started on 4mg and am down to 2.6.  But it's hard. Really hard.

I used to love that feeling of warmth and all my worries dont seem to bad, I had a better level of concentration and I was happy and chatty.

However this does NOT last! You need more and more and more until you end up in a place where the ONLY reason you take it is to not go in to withdrawal - it stops doing anything nice no matter how much you take.

So then you end up in my position.

If you need any advice on cutting down I can try and help you

Please do not go down the road I did x

 

Hi Sue and Oly

many thanks for your replies. My brain has been going in and out of some weird stupor, somtimes I think I have the answer , like now, give up codeine, and the next minute or hour i seem to change my mind again and think its not too bad. Then I take the Codeine and everything seems better and my concerns disappear. Then they come up again and round it goes. What triggered my suspicion was that i started checking out other sources for codeine and feeling secretive about it. Today is the first time that I looked at this forum more thoroughly and thought, yep, must try and do something about this. I was wondering whether to buy some over the counter codeine containing painkillers which contain less codeine and cut down that way or whether to talk to the GP and get better help.

Well done, Sue, you are a real star for managing to get down from 600. I think i was on the same road, but don't know whether I can be as strong as you. My mind and body are already all over the place and at the moment all i want to do is lie down, get the pills down and unwind. I don't think I should just stop them so maybe tonight I will just do the 2 plus one later again. Any help you can give cutting them down would be greatly appreciated!!!

Thank you.  It has taken me a long time to get here I think I knew it was a problem for 2 and a half years, I just let it get worse and worse.  A lot going on in my personal life that was really horrid and they took all that away.

I think you have to work out why you are taking them in the first place?  Is your back as bad? Could you try another non-opiate painkiller?  You say you can't wait to take them to unwind.  Sounds to me like you have a lot going on and you are struggling to relax.

Next time when you decide to cut down replace it with something.  For me it was depression and a lost my mum.  I am now trying to find other ways to cope.  Otherwise you might be able to stop but you might not stay stopped.I have a counsellor and I am doing some CBT.  i am seeing my doctor weekly and he has put me on some new really good antidepressants - sertaline.

I probablyshould not of given up the codiene at exactly the same time as swapping antidepressants as it has made the whole experience worse.  i should of got my mental health and stable as possible then tried.

I am also looking into mindfullness and meditation and even yoga.

You really are at the crossroads, your dependance from what you are taking right now is not huge.

I didn't end up going to work.  My doctor thought I needed anther week and I def do!

Have you told anyone you think this may be a problem?

My partner and most of my friends know.  I told my dad just as I was about to start detox.   Even my work knows a bit.

Do you have people to support you? We bought a safe at one point.  I would write out how I was going to cut down and then my partner would give me what I was alllowed for the day.  Its a good idea but be prepared for some arguements if you are like me!

Oh and do speak to your dr - they have been prescribing it.  Say you feel you are becoming dependant and then they will help you where they can

Hi Sue

i had a breakdown 2.5 years ago, post traumatic stress, depression and anxiety. For 6 months it was just one bad thing after another, i coped and coped and coped and broke. 4 days not sleep, hallucinations, the works, was put on antidepressants Mirtzepine which stopped everythiñg in its tracks and just left me totally depressed. Weaned myself down to 15mg after one year as i felt they weren't helping, tried several different antidepessants which i always had very bad reactions to, including sertraline.so i have stopped hoping to find a better antidepr. Started to get pins and needles, weird internal sensations which doctors said was ibs. Was put on laxatives which gave me diarrhoea for a year. When i queried this was told I had a bug, go away. Queried it several months later with a different GP was told the laxative was too strong and were causing diarrhoea. So can't say that i trust doctors or psychiatrists that much as i always get bad side effects and they then get poopoohed. I live on my own and have few friends so don't really have a safety net. I had to give up work 2.5 years ago and seem to be getting worse instead of better. I hardly go out now, only to walk the dogs or nip to the shop. Crap really, but the codeine in the evening helps! Wish i could feel that sane during the day. Which is why i wonder whether it isn't the drugs in the first place that are making me go around in circles. Hence my attempt to stop them.

Hope you are enjoying some of the nice weather we are having. The garden is one of my small pleasure although i can't do as much as i would like to without feeling really rough again afterwards.

cheers Cintapoppy

Hi Sue, how is day 16 for you? I'm on day 16 of no MST, just starting to feel good now - shakes going, achy legs fading, stomach calm, just very tired from not much sleep.

Don't know if it helps but my mental state is vastly improved now I'm off the Morphine, buzzing with energy and lots of ideas for fun are returning.

I was iagnosed with depression at 15 and went in to hospital for 6 months because of it.  I've struggled with it all my life but mostly to be honest I have self medicatedwith recreational drugs - just to feel better.

I have tried CBT before but I think I want this more now.

Some say there is a drug that works out there for all of us.  I read something th eother day that said only 50% of people can be cured by antidepressants.

Trouble is the other cure is a lot harder.  Have you reas any self-help books on depression - I have tons! But I have never once tried any of the special diets or taken any notice of the fact that in ALL trials exercise has the most effect. 

Is there a different dr you could see at your surgery?  I have seen some awful dr' but also some great dr's.

Do you want to get back to work at some point?  Coul dyou volunteer somewhere 1 afternoon a week - I love animals  - si I would choose to help out at a dog rescue place.  You may find getting out starts to help - you have other pleasures other than your evening treat

All just suggestions - I am far too lazy to take my own advice! But I must say no matter how much I don't want to go to work it does help me.

Why do you feel rough after doing your garden? Thats great that you have something you get pleasure from.  Could you get some non-opiate painkillers and then that would help your back and you could do your grden

Hi Sue, thanks for all your suggestions. I feel so dreadful most days that doing anything beyond the gentle pottering about becomes stressful. I looked for new home insurance and was a nervous wreck for the next day. Concentration is bad, and anything official seems to send me into a panic. In the past i dealt with this with my eyes closed, now its a major enterprise. Daft, I know but i can't help it at the moment. I haven't driven for 4 months as I have had a panic attack and hyperventilate in the car. Not a great space to be in. And i am a good competent driver, never had a problem. Now its madness that I can't even drive to the supermarket. After the codeine i think to orrow if will drive, then to orrow comes and i feel not safe, either doped up or shaky and anxious, so not safe to drive. Thats why in the first instamce i think i need to come off these tablets and then reassess what i can and can't do. Work in the past has 'helped' me by not addressing my own problems. I treated other people, made them better (i was an acupuncturist and NLP practitioner) and ignored my own needs. I don't think I can treat any more, have done this for 26 years and may just be suffering from burnout or patient fatigue apart from everything else. Their need was always greater than mine, and now I don't want to know about other peoples problems unless there is a reciprocal interchange like on this forum or with friends. But who knows, maybe that could change too.

Regarding gardening and overdoi g it and my back i keep wondering whether activity and coffee is 'cutting through' the effects of the residual codeine in my system from the night before and that's why i am getting those weird symptoms, tight back, pins and needs, electic shocks, weird internal sensations, panic attacs etc etc. So again, the only way to find out is to come off them. What do you think? Cheers Cintapoppy

I'm really happy for you - nearly there - however you did it the brave way.  I took subutex to ease my withdrawals which means i dont feel as bad as you but for longer - so not too great yet.

Why were you on it? Were you okay before you started taking them? I was depressed before so expect to stay depressed off them - thats why I have a lot more work to do before I am better.

Thanks for asking, I reckon I shoudl be off the sub's completely by the end of May, got to do it slowly cos I'm back to work next week

I smashed myself to bits on a motorbike last September - broken back, sternum, ribs, fractured neck etc.etc. so lots and lots of Morphine for 7 months and loads of other stuff. I ended up pretty depressed but am pretty sure that was my up and down Morphine doses at the time. I reduced down to 50mg/day the hard way but quit the last whilst taking Lofexidine/Britoflex - brilliant stuff, no withdrawal really - I just finished it a few days earlier than I should have so have only had minor symptoms for a few days.

I've knocked the Citalopram and Zopiclone on the head now too - feels both odd and wonderful to be myself again :-)

Congratulations and well done! What side effect did you get when you where doing it on your own, if you don't mind me asking.Thanks, Cintapoppy

Stomach collapse, all body aching (particularly legs), inability to leave the sofa, serious depression and suicidal thoughts (can't take it feeling), tremors and shakes, no appetite, insomnia, no energy at all, bad mood, lots of pain etc.etc. For me it builds up and up for 7 days then Plato's a bit for another 7, and then you're on your way to good times. 18 days and I'd feel good again. Another 2 weeks the bodies natural pain management kicks in again - for me the back pain after stopping has been evil but now seems to be going away without pain meds. A lot of Pilates, physio stretches, yoga and lying on my back waving my arms about has been key for that - all that time lying about on Morphine had caused mayhem to my posture and back muscles but I hadn't noticed.

Hi, thanks for letting me know. The symtoms sound familiar although i guess that yours would have been a hundred times worse from what i feel on a daily basis. I think my body is craving more of the codeine and thats why i am on the merry-go-round. Last week i was suicidal and in retrospect i wish i had just taken the blasted tablets before that attack as all the warning signs were there for a couple of hours. Still, i didn't and maybe that experience was what I needed to get my head around the drug problem. I think a lot of my back problems are from resting too much, especially during the winter, and not enough movement. Thank you for your response, and I hope that your road to full recovery will be a smooth one from now on.

Having been reducing since Christmas - there is no worse, withdrawal from Opiates is nasty, doesn't matter how big or shall the reduction, it just sucks for the best part of 3 weeks.

Sounds like you have some similar issues to me - it's hard to feel pain and act on it positively when your brain is fried on pain killers. Raw pain with no pain killers has really made me get active and on it for the first time since before Christmas and it's working pretty fast.

You mentioned driving and prety much discribed a situation where you have no reason to not drive except anxiety.  I have had similar situations.  I live in Wisconsin in the US.  I relapsed last spring and found myself on the roller coaster all summer.  As fall started to get close i found myself having dread and extreme anxiety about winter.  We have somewhat harsh winters here it commonly gets down to -20 degrees F.  Cold, but i have servived 32 winters and never faced such horrable anxiety about it.  I went into a treatment program in october and as my head started to clear and the drugs were going away it started snowing just lightly.  I took a big deep breath of the cold air and almost started crying because it was fine- no anxiety no fear.  I felt like i could handle it.  My point i guess is that we use the drugs for certain things and they work how ever they work.  At first they work great but we adjust.  Our bodies compensate so we need more and more.  We cross the threashold into addiction and that chemical becomes servival.  As I became more and more dependent at the same time I was loosing peices of me that used to be what helped me survive.  This is just the way I see it-  you rely on that drug for all your emotional needs.  It makes you feel safe, it makes you feel better when your upset, it makes you happy (if you have enough), it quiets the voices in your head that you are not content with--- ie self asteem, belonging, alters your morals.  The drug does everything.  So when i go get in my car and realize the resposibilty i have and the drugs not there to say "hey your good man" I start to doubt myself and it ends up snowballing into panic.  Anyway i apoligize if i have rambled i hope it is something some people can relate too.  My last relapse i learned that there is always a lower low, no matter how far down you have been in the past there is always a new deeper hole to fall in.  One more quick note.  If you look back over the period of time you have been using, can you see along the way how parts of you faded away?  At first the drug helped make all those things about you better then the drug filled those places.  Maybe you used to like going to a movie, but the drug highjacks that enjoyment so either you need the drug to get through the movie or you say screw the movie ill just stay home with my wonderful bottle of pills, or booze, or substance.  Hopefully at least one out there feels a little better knowing I am just like them and WE ARE ALL OK.  Thanks

Hi, your summary has hit the nails on the head. So many bits of me have dropped away, and when i couldn't even cook a simple meal once every 2 weeks for a friend and watch tv with him for a couple of hours i started to think that I was really bad. I knew in the back of my mind that if i took the pills earlier in the day I might be fine, but I didn't want to increase the dose, knowing they were addictive. So I would have to cancel, mainly because my boewels were in upheaval and I couldn't sit still for any length of time. I felt sorry for him because I knew he always looked forward to a good home cooked meal and some company. He is 78 and his wife died a few years back so I had always made a point on checking up on him. Now I feel I am the sick one and whilst the symptons are real, and sometimes unbearable, I think I need to do something about this. It only dawned on me over the last few days that it might be the Codeine.

I was on the verge of selling my car over the weekend but maybe I will hold off now. The problem with thinking is I can't seem to make decisions. One minute yes, the next minute no.

Thank you for your reply, it is reassuring to know that that is actually the effect of this pill, creeping up on us without us being consciously aware of it.They shouldn't be given out like smarties, what are doctors thinking???

Good Luck and all the best

I really want you to know that you are in a really good place right now.  I imagine that seems like an absurd thought but it is true.  Your hurting and you are confused, you know something is wrong but you arent sure what.  The addicted part of you will tell you that your not trying hard enough or that you are a bad person.  That you hurt people and you should never be forgeven.  I talk about that part of me this way because it really is not me, its not who i really am.  It is like you have two personalities not because your crazy but because something has taken over and supressed a lot of who you are.  Dont take all that weight and say "I should have known better!" "I am an idiot for letting myself become this, I deserve my misery".  I have done that before and it does not work.  Rarely does putting yourself down result in possitve outcomes.  It is ok to feel bad or frustrated or just plain bewildered.  By posting on here about your most personal struggle.  Something you probobly feel like if people close to you knew, they would hate you or scold you.  Addiction Is one hell of a POWERFUL desease. (cunning, baffleing, and powerful, if you try meeting like narcotics anonymouse you will hear things like that).  What you have done by asking for help is actually a bit of a miricle.  I am not sure how addiction is veiwed in the UK but here, if you really are an addict, there are basically 4 options,  Jails, institutions, or death.  If you are an addict and you dont treat the desease it will end with one of those 3 things,  sadly many fall into the death catagory.  The forth and most important option is recovery.  My point in writting to you again was not to scare you or try to tell you how important any of your choices are or what choices to take.  I want to write you again to tell you how amazing you are for asking for help, setting aside your pride, and pushing past the guilt or shame that makes you want to keep your secret.  For the vast majority of addicts seeking help is one of the last things they want to do.  Most have their entire lives fall apart and their bodies sufer a great deal.  It isnt until all thats left is them and there drug that they see the real problem.  You have an amazing opportunity now.  You have opened this door and it is a heavy door but you did it.  That is really amazing and I am proud of what you have already done.  Getting better can be hard in many different ways, sometimes the first step is the hardist but it is also the most important.  If I were around you I would hug you or shake your hand (whatever feels the most appropriate).  Thank you for being here.  Know also no matter what you choose to do next, there is a 32 year old guy in Wisconsin that cares and will not judge regardless of what happens next.  I hope your feeling some hope its ok however you feel.  Please feel free to ask me questions I will be open and honest.    

Hi RJ, thank you for your support and comments, they certainly resonate with me. This is an up and down process, and whilst i am pleased I dropped 30mg last night I can feel the effects today and started wanting to give up giving up. Instead I searched for more answers, what supplements might help, whether i should speak to GP and generally trying to keep focused. I just spoke to a pharmacist who also said I should see the GP and work out a realistic strategy. I only have 30mg tablets so its good to see the GP even if its only for them to give me 15mg doses so I can wean off more gently. The plan is to bite the bullet and phone them tomorrow. Thanks for your support!

Awesome! 

Sue, does subutex help with pain as well?  I'm in a double quandry that I know I'm addicted/dependent on opiate painkillers but I also suffer from  chronic pain.  I have moved from Endone to the Norspan 10 patch but I'm finding I'm still popping a dozen panadol/codeine tablets a day whether I need them or not.  I don't know whether it's my anxiety, habit or addiction (probably all three).  I know taking the codeine is the worst thing I should be doing as in the long term opiates actually cause anxiety but I cannot seem to shake them even though I'm wearing a patch.

Opiates are cruel, they are great at pain killing for a few months and then your bodies pain receptors start to malfunction. After 3 or 4 months it's hard to distinguish between pain and withdrawal. After stopping opiates it takes weeks/months for your bodies natural pain management to start working properly. Chronic pain is really hard to deal with.

In this context any change in pain management can be beneficial. Ideally a sit down with the pain management people would help but your mileage may vary.