Treating osteopenia and osteoporosis

Vitamin K2, not K1, which is  easy to get from leafy greens.  K2 is essential for guiding calcium into the bones, which Vitamin D on its own can't do.  If you have enough Vitamin K2 you also reduce your risk of adverse cardiac and other problems from calcium getting into organs or onto walls of blood vessels where it doesn't belong.  Because most of our animals are now grain fed, or even "finished" with grain, they are unable to make enough Vitamin K2 for us, and our own bodies only produce a very small amount, which is why a supplement is advised.  Of course if your animal products come from  grassfed animals you proabably will be fine.  The supplement is made from a Japanese fermented soy product called natto.

Vitamin K1 is important, just not for our bones!

Boron is found in prunes, and also in other foods.  I make sure to eat prines every day because I like them.  But I don't think we are likely to suffer a shortage in the same way as we might be short of Vitamins D3 or K2.  Also with calcium supplementation we need to make sure our magnesium supply is kept up or calcium and magnesium can go out of balance and that isn't good either.  It sounds a lot more complicated than it is!

I was taking cod liver oil, more for the retinol than the D, but had to give it up when my Vitamin D level was found to be very high.  Retinol is, as far as I know, helpful rather than harmful for bones.  I think it's the carotenoids which aren't as helpful.  But I could be mistaken.

Thank you for the explanation. It looks like my diet hasn't been as great for bones as I had thought - apart from eating a lot of eggs which have a lot of K2. I have looked up vitamin K2 - it's complicated! Interesting that in Japan they recommend 45mg MK-4 daily to treat or prevent osteoporosis. But on this website they say 0.001mg of vit K per kilo body weight. I'm going to have to read up more!

There's a great website explaining Vitamin K2.  I'll try to find it and private message it.

I know what you mean about learning one has not been eating as healthily as you thought..  Exactly the same for me!  I think I have come to grips with the fact that this is a project for the rest of my life. 

Happy New Year!

I've been taking Vit K2 for about three months now. Been getting odd muscle pains and stiffness, and the chap at my bone boost class asked if there were any changes in my lifestyle. I thought I'd not been eating much in the way of greens recently, and also taking a high dose of K2. I've upped my greens and lots of the aches have gone, but the odd stiffness (quite painful) persists, so I don't know whether it may be linked with the K2. I should see my GP and see what she has to say. They prescribe it in Japan, but the jury's still out here.

I did read that as a side effect of k2 but have ordered some to try it. What is the bone boost class you attend? I was handed a prescription and no advice!

Hi Michele

I hadn't reallised there was a side effect. Can you give me your source? I'd like to know more about that. My doctor is in Wandsworth, and they give the option of attending a falls clinic. I was able to attend a bone boost class for eight weeks, as well as a two hour talk on osteoporosis, diet and exercise. I've finished the bone boost course and am now on the waiting list for further activities - nordic walking and a special gym course. It's really good. I think it depends on your borough/health trust and what they offer. Maybe you could ask your GP, or hospital if they offer anything like that. I think I'm very fortunate in all the support I can access here.

Hi

I just Googled k2 side effects.

You are lucky with the help you have received. I got nothing so have to look into it myself

I take two capsules a day of K2, I had dropped down to the one capsule dose on the bottle but after a while my teeth started to get sensitive again.  I think that I also needed to start taking Vitamin D again after stopping for a while when my level went too high.  Teeth much better again after about a month or six weeks.  People who eat natto (the source for our supplements) get a huge amount more of K2 with apparently no ill effects - just as most people don't overdose on Vitamin D when they go out in the sun!  

But it is important to make sure that you have enough magnesium, especially if you are on extra calcium, as the calcium/magnesium balance can get upset.  Easy way to get magnesium, apart from food - Epsom salt bath or foot bath soak!  Lack of magnesium can cause muscle aches.  I think pottasium is also sometimes implicated in muscle pain or cramps.

potassium   -   oh for an edit button....

Okay, I'll do that. I'm sorry you don't have local help offered. My intention is to build up to 2 hours per day at the gym, as well as exercise classes. Zumba gold has been recommended as well as tai chi. I just need to get on with it. A class is nice as it is easier to stay motivated than on your own.

I get magnesium mostly from dark green leafy veg. But also the calcium tablets I take include magnezium and zinc. I've had muscle aches before, when I don't keep up the leafy veg. It makes a big difference.

I had to do everything myself, including finding out about a "falls clinic" at our local hospital - but I had to wait over half a year before a session I could go to.  But I was lucky to be in contact with friends who had succeeded through natural means and that gave me the inspiration I needed. 

What is the strength of your K2? Mine is 180 mcg and I only take one.

I do not take calcium or magnesium on a regular basis. Vitamin D3 is a must for me. I was taking this long before it was connected to bones protection. 

Are you taking too much? It says to take 180 mcg or up to 200 mcg. 

Thanks for all your advice it has really helped. I work full time in an office so trying to fit exercise in is a problem and don't know what exercise to do with my bad lumbar levels, apart from walking

Hi Kathleen

Encouraged by your posts. Thank you. Haven't started k2 yet as only ordered it. Only diagnosed on Friday so think I'm still taking it all in . Many thanks to you and everyone who responded so quickly. Off to work now

I think that you are very lucky indeed. Up here in the NE it is a mess. The support at our local hospital is woeful so I asked whether I could choose to attend another with good reviews but that was refused.  I was looking for extra activities as you describe so will have to seek them out for myself. Let us know whether the nordic walking etc. is useful.

100mcg per capsule, 1 daily recommended amount although I've been taking 2 lately.  

Mine is the most you can buy here at 180 mcg so I was a little concerned about 600 which I thought might have been a typo. I had never heard of more than 180mcg..

I'm taking 45mg per day, which is what is prescribed in Japan.

I think it would be best to get advice from your GP or a specialist about that. I don't want to suggest things that may impact on your other health issues. I was told not to sit still for more than 20-30 minutes at a time, so I used to get up from my chair on the hour and half hour and do a quick 10 squats. It's easy to do whilst working in an office (okay, maybe your colleages may be a little bemused!). I didn't keep it up, but want to go back to it. Alternatively, can you work standing? There's lots on the internet about that.

Yes, I know that I've been very fortunate here. I was under the impression that patients can choose their hospital now. Perhaps make another request? At my local hospital there is a PALS office, where they will help you with any problems/complaints you have about treatment. Do you have one?

Is that mcg?

mg or mcg?

Mcg

ANW wrote mg.