This may help with chronic fatigue

Thanks.  I didn't know about this diet.  The cholesterol is a problem as you say.  Maybe his age is in his favour regards cholesterol ?  He is 31  I think he said the doctor would monitor him and adjust his diet if there is improvement.  He is much more active than he was last year. Sometimes he would spend a few days at a time in bed.  On one occasion it was nearly two months where he couldn't function properly and he appeared fuggy and slow in speech and thought processes. He spent a lot of time in bed during this period too.  Went to the toilet to pee a lot during the night. Not sure if this has changed over the last month.  Sue

 

hi sue. i know the picture so well, massive cognitive compromise with overwhelming exhaustion & the helplessness in impacying it positively. yes, his age is on his side in respect of a full or near full recovery. however. i'm sure his Doc has his eye on the ball since he said he'd keep him monitored. he'd be aware of the cholesterol & dietary fat association. i'm sure your friend's delighted to be back to near normal again. i know a few ppl who have done v. well on this diet, and a few whose cholesterol went sky high. there are, however, other factors apart from diet involved in cholesterol, not least genetic predispostion. it's just a good idea to keep an eye on the cholesterol.

Caitlin.

Hi Caitlin I spoke with him last night and yes, its the Paleo diet as you said.  He was feeling much better again yesterday and said he was feeling physically and psychologically quite different after going on this diet but said he may need more protein.  This may be because his energy levels aren't up to previous levels - ie as they were two years ago before it started.  Doctor will tell him more next week. Sue

hi Sue.

the Paleo diet is often used in conjunction with a comprehensive ME/CFS recovery program. this frequently involves doing a mitochondrial (energy factories in the cell) blood screen. in ME/CFS the mito. of the cells are often damaged that results in mitochondrial failure. once we know from the mito. screen where the damage is or what the mito. deficiencies are, these can be replaced by 'specific' nutitional supplemetation. the Doc may now look at what's happening at mitochondrial levels with your friend and address that. the Paleo is often just one strand of a multidimensional recovery program.

also, ME/CFS often responds well initially to therapeutic interventions such as the Paleo diet. the response can , however, peter out over time, or/and the energy levels can revert to their baseline levels. however, if we remove any or as much as is possible of the toxic load from the body, it frees up energy for healing & repair. sugar , of course is one of the greatest offenders and once this is removed the body has a greater chance of self-healing.

Caitlin

Hi Caitlin - I remember him mentioning weakened mitochondria  a few months ago after the blood test results.  Cd be the diet is the first step to heal the mito.  I wonder why the response can peter out over time.  Or could it be that ppl try to revert  to their usual diet too quickly by re-introducing banned foods too soon.  Sue

I was dismayed to read in your other post about implications for the heart and brain. What kind of anomolies are you referring to? Is there anywhere I can find out about this pls?

hi Sue. the Paleo diet is a very good starting point to addressing ME/CFS especially if digestive symptoms i.e. IBS, Dysbiosos or/and if bowel femintation is a major feature. your friend is lucky that his 'blood sugar' sounds stable. this can be a major problem for many with ME/CFS. when the blood sugar is unstable and energy is carbo/sugar dependent, they don't always make that transition to obtaining their energy from fats & protein as in the Paleo diet. hypo. symptoms can be horrible & frightening.

in respect of the brain damage the Standford MRI studies of ME/CFS identified 3 areas of brain anomolies in ppl with ME/CFS when compared to control groups. 1) they found they had lower levels of white matter responsible for carrying info. & signals bewteen different parts of the brain, 2)anomlolies in the areas that connect the front and temporal lobes, 3)and in the grey matter that processes processes info. in these 2 areas. this can help explain they many cognitive compromises that ppl with ME/CFS experience. i'll comment on the cardiac stiff later.

Caitlin.

hi Sue. re: cardiac problems: from cardiac symptoms observed in ppl of all ages with ME/CFS, researcher at Newcastle university led by Prof. Julia Newton, hypothesized that the impaired muscle function observed in ppl with ME/CFS was not confined to skeletal muscle, but maybe part of a more widespread muscle anolmoly. they hypothesized that this may include cardiac muscle. to test their hypoythesis they completed a bunch of trials, comparing those diagnosed with ME/CFS to control groups. to examine cardiac muscle, the team used specialised MRS (Magnetic Resonance Spectroscopy) - a technique that provides a non invasive window into cellular metabolism deep within the tissues to observe what was happening in the heart muscle. it's sometimes referred to as MRI tagging. in short their findings were unexpected.

Hi Sue. these are some of the research findings from the cardiac research studies from Newcastle UNI. the cardiac research team found: 1) left ventricular mass (the tickness of heart wall) was substantially reduced (by 23%) compared to controls, 2)different measures of 'blood pool volume' was significanly lower than in controls, 3) cardiac output was lower by 21%, 4) the amount of blood pumped by the left ventricle in one contraction was lower by 26%, 5)the volume of blood in each ventricle at the end of the rest phase was lower by 25%, 6)40% of ME/CFS patients had a history of loss of consciousness compared to 23% of controls, 7)clinical symptoms on standing was found in 95% of ME/CFS participants compared to 39% of controls, 8)Postorthotic Tcahycardia Syndrome (POTS) was found in 31% compared to 6% of controls, 9)in response to standing ME/CFS participant's hearts had to wrok significantly harder. these are just some of the findings published in peer reviewed journals. the above senarios cause low B/P, arrythymias, palpitations just to mention a few of the symptoms. if not addressed low cardiac output leads to collapse, and in time to cardiac failure albeit the presenting picture is different to the congestive cardiac failure seen in older ppl. therefore, unfortunately its not picked up by cardiologists never mind GP's. it's a whole under researchd area of ME/CFS and almost unknown by regular Medics and primary health care professionals. i've focused on the research, as otherwise the experts tend to comment that the cardiac symptoms are nothing more than''ancedotal evidence''.

Caitlin

Caitlin....that sounds Very feasible....keep us all posted and I too will try researching same....Bron

Hi Kirsty - You mention the high cholesterol being in red meat which also contains more fat than than white meat and fish.  As I understand it (and I have only begun to learn recently) the paleo diet is fat and protein based.  If you get protein from chicken, fish and pulses how can you put fat into your body if not through red meat?  And what kind of fats are required as there are all types, polyunsaturated etc.  Just wondering if 'good' fats will be sufficient and with less cholesterol too?

I was also thinking about the genetic angle on CFS.  I am not aware of this happening in his family before.  I wonder if it has in yours?

Re dairy - he had already cut out dairy a few years ago which the doc said probably hadn't helped.  Now he only eats eggs in the dairy department - no milk or cheese.  Sue   

Hi Sue, I haven't quite done all the research I need yet to know fully and will probably have to experiment too, so may end up eating more red meat, but I have high cholestorol in at least one side of my family so will be keeping a close eye on that.  

I won't be leaving out red meat altogether as I enjoy a certain amount anyway (and have already tried going vegetarian) but have been looking at the ketogenic diet.  I didnt know of this one as a specific diet before but stumbled across it after reading your post yesterday.  It's definitely very similar to paleo but i don't think its the same diet.  I will also be using a lot of olive oil on salads etc, coconunt oil/milk in various things and avocado, eggs, also allowed some nuts and seeds i think.

On this diet although you are not allowed milk (pasturised anyway) you are allowed other dairy products, although of course these won't help me with cholesterol and may have to cut these out at some point if they give me problems with ibs. 

I don't know whether it will work or not, other than in the sense I have always felt at least slightly better on a low sugar diet, when I struggled and asked for help I was just encouraged to eat wholegrains again being led to believe i wasnt helping myself.

Perhaps its obvious now reading this what i was doing wrong but when you are cognitively impaired and fog-brained its really tough to see things clearly and make decisions and not get easily swayed.  Plus you spend any good time you have mostly researching anything and everything that could possibly cause it, so end up trying so many different things you can't remember where you are at.  It has to be worth a go, I have nothing else to try at this time so i'd rather be trying something.  

I also have diabetes in my family (late onset) and reading what i did last night i may be better off on this type of diet.

Thank you for posting this conversation, as I think i have always misunderstood this diet (even tho its not quite the one you were advising) and with the advice i have previously been given would probably never have thought I could acheive it.  

I appreciate some people above stating that you can just end up levelling off (which has happened to me before on fodmap), but as disheartening as I know that will be if it happens i'd rather have some good time than none

*Sorry - the anti fungal is called Nistatin and not Carnitine as I said.

Hi Sue...yes Nistatin (Nilstatin) is very commonly used for Fungal Infections (perhaps yo've heard of bubs getting Thrush on inside of mouths...same thing).  Very interesting re use for ?Chronic Fatigue....will be interested to see how this treatment and followed up by an Acidophilus  (always commonly advised for women who suffer from Cystites)..will succeed?  Bron

Hi Bronwyn - Yes, I'm familiar with Thrush and cystitis  and have had cystitis myself though usually use blueberry or cranberry juice to get rid of it .  The doctor treating my relative is trying to eradicate the fungi in his gut.  This fungi showed up in some extensive testing done a few months ago.  I knew that Acidophilus is helpful to restore the good bacteria which is destroyed when taking anti-biotics.  I have taken it myself in the past when taking anti-biotics.  The doctor seems to be focussing on this fungi as being connected to the CFS.  It may be, but there may be other things too but can only wait to find out what they are.  The good thing is that his energy levels have improved hugely since he has been on the first course of treatment - paleo diet.  Hopefully by irradicating the fungi there may be more improvement.  Will let you all know.  Sue