Treating osteopenia and osteoporosis

Hi Eileen

I think we have all noticed that medical advice is often contradictory these days e,g, about diet.  I would try out exercises that suit you and your lifestyle and that keep you motivated.  It is no use doing something that you hate because you won't continue to do it.  Get advice from someone you trust personally, if you can.  I trust my physio and trainer to give me exercises to help me to get moving normally again because I have tried their exercises and I definitely feel healthier, with better balance and more confidence.  I hope that they are making a difference to my bone strength and in my mind, they are because I feel good.

Sue

I hear you Eileen. I too have both. Back has arthritis and osteoporosis as well as mild scoliosis and two bulging discs. I cannot stand for long or sit much at all unless in a recliner with support.

For people like us the pool is the only option.

 I add step ups using the pool stairs and a number of exercises taught to me by a physio.

Everyone is unique and saying exercise is the answer is great for people without contradictory conditions.

 I also get depressed which does not help as well.

Just do short walks often say six minutes at a time.

I am trying the Tens machine hoping that helps me.

2016 will be better!

Keep going Kathleen. I can imagine that it is only too easy to get depressed when you have painful conditions.  For some people it may be helpful to exercise with a friend if possible or to join a group in the pool if there are classes that suit.

Best wishes for a happy 2016!

Is the TENS doing anything so far Kathleen?

 Yes, its a difficuilt one, but a good physio, as others have mentioned, will steer you on the right path. Then its up to us. I went back to running 2 weeks after an undiagnosed lumbar fracture and probably did more harm than good. I was leaning to one side, but stretching several times a day has straightened me up again. Walking is good. If only for 5 minutes every day, for a week, then 6 minutes the next week. Adding a minute every week, should hardly be noticed. Persistence, pays off and walking should help both your conditions. I still cant stand for very long,(husband delighted because I cant shop for long ) but with perseverence and determination I can walk on the beach for 2 hours and can run intermittently with walking. We are all different, but we can all improve and the endorphines and sense of achievment when we reach another milestone outway the negativity.  Good luck everyone and stay positive.

Thank you for your encouragement Sue.

Just started today. The physio who visited me at home checked where I put the patches. She put them either side of the spine where she said the nerves went out to,the sides.

I will let you know how I go with it Chris.

Thanks for pointing me towards this Chris.

No worries, Kathleen.  I just hope it works as well for you as it did me.  That's brilliant that she's told you where to put the patches.  I had a diagram with my machine when I bought it, so more or less knew where to put them.

Hi Sooozib

Thats what I'm doing.....exercises that suit myself.

I'm a volunteer for Arthritis Care and advise others on self managing their arthritis so I try to do the same  LOL

KATHLEEN......I have scoliosis as well....do we go around collecting them LOL  I find the pool doesnt help me. It might do during the sesion but by the time I get out struggle to get dried and changed etc.....all the good has been undone                    !!!

I'm on crutches permanently but I do a fair bit of walking {all be it with crutches} Our branch or arthritis care has seated zumba once a week and seated yoga once every two weeks and walking once a month. So I do try to keep going.

I dont find the tens machine much help for me.

Well......I'm off out to deliver some Avon, and get a couple of things then go for coffee

Love

Eileen  UK

eileen64 - Tai Chi and certain types of yoga!

Hi Anhaga

My yoga teacher came to teach a class from Arthritis Care {although she does others} sao she knows what she is doing

Tai Chi?? Wish I had the nerve to try it.

 weeks post op from my 2nd hip replacement and I was doing an NHS exercise and there was a crack, my leg gave way so the ambulance came. I was told I had fractured my greater trochanter bone ...it would heal but would take a long time. A couple of months later I was told it wouldnt heal.  1year and 8 months later I'm still on 2 crutches.

I'm assuming that you have to have more balance than that to do Tai Chi???  would love to try it

Love

Eileen UK

Hi Eileen.  I tried Tai Chi for a very short time but I felt 'daft'.  I just didn't have the correct attitude.  I also didn't relax, counter productive, what?

Sorry to hear about all your troubles.  You are going through it, aren't you?  Wouldn't you feel safer with a rollator?  I love mine.  I roll along at a reasonable pace, I can sit down if I feel tired, I can fit a shopping bag on to it and, best of all, I don't need to ask my husband to take me everywhere.  Just couldn't  do those things when I was on crutches.

Wishing you all the best. Constance

Eileen64, yesterday the instructor led us through a sequence where we ONLY moved our foot and leg positions, did not use our upper bodies at all (except to keep balance for a couple of "kicking" poses).  I would think that even if you had to hold onto something for support that doing the lower body positions (except the balancing on one leg ones at least at first) you would get a lot of benefit from it.  I felt I'd had a real workout.  Google tai chi for the disabled.

Eileen Tai Chi is incredibly gentle.  The DVD I got you can even do sitting down!  You don't strain anything or over stretch anything.  It's little short of miraculous how it improves the body for the effort that's put in!  We even noticed a difference just doing the warm up LOL!  It was the Paul Lam, Tai Chi for Arthritis and if you look online I think there is a free demo somewhere for it.  No, you don't need more balance - as I said, you can do it sitting down, or they tell you to hold on to a chair if you prefer.  It really is that easy!

In fact Tai Chi is recommended as an exercise to improve balance.

Hi Coinstance

Thanks for that...I have a rollator.  I had it when my scoliosis was bad and needed it for  walking long distances and like you say to carry things etc...much easier that 2 cruches LOL

The only thing is this fracture which isnt going to heal....I tried the rollator {wont get rid of it} again but found i was supporting myself on one side so much it really hurt my arm and I couldnt go very far. Every now and then I take it out and hope that I'll be able to use it because I loved it.

Thanks for the reminder...I'll try it again.

By the way I have a car and can drive so am lucky in that respect....throw the crutches in the car and just go. Hubby does the big shopping...he just took it over!!!!! I do small shopping.

Love

Eileen UK

Hi Anhaga

Thanks for the information. I will google that and see what comes up close by.

Love

Eileen UK

Hi Chris

Thats the way we do zumba, some sit some stand some sit for a while then stand or others stand the whole time.

I think i must have the wrong impression of it so I'll look into it closer now

Love

Eileen UK

I just sent you a link privately Eileen so you can see some of the DVD for free:-))))  Zumba sounds good:-)))

I do not do the aqua classes any more. My program is individual from a physio.

I add some others I remember from classes but do at my own pace. You need to see someone just for you.

Hi Chris

Thanks I've just got the pm.....I'll check it tomorrow morning. Just going offline now

Love

Eileen

Hi Kathleen

I was referred to a physio by our GP I only saw her twice then I got very sore {the fracture} It was agony and I dont normally say that.. The consultant was trying everything to get on top of the pain and his last resort was cortisone injections. The third time i saw her she could see how sore I was and said "if I were you I would cancel these appointments until you get on top of the pain {not pain free LOL just less} Then ring me and we'll start again.

I got another GP {in the same surgery} and he has put me on MST {morphine} Just 10mg twice a day and it is really controlling it now.

Like I said I'm not pain free but not in the pain I was in. So I'm going to ring the physio tomorrow and make another appointment

Love

Eileen

Before my diagnosis of PMR I tried physio, having had great success with physio over the years.  I was literally in tears from the exercises - ones that are simply so easy to do now that my symptoms are controlled by prednisone that they are pointless and unnecessary.  The physiotherapist gave up on me and suggested massage (boring and not helpful) and a naturopath (which I didn't follow up).  So thankful that a new GP paid attention to my symptoms and test results and diagnosed me within a week of my meeting her!

Hi

I'm glad you found something that works for you

I know some physiotheripists are ver rough but I hopeful with this one....Lesley.....She was the one that suggested I stop coming to her until I got on top of the pain and then make another appointment. She said I dont believe in this "no pain no gain" thing

So I'll try to get her today and see when I can make an appointment. but its only 6.25am now  LOL

Getting my hair done at 99am, then at 10 I'm picking up a friend and going for coffee. So I'll try to get her about lunch time or so.

I'm on the committee of our Arthritis Care branch. We have our last meeting of the year toinight. It's normally at 4pm but tonight its at the Rvensworth Hotel......you never saw a meeting like it LOL We sit down to have our meal, theminutes get thrown to each of us, we skim them, then order our meal, before it comes we get through some business, then have our first course, then get through some more, then have the second course, etc etc........Thats not the norm......thats just the last one of the year LOL

Eileen  UK

Not looking promising unfortunately! I wore yesterday and today. It was not challenged yesterday as I was home. Today I set out for a movie and some Xmas shopping. The move was fine as it was a recliner seat. Then for the shopping I lasted longer than I usually do but after less than an hour I was barely able to get back to the car.

Now back on my recliner at home waiting for it to settle!

Disappointed!

Kathleen, I'm so disappointed too!  Because your pain sounded so like mine I thought it would work for you.  When you put it on and turn the 'pulses' up gradually to as much as is comfortable, does it stop the pain then?  All I could feel at that point was the pulsing which I got used to pretty quickly, so kept turning it up to the amount I was comfortable with.  This stopped the pain completely for me.  Is it not doing anything for you?

Hi Chris!  Are you talking about a TENS machine?  (I must have missed a post).

I have had one for about 2 weeks, thought it worked at first, but......

Mind you, I think it might have been my own fault.  I tried the pads actually where the pain is, i.e. knees and ankles.  Not as they suggested in the info book.

Where is your pain mostly?  And where do you place the pads?

Regards fr Constance

My pain was just below the waist, radiating out to the hip (to be honest, it's so long ago that I'm having difficulty remembering - the TENS sorted it out straight away and a few days of using the TENS stopped the pain permanently until I had anyother physio appointment which got everything flaring up again, but a few days of the TENS sorted it again, and I've not used it since, and this was quite a few months ago)  But I put the pads where it said in the book - two above the waist just under the lower edge of my bra, about three inches from the spine, and the other two below the waist about four inches from the spine.  As soon as I switched it on it helped - all I could feel was the pulsing of it - I put it on strong enough to feel that as much as was comfortable, so it took the pain away and over the few days as I used it less and less, as the instructions said, I just didn't get the pain back again.  Then realised one evening I hadn't used it and had no pain and didn't get pain again until the physio!  It's been in a drawer under the bed for months now, but I wouldn't part with it for the world!  Before that when I sat I was writhing in agony - couldn't get comfortable and didn't know what to do with myself, so it was little short of miraculous for me.

ps - yes TENS.

I was told to put it at the base of the spine on either side. The physio said the nerve radiated out to side around the sacroiliac and place two there. 

I did last longer today than I usually do.

Once the pain returned to the backside I just made it home. The only thing to pull it up then was to sit in the recliner which I normally do to keep it at bay. My back is supported and I am not upright and cushioned to keep it all happy,

I will keep persevering with Tens though.

The pain when it comes is towards a 10 so I am unable to do anything but calm it by doing what I said.

It is depressing!

Anyone else tried TENS on knees and ankles?  Hips I understand where to place pads?

Have you got four pads Kathleen?  Did you get the pain while you were still using it?  I've asked my husband to fish mine out to see what the instructions are for how long to use it each day initially, so will come back when he's done that:-)))

I've not tried mine on knees.  Have thought about it but I imagine that the problems I have with knees are less likely to respond to it, but I might be wrong!  Have read in the paper that a 'plaster' that delivers pain killers throught the day to knees is being developed though.  Also read today that statins may lower the risk of broken bones.  You might get something else instead, but it might be good for some:-)

Right, just got my book out.  There are two different frequencies on it and one activates the spinal gating mechanism and you feel pins and needles, and that's the higher frequency, but the lower frequencies activate the endorphin release mechanism and that's when you feel a tapping feeling.  Are  you getting any pain relief while using it?  It says that the onset of pain relief should occur shortly after the intensity setting has been determined.  But it can take as long as 30 minutes to achieve when using low frequency and often pain relief wil diminish with 30 minutes of the cessation of stimulation but pain relief obtained through low frequency TENS may last longer.  There's a lot more information but it's in diagrams, so difficult to explain!  I remember the first day I used it for about 8 hours and then reduced it to about 5 the second day and did that for a couple more days and then I didn't need to use it any more. I had it on high enough to feel more than tapping - it was almost more like slight contractions of the muscles - I just put it as high as I felt comfortable with.  I did turn the knob the wrong way once initially and thought my husband had shoved me forward and he wasn't there LOL! 

Yes, all four pads! I don't have pain til I reach my maximum walking or sitting on hard or unsupportive chairs. This can take as little as five or ten minutes.

It has to be challenged. I do not have pain at rest or lying down sleeping.

So, when the device is put on me I am not in pain.

What happens today I walked and the pain set in and did not stop until I rested on a recliner.

I think what it did achieve today was I lasted longer than usual bit once the pain caught my left back side near the sacroiliac I got no relief from the Rens.

That's how my pain was.  In fact generally it didn't start until gone 2pm but I guess that was around the time when I was sitting more, but soon after sitting the pain would start and be relentless and I'd be standing up to relieve it but mine was different in that walking didn't seem to produce it as much.  It's difficult to fathom out, isn't it.  I'm concerned that it didn't do anything once that pain caught your left back side - I'd hoped it would immediately take that pain off.  Have you tried it on various settings - the tingling and the pulsing?  Did neither of those do anything to help?

Eileen you have a busy life!  The prednisone helped with my debilitating pain, but it certainly comes with a load of other effects that are not so wonderful.  So far I've got osteoporosis, hence participation in this forum, and appear to be at risk for developing diabetes.  Other effects can include glaucoma and cataracts, and a few other nasty things.  So I desperately want to get off the medication.  Too bad it is the only thing that actually works for PMR.

Hi Anhaga

Glad the tred. is working but sorry about the side effects. Are these side effects OP,  glaucoma, possible diabetes all due to prednisone?

The only thing I'm finding working for my fracture of the greater trochanter bone is some MST {morphine} only 10mg 12 hours apart but I've very drowsey....whether thats a side effect of it or whether thats something else that is doing that I dont know. I've ben on it about 6 weeks and keep hoping the drowsieness will disappear.

The OP ....dont know what started that....it wa osteopinia for a long time then progressed to OP

We'll just have to keep searching for something else to relieve the pain

Eileen  UK

I have yet to do a lot of trialling of the settings. I have turned them up. Just keep trying. I have a letter to a surgeon but was hoping to solve the pain on the side at least.

Anyway, I will not give up using the Tens as might as well keep trying as I have it.

I would have hoped it would have prevented the pain from even starting!

I do still SO SO hope it might help Kathleen.  I had the bottom two patches on the strongest and started it the first day before I even got the pain.  I had a feeling it had somehow 'switched nerves off' with mine, or at least retrained them not to react.

That is my interpretation too. A signal or connection needs to be switched off. A nerve running from the spine to the side area needs to be muted.

Thsnk you for your concern and help. Who knows....it still may work!

Maybe it's just a question of hitting the right spot - I don't know, but am so hoping!

Have you read the Patient info on TENS?   

https://patient.info/health/tens-machines-leaflet

Eileen64. Yes, these are all potential side effects.  In fact bone thinning is not a "side" effect but an inevitable effect, although not everyone will develop osteoporosis.  Prednisone actively interferes with the body's ability to absorb calcium.  I think I must have been osteopenic before, but I didn't know, and no one in the medical profession suggested that I should have a baseline scan, so I'll really never know how resposible the pred was for the ultimate diagnosis.  Sigh.

Low impact only! Just keep moving. You can do that seated. Stretches are even exercises. Walking broken up into small chunks is fine! It has been found in nursing homes just getting people to move in their wheelchairs with music playing has shown improvements to health.

Even small periods of time help think in minutes...five here, ten there etc.

We have to modify to suit ourselves and stop feeling guilty about what we think we should be able to do!

Something as ordinary as taking a shower is exercise.

You get knee replacements and then you can do lots of walking:-))))))