Strange BPH therapy idea
Posted , 11 users are following.
So I’m one, by nature, that likes to challenge (in a positive way) a standard mindset to make people (to use an old cliché) think outside the box. I look at how a product or procedure is being used and look for other ways that product/procedure might be used. I think it’s a “guy thing” and I’m sure there are a lot of guys on here that can claim the same personality trait. And to be honest...the majority of the time it doesn’t pan out. Lol
Sorry for the long introduction.
So I took my dog to the Emergency Animal Clinic January 9th because she had lost complete use of her right front and back leg (the left side seemed fine). It was as if she had a stroke. As it turned out (near as they could tell, she had a ruptured disk in her neck. They gave us pain and anti inflammatory pills and told us (for approximately $5,000+) with X-rays, surgery, and rehab she had a pretty good chance of recovery. The other options were to put her down or try “Laser Therapy” for $850.00).
We started her on the pills and then scheduled an appointment with her regular vet. He agreed with their prognosis and also suggested trying the laser treatment, which they do @ $250 for 6 treatments. I’m generally a skeptic but he said they have actually had very good results and believe it accelerates the healing process. He even told me he takes it home and his son uses it for some pain issues. He said it sounds like snake oil but it really does seem to help.
From what I have researched, this “Laser Therapy” is used to “Reduce Pain, Reduce Inflammation, and Speed Healing”
Here are some quotes...
“Uses a beam of laser light to deeply penetrate tissue without damaging it”.
“Laser energy induces a biological response in the cells called “photobiomodulation” which leads to reduce pain, reduced inflammation, and increased healing speed.
It is used for wounds, allergies, infections, cuts/bites, inflammation, tooth extraction pain relief, sprains & fractures, degenerative joint disease, inflammatory bowel disease (that doesn’t sound fun), Paradont told disease, geriatric care, hip dysplasia, tendinitis, arthritis…
I’m sure you all know where I’m going with this...
Just wondering if this couldn’t be used to help men with BPH. I’ve never heard of it being done. Perhaps it has been tried with no positive results or there’s not enough money to be made or too hard to Implement or the laser is not strong enough to reach the prostate.
Any thoughts?
0 likes, 26 replies
joe82842 ES28567
Posted
Im with you 100% . I can't believe we don't have more options for treatment. I often wonder why a stint or something like it can't be used. Its restriction simply put. Flomax is workimg for me so i'm waiting for something that doesnt risk my sex drive.
kenneth1955 ES28567
Posted
Hey Buddy
I took a quick look. When you put in Laser Therapy for the Prostate. There is no information other then Green Light Laser or the Helop procedure
Now I put in Laser Therapy. And it came up with a lot of things that it can be use for. From your back to your brain. It also talk about pain management. Just like you have in your post.
Did some more reading and I found out that it is a low intensity laser and it does not penetrate the body. It does promote healing on the surface. You would think some of these doctor instead of finding more way to cut out the prostate that they would work on something that would heal the prostate before it get worse. Maybe one day.
Thanks buddy that was very interesting. Going to do more reading on it....Ken
ES28567 kenneth1955
Posted
Thanks Ken,
Look forward to seeing what you come up with.
kenneth1955 ES28567
Posted
No Problem
I will let you know
MichaelVM7 ES28567
Posted
I suppose part of it could be that the conditions you list all have an inflammatory response. Prostatitis is an inflammatory response, but BPH involves cell (healthy non-cancerous) cell proliferation. Inflammation can coexist with BPH, but treatment must halt and reverse the out of control cell division - the "H" in BPH, hyperplasia or hypertrophy. FLA, as many men here know, does use a laser to remove excess prostate tissue to treat BPH.
ES28567 MichaelVM7
Posted
Michael,
That might be why it has not been used for BPH, the laser (at this low power setting) does not stop cell proliferation. Perhaps it could still help with Prostatitis.
kenneth1955 MichaelVM7
Posted
Hey Michael
That does make since but it does said in a few things that I read that it will help the cells. Now why can't the doctor figure out with the laser to fix the prostate instead of destroying it.
I think I'm going to send Dr. K a e-mail to see if he has any thoughts on this.
Hope your doing better...Ken
Howard31850 ES28567
Posted
Did it help your dog? We tried it on our dog who had hip dysplasia but it didn't help. The laser's therapeutic benefit is that it can concentrate heat in the affected area and increase blood flow to the region which is why it is so effective for wound healing which in turn will reduce inflammation as a secondary benefit. But it can only penetrate tissue a few microns at low power. I wish your doggie a quick recovery. They are God's blessing to us! Howard
JerryR Howard31850
Posted
Good luck to you ES. I never heard of laser therapy for a human with a herniated disk in the neck, or elsewhere. So why should it work for a dog. Sounds like a lot of dog wash to me.
owen35669 Howard31850
Posted
Hip dysplasia is a whole 'nuther animal. Wondering why your vet allowed the expense knowing dysplasia -- a degenerative condition typically inherited -- is more or less permanent, short of trying to totally reconstruct the dog's pelvic structure.
I love dogs and wished I had had the smarts to make it to vet school. But I did the next best thing: worked under an extraordinary vet for a decade, learning so much from him in hands on practice. The best lesson of all was to know the practical limitations of veterinary medicine. Certainly we love our pets. But, in terminal or seriously debilitating situations especially, an ethical vet will counsel you to know when it's time. Not to do so, for most people, is to jeopardize financial resources to an extreme.
ES28567 Howard31850
Posted
I agree, dogs are such awesome creatures/pets. Ours have never been “like family” to us they “are family”.
I can not say for a fact if the laser therapy has helped. The only way to know would be to have two identical dogs with the exact same injury and treat one with laser and one with out and see if the one with laser recovered quicker. However even that would not be definitive.
The great news is that she has recovered to about 80% to 85% of normal. That’s a huge improvement over not being able to stand just to go the “bathroom”. (Oh... maybe I shouldn’t say that word on this forum...lol). She can walk and even run (she’s not supposed to be running) and can even go up and down stairs (although we don’t let her do that).
I do know that she was improving prior to starting the treatment so in my mind, I don’t think laser therapy “causes” healing, I think it might accelerate or “promotes” it.
I think that if there is an injury that the body is not capable of healing on its own, then I’m not sure a laser will heal such an injury either (unless the laser stimulates blood flow to a blood starved area which therefore would not normally heal, then perhaps it might “cause” healing instead of just promoting healing. My vet lugs it home for his son to use and it’s not a small machine so he must think is beneficial.
I read a quote a while back that really struck my heart at the time...
“God, help me be the person my dog thinks I am”.
Wouldn’t the world be a much better place if everyone tried to live that way?
Howard31850 ES28567
Posted
Yes to that. My doggie save my life over the years and taught me what is important in life. She passed away 4 years ago today from bladder cancer. We tried a new procedure on her then as the tumors continued to grow in her bladder. It is UGELAB for "Ultrasound-guided laser ablation" of the tumors. Sounds a bit familiar to some of our BPH treatments!
The idea was the for the vet to de-bulk some of the tumor in her bladder so the tumors would not close up on the bladder neck outlet or the ureters from the kidneys. However the long anesthesia took its toll on her poor little kidneys which were already compromised and she went into renal failure. The procedure cost $40,000.00 ( a good chunk of my retirement money) but I would gladly pay it again if it had helped her. The vet was honest and told us the odds of working. I still have never recovered from her loss. My BPH really took off after that. So sad.
kenneth1955 Howard31850
Posted
Hey Howard.
Sorry for your loss. We just have to remember that they were our friend and did not ask anything of us but love
I had dogs all through my life. Most of the time when my kids were home. The last dog I had was my daughters. The dogs name was Percious we had her for 14 years She was attached to me. If I sat on the couch or a chair that had a back on it she would get up on it and lay around my shoulders
We had to have her put down. She had tumor in her belly. The doctor told us they were cancer and she may not make it through surgery. So I had my X wife go with me. At the time she lived next door with her new husband That is a story. If I worked on the car he was there trying to be my buddy.
Now I don't have any dogs. My kids have them and my sons dog Charlie does the same thing when I go there or if he is at my house he lays on the back of the couch around my shoulders.
To all the pet lovers. God bless you all....Ken
Howard31850 kenneth1955
Posted
Thank Ken - you are the best! This is what is so great about this forum - we never know where a given thread will take us ( as long as the owner of the thread doesn't mind). My dog was an Elkhound which is part wolf. We live on a farm and she would love to sit in her fenced yard and howl with the coyotes all the time. The night before she passed away she was lying on the floor in the living room when at 8 pm dozens of coyotes gathered around the outside of the fence and sang to her for 10 minutes. She lifted her head and sang back and then dropped back unconscious .. . I recorded it .. something to ponder. Howard
kenneth1955 Howard31850
Posted
No problem Howard.
I don't think that anyone will mind to go away from the main thing because we will get back to them.
I had many kinds of dogs. I had this one dog that I got from a women were she had her horses. This dog was part cattle dog and dingo. It was a pretty dogs but when she was 6 months old we had to get rid of here. We lived in a upper flat. She would run from one end to the other.
I took her about 30 mile out of where I was living to a shelter that they make sure that they get homes for dog. They did not put them down. The day I got there I was only there for about 10 minutes when a guy and his daughter came in. He had 10 acres and was looking for a dog. I told him she was born on a horse ranch. He took her. So I know she went to a good home.
We did not get another dog until we moved into a house.It is sometimes hard to believe that dogs and cats can get the some thing we to.Even urinary problem but we love them and do what we can for them.
Enjoy the memory's.....Ken
ES28567 Howard31850
Posted
Oh Howard,
What an awesome story! You really kinda choked me up a bit.
I have had dogs in my life, my whole life. Mostly German Shepard’s and Dachshunds. (It’s our dachshund that has the ruptured disk in her neck) but she is getting better.
I have also had 2 Old English Mastiffs (one at a time). All of my dogs have all been great companions and have brought our family great joy. All have lived to a ripe old age but all (so far) have been put down when their quality of life diminished to the point it would not be humane to keep them alive.
The last one we put down was a Mastiff who was loosing the use of her back legs. On her last day, I gave her a nice big juicy raw steak. She couldn’t stop wagging her tail. And to top it off, for desert she got a chocolate cupcake. And then she was put to sleep. She left lour family a very happy dog.
Dogs are truly one of God’s greatest creations.
kenneth1955 ES28567
Posted
Hey there
Yes we do what we can for them. My last dog I had I gave her a hamburger before we left and I rub her belly she liked that. My X and I were in the room when she went to sleep we had her for 10 years and she had a good life.
Take care all...Ken
Howard31850 kenneth1955
Posted
Thanks for sharing these stories - we always believed that our pets taught what is really important in life - to just slow down and appreciate what is all around us. Before we got our doggie my wife and I would jog in the park with our music in our ears and never enjoy the beauty of the park. But once we got Anka and took her for walks every day in the park she opened our eyes to all the beauty around us in the park - every flower and nature sound. And she would visit everyone so we would make new friends - the same people we would just run by in the past and never noticed.