White flickering light after laser for retinal tear
Posted , 76 users are following.
I posted on here a few weeks ago about a black/gray spot I kept seeing after the retinal tear laser surgery. I saw on the doctor's notes it was the photocoagulation. I also saw that I have lattice degeneration which I'm assuming contributed to the tear. I am not seeing the black spot so much anymore, unless I blink or change rooms with different lightings, but now in its place I am constantly seeing a flashing light that looks white especially in dim lighting. It extends to the side of my eye as well, which I'm assuming is from where the laser was also done. I went to the retinal specialist and said everything looked fine and this could be a side effect of the laser and it generally goes away within a couple months. I'm just wondering if anyone else has experienced this with the laser and if it went away? this has been very disorienting for me and I have been fearing losing my peripheral vision. I'm not sure if I am actually losing peripheral vision or if it just feels that way since I have this constant flickering now on the side. I know it's better to be safe than sorry, but a part of me wishes I never did this laser bc its been causing so many issues for me and supposedly the tear had scar tissue from healing itself. If anyone has had any experience with this and would like to share I would greatly appreciate it. Thank you.
4 likes, 186 replies
chiccolite rose912910
Edited
Hi everyone! I 'm 34 years old and was diagnosed with retinal detachment in my right eye in May 2019 (a little over 3 months ago as I write). This was successfully treated a few days later with pneumatic retinopexy (injection of a gas bubble into the eye to push the retina back in place) followed by laser around the retinal hole that caused it. My doctor also found retinal tears in my left eye so I had those treated as well.
And then about a week ago, I decided to go ahead with laser cerclage (a 360-degree ring of laser to keep any future detachments from involving the macula, which is the center of the retina where detailed vision occurs).
I should also mention that I am an ophthalmologist--not a retina specialist though. But I am here mostly to share my own experience with post-laser side effects. I am not here to offer medical advice.
I found this thread while worrying about my own post-laser symptoms where I have glimmering in pretty much all quadrants of the peripheral part of my vision in my right eye, most noticeable when the lighting changes from bright to dim, lasting several minutes but usually eventually going away. I also see a dark ring when the lighting changes from dark to bright, but fortunately it goes away after about 1 second. I sometimes see a dark spot right by my nose when I blink. I find the glimmering mildly annoying but it is the dark spots that frankly make me sad and feel that my right eye is no longer the same.
I had moderate pain when looking at near objects the first day after laser cerclage, but this quickly improved and now 6 days later it is almost entirely gone, so for those of you guys who have pain I agree with your doctors that (in most cases) it is nothing to worry about, as long as it improves over the first few days.
As for my left eye, I barely notice any glimmering, although this has been the case even immediately after the laser.
I otherwise have clear 20/20 vision in both eyes and none of what has happened has had any impact on what I can do visually, so I have no problems driving or performing eye surgeries.
I theoretically knew to expect these side effects on my right eye, but actually having them myself makes part of me regret having the laser cerclage done. But I believe I did the right thing going ahead with the procedure because before having it done, every little flash of light, real or imaginary, led to profoundly unsettling thoughts of a new retinal detachment and needing major eye surgery or even going blind if it happens really fast--which it can.
Reading everyone's posts here, I noticed that there does seem to be a tendency among eye doctors to gloss over these side effects. In their/our defense, so do the books. I studied general ophthalmology very diligently during my training, and there was no mention of glimmering or dark spots after laser for retinal tears. I checked a retina specialty book, I checked proper medical journal articles on the Internet--nothing on these side effects. In the grand scheme of things in ophthalmology, these are in fact minor compared to the other complications that can happen. But they do not seem minor when we experience them for ourselves. Mine certainly do not seem minor to me.
This is why I am so glad I found this thread. It taught me things I would never have learned from books or journals. I am relieved to see how most of you guys have improved with time. It's great for my own peace of mind and for the way I treat my patients. Thank you for sharing your experiences, and thank goodness that they are mostly good.
As far as I know, there are no direct statements in textbooks about what happens to these symptoms over time--and trust me, I studied hard. So all I have to go on is theory. Which does not always work, but here are my thoughts, as an ophthalmologist who also has these side effects. Lasered retina is dead, but it is a small sacrifice to protect the rest of the retina from detachment. But it is dead, and it's not coming back to life. This is not very encouraging, and does not agree with your experience.
But you guys have in fact improved. I think that this may be because the brain can learn to adjust to a permanent change in visual input, a process called neuroadaptation. So far there is no mention of neuroadaptation in relation to post-laser symptoms--but then again, there doesn't seem to be any mention of these symptoms in the first place. Anyway, neuroadaptation is what is thought to happen in some people who have undergone cataract surgery, where an opaque lens is replaced by a clear artificial lens. Some of these people see flashes of light or dark spots after surgery because of the way the artificial lens bends light. But these go away in most cases after 6 months, faster if the patient can actively ignore them. This is thought to be partly because of neuroadaptation, where in this case the brain learns to ignore useless input from the eye.
There is also the fact that all normal people have a blind spot about 15 degrees away from the center of the visual field (in the horizontal direction going away from the nose). You can find it by closing, say, the left eye, and then holding your finger at arm's length in front of you so that it's in the center of your vision in your right eye. If you move your finger slowly to the right without moving your eye, you should notice its tip disappear then reappear. It takes practice but it can be done. If this does not work, Google "blind spot illusion" (although technically it is not an illusion, the spot is truly blind for everyone). My point here is that this blind spot is real but we don't normally notice it in daily life. It is my hope that as time goes by, our brains will eventually learn to ignore the small retinal deficiencies we have from our laser procedures, the same way it ignores the normal blind spot. Mine is in fact a full cerclage so it's probably a bigger area of laser than most of you guys have, but even so, it is not big enough to make my fingertip disappear the way the normal blind spot does, so that gives me hope that my brain will learn to ignore my dark spots (scotomas) completely eventually.
Of course, none of this is textbook material. This is the sort of thing the medical literature seems to ignore. These are just my thoughts as an ophthalmologist and as a person who experienced this for himself. They haven't been proven, but I just thought I'd share them, because I believe they have at least some scientific basis, and because they comfort me and hope they can offer hope for you guys as well.
dana35538 chiccolite
Edited
chiccolite, thank you so much for your post sorry you are going through this too being an opthomologist, what are your thoughts on what is causing the flickering? do you sometimes think it could be a result of the surgeon? im
6 months out and the flickering is still there same as you in that it gets worse when the lighting change but like you said, the brain does adapt to it being there
clayton19233 chiccolite
Posted
chiccolite
question for you- how much damage to the cornea occurs as a result of using a retinal laser? the reason i ask is due to the ongoing dry eye issues im also having post procedure.
as well i should mention that i also see a spark at night in a very dark room when i move my eyes left / right quickly. this is in addition to daytime flashers. perhaps you could do a medical article on this problem for others to learn from and potentially warn those considering the procedure as a preventative measure.
Angie.martin chiccolite
Posted
Im relieved to read everyones responses as well as the ophthalmologist experience and opinion. . of course i wish no one had to experience such terrifying times as these but feel a little less alone in my quest for answers. Im 52, was told when i was about 28 that i had lattice retina degeneration, not thinking too much about it since the last year or ago. I had a PVD about a year ago in right eye. then 3 wks ago experienced a weird shadow superiorly then a both of floaters. i knew it wasnt good. I went to to retina specialist at UAMS in Little Rock where i had laser for a large retina tear. Went back for check up and had other eye lasered as it had some thinning areas that were likely to tear or even worse detach. So ive had both eyes lasered in this past month and left with the same black shadows (dead retina) and the static/shimmering balls. no mention from the Dr. about these side effects so of course i panicked initially until I started reading what others had to say. Im extremely thankful to have the vision I have and pray it last!
chiccolite Angie.martin
Posted
Hi!
My symptoms (shadows, flickering, flashes) have improved substantially over time. It has been a little over 3 years since I had to have my eyes lasered, and though it took time, I barely notice my shadows and flickering anymore, and when I do, they are down to maybe just 5% of what they used to be at their peak a few days after the procedure. The flashes still come and go, but much less frequently than they used to, and do not bother me at all.
I can't say everything is a full 100% back to normal but I can say that I am perfectly happy with the way things have turned out. So don't worry about your post-laser symptoms!
Of course, we can never promise anything with absolute certainty, but as long as you follow up regularly with your ophthalmologist (and do as he/she says), you should be quite unlikely to lose vision because of retinal detachment and other common-but-treatable problems like diabetes, glaucoma, and macular degeneration.
chiccolite rose912910
Posted
Hi Dana. The dark spots are easier to explain: that part of the retina has been burned by the laser, so it will no longer send signals to the brain, so it looks dark. The flickering is a bit harder to explain, because it seems to appear in the same parts as the dark areas. I have yet to find any real medical literature how this might happen. On a clinical level, I think our symptoms are definitely a result of the procedure, because I know someone else personally who developed symptoms like mine after undergoing laser treatment for a retinal tear. If you meant to ask if it could be because of the surgeon's technique, I think it's highly unlikely that we are experiencing our symptoms because of mistakes on the surgeon's part. The surgeon does not get to decide which part of the retina he has to laser, because he must laser around the retinal tear. I don't see how incorrect laser settings (power, spot size, etc.) can lead to flickering. I believe these symptoms are something we must accept as being part of the price to pay for not having to worry about recurrent retinal detachments. Even so, I am hopeful (with reasonable basis, I think) that they won't be permanent.
I hope that helps. How are your symptoms? How much do you feel they've improved over the past 6 months? I notice that mine improve substantially, if only temporarily, when I'm busy. This isn't even in a way that's like wishful thinking, because I sometimes actually look for them actively during these times and I still don't see them.
dana35538 rose912910
Posted
hi, my flickering is the same 6 months out i have gotten used to it though do you think it could be some sort of light that bounces off the scar that could cause that effect? i also had a vitreous detachment at the same time so maybe a clump of vitreous thats firmly attached in that area? my retinal surgeon also brushed off my symptoms i do know we are lucky in that we didnt lose our sight i would just love an explanation on what causes this mysterious flickeringthanks for your response!
chiccolite dana35538
Posted
No, it can't be light bouncing off the scar. Post-laser scars are dark and do not substantially reflect light. Even the crystal-like particles floating in the vitreous in a fairly common condition called synchysis scintillans do not cause flickering like ours.
Vitreous traction is a possibility if you're seeing outright flashes of light that disappear right away. Retina specialists can spot vitreous traction on clinical examination, or sometimes with an OCT. But if you're talking about the persistent, grainy, static-like flickering, that's unlikely to be vitreous traction, because the books are clear on the symptoms of vitreous traction: flashes of light, which is because of the way the vitreous pulls on the retina.
I checked a 2,700+ page retina text, and found no mention of post-laser flashes, flickering, glimmering, shimmering, static, or anything that's like our symptoms. So let alone an explanation why it happens. I know I am beginning to sound speculative, but I do have explanations to myself and it seems you, at least, want to hear them, so I'll share them here. I think it makes more sense to think of the burned retina as a patch of burned skin, but instead of touch or pain, the signals it sends to the brain are perceived as light. But this does not explain why even scarred retina still flickers. I think this might be because the retina has become "numb" to light and the brain becomes confused interpreting the signal right next to the surrounding normal retina, so it shows up as disorganized flickering.
Again, none of this is proven. These are just my informed guesses, and am sharing this not as medical advice, but just as ideas I think might be true and helpful to those of us dealing with these symptoms.
But I believe that my retina is in fact stable despite the static. Also, I've had my retina specialist check the static-y areas many times over, and the result: stable, stable, stable. So if your retina specialist tells you that your retina is stable, don't let the static make you doubt them. Do have any fan-like flickering checked out though. In my experience, it can either be stable retina or detached retina.
tom1966 chiccolite
Posted
I had a floater-only vitrectomy performed in Belgium. The surgeon, as a matter of course, lasers the retina 360 degrees (cerclage). On message boards, I discovered some of his patients complained of peripheral shimmering, which generally seems to dramatically improve or disappear over time.
In my own case, I had no symptoms for a year and a half, when the shimmering slowly appeared. It's been a full year and the shimmering (from about one to five o'clock) has stabilized, but not improved. I rarely see it outdoors. It's a problem under flourescent lighting and I also experience the phenomenon when I leave a bright light situation and enter a darkened room.
I returned to this surgeon twice, but he could see nothing wrong. I also went to a vitreoretinal specialist in the US who also found nothing amiss.
I've scoured the literature and found nothing about this condition. I only find anecdotal information--it gradually improves or disappears, but in some cases seems permanent. I neither knew my surgeon would perform a cerclage, nor did I know of this potential side effect.
chiccolite tom1966
Posted
Hi Tom! I'm sorry to hear that you actually developed symptoms after that much time. Thank you for sharing your experience, it informs my views on what threshold to adopt when deciding whether or not a patient needs laser cerclage.
I cannot comment on why your surgeon performed a cerclage, but I will share that my retina surgeon told me that I was the first case she has had complain of shimmering (or even shadows) after cerclage. Like you, I've scoured the literature and ended up with nothing about shimmering. I guess this problem just isn't common enough to make ophthalmologists think twice about performing cerclage.
I would never perform a procedure that I think will do more harm than good. Doctors must make a decision about what's best for their patient, but sometimes a patient responds differently and the literature simply cannot capture the entire patient experience so despite our best efforts, patients do sometimes express regrets about having something done.
I'll take this opportunity to post an update about my own experience. It has been almost exactly a month since I had laser cerclage. The dark ring I used to see for about half a second after opening my eyes after having closed them for several seconds now does not seem so dark. The shimmering is still as bad as ever when I come from somewhere bright and go somewhere dimly-lit. But it does not appear as often as it used to. I still have vague peripheral shadows occasionally when I blink, but these are so faint that I am not aware of them when I am busy. I am still trying to deal with these changes on an emotional level, and though I am seeing improvement, I hope to see more so that the emotional adjustment becomes easier, or better yet, unnecessary.
tom1966 chiccolite
Posted
This particular surgeon performs a cerclage for all vitrectomies, ostensibly to prevent retinal detachment. From what I've read, I question whether this is warranted.
I find the shimmering very trying emotionally because I cannot know if it will eventually disappear or diminish or whether it's a permanent condition with which I'll have to learn to live.
christelscott chiccolite
Posted
Hi Chiccolite some time have passed and I wonder how did your flickering develop Did it subside? could you find out more about the nature and management of the problem, as an ophtalmologist yourself?
clayton19233 rose912910
Edited
i had this procedure done about six months ago and the flashers continue. its caused me so much anxiety and depression.
did yours ever go away?
dana35538 clayton19233
Posted
hi clayton, i had my surgery in january of this year ive been left with that white flickering in my peripheral i also had anxiety and depression trying to cope with it i can say now that my brain has adjusted to it being there and i dont notice as much anymore. when i change lighting though, it gets noticable and them seems to adjust i so hope yours will get less noticable too im
so sorry you are going through this
clayton19233 dana35538
Posted
mines the same - im so glad i found this group because no one understands what im go thru. The DR keeps saying it should get better but it could take two years. im pretty sure they are lying to me. and like everyone else i was never warned of this, although im sure it was on the legal consent form. feels like my whole life was taken from me.
i also wish i would of never done this procedure
mar15908 clayton19233
Posted
Hi, Clayton; I am 100% sure it will disappear ; in my case it disappear 14 months later.
I had so much anxiety also during many months; however thanks good, today I am feel very good.
clayton19233 mar15908
Posted
are you serious ??? you have no idea how happy i am to hear someones flashers went away. you are the first sign of hope ive had and you have no idea how much that means to me. thank you so much for your message because ive felt so helpless and hopeless.
mar15908 clayton19233
Edited
When I had this health issue, I tried to find answers to solve my health situation and I wished to hear someone tell me that flashers were going to disappear, unfortunately it did not happen.
Today I can tell you that flashers will disappear 100%. I had two 360 peripheral laser surgeries in my right eye, it was in January 2018; and at the end of March 2019 my flickering symptoms disappeared completely. during last six months, I am having good time without symptoms and now I feel like a normal person.
Good look, I am sure you will be fine and then you have to share your experience to help others.
Good bless you.
clayton19233 mar15908
Posted
No GOD bless you MAR. I've been so down and honestly your message was truly the sign from God that i've prayed for this last six months. The flashers have taken over my life and sometimes i wasn't sure i could go on anymore - so thank you so much for taking some time to answer my question. I know you have given me hope and perhaps hope for others going through the same thing.
Please note that for those of you getting terrible flashers i have found a pair of sunglasses that go over your glasses/sunglasses that eliminates alot of the after effect when moving indoors after the sun. I would gladly send anyone a free pair if you want to reach out to me.
Moderator comment: I have removed the email address as we do not publish these in the forums. If users wish to exchange contact details please use the Private Message service.
chiccolite mar15908
Posted
Thank you for sharing this, Mar. It really means a lot to us going through this. How bad was yours in the beginning? Do you remember how it happened? Like, were there periods of rapid improvement, or did it happen gradually over 14 months? Was there anything you did that you think might have helped the flickering disappear?
Does anyone else see flashes when moving their eyes while looking at a big, brightly-lit, white wall? It's what's been bothering me the most lately.
dana35538 clayton19233
Posted
clayton, i know its so hard but please try and stay positive and know it will improvewe all found this site im sure by googling white flickering light after laser surgery because our doctors dont have explanations for us on why this is happening we are all here for each other!! please try and stay positive i know that was so hard for me for about 4 months after my surgery but im happy now while the flickering is still there my brain has adjusted to and because of that
im not that bothered by it anymore
Rolls mar15908
Posted
Hi Mar15908, Thank you so much for your positive posts. Besides the flickering or that shimmering effect. Did you notice any dark or grey shadows when you go into a dimmer room or change lighting? Or when you move your eyes in a certain direction. When I close my eyes for a few seconds then open them it is a shadow. It comes then fades and this repeats each time I go from room to room, etc.. It is sometimes like a dark extension from the side of my nose when I go into a dimmer light or when I look up or close my eyes then open them. It is also sometimes lighter like a flicker or jelly fish effect that corresponds to the spot where the laser was done.