Stopping Bisoprolol Completely 1.25mg

Just goes to show that the best researcher is sometimes the internet and what you can find out about the drugs you are prescribed for the conditions you have.  Good doctors don't mind this as it does a lot of the work for them!   Always question what makes you feel ill - I think I have said before, how can all doctors know every side effect of every drug on the market, with new medications all the time.  We do have to help ourselves too...

The used to say, Physician heal thyself now the patient has to be his own guardian. I am losing track of the number of contra indicated medications that that young hospital registrars have prescribed for me.

Hi Josephine,

Sorry to hear that your husband has gone back into AF. As I have previously said I have been studying all about AF etc. Pradaxa is a fairly new drug and I beleive quite expensive as opposed to Warfarin which is quite cheap to produce. Some health areas will not prescribe it.

I did not say previously, but I had a Ablation in July which was successful for Atrial flutter and tomorrow I see the Cardiologist to see if I can come off Warfarin as my heart is in synus rythm, going in an hours time to Boots for my INR test, hopefully the last one.

Getting back to drugs you say your husband is also on Amlodopine, from memory I was given that for a protruding disk, but did not take it because of the side effects, check the leaflet on that drug to see what side effects there are.

Good luck Ken.

It would be dangerous to give out advice that you can stop this drug without any effects.  In any case it would have to be with your doctor's notification if not approval.  If there is anything to be learnt here it is that the individual variation in symptoms is endless.  I can only state that in my own case, completely worn out by feeling so bad with fatigue, I elected not to take it any more come what may and that was about two years ago now.  No effect whatsoever - but that is my own experience.

Thank you josephine, and I do agree with you regarding the giving out of advice.  I thought as I read through what people had put here, 'oh, I've had that' or 'I felt that too' strange isn't it that I had symptoms associated with the drug, yet despite reading the patient information sheet, it had all gone un-noticed by me at the time, whilst perhaps putting it down to just how I was feeling at the time, or I misread - either way, onwards and upwards as they say.

thanks for the speedy reply.

I am glad you are feeling so much better after your decision to stop your medication but please do at some point get your heart checked to make sure there are no adverse effects. All the best.

I understand your feelings and have stopped all of mine apart from Warfarin. However the safest thing to do would have been to stop them one at a time with a month between each starting with Bisoprolol the most likely culprit. I would have gradually have reduced the Bisoprolol over a period of weeks as tou were on a fairly high dosage.

If you have a GNT spray you must have been diagnosed with angina. How often did you need to use the spray and what medical tests did you have to get on so many?

The aspirin would not have caused any of your side effects. 

Good Health

Hi Linda, thank you for your response which I appreciate....I had an ECG three weeks ago and apart from some blips that refer to previous MI's the trace was fine.......I needed to get these drugs out of my system as they were causing other symptoms......I decided once and for all to come off of them....I know it takes a while for the drugs to finally leave the system so I will make a post in a few weeks to say how I'm doing, at the moment I feel great, more alert - less tired and no shortness of breath....I seem to have come out the other side of the tunnel o/k, time will tell.....Once again, many thanks, best regards. Ivan.

Hi derek, thanks for your response, yes, you are quite right long standing angina along with a few other heart conditions hence the drugs......I have experienced Doctors who give you one diagnosis and then deny they ever said it.....At last I got my head around this one and decided to stop all meds......It's like stopping smoking...all or nothing, gradual decrease keeps the drug in the system so I decided to quit them all. (I'm a non-smoker by the way).  I may be right or wrong but I made that decision and you know what - I am feeling just fine - no withdrawal symptoms no probs with heart - Systolic/Diastolic and BPM now better than when I was taking Bisoprolol - well within normal healthy range......I will see how it all pans out in the next few weeks - time will be the judge.

Cheers derek and best wishes, Ivan.

I'm concerned about your angina as it is a serious condition and its underlying causes. You are obviously still going to get chest pain so what will you do without your spray?.

I would agree - there are some meds which you will absolutely need to have to hand at least.  Do carry your angina spray, just as I always carry Flecainide for heart arrhythmia (just in case).  That would be only sensible and of course the other medication you should never stop taking without consultation is blood thinning such as warfarin or dabigatran (Pradaxa) as these are essentials for your safety.

I agree and it would be foolhardy of me not to have my trusty gtn spray in my usual pocket - as for the others, I am quite determined to end them, like I said.....I will have to wait and see how it all goes.

Thanks for the concern, much obliged....Ivan.

Thanks Josephine, I came across this site by chance and I am more than impressed with the post's that I have read through - in fact, it's been quite the eye opener.....I have one or two other problems with the heart but I would rather not discuss them - just glad I made the decision to quit all those meds......My gtn nitrolingual spray will be with me wherever I go noght or day.

Thanks for your response, much appreciated.....Regards, Ivan.

As I said earlier I would stick with the aspirin as it is an anti platlet.

Thank's derek, great advice is always welcome....I must admit - as the day's progress I am feeling ton's better than what I did on Bisoprolol, hope it continues.

Best wishes, Ivan.

I stopped it in June of last year due to many side effects. My hospital record now says 'Bisoprolol Intolerant'

Hi derek.....I am in the u/k where I find anything to do with our National Health Service is slowly but surely being curtailed except for major emergencies...this is now weaning into that of primary care Doctors - I have become so disappointed with the standards of care.....It would appear having a "Private health care providor" is the best way to go......at the moment I am reviewing this situation....I no longer have any faith in the NHS, however I digres........ so back to Bisoprolol....could this drug cause stiffness in leg and arm muscles as a side effect ??.

Cheers, Ivan.

In my case it was weakness in the legs and loss of balance. It got to the stage that I could hardly stand far less walk and seemingly a neurological problem

I totally agree about the NHS. I had waited six months to see a neurologist. It was then thought after a CT scan that I needed a neuro surgeon as all the tests I'd had did not show any specific problem . That was quoted at 39 weeks so I went privately. That cost me £430 for two appointments and £914 for an MRI scan with the decision it is not a  problem for surgery. Neither scan showed any great problem just general wear and tear and told that my back is very good for my age.

It is obviously a combination of side effects  from medications over the past four years..

 

derek, I read your reply with a dopped jaw......I was stunned to realise we were both more or less in the same boat.....I have had this problem for the past 7 years which coincides when first starting the meds........Neuro exam's came back as negative.......no explanation whatsoever for leg weakness and numbness and difficulty in walking, I will go with the possibility that it's all medication induced rather than "All in the head", (Somatisation)....I too am knocking on a bit and would dearly like to get back to good health before I pop my clog's.

Private health looks far too expensive for my meagre finances....Ouch !! an MRI @ £941 is vey serious cash....The Specialists fee seems on a par with solicitors fees.......Looks like "The Fat Cats" win everytime....Look's like it's going to be the NHS for me....Oh Dear !!!!.

Thanks again and thanks for all the valuable info, great stuff.

Regards, Ivan.

I might send you a PM later about my symptoms but they are all on various sections here.

Get this for the NHS. When going through the neurology investigations last year I had a head MRI scan that was OK. I then went for nerve conduction tests that did not show that much. The one doing it said  I should have a whole spine MRI as he thought that it was a back problem but they would not be able to fit it in as I was due to have a pacemaker fitted in five days’ time.

I insisted on having an MRI compatible one but they then said that I would have to wait ten weeks before I could have an MRI after it was fitted. I decided to have a CT scan instead privately and that cost around £600. 

As that did not show enough for the neuro surgeon he wanted an MRI. As I had to travel to another town to see him he suggested that I have the MRI at my local hospital who had fitted the pacemaker. He had no reply from them in six weeks. Eventually the imaging department in the hospital (the scanner as in many hospitals is run by a private company as the NHS cannot afford to buy them) said that they did not scan that type of MRI compatible pacemaker!!!!

I was then offered one by another hospital at £400 more that the local hospital would have charged. Local hospital then said that they were about to agree a protocol with the imaging department to scan my make so I cancelled the other offer. Time dragged on and the protocol was not agreed. I tried other hospitals in the South East and London and none scanned this make. After six months I had to agree to the expensive option but managed to get them knock a £100 off from their original £1014 quote.

Did they do it to the makers protocol? No they ignored most of it. 

If we are talking money, then I have just had a bit of a shock. I need a spinal MRI scan and on seeing the consultant, he was unsure of whether my pacemaker was MRI friendly.  So the scan wasn't booked.  On contacting the US makers, I learnt that I have a device and leads from different manufacturers and cannot be MRI scanned.  As I have had an AV node ablation, any interfererence with my pacemaker could mean curtains for me - it would have been nice to choose an MRI friendly one at the time, but am informed I have a ten year wait for this now (hope I have ten years of non major trauma).  I can have a CT scan however but the consultant said this would not be of as much use.  This cannot be anything else but cost cutting but if any of you out there ever need a pacemaker in the future, be aware of this and ask for MRI compatible!

Incidentally I too am marked as Bisoprolol Intolerant, so if my heartbeat does decide to speed up again, then I would have to try some of the alternatives which others here have listed from time to time. 

derek...it looks as if we both went throgh the same grist mill !! what a great pity you didn't have the MRI before the pacemaker and your advice ref MRI compatable pacemaker is invaluable....now then, I pricked my ears up when I read that you had had the nerve conduction test.....I had this as well and the report said I had "Active Denervation" in the largest muscles of both legs....I have asked a Neurologist - G.P. - Pain Clinic - A&E Doctor what this Active Denervation is and how it affects people and all said they didn't know what it was and how it would affect me.....in the end I gave up and put it out of my mind as if it had never happened.

The longer you suffer the more you get to see how these Consultants and Specialist perform and whilst they have been educated to the Nth degree they are so inadequate at dealing with the Layman....my confidence has been driven away by their very actions....sorry to have a rant here but that's how this lot get's you.

Keep at it and don't take the pills !!...Ivan.

Great advice ref the pacemaker compatability issues, I stopped the Bisoprolol and found my Systolic and Dyastolic slowly started to reduce..... at one stage I had consistant rampant hypertension, unstable angina.... I got to a steady daily high systolic of 176 even on various heart meds....over this past two weeks it has come down to between 132 and thankfully has steadied over this past week to 132 & 136 on a daily basis....this is without any meds whatsoever.....I feel great I just hope I never have to return to these drugs....Bisoprolol has a lot to aswer for.

All the best, Ivan

Did you benefit from your AV node ablation and how are you now?

I am down to have one but I put it off until having the MRI as it is not said to be good to be pacemaker dependent when having the MRI.

I was told in a Sunday morning phone call after having had a seven day ECG monitor that I needed a dual chamber pacemaker as a matter of some urgency as my heart rate was in the low 40's dropping to mid-30's... So? it had been like that for years. I was also told that I was having 3.5 second pauses between beats.

I had the pre op assessment and was told the same but they didn't know if I would get an MRI compatible one.

On the table I only asked if I was getting an MRI compatible pacemaker... he didn't know and went to check!

In the evening the Guy from the pacemaker clinic came to the ward to set it up. I was being kept in as my lung had ben punctured during the procedure. He gave me my card and I right away saw that I had been given a single chamber one.

I've never been able to get the consent form I signed that must have said the type to be fitted. The EP who fitted it said that single chamber was in the letter he was given when asked to do the procedure. My GP and others say I should have had a dual chamber one.

On the other hand the staff at two different pacemaker clinics question whether I really needed a pacemaker at all. They say that it only has to kick in 14% of the time to put my heart rate up and that the pauses I had were probably all during the night. 

The pacemaker is only supposed to kick in when my heart rate falls below 60 but it would seem from the pacemaker print out it is not having to do that very often so I wonder why it is now in the mid 70’s to mid-80’s. most of the time. After my slow heart rate I am very aware of the new improved faster one a year down the line..

It is now almost two years ago I had the pacemaker and AV node ablation.  I can only say it has given me back my life really as most of the time I forget I ever had any such problems.  AV node ablation doesn't cure the AFib but mitigates the symptoms.  I had two failed ablations previously.  Now and again, maybe just once this year, have I experienced the old feeling of being unstable.  I have a dual chamber pacemaker but no pacemaker can prevent a fast heartbeat, but just ensures it kicks in if the heartbeat is too slow.   So far I have not had any rising heartbeat although the clinic traceout shows I have quite a few transient AFib episodes.  Sometimes I can vaguely feel a sort of change, but that is all.  My BP is always a bit on the high side and I do take a Valsartan for that and of course the blood thinner which I will have to take for life (Pradaxa).  The good news this year is that they now have an antidote for this drug (Praxbind) and it now carries no more risk than Warfarin.  Swings and roundabouts......  Sorry to hear your wishes seem to have been ignored as to the pacemaker, but if it is giving you a better quality of life, then one has to settle for that - until replacement time!!

They were not my wishes but the decision of the doctor who checked my 7 day ECG results. Someone either changed it or a mistake was made.

Re anticoagulants, have you heard of the Watchman Device or the Amplatzer Amulet as an alternative?

I was given about ten minutes to decide on the ward whether I wanted a pacemaker or stronger and stronger drugs - so I opted for the former.  So I had no time at all to do any research which I would normally previously have done otherwise I would have known there were different kinds of pacemaker.  Sometimes, fate just takes a hand as it obviously did in your case and mine also as it turns out.  When I agreed to the AV node ablation I did know it was drastic and made me totally reliant on the pacemaker, but at that stage anything which would improve my quality of life looked very attractive!  I have had two good years so far with only a small wobble now and then, so I consider it was probably the right decision.  Another few years down the line, none of us know how it will be but every good day is precious.   I will look up those alternatives you mention and come back later.

Those devices are new to me but could avoid a lifetime's drugs for some who would qualify I expect.  I don't think they are on the general radar at the moment, although we could see more use of these ahead.  Some would not choose another invasive procedure when Pradaxa is available, has a counter effect antidote drug now and no side effects.  (I am sure some people will have side effects to almost any drug).  

For those unfortunates who are still on Warfarin and all those needles, I can see them wanting something like these devices, though it is surprising that many are still even unaware of any other alternatives like Pradaxa (dabigatran).

As patients get older the chances of a bleed increase whether on NOAC's or Warfarin apart from their side effects.

In America the Watchman is now regarded as preferable by the FDA to either drug for both cost and patient safety

.  

Which means we have got a long wait - my daughter nurses in Texas and says that Warfarin is hardly ever used over there - only dabigatran or that group of thinners.  Those devices will be too late on the market for me now and perhaps for you also, but it is good to hear of anything which is an improvement.  Incidentally my daughter is already experiencing irregular heartbeat now and then (we're all heart in this family), so I guess she may be in line for the next up best thing - that is if she can afford it over there without bankruptcy!

My name has been put forward for a trial being run for the Amplatzer Amulet. I should have several plus points, age (81) uncontrolled hypertension, history of duodenal ulcers and side effects. 

If I don't get on it I am willing to pay to get off Warfarin and have the Watchman or Amplatzer device. When I inquired of London Bridge Hospital last year they said that I am a suitable patient subject to having a CT scan. I did have a CT Scan of my lumbar spine last year and an MRI of my whole spine a pelvic area last month that should show all they need.