Spinal operation

5 hours after op I'm feeling really good in arms. Pain I had for a long time is gone. Happy? Yes.

Concerned what surgeon said prior to operation but will see him before I go home to discuss what he meant about different levels need surgical attention.

For now I'm enjoying this feeling of no pain.

Just like to thank everyone here who's read my posts and a big thank you for all the support to everyone. My wish for all is to be pain free and live a wonderful life knowing your support has helped.

Hi. After so long every minute of everyday in extreme pain it is impossible to be positive. Today after the operation I never even gave a thought that pain relief would be instant. I've always said I'd win the lotto and today I did exactly that in no pain in my arms. I'm so happy lifting a cup or my phone is pain free. I've cried tears of joy I could go on and on saying how I feel.

But here it comes always there lol lol My scan in March as surgeon told me showed four more discs herniated. There effects are not clear as with C5-C6 to C6-C7 which had discs removed and composite cage fitted will fuse together into one. Surgeon indicated this could have effect on the four herniated. Poss not get any pain from those discs or the opposite. Mir scan might be needed or just an assessment at appointment at eight weeks after operation.

After the events of today I remain positive and totally committed to get well sooner rather than later.

I've never been one for sharing info. This has changed me as if I can tell my Storey here and others read, it may help them understand what stenosis is and the effects on pain. But saying that no ones pain is the same. It hurts so much others who have not expericenced it will never fully understand its intense effects on normal daily routines that get turned upside down and almost impossible to do. Not to mention the lose of sleep, for me the aggressiveness I feel and bad temper taking it out on the people I love. Further updates to be added when I am home and feeling better.

Hi starryeyes83

I think you need an mr scan straight away. I've had two discs replaced in my neck and later that day when I woke up from surgery the pain my arms very totally gone.

Surgeon tells me I have to go back for two more to be replaced next year. As multi levels are not something they recommend here in Norway.

My surgeon gave me a detailed description 9 months before operating telling me advantages I would gain by having it done.

All my discs were herniated which trapped the nerves.

My

Lower spine is up for a discussion between my surgeon and surgeon at local hospital who is operating on me. My surgeon says disc needs to be fused but surgeon who doing op disagrees. I'm meeting him soon to discuss but he's doing what I've read in two reports I've seen and I'm agreeing with surgeon who done my neck.

That is the beauty of Norway they don't do what your not happy with. If he refuses then I'll have to take it further with what we call helsenorge. They are in charge of all doctors.

I think you also need to ask and have it in detail what benefits you'll get and are there any side effects to what they propose.

Good luck let me know how you get on. Regards John.

Thanks for your reply John. I have an MRI booked on the 17th of this month and then my specialist said he would recall me to put an action plan in place. When I saw him he took X-rays and did specific blood tests. I had just had an MRI done when I was admitted to hospital but he said he wanted a more in depth one and also the hospital hadn't scanned my sacroiliac joint which as I said, he thinks I may have an issue with this.

its just the sitting and waiting I find frustrating as I feel life had come to a holt! 

But thanks again for your response

Abbey

Hi reading between the lines....wonder how they missed that that bone was so worn the second around you seeing this surgeon. Should he not have seen it the first time round? I thought that MRIs are 3 dimensional? I might be wrong so I am sure someone will correct me. There are a lot of suffers on patient and were you not told about artificial disc replacement..

You sure do adapt. Good luck you are so young think my daughter was 25 or so and she has learnt to do things a different way by a physio and she has such good deportment......but.......her job is to inspect games for the public to play so not an ideal sitting around all day.

When do you have your next appt?

Thank you for your message.

when I started with symptoms again, the clinic I was attending wasn't listening so I went for a second opinion to a different hospital. I had an MRI and he told me what was left of my disc was worn and I would eventually need surgery. He did talk briefly about replacing the disc but due to my age to try and leave it as long as possible. He was however going to book in me for some steroid injections but early 2009 I actually fell pregnant.

over the years I have tdied many different drugs, physio, exercises etc and just basically had to learn to tolerate the pain and adapt my life. I have bad flare ups now and again but in March it was just like being back at the beginning and then to be told I had another prolapsed disc in my neck, I was gutted. 

I have now seen a back specialist and he basically is starting from scratch with me. He's not interested in what anyone else has said, he wants to come to his own conclusion. He's sending me for another MRI as he thinks I have an issue with my sacroiliac joint also. He said once he gets the X-ray, blood and MRI results he will call me back to put an action plan in place. The only thing he asked me goth ink about and look into was the antibiotic treatment for the modic changes I have now been diagnosed with.

My life just currently feels like it's come to a holt and everyone is suffering. I am better than I was in March as I've just about got the pain under control but I cannot sit down square on my bum for live nor money!

I'll put my strong hat on and keep going!

Hi Abbey

That's really good news a deep scan is being done. My problems were only found after a deep scan were done as the first one only revealed a prolapse on L4 - L5 disc.

The second scan which was a deep one revealed I had stenosis to C5-C6 and a further scan requested by surgeon one month before op showed more discs to be replaced in neck. But as surgeon said here they don't do multi levels in one go die to instability with neck after op. Hence I have to go through more operations at later date.

But I'm pleased and fingers crossed they find and cure you.

Regards

John.

Hi Enna.

Not sure how a scan misses. As the surgeon says it's the disc were looking at not the bone a lot of back pain is caused by nerves trapped or restricted. My scan showed the discs protruding into the spinal column that I can see on the scan myself. I'm like a dog with a bone I keep gnawing away until the surgeon sat there brought up the scan and showed me what they look for. Alignment of vertebra and disc thickness and if it's herniated. Mine were dry and lost their softness shock absorber effect. Or has he put it worn out.

Hope that helps but again as he said everyone is different.

Regards

John.

Hi Abby.

Sorry but what's age got to do with it. One question I'd ask. If disc needed replacing then why have they not done it. Is the disc restricting the nerve?

My surgeon told me I could go down the road of physio drugs first but when you've got so much pain weakness in grip restricted movement in neck numbness in thumbs aching in upper arms not sleeping through pain. It's time to surgically help you. And that's what he did. It took me just over three years also I had help from my wife as she a head nurse at my local hospital and she stirred a lot of people up to get me in quickly.

So I feel sorry for anyone who has back pain it's not nice. I can tolerate a lot of pain but when I kept breaking down crying my wife got on phone to anyone and everyone.

Please be positive my fingers are crossed for you that they get you cured quickly not only for you but for your family.

Regards

John.

Thanks for your message John, I admire you for all you've been through and for what you have to come.

As for my age, over here it has always played a part in my treatment /care. When I first presented with problems in 2007, nobody was interested. No matter who I saw they thought I was a young girl with a bad back and it would resolve. When I was admitted to hospital due to pain, the Dr basically told my mum that they couldn't justify the cost of scanning me due to my age and that my symptoms were not severe enough. This carried on for about two months, all the time I was getting worse. I saw an orthopaedic consultant who also wrote me off.

By December 2007 I was pretty much bed ridden due to the pain and severe sciatica down my left leg and was drugged up to the hills. At the time my dr was fantastic and did a home visit without being called and he was appalled at the state I was in. He rang the orthopaedic consultant who had dismissed me and spoke to him directly. The next day I was sent for an urgent MRI and was in seen in his clinic by the end of the week to be told I had a severe prolapsed disc which was trapping my nerve. I was operated on in the January 2008. 

Unfortunately due to them leaving me for so long, I have nerve damage down my left leg with considerable weakness.

so you see, for me, I'm used to people writing me off and saying " oh well you're terribly young to be having this and this done". I now have severe trust issues with whoever I see as I fear they will give up on me.

Something I was told in 2012 after I had been referred to pain management and scanned again was that I had terrible scar tissue. The consultant agreed that what was left of my disc was worn but he said at that time it was not causing any damage nor was it pressing on anything so he said the majority of my pain was coming from the scar tissue. He said it had all become knotted and this was the problem.

Out of curiosity would you mind me asking how big your scar is and whether you were operated on by a neurosurgeon?

People seem amazed that it was in fact an orthopaedic surgeon that dealt with me and also some professionals have been gobsmacked at my scar. I have a 5-6" scar which isn't even straight!

If only what we go through was more visible to others, maybe people would be more understanding!

Take care

Abbey 😀

i could count of two hands the people drs, etc who hadn't cared less about me too whats wrong with them.   Walton pain clinic was the worst, wouldn't even look at me, said that he couldn't do anything and gave my partner a leaflet on how to care for someone in pain.  He needs to be sacked I will name he was a Dr Wiles.  Rubbish.  My home drs, pain drs (he said that I jumped up quick when it was my turn to see him - got it in writing too) or words to that affect.  No-one has done that to me in spain and they have done what your new dr has done, started from the beginning....Yes I am much better than I was in England, could be the weather lol.  They are completely different.  I mean if its pay, well everyone gets paid and does the hours so whats so different. Things alter when you are in a professional, and its not all good, so get on with it.  Sorry I know nothing of these strikes I just think if there was a sheet of paper to say what the system they are trying to be asked to do, well we might sympathise with them - there are lots I could say but might get cut off.... Spain (Valencia) has gone under the same things as the UK, specialists specially back ones have gone private - I consulted two who said I should have fusion but such a lot of people I speak to are not happy so don't know what to do yet - I have to go to the pain clinic now for a spine injection so when the results are in for that I might get referred back to Valencia.  There are so many people waiting to see spine doctors here its unbelievable.  I know where the money has gone in Valencia but we don't know where are taxes have gone in the UK

I know what you mean about a hold on your life, Im 73 nearly, but my daughter has the same as me, she fell off her mountain bike and I fell down stairs.so I expect - though I hope not - she will be the same as me.

Where do you live and name your doctor. They need to be named.  Is a microdisectomy the same as decompression except that the cut is smaller than an ordinary decompression - I have a 6inch cut on my back. I think it depends on where the disc is damaged, otherwise you would go through the front.

Many years ago artificial discs were the thing and I know that a golfer in the states was quoted as having one of these X Stops, (the latter sort of lifts the damaged discs up from the nerve) but slowly they are saying that these two are not the thing to do - so what the hell is going to come along and replace them.  I am not sure whether X Stop is even done now and not sure about artificial discs. I'm glad its the sacroiliac joint and not your spine, it is painful. someone suggested that I might have something instead of a disc problem but it isn't its gone on to be a stomach bug lol

I am all for training but they don't even seem to be training either according to my friend on the job unless they are keeping it quiet. I agree that you are probably too young to have artificial discs (and anyway it can affect the lower disc) I think you said you had insurance, wish I had it too late now but.... drs are apt to say they can operate for the money.  I paid cash for my op, and know quite a few people who have done that. We shouldn't have to do it.

Keep going and please come back onto here to let us know who this dr is. If you go onto ADRSupportUK you can see a list of surgeons throughout the UK.  I was going to add a dr someone said was good but for the life of me I can't remember my password.... poor bloke who runs the site has had so many ops and is always so much in pain, I don't know how he carries on.  Determination I think.

All the very best chuck and get better soon

Funny they told me that too, X Raying and MRIs are expensive - I had, wait for it....... the PCT couldn't afford it, it was going bust.  Its absolutely hilarious if it wasn't so horrible

Tell you it must be on a list these things we have, I was told too that I had scar tissue.  I am also wondering if the surgeon who did my decompression found that other discs were knackered but as I paid up front cash he couldn't come back to me before he finished me off, hey you have some other things I can do but I want some more money.  He couldn't do that could he......  Pocket the cash thank you very much. I heard so much about this surgeon Mr Shackleford at Spine Health Warrington that I thought he was the one, but i was worse off afterwards, its only since I came to spain that the medications have been tried and I have a decent life if I take them regularly but even my village dr didn't give me enough particular pill and I had to buy the rest myself. I didn't mind so much considering the state of Valencia health system.  But I think she was thing I might do myself in. Honestly.... I must go. my physio friend is taking me to the dr for lyrica because when I come back from the UK I won't have any.   She's a good en and her husband what they have done for me, side tracked me, introduced me to particular drs etc. Fantastic people are the spanish.

You haven't had a disc replacement have you, can't remember. so much going on and at my age, hell its bad to keep up with you young ens

Yes I know that its the nerves being compressed by the bone, and a micro disceptomy I think is the shaving off the part of the bone that is impinging. In your case, lifting those heavy weights, it probably was the bone saying, oh well I will grow a little more to protect myself.

They should show you the scan at the appointment, all surgeons here have gone that. But.... I went to Benidorm and paid 1,500 euros for X Rays,MRIS and a report.  It took all day lol and out of season !!!

You know we shouldn't be sitting here talking either, posture !!! thats my partner, but have a tablet and type so fast it comes our absolutely crap so then I have to look over what I have written or i forget!!!!  I wonder what you should do to make your bones more supple then.  My daughter did not have an op but was sent to physio she is v careful and picks things up a certain way etc. etc. but she doesn't go to a yoga class which I have given up telling her.  Best thing I ever did.   Some of the exercises I an beat young ens here in Spain. And, hell her job, she sits all day in front of a computer playing games, yep, she she is a phsycologist and sees that games are ok for everyone.  Mad eh?  Got to go to the drs. Imma will be coming for me soon. I have my tablet so wherever I am in the UK I can pick up messages.  So.... what do we do now to keep our bones supple.................

 

What is a deep scan as apposed to an ordinary scan.  Heck I am learning a bit today.

I didn't have any faith in the Norwegian system as my doctor done nothing for me. It's was wife who took me to the local hospital and they transferred me into fredikstad for observation where I was told my three Nero doctors that I ha chronic back ache. Do I looked up chronic back ache it means having pain for more than 12 weeks or longer. That got me angry do I said to doctor don't believe me then do another scan after a day or two they decided to do a deep scan as unknown to me my wife had interfered. So she only small but I think she worried them in what she said as she highly respected in her ward. After that scan they referred me to Oslo where I saw my now surgeon and the rest you know.

As i understand it the bones take up space because of disc looses its ability to support them. In my case discs dried out and gave no support or absorb the movement.

And when the disc dries out it thins that's where the nerves get trapped or at least my understanding.

Have a good day out I'm in garden with my Amos a golden retriever. He's had his play now laying in shade I'm in dun drinking tea.

Have not got a clue it takes same time same machine same noises. Just think it looks deeper into whatever it's scanning. There's lots of web sites on web for explanations of what how and when. I don't believe them but it gives good advice or ideas look em up you never know you may find answer or a clue.

Couldn't get my surgeon on phone he's in surgery. But his office says deeper scan simply put better definition. Think that means more detail. I looked on net it shows two pictures side beside one is more defined on detail.

See I don't believe anyone so I find out myself but in this case I just wanted to see myself.

I hadn't realised you were in Norway, whats the health system like there?

Just come back from the dr dianosed infection of bladder so don't know where I got that from!!

How lovely I bet your dog keeps you sane too, I share a dog with my physio friend, Roly, I sat outside in the sun yesterday and did my regular whistle to the bird and it never answered. Imma just said the bird died, I loved that bird but wouldn't want myself.  Pets give you so much strength and sanity too.  Would love a Westie but not at the moment we came to spain as my partner retired previously a policeman but because I did financial advice he did too but it got touch what you should and shouldn't say etc and we had our place here in Spain so we just packed up don't know why we didn't do it early. I can't say I dislike anything about the place, but still have our place in England rented out.

You looked up everything,  I did too, and I think 10+years down the line whats happening here, no-one is bothering with me either, and I have to say Spanish drs have been a lot better but the drs are supposed to learn from these seminars they go to - what seminars ha ha that was from the mouth of the pain clinic boss here. However, everything has changed now as we have a new hospital and there are something like 10 X Ray and MRI machines - yep, no wonder the place was only built bit by bit and the poor staff have to use old computers.  Everything is money money here, when the new mayor got in in November last year the previous one had hidden bills for millions of euros in his drawer and never paid them.  Valencia, well I won't go there its worse.  I can't understand these people saying there is nothing wrong, whats wrong with them or do you think they are reading X Rays wrong like they did to me.  I have often thought to see if I could sue, its like 10+ years out of your life - in fact I think it is more like over 13 years.

Wages are so tiny here in Spain but I think after a couple of strikes they gave up and were glad that they had a job.  However, they reveal the unemployment figures every month and we keep saying we don't believe the figures.

Just a generalisation, So how do you plump up your discs or maybe if you did it would then interfere with your nerves. 

You know after I paid £7,000 for my decompression I still don't know whether its L4/5 and L3/4.  I was told by his secretary it was L4/5, someone else told me both and that S1 is on its way.  

Dr March held up the X Ray and as I said he was so stressed out with the young man, I have never seen anything like it, screaming and shouting (do I live in a sheltered world?) Dr March said it looked like 1 disc that was out so there you are, everyone contradicts everyone else. But... he did say that I could go back to him but said fusion was dangerous for me.  

I have had so many X Rays, MRIS I have a library lol.  I am now waiting for this injection into my spine, my dr up the road just said the injection is for the facet joints - but I have never heard of anyone having one of these injections working for long.  Anyway, I shouldn't be talking like this moaning gets you nowhere, and we had such a laugh at the drs. Imma doesn't speak English, I don't speak Spanish, and the dr speaks Valenciano (and Spanish but she is a staunch Valenciano)  What a laugh, I had to give a sample, I thought flipping heck thats red, and forgot that I had had a drink of vegetable juice.  We all laughed.  I have such good friends and somehow I can never get to pay them back and actualy don't look forward to going back to England.

When I didn't know what was going on the man who has the website ADRSupportUk helped me a lot and he is in a really painful way. He went to Germany to have an operation (probably they wouldn't do it in the UK) and from then on he has had everything this time double phneumonia.

You sound like me, and then my partner says, don't ask questions, let them tell us, they are the experts, so I have learnt about things as I go along. As I say I have also seen people having new discs, and this and that and now drs wouldn't probably do it.  I didn't tell you but I consulted two surgeons in Valencia. My friend from long time back he works for X Stop or did, came to live in Valencia as it happened and he took me to a surgeon who went private when all the drs were not paid for about 3 months or so. He told me that I should have Fusion with a cage but privately it was 15,000€ and when I came back from the X Rays he upped it to 20,000€. I had already been to a private surgeon and he said the same, fusion with a cage.  And then. Dr March said fusion would be dangerous for me. At least he was honest - or was he???? Did he say that to get rid of me because he was behind with his patient load or was he being truthful. I dunno.   So at the moment we are going along for the ride.   How did you get on with your medication?  

So many generic tablets on the market at the moment and all the same price as the proper ones. The more you look into these things, the more complicated it gets.

So have your cuppa - I will be on the plane to the UK at 8 tonight - its not a holiday. Peter's mother is deteriorating and is 92.

Keep in touch how you are feeling, it does us all good to hear someone getting better, jelous too I expect..... Hope you are not gardening, thats my trick..... just going out to dead head and I end up next day not able to move.

All the best - stroke the dog for me.  I love golden retrievers so loyal Anne

Have a safe flight over here.

I am in North Yorkshire in the UK. I have been to Lancaster Royal Infirmary, Westmorland General Hospital, Preston Royal Infirmary and Airedale hospital. I am now being seen at Gisburn Park Private Hospital but as an NHS patient. 

The Orthopaedic surgeon who operated was Mr Smith at Westmorland hospital but he has since retired. I had a lot of dealings with registrars and yes as you say, who are they to write you off when they are not fully trained.

When my partner took me forr my third check up after my surgery, I was set for telling the dr that my pain was returning and I wasn't happy. The guy I saw wasn't my surgeon but in fact his junior Dr and the rude prat literally didn't even get through the door probably. He looked at some paperwork and said I was doing wonderful and to carry on. Meanwhile I'm sat there trying to tell him something wasn't right. It was after this I went to Airedale hospital for a second opinion.

when I tried going back to see the consultant at Airedale who had actually listened (this was after I had my daughter) I was told he no longer dealt with spine issues. We found out that basically due to NHS cuts, there was no longer any back specialists at any local hospital. If your symptoms are severe enough that a GP/Orthopaedic consultant think you need specialist input, you get referred to see a Neurosurgeon at Preston hospital.

But surprise surprise, when you do go to Preston, you are triaged by a specialist nurse (not Dr) and she basically decides whether you are offered therapy etc or if you are severe enough to see a Neurosurgeon. 

What do you make of that?

I only got as far as seeing her but yet she offered me fusion as an option. Surely if she thought I was severe enough to be offered that, should I have not been scheduled to see the surgeon? How could she possibly be qualified on offering me fusion? At this point, they hadn't even scanned me, they were going off old scan pictures so they didn't even know whether things were the same or if things had got worse.

Sorry I'm babbling, just so frustrated as when I look back through all the hospital letters etc I just feel nobody has taken me seriously.

I hope your trip over here goes well and you manage to help Peters mother out.

Take care

Abbey

Hiya. Yes I've been in Norway now for 7 years married to my Swedish wife.

The system here is good slow but I'd had a good doctor i would have been treated quicker. So I've put complaint into government about him. They are writing to him to find out why he has not done his job better and been more efficient in handling my case.

Cost of moving here is expensive but wages are high. Me I've struggled to get work it like thru don't trust non nationals. As a carpenter builder of 42 years I get work and have worked booked in for summer but with this it going to be a struggle lucky for me clients are willing to wait.

Yes it's the weight I've picked up moved that's give me spinal stenosis or as it's known degeneration. Surgeon tells me it's a common complaint as we get older are spine vertebra degenerate with our movement and strain we out on the discs as we work and play.

Fusing of the three vertebra as I've had done in neck is way of removing pain and making sure it doesn't come back for that area. In my case I still have four discs that need replacing allowing them to fuse. I asked why not do all together as he pointed out multi levels cannot be done in one go as it cause weakness in neck and problems in future. That's why it's done in stages and worse ones first and having them done and feeling effects I understand why.

Fusion is only dangerous as they have to remove the disc and it's edge is close to the spinal column as my discs were hard lack of fluid they were difficult to remove but that's where a surgeon comes into his own and if he's skilled enough removal is possible replaced with cage like mine and fusion takes place as the vertebra fuse together with new bone growth.

So I think your surgeon saying it's dangerous is not experienced enough to do it correctly.

But with any operation there are risks, as my surgeon explained just putting me to sleep is a risk Let alone what he did.

Had a great time in garden with Amos he played got knacks red layer under tree to cool down and slept.

Wife complained about doing work, but come on when do is blokes listen, well this one don't. Lol

As I've said after 8 days after surgery I'm feeling pretty good, long way to go yet before fully recovered and getting slight niggles now and again but upper arms are pain free. Waiting now for letter from surgeon to see when I have to go back to see him for this recovery and talk about options for what's going to happen if any about other discs in neck.

Lower back pain L4-L5 is being taken up by ombudsman and he is chasing my doctor to find out why 3 years on he hasn't sent me to orthopedic doctor for assessment. So I'm expecting that appointment to be this year sometime. For now staying positive and looking forward to a brighter future even if i stay the way I am now I'd be happy, cause to be able to spend most of day out of bed and go for walks with Amos and the wife is far better than what I've gone through before this operation.

Take care

John. From sunny Norway.

Abbey sitting in hotel in Morecambe yes weather warm but not seen much of it, seeing Jane in Wakefield tomorrow but will reply to your message when I get home. A conversation not to be missed my eyes have been opened with the NHS. Anne

God this forum is crap I have been trying to reply to you for at least 10 minutes. I have a good message for you and think I may go via private messages, So.... we have both had experience of Mr Smith, Lancaster and Preston

I am sorry to tell you but I think they are the most inexperienced lot I have had the bad luck to come across and it seems you also.   I will reply tomorrow as I have had enough and I have only been on this forum, it takes such a long time and to be honest everything else seems to take a back seat.  You know none of us should be sitting at the computer, so go and make a coffee and then I will be ready tomorrow for a good talk.  By the way my daughter works in Wakefield. I love it.  Do you know anyone who works for Team 17 before I put my foot in it!!!!

An yway I will be back tomorrow. I did spit as I went by Lancaster Infirmary trouble is I want to go and live there (Lancaster that is) but seeing what the night life is like wonder whether we should..... All will be reavealed....

Anne

Anne, I've just sent you a private message.

Ps, Ive got my scan tomorrow that I told you about.