Citalopram: 20mg for 8 weeks then 30mg for 2 weeks - feel much worse!

My GP told me I can't have diazepam because she is worried about giving out pills so freely. I used to be on diazepam along with cipralex many years ago to deal with my anxiety and depression which I feel is now completely out of control. Let me know how your increase goes and how you feel! Good luck!

My doc only gives a weeks worth but as I don't need them all the time, I have quite a few left!

If you really feel bad, I would insist. You are not going to get addicted on a weeks worth and it might just get you through the bad times. It doesn't make you feel high or anything like that, just calms the nerves down a bit. Are you in the U.K.?

So the increase...well I bottled out of going to 30 and cut it in half. I then got all anxious again and scared so took a diazepam!!! I think however it was just my mind working over time again rather than the citilopram, who knows!!! I feel ok this afternoon but normally do! Stupid illness this is!! X

Hi Gerrymoo

So good to see you posting such positiveness!!!!  That's so incredible you first took meds for a back issue, which then led to anxiety and everything.  It is a long arduous journey for many isn't it and glad you persevered.

Omg that book - how amazing is it.  I'd read others many years previous, but that one beats it.  It is just so accurate.  I'm always passing that on to others now lol   Yes, definitely need royalties haha 

I’m going to read the book too as I need all the help that i can get right now I need getting through this horrific illness until the citalopram starts to work

 

Hope the book is helping you Gemma - it'll help answer lots of questions and allay lots of fears too.  Just keep persevering on the meds - you'll get there.

K x

I've checked and it's seven weeks this Friday since I've been on the citalopram 20mg and the doctors are pushing me to go up to 30. I just don't know what to do. I just want this to get better. I really want to believe that the citalopram will work for me again.x

Wait at least to 8weeks ..but better 12weeks...I know you are struggling ..so sorry ..I know that Medication I told you about will give u sleep..don't know if you want to add another antidepressant ..

It took me until around 3 months on 20mg until I noticed small changes, and it was 6 months on 20mg before I'd recovered.  Changes are often difficult to notice because we often expect to start feeling better, but instead symptoms start easing little by little which often go unnoticed and aren't put down to recovery.

I know 20mg works for me so I wouldn't go higher, but we're all different.  I think as Lois says, maybe wait some more weeks.  A higher dose won't make you better any quicker and you'll still go through the same process of recovering.

You took these meds before?  What dose did you used to take?

Hi Kate I am on 6months 20 mg fluoxetine I have felt a bit better but it is very strong in the mornings and a lot of the day I feel like my head is on a clamp and my thought are muddled I get v down hearted it's so over whelming

I used to be on 20mg before and they worked for me for five years until the doctors told me to take a break (which I now seriously regret). I just can't remember how long it took before I started to feel better. It's just that it feels that I start to make progress then I wake with a panic attack which then sets me back for a while. I just want to be me again and to be able to go to work again.

I wonder what your doctor meant by telling you to take a break from the celexa..is there something sinister going on that we are not told about??

Nothing that I know of. One doctor told me to stay on it as long as I wanted and if that was life then that was fine, but I'm the uk when we repeat prescriptions we need to have a review every so often. So the other doctors that I'd seen for other general non serious health appointments said to me about taking a break seen as I was doing so well. I felt a bit pushed really into making a decision as I was torn by the different doctors. So unfortunately I made the wrong choice in listening to the two that told me to take a break because I wouldn't have been going through this if I'd just stayed on them.

Totally understand ..from all the other peoples experiences I been reading on this forum no doctor in the world is going to take me off this Medication..thank goodness for this forum..I know play Russian roulette with this med..is not very good looking...

Oh I see - mmm I think some doctors get strange ideas sometimes and as you say, conflicting advice.  No I wouldn't have come off, and it is your body after all.  But of course, that's with hindsight as you say now you'd have made the other choice.

Many, many years ago when I was taking meds my regular doctor retired (he'd seen me throughout this illness, my highs and my very lows and through to recovery and he's said I could stay on them for life if I needed to).  My first visit to the new doctor which was totally unrelated to anxiety, I remember he looked at me, leaned back then asked 'isn't it about time you came off these meds'?  I asked if he'd read my notes ..... 'no'.  So I said perhaps he ought to before asking me that question.  He flipped through then said 'ah yes, I see'.  Why would someone who'd never met me, didn't know a thing about me or my history suggest that without studying my notes?  I said I'd decide when it was time and he agreed ok. 

I've been on these meds twice and it took much longer for me the second time around (first time 6 months and second time it took 8 months), and I've read the same with other people too.  If 20mg worked for you before then it should the dose for you again.  There's no harm trying it for more months before deciding.  I also had a totally different experience second time around - first time I had crippling anxiety and second time just completely depressed.

So as my original doctor said, its fine to stay on meds for life.  I have actually come off meds 2 years ago and still feel fine, but I wouldn't hesitate for a second to return to them if I needed to.

K x

That should have said 'then 20mg should work for you again'.

Thank you Kate. One of the biggest problems in the uk when I speak to others is that we don't always get to see our own doctor, it's just whoever is working that day and even though we are assigned one I think I've only met mine once in the last five years even when I've requested to see him. I think I'm going to try and hang in there on 20mg for a while but I'm scared of this and I just long to get past it.x

This probably isn't what you want to hear, but I have read that if you stop and then later start the same SSRI, then sometimes you need to up the dosage to get the same effect, or even switch to a different SSRI.

?I forget how long you've been on the 20 mgs., but if it's been over 2 months I personally would try the 30 mg. You can always cut back down to 20 mg. again, either after you've stabilized or if you feel the 30 mg. isn't working, either.

?I know this is tough to keep messing around with different dosages, and waiting for it to kick in. Just keep in mind there are many different medications available, if Citalopram doesn't work for you this time.

 

I’m going to see how I go over the next few weeks but yes I think it may come to that eventually but it’s just terrifying the thought of altering them again.x

Hi Julie

6 months is quite a fair time, though still room for progress.  Yes mornings are always the worst for us who suffer, though that isn't an indication of how the rest of your day will turn out.  Even as I was a long way down the recovery route and felt quite well, I'd still wake every day feeling full of anxiety and dread.  This wore off throughout the day and I'd feel quite normal and anxiety free by the evening.  Those normal times grew more into my day until I eventually started waking with no anxiety.

That tight clamp around the head is to do with a lot of inward thinking / focus on yourself most of the time.  It can't be helped and a side effect of the anxiety.  Try having a daily walk, drinking lots of water, don't use a computer, phone, laptop etc in the evenings as this will help alleviate that feeling.  Yes my thoughts were often muddled too and I couldn't read more than a page of a book a day as concentration was abysmal.  Again its all the thoughts, trying to work out whats wrong, where to go, what to do, over analysing, searching for relief etc etc that gives us this inward thinking / tight head.  Understanding anxiety answers those constant questions and searching, allows you to have a little head space, gives you a focus and though the anxiety will still be present it will help towards breaking the constant anxiety / fear / anxiety cycle along with the medication.

K x

Hi katiecogs! Would you mind sending me the book as well. Struggling and need some encouragement 

I appreciate this post so much!

I know different doses work for different people, but I wondering if you have ever had to increase your dose katecogs? Do you think if you have blips that an increase may level those out? I have been on 20mg for years but then migraines panic and insomnia crept in. With my doctors advice I have increased to 30mg. I always felt like the citalopram was a wonder drug but that my mood could be lifted a bit more. I guess I'm just looking for reassurance as since I have increased my dose so many side effects have been occurring and I just so desperately want to feel like my self again! Especially for my family too. 

HI Jeanie

Sorry for the long delay in replying - but yes I’ll send you the link.

K x

Can you also send me the link as well please? 

Thanks for all the encouraging posts! 

Hi Evan

No I never increased my dose.  I started straight on 20mg and stayed on that throughout recovery.  After a few years on it I reduced to 10mg and stayed on that for many years.

You'll get blips whatever dose you take - it seems they're a necessary part of recovery, so no an increase doesn't necessarily level it out.  Sometimes a different manufacturer will supply your meds and some people react to this and feel anxiety / side effects again.  Whilst the active ingredient is the same, it's the inactive ingredient that can differ (that's the outer shell).  You can check if the PL number on the side of the box or bottle is different to what you had before.

Other than that, it may be that you had some stress going on as anxiety is often the result of that.  Once it starts you can panic at feeling this again which then starts off the anxiety cycle instead of letting it be.

I'll send you a link.

K x

Kate, 

Can you send me the link to the information for the book? 

Thanks! 

Will do caperecovery - I'll private message you.

K x

Hi I'm new here, have just sent my first post with questions about citalapram. I love your posts they are giving me hope. Could you please send me the links for the book and website. Many thanks Ann 😉

Hi Ann

Glad my posts are being helpful for you.  I'll sent you the links too.

K x

Hi katecogs

I have the link you sent and have been reading the articles on anxiety and also depersonilation.It all makes sense but seems to hard to do. I am on day 23 of 10mg citralapram. I feel so confused. Your post about extreme anxiety 1st thing, meaning the tablets are working, was really helpful yesterday until I was,awake in the night and now this morning. I thought that's ok I will be able to deal with it now but no I am a mess. I dont know how to cope. I get that feeling a lot and am stuck in the trying to feel better NOW. Reading posts nd the article you gave me the link for. Which says we don't need tablets or counselling so more confused. I should be at yoga but don't want to go, I stopped my dance classes again. I generally only go out if my hubby cab come with me. Even being I the garden is scary. Sorry for rant. Xx

Hi Ann

The book author didn't take medicine, but that was his choice.  The meds alone will help you recover ...... and the book alone will help too ..... BOTH are are great combination.

The meds will (in time) help your body to relax more, increase your Serotonin (happy neurotransmitters) by handing onto them (this will make you feel happier) ..... all of this will help to soothe the anxiety which in turn will stop the mind from racing etc.  

The book does the same - its an easy method, but its not easy as its allowing anxiety to be present instead of fighting it.  This desensitises the body.

Both these take time - you can't stop the anxiety now, but it will in time.  Its very hard to see this will ever happen but that's because you're in the middle of it all and can't see any way out - but it will happen.  As you begin to feel better you'll rise above it, but for now you have to wait.

Its like having a broken leg - you wouldn't expect that to heal in an instant - and so its the same for anxiety.

Most people who take the meds go through relatively the same path.  Feel worse to start with on the meds, don't see anything happening, and around 3-4 months may start seeing improvements.  We all get setbacks too where the anxiety comes back and forth - thats normal, and as you recover the setbacks get less and less until the anxiety goes away.

The book talks of why we become like this (stress), why it hangs around (because we fear the anxiety and the fear causes more anxiety, and also anxiety's side effects cause us more fear and anxiety) so we get stuck in a cycle.  The book talks about each side effects, accepting them for now, relaxing (floating) and working with the anxiety present.  This allows you to pass through and out the other side.  It is hard because your instinct is to run from it ........ but running / fighting it is the wrong thing.  Accepting and passing through it (however uncomfortable it is) is the right way.  Passing through means letting those feelings be there and to carry on with whatever you're doing (sort of ignoring it).  Its like allowing a wave of water to sweep right over you, or letting the hurricane swirl about whilst you get on with your day.  Its our reaction towards anxiety that keeps us constantly anxious - we fear the fear.  By accepting, allowing, ignoring and carrying on will eventually desensitise the body and the anxiety dies away.

The author went through exactly the same - he allowed himself to feel the fear, went out feeling like it however bad he felt, and the more he did he found he recovered more.

For some people the book is all they need, and for others the meds is what they need.  I personally found that reading the book took away a lot of the mystery surrounding anxiety, it stopped me floundering around wondering which way to go as it gave me one direction.

If you need counselling then go to it.  Take the meds too.  The book is an enhancement.

Some people read the book many times before things sink in, and of course some people may not get it at all.

You're still very early with Citalopram - this takes months for many people, so carry on.  It will feel never ending at the moment but the wait it worth it.  The book is there to just help you through this at the moment, and often it becomes even more apparent the more you recover on the meds.

K x

Hi again Katecogs

Thank you so much for your reply.

I seem to have a billion questions, I believe this is part of the anxiety, and would like to speak more with you if that's ok, I fully understand if not.

Is it normal to read something, like your reply and also I have started on the book you recommended and then question everything after 5 mins?

I have found what I have read so far really helpful then I start doubting myself. Like is it ok to go out with someone when you're feeling awful or should you go alone?  should you start small, like a spell in the garden or for exercise instead of going straight back to dance class maybe 10 mins on the Wii, although that's a different environment I suppose.

Typing this I now feel like I am loopy. lol

I had CBT earlier this year which is very much like the book tells you to do, and was much better, then my sessions ended and I went back to square one.  I am seeing a psychotherapist now.   I had been doing all the right things, going out and also went back to dancing, then I stopped it all again because the anxiety increased.This has happened again now after feeling much better, although I still had the overthinking etc,  so does the desensitisation work or did I do something wrong?

You said that I won't  see any improvement for 3 months , none at all, or just gradual,  sorry I know that falls into the I want to better now.

I am struggling with the disconnected feelings I am having, they have got worse over the last week.  I have been told it can be the medication and it should pass but again when?

Also just made an appt with my optician as my vision is a bit blurry, eyes ache and feel a bit gritty. I have been told that this could also be the Citalapram.  Optician said I may have to change meds, I certainly hope not now I have come this far.   I am very quick to blame the tablets for everything as I really didn't want to take them after having a bad experience with sertraline earlier in the year. I think taking them made me a lot more anxious because of my fear of them.

Thank you so much for taking the time to help me, I suffer with a compulsion to speak to someone to get reassurance, I don't know if that's another symptom.   

Ann x

 

Hi Ann

I don’t mind the questions at all xx.

Everything you’re thinking and feeling is completely normal with anxiety.  We all have a compulsion to search for answers online, with people, in books etc etc because we want relief now.  

We question everything and doubt everything.  Out mind goes into overdrive - that is the anxiety doing that.

Its hard to believe something when you’re feeling so negative and your mind is whizzing along.  Yes you will question that too - its normal to do that.  However - the further you read the book it will explain that all those thoughts create more anxiety.  You start with the first fear which caused anxiety - then the second fear starts and thats the constant churning and mulling over and over the questions and doubts - its this second fear that keeps the anxiety alive.  Its normal to do that in the circumstances, but its one that you will learn to stop.  This in turn will dampen the flames that keeps the fire alive (anxiety).  If that makes sense.

When I first learnt about anxiety my mind then thought that it was other people who recovered, not me.  When I read the meds work for some my mind I’d be in the minority.  Those are normal thoughts and the book will explain how you allow those thoughts to be there, ‘ignore’ them by not engaging with them, and carry on with whatever you’re doing.

This might seem too simple - but it works.  Not overnight - but with continued practice it slowly stops those thoughts.

Go out with who you want or on your own.  There is no rule.  Start however you want.  This isn’t about going out and not having anxiety or avoiding it, but its about facing it, letting it happen, relaxing, letting it sweep over you and remaining where you are.  It always passes.  Yes it won’t feel comfortable.

So going out and doing all those things was good - but stopping because the anxiety increased was EXACTLY the time for you to carry on and not stop.  That is THE time to practice - you can’t practice without anxiety.  This is how desensitisation works.

Everyone is different on the meds - a lot of people start seeing small changes around 3 months.  It happens very, very gradual and often goes unnoticed.

Feeling disconnected is normal with anxiety.  We become so consumed with anxiety, our thoughts that race, the confusion etc etc so its no wonder we feel detached.  Don’t worry about it - it’ll go when anxiety goes.  There is no point worrying about anything because all the thoughts, feelings etc are all due to anxiety.  When you have a cold you wouldn’t about the sneezing or sore throat because you know they’re a side effect of a cold.  All the side effects will go once anxiety goes, so there’s no point worrying about them.  They only add more anxiety on.

Vision can be blurry I’ve read with anxiety - eyes ache and feel gritty because of all the concentration and probably the constant searching for an answer online.  The answer is in that book.  Your optician isn’t an expert on the meds so I’d ignore his comment.  Speak to your Psychiatrist about them, but I’m sure all is fine.

Being afraid of the meds - again thats second fear.  This will just add more anxiety to your anxiety.  Anxiety makes you doubtful and fearful - without anxiety you wouldn’t feel or think like it.

I felt exactly the same - wanted to speak to people constantly about this condition.  Its reassuring to share what you’re going through and knowing others have been down the same path.

And no, you're not loopy.  These are all typical side effects, thoughts and reactions to anxiety.  I did exactly the same.

K x

hi katy,

i have a few questions i hope you can help with:

Im curious is the book by p.a.,  only for anxiety or is it also for depression?  I read the book that you originally recommended by claire weekes ,and although interesting she mentions that it treats nervous breakdown. Is depression different from nervous breakdown?  I have depression but I know that anxious mood is part of depression, so would floating work for me, or is it specific to anxiety disorders?

also does it take 3-4 months on ssri to see an improvement in your anxiety symptoms and to feel better?

I also read that you mentioned your son took 4 months to start seeing results from prozac and nine months to recover. But you also mentioned that he had to add mirtazapine to help? or did he recover from prozac alone? did you have to add another medication to help you to wellness or was it just the citalopram, and how do you know if you need to add another medication?

sorry for all the questions, i appreciate all the help, and find your words encouraging.

sincerely,

christos

Hi Christos

The book is mainly about the anxiety disorder, though of course depression is often part of this too.

Yes Dr Weekes talks of nervous breakdown which is usually the result of stress which leads to depression, anxiety etc etc.  I think today that term has vanished but believe it does mean anxiety / depression etc.

Before I knew what was wrong with me, any suggestion to me of a nervous breakdown would send me into a spiral of panic because I associated it hysteria and loopiness.  That wasn’t me.  Nervous breakdown is simply your body not being able to cope anymore with stress.

Depression can be part of this and it can also be a mood disorder.  I’m not a doctor so I can’t really say which is which.

Yes it can take 3-4 months before you see an improvement - but its so different for everyone.  Some people take longer and some see a difference sooner.  Often people don’t notice they’re improving because recovery creeps up real slow and small changes such as sleep improvement, appetite, headaches etc aren’t seen as changes and recovery.  People expect their anxiety to ease or their obsessive thoughts to go away in an instant.  It doesn’t work like that and for me, the anxiety (especially morning anxiety on waking) was the last symptom to go - that was at 6 months.

Yes my son was unable to work for 4 months, and though small changes started happening for him around then he was still not well.  I noticed it was about 6 months when I saw improvements in him (he began whistling around the house)!!!  And yes, it was about 9 months before he was anxiety / depression free.  Today he’s perfectly well, his old self again and has no problems at all - 3 years of being well.

My son took Mirtazapine as well as Prozac.  He started on Pozac and then the doctor introduced the Mirtazapine after a while.  When he’d recovered he stayed on meds probably a further year and then first withdrew from Mirtazapine and then the Prozac.

I personally never had any other meds other than an SSRI to help me - I was on Citalopram btw, which is another type of SSRI like Prozac.

The only other thing that helped me recover was learning / understanding about anxiety.  It put it in a different light, I learnt why it came about, why it stayed and how to help myself too (with or without meds).  It made it become less of a monster I’d once thought it was.

No problem with all the questions - I’m only too glad I can help.

K x

Hi Katy,

thanks for the reply. I myself have been struggling with depression for 22 years, was diagnosed at 17 with depression,  and first tried prozac for a year and that didnt work, (made me feel worse) and was on effexor xr for 12 years and that helped a bit but still felt anxious on it and went all the way up to 450mg! Too many side effects with that one. So now im trying cipralex (escitalopram) 20 mg and been on that for 3 months now. Im just hoping i will see results like you say happens for you and most people between 3 months and 4months.

I always assumed that depression is a chemical imbalance? do you agree with this? I didnt really have too much stress before I became ill when I was 17, but It started happening when I was travelling overseas in Asia. When prozac failed for me | assumed that medication wouldnt work. But just because one ssri doesnt work doesnt mean another ssri wont right? 

Im glad you and your son are fine now! Hes lucky to have had your help guiding him through the darkness. It was  hard for me because family dont understand depression and think you are exaggerating or being lazy etc. Did your son have a mood disorder or ?

well thanks for all the support,

sincerely,

chris

Hi Christos

Yes I do believe depression is a chemical imbalance - same as anxiety.  Its not in the head.  Yes the ‘mental’ anguish comes after, but the cause I believe is chemical.

Take anxiety - ok stress usually causes this (as well as trauma, drugs, alcohol).  Your body is overworked and is pumping adrenaline around (adrenaline is chemical).  Eventually something has to give and its usually an outpouring of adrenaline which is anxiety / panic - and its frightening.  So we then become afraid of this chemical reaction and produce more of the same because we fear it.  That is chemical.  The mental side then starts as our mind overworks trying to work out whats wrong, trying to find a cause, a cure and whatever else comes along.  This mental side of it then causes more anxiety (chemical) and it keeps us in a constant loop.  It can be fixed.

There’s all sorts of things that can cause depression too - why else would it linger if you have nothing in your life to be depressed about?  Why won’t it shift?  

Someone I chat to on this site has taken a DNA test to see which anti depressants are more suited to him as not all meds work on the same neurotransmitters.  You might be deficient in one, and if you’re taking a meds that work on another then its not going to help.

Oh absolutely - people who haven’t suffered simply don’t understand depression or anxiety.  They think anxiety is like being nervous before an exam or that being depressed is something they have when they’re fed up.  A friend once said to me when I was having a bad morning ‘what you need is a nice little holiday and you’ll come back all refreshed and happy’.  I wanted to slap her - and what she didn’t realise was that I’d take my damned anxiety with me on holiday, I’d have it on the beach whilst relaxing, I’d take it on days out and I’d dam well bring it home with me too.

Nobody knows what its like - not even doctors, unless they’ve suffered with it themselves.  You can describe it in the minutest of details, and still they wouldn’t get it.  They don’t think you live and breathe it every second of your waking day, and even sleep is disturbed making you feel even more wretched.

No my son didn’t have a mood disorder.  He just became stressed, depressed and it led to anxiety.

K x

Hey Katy,

I have been on cipralex (escitalopram) 20mg for 14 weeks now and hoping to see some results.. will I see a easing of anxiety, and depression  between 3-4 months? I mentioned that i took prozac before for a year and it didnt help. but just because that ssri didnt work , doesnt mean this ssri wont work right? Im a little worried about it.

thanks

Chris

Hi Christos

Everyone is different and there's no set timescale for all.  For me anxiety was the last symptom to go.  Usually small changes start happening which can be sleeping better, appetite picked up, headaches eased, thoughts a tiny bit clearer etc etc and often people don't associate these with recovery.  They expect the anxiety to ease off.  It can though ......

Usually you take the anxiety with you throughout recovery - those small changes start to happen, and you might start having little glimpses of feeling well and relaxed.  These can be a few minutes or like me, if happened in the evening only.  Those glimpses of 'normality' get more frequent and longer - but they're often still mixed with anxiety, blips etc etc.  That's normal.  Recovery often happens very slow and can take many months.

Just because one SSRI doesn't work for you it doesn't mean another won't either.  There are many SSRI's around and each are tailored to different people.  It does seem to be trial and error finding the right meds and then finding the right dose for you.

K x

Hi Katy,

thanks for all the help! I live in Canada. Is it ok to take a benzo  in the meantime to help while waiting for ssri (escitalopram) to kick in? 

Also, so you began noticing an easing of anxiety in the evenings for you between 3 and 4 months is that right?

I really like your cat avatar btw, its cute. I have a furry feline myself called Gizmo.

thanks

Sincerely,

Chris 

It absolutely is ok to take a benzo.

I have had anxiety for years and have had to rely on benzo just to break the cycle. I have managed to keep a great job and enjoy life.  Right now I am going through a tough patch as my husband has been diagnosed with a non curable cancer...I went from no anxiety to the worst.. I increased the celexa and am taking a benzo at night and in the morning.  You do what you need to do to lead a normal life.  Meditation helps, exercise helps and the insight that the author Katy talks about helps.  It helps to float through the anxiety but it is sure hard to do.  

Word..but It sucks that many doctors don't like to prescribe benzos. Were you diagnosed with an anxiety disorder sharon, or depression? I have depression but seem to have an anxious mood.

Chris

Hi Christos

I've never taken a Benzo with these meds, but know some people do.  Agree with Lois though and its fine to take - but always check with your doctor if adding in any meds.

Yes around 3-4 months I started getting periods of feeling normal in the evenings - I just felt so relaxed and clear headed - as if someone had switched a lightbulb on.  Felt good.  I'd wake every morning though feeling absolutely dreadful and full of anxiety, but again the evening came and I'd start feeling ok.  This became a pattern and I started looking forward to the evenings.  I still had blips though so some evenings I didn't feel great.  But it came back and this feeling slowly grew more into my day over many months.

Haha - glad you like my avatar   I've 3 cats at home - 2 Ragdolls and a tabby.  Love cats.  Awww Gizmo is a cute name!!

Hi Chris anxiety and depression are not for cowards that is why we are all strong people.  I am diagnosed with anxiety disorder.  It ebbs and flows.  Right now is bad due to personal circumstances but it does get better and I feel calmest in the evening.  

absolutely sharon, we are all strong people. thanks for all the support guys.

So Katy, how long should one give an ssri before throwing in the towel? Im at 15 weeks on escitalopram 20mg (an ssri similar to citalopram) and still have anxious feelings (need to take benzo sometimes)..is this normal? Or should I give it till 4 months before switching?

Also if I do switch I was thinking would switching to citalopram work, if escitalopram didnt?

Is it true you took tricylics for 16 years and they didnt work for you?

thanks for all the support and encouragement once again.

Hi Christos

Mmmm it could take longer than 4 months - just because you've taken SSRI's before and I remember my second time on meds took much longer.  First signs of recovery to look out for - sleep improves, appetite too, feel slightly at ease (might only last for a short while), head feels slightly clearer .........  I started feeling more rested in the evenings only and over the months that grew into my day.  I'd have setbacks / blips still so would feel bad all day and into the evening, but they went away.  It was at 6 months when I truly felt well and like myself again.  It was at this time when I didn't have any anxiety at all.  From there on the occasional blip still cropped up but it was mild and disappeared.

Citalopram might work if Escitalopram didn't yes.  But you really need to stick to one meds for a long, long time before you can tell.

Yes I took tricyclics for around 16 years and no they didn't work at all.  I was ill with anxiety all that time and probably those meds just took the edge off.  But I felt pretty dreadful every day anyway though I had a couple of long periods in that time when I completely recovered.

Though I read many books on anxiety and understood about it, I think I was too entrenched in the anxiety habit to get myself out of it then.  It was when SSRI's first came into the UK in the 90's that I was switched to an them and 6 months later I'd recovered.  I couldn't believe it!!  I remember the therapist talking me through this 'new medicine' and drawing little diagrams telling me what they did etc.

 

Hey Kay, 

thats cool. I decided to switch over to citalopram 20 mg after 3 months and 11 days of suffering on escitalopram. Funny enough I already feel calmer after 2 days on citalopram then I did on escitalopram!

I was wondering, why do doctors and all the info on the web like webmd, etc all say ssris take 4-6 weeks to kick in if it takes a lot  longer?  also did you gain weight on citalopram, or did it make you anxious at first? Also were you able to work during your time  (6 months ) on celexa?

thanks for all the help. 

You should stay on Citalopram and the same dose now then for a good 3-4 months - even if you feel really bad.  Just stick it out.  Some people do feel calmer to start with - hopefully it will continue for you, but don't be too surprised if setbacks happen, they just seem part of recovery that you go through.

I'm not sure why so much info says 4-6 weeks as we, the people who suffer and take these meds, know different.  Maybe it is 4-6 weeks when the meds do kick in (established in the body) but we don't feel any benefit for a long time after that?  Maybe thats why doctors think we should be feeling somewhat better by then because they're basing that on that ........ 

No I didn't gain any weight on Citalopram and I'm not actually sure if the meds made me anxious at first - it was such a long, long time ago that I first took them (the 1990's).  I was so very ill anyway so I'm not sure I felt any more anxiety because I was suffering so much anyway, but the second time I took them in 2014 I only had one night where I was extremely anxious.

Yes I worked when I first took meds - in fact I worked for the 16 years I was ill and on different meds, though I did have the occasional day off sick when I just couldn't face the world.  But the majority of the time I worked.  It was hard going in but once there it was better for me as I preferred being with people than on my own at home.

 

I listened and read katecogs advise to others and also her experience on celexa ..and I recovered even when I was feeling the worst I would go back to her comments and it gave me courage to stick with this Medication..

I have been on Celexa now for almost 9 months and I am still not fully better. It's a long road to recovery but I do know I eventually will get there.  It takes months for your brain to adjust and for that nervous system to settle down. My GP warned me not to expect results in 6 weeks. She said I would at least need 6 months to see significant improvement and she was right.  I have had many times where I wanted to throw in the towel thinking Celexa is just not working but  I was so very ill that you don't recover in 3 months. To see progress I have to look back at the months and not at the weeks. When I look back at the months I realise how much I have recovered. Hang in there. It will get better. 

Thanks Katy,

yes I hope to stay on the dose and give it 3-4 months. Its frustrating when you have to go through a few medications and still not find the right one. I read that many people have to go through a few medications before finding the right medication that helps them. I was on Prozac for a year and that didnt help, and effexor for 15 years and that didnt cure me. I just was on escitalopram for 3 months and 11 days and that didnt help. So hopefully celexa will be my magic pill. I appreciate all the encouragement and help

Ssris don't cure depression or anxiety they are a tool to help you feel better .if they were a cure we wouldn't be experimentint with them..just saying

It is frustrating due to the discomfort and time it takes.  You can actually pay for a DNA test which determines which meds are best suited to your body.  Though you pay it does save you time.

Citalopram was my third meds, though must admist all the ones I took were right for me and worked the same - just that I developed anger issues with the first and the second one was discontinued.Definitely tough times.

Hi lois,

actually ssris do cure depression or anxiety for many people and they help to make you feel better. Katecogs is an shining example of being cured and no longer needing to take medication. Her son is another example. Some people may need to take them for life sure but many people are completely cured. Experimenting or trial and error is just the nature of these medications, and often people need to try a few to find one that works for them. Its like finding a key to unlock your brain and chemistry.

I appreciate all the advice Katy, and will keep going and not give up, even when things get tough. Im only on day 5 of citalopram. What are your cats names btw?\

Chris

hey Katy,

how long were you on seroxat before changing due to anger problems? And also which was the second ssri that you took and how long were you on that one for before it was discontinued? Also did you try many trycyclics or was it just one for 16 years?

Sorry for all the questions, and thanks for all the help!

Chris

Hi Christos

I was on Seroxat for a year and it worked great, but it strangely affected my temper which I found hard to control, and the second SSRI I took I can't remember the name of now.  It was discontinued / taken off the market completely and nobody bothered to tell me - I only found out when I couldn't renew my prescription.  I was then switched to Citalopram which again worked perfectly well for me.

The tri-cyclic I was on was Anafranil (16 years) and no I don't think I had others - I just along with what I was prescribed and never questioned it back then.

Cats names btw are Tabitha (a tabby cat) 18 years old, and two Ragdolls called Luna and Ursa who are 2.

hey Katy,

cool. But I guess the seroxat still didnt cure you like citalopram did and had side effects so thats why you switched? I guess for some people if the medication is the wrong one it will make a person worse, while if it is the right one it will make one feel better?

Nice names for your cats wow Tabitha is long lived. Cats make great company.

The Seroxat certainly did help me initially and I felt really well on them, but yes I had that awful side effect which wasn't nice at all - I'd easily fly into a dreadful temper and it felt uncontrollable.  So yes that's why I asked to try something else.  I felt completely calm on the next meds and Citalopram too.

Yes Tabitha is our longest living cat of all time - she's a grumpy cat (doesn't like other cats and often biffs the other 2) ... and sleeps a lot nowadays.  Yes they're super company and often keep us amused.  I couldn't be without a cat at home 

Hey Katy,

on seroxat you were like : "Hulk smash!! " just joking. has Tabitha  ever hissed at you? Yeah cats are adorable.  

Actually yes I was nearly like that - I felt an uncontrollable temper rising up at times and could easily have broken things (didn't rip my shirt off though)   It was like having permanent PMT.  Yes Tabitha has hissed at me, but generally she's very loving with us, its just the younger cats she doesn't like.  Lashes out and hisses at them if they come too near.  She was the same with our previous cats who shared our home with her.  They since passed on and we acquired 2 new kitty's a couple of years ago.

lol to the shirt ripping but did you wear purple pants? I guess Tabitha finds the younger cats too roudy and since shes old she can become cranky . My cat Gizmo is 13 years old and still likes to run and play like a kitten. Sometimes she growls at me but generally is very loving. Those times she is naughty I call her gizmo kaka. 

Hey Kay,

just curious, what is the difference between major depressive disorder (a mood disorder ) and a nervous breakdown? My previous doctor said usually people with nervous breakdowns have to go to the hospital for a stay. Im not sure if that is correct.

Haha - not purple, but does blue count? 

Tabitha hasn't like any other cats, even when she was younger (didn't like our previous ones either) ... but yes the younger ones are a bit boisterous for her.  Mind you, like Gizmo, occasionally when they're out she'll go all kittenish and suddenly race around with their toys lol.  13 years is a good age too - love the growling haha  

A depressive disorder can be different from an anxiety disorder, though often depression accompanies anxiety.  From what I understand suffering from anxiety is the same as a nervous breakdown, but the term nervous breakdown isn't used so much these days.  When you have anxiety your body has reached a point of not being able to cope anymore with stress - so it can be classed as having broken down.  When I was ill the term nervous breakdown sounded like a serious mental condition and conjured up images of padded cells etc., but its not that at all.

No people with nervous breakdowns don't 'have' to go into hospital.  I believe they may have used to - and I remember seeing films about people relaxing in a sanitarium in the country which actually is what the body needs - peace and relaxation.  But no, people don't go into hospital these days unless of course they're at risk to themselves.

K x

Hey Kay,

regarding the pants- you can wear blue pants if your the grey hulk but everybody knows green hulk wears purple pants 😃

Just a question regarding celexa: Ive been on 20mg for 3 weeks now, and there are times I felt more anxious, and worried that the dose wasnt enough and for the past few days I upped it to 30mg, but I ended up feeling maybe a little worse in a way, like out of it, or more nervous, irritable. So Im wondering: how do you know if your dose is too high? Is 30 mg too high for me? I know its still early days. thanks for all the help

Yes purple for the green hulk - don't think a grey hulk would be the same.

Increasing any dose will give you side effects again and will heighten your anxiety - even after 3 weeks. My personal view is to give each increase a good month or two time to settle. The side effects by then should have gone away but you'll still have to deal with the anxiety. I took 20mg and it was 6 months before I was better and throughout that time I had anxiety every day. It seems you take the anxiety with you though it will ease.

Sometimes people find their side effects just don't go away, even after many many months. This can mean the dose is too high and a reduction soon brings about a change in their symptoms. You can't tell which dose is for you though until you've given the dose months. Also if during that time you haven't had any brief periods of feeling relief / feeling normal then maybe the dose needs adjusting. These brief periods will come and go and the anxiety eases and comes back - this happens on all doses. But if you start feeling them then its a good indication the dose is working - and more time is needed.

A lot of people will also rush up through the doses in a desparate attempt to rid themselves of anxiety - but all this does is cause more anxiety. You cannot rush these meds at all - never - and as said you can't tell which dose will suit you until you've given enough time for each to settle. I know how agonizing it is living every day with anxiety (I had it for 16 years) ... but you wouldn't expect a broken leg to heal overnight or in a week ... it takes months, and so it'll take the same time to heal your nerves.

K x

Hey Kay,

thanks for the help. I guess I probably havent given the 20mg long enough as it is only 4 weeks now. I have moments when I feel quite well, often when im by myself, and my sleep has improved. are these signs that the med is working? I probably increase too quickly as I think more will take care of the anxiety. (plus it doesnt help that the doctor said i can go up to 30mg by week three ).

p.s. you can wear blue pants, mom jeans or anything you like as she- hulk has no real dress code, only male hulk has traditional wear. my bad.

Yes 4 weeks is very early days - I always say count in months not weeks - tick each one off as they pass.

That’s how it worked for me - I’d get those moments / glimpses of feeling quite well, normal, my mind cleared - mine would appear in the evenings. It was like someone had switched a light on. Yes they’re signs the meds are working and you’re recovering - those moments should increase over time. You’ll probably still get blips so don’t be too alarmed if you feel the anxiety returning from time to time - it will go.

Yea its hard if you increase too quick - your body copes better with little increments and not a large dose all at once.

Haha - oh yes jeans!!! Glad I’m not male then as purple isn’t in this season lol 🏃👀

HI what mg are you on thank you

Hey Kay,

I was wondering what dose were you on when taking anafranil? Did you get lots of side effects like wieght gain ,etc?

Cheers!

Hi Christos

Sorry no I can't remember what dose I was on for Anafranil - it was about 22 years ago I reckon. I don't remember any side effects other than a dry mouth and no I never had weight gain.

Me too please!!

plz could i have the link plz xxx

Dear katecogs, can you please send me link to The book? THANK you!

Can you please send me a link to the book?

Hi there Katecogs.

i have read lots of your messages on this thread and fee as though you are a real inspiration to many of us that are suffering so THANKYOU for that. Im not in a good place at the minute, i feel a relapse to the dark world of Anxiety but then i beat myself up big time as i have nothing what so ever to be Anxious or down about. I have the dreaded morning fear and dark cloud lurking over me and it seems as if this is getting worse, the more that im trying to seeing it through and persevere. By the way, ive been on citalopram for approx 10yrs now (omg).

Anyhow, to cut a very long story short, could you please share the name of the book/s that have helped you. i really need to climb out of this dark hole.

much love and respect

Zee

Hi Zee

I suspect you’ve had some recent stress in your life? This is usually the cause of anxiety, and once anxiety starts we ‘remember’ past suffering and get ourselves caught up again in the anxiety / fear anxiety cycle. Being on meds should help you through mind, but yes I’ll send you the link.

I need to send the link by private message as links aren’t allowed on the public forum and I’m also now allowed to post the book title here either (tsk). You need to enable messaging as see the link isn’t below your name. Go onto your account and just enable it.

Hi, could someone please DM me the books that are being recommended? Thanks so much!

hi katecogs

how are u doing

can u please pm me

have some questions

u always helpful with them

thank u ahead of time babsyboo

babsyboo

There is no private messaging on this site at the moment, its been down some days now, so I can't message you.

Hi

so got a question or maybe more lol

yes the side is down so sad as it helped so many

my question is to u ☺ I been of Celexa now for 6 month ☺

but still get withdrawal symptoms some days more then other then none

is that normal in this 6 month period of time ?

I read it can take ur brain up to 6 or 9 or 1 year to get back to normal

also still some cry attacks from anxiety 😠 but much better then I was

is this all a normal thing . Anyone else on this side going though something similar as me ? Any help is appreciated, thank u . Please get back with me katecogs again thanks for all ur help in the past

Celexa has a half-life of about 35 hours, that means that it takes 35 hours for half of the drug to effectively leave your system, so it should be about one week for it to leave the body completely.

Side effects can last much longer but not sure about 9 months to a year.

What sort of symptoms are you getting? They may not be withdrawal but are anxiety symptoms again.

Hi

so we read it can take that long for some

the symptoms I still get is trimmers , foggy head , nausea , crying , intestine problem hurting and bathroom #2 also sinus headache and weird scary thoughts like ending up like this , not getting better , or its not going to stop , about old age and dieing and not ever becoming myself again .

Stuff like that , some days more then others or stronger then I get days much better again . So I'm on lorazapam 0.5mg as I need it given by my Dr . It's like 4 MG a day as needed . So I have like in the last 3 month good days were I only take 1.5 MG for the hole day and not much anxiety for like 4 days in a row and no crying then out of no where I have 4 to 5 days with all the cringe back and in need of more lorazapam like 2 MG to 3 MG a day and with symptoms. So what is ur thought on all this ? I really like to know as u have been so helpful to me so many times . Again thank u ahead of time for ur thoughts and help and time

hi again kate, still struggling with this first ever blip 8 1/2 weeks in on fluoxetine, its been going 9 days now just awful but i will push on through hope it eases off soon and i start to pick up again. just wondering if this is completely normal for it to last this long and is something you and others have experienced and gotten through the other side. i will continue for a while at 20mg just wondering how long after you would look at increasing. thanks

Its sounds more like typical symptoms of anxiety, not really withdrawal. I know you’ve felt like this on and off the meds.

They’re all symptoms of being sensitised - anxiety. Intrusive or negative thoughts are typical of this and something I suffered with.

Having a sensitised body means you over think and over feel everything to a heightened degree - and this constant inward focus is what causes brain-fog, depersonalisation / derealisation - it’s tiring to think inwardly all the time.

I’d still urge you to follow the links I sent as understanding anxiety is one of the best things when recovering (whether on meds or not).

Hi Nathan

Blips can last any length of time, days …. weeks ….. Yes it is normal. I know when I took meds I didn’t start feeling any little break throughs until about 3 months, and then it was brief.

For me I recovered on 20mg but it can take months before you feel any benefit.

It can be tough - but try and see it through.

I’d love to send you some links that will help but the private messaging has disappeared for now and they don’t allow links etc on the forum 😦

i will stick it out i know its a long process just horrible when being so well and dont want to go back to where i was,that was even worse hopefully the meds stop that happening. have you ever took propranolol through blips to help when needed ? also is there any other way to share the links ect they would be a help at the moment. i do find meditation can help refresh your mind sometimes, its always worse in the mornings and ease towards the evenings but that how it was when it started and just gradually cleared.

Just wrote the book author and site (no link) and post wasn't allowed......

Hi Nathan

It is horrible - I remember it so well.

No I never took anything else other than SSRI’s. Many years before I took them I did take Ativan a few times but they made me feel spaced out. Lots of people do take a short term meds to help take the edge off.

Mornings are always the worst time for anxiety sufferers but that doesn’t mean thats how the rest of your day will be - and that gloom does wear off.

Yes thats how it was for me too - my evenings started feeling easier and over the months I started feeling normal in the evenings, but each morning I’d wake feeling dreadful until the evening again. That easiness started spreading more into my day so it would start in the afternoon, then midday, then late morning - but each day I’d still wake full of dread, until one day I started waking feeling good too.

hi kate, thanks for sharing it really helps and no problems about the links youve tried. just hope to turn a corner soon and get back on track, before the blip i was feeling about 80 percent myself so think i over done it when i was feeling good not remembering where i was before it.also suffer with fatigue physically and mentally is this something that affected ypu and if theres anything that helped ?

Hi Nathan - yes sorry for not being able to pass on anything. Hopefully the private messaging will be back working soon (taking a long time) 😮

Yes feeling fatigued physically and mentally is quite common - its very tiring when your body is on heightened alert all the time, and also people don’t generally think constantly, thoughts flit in and out and there’s time when we switch off. When you have anxiety your mind will constantly be thinking of how you feel and think and you may be tensing up against anxiety too - and its both these thats so tiring.

When I had trouble sleeping I found taking a melatonin tablet was something that helped me when I kept waking up many times throughout the night. You can buy them over the counter - but always check with your doctor its ok. But I found getting a good nights sleep helped.

Also just try slowing yourself down - sometimes when people have anxiety they’ll rush about, not being able to settle at doing things, as if they’re trying to run from their feelings. Just take things easy with everything you do.

Also exercise helps - especially outside in the fresh air. Exercise helps burn off excess adrenaline and of course exercise makes you feel good too and could help with the fatigue (clearing the mind a little too).

These tips won’t get rid of anxiety of course, but it helps towards it as you wait for the meds to work.

katekogs can you please message me the link for the book?

Hi Deb - the private messaging has been unavailable for over a week now so I can't send you any links at the moment. As soon as its back up running I'll definitely send them to you.

K

Hi

yes it's right also was told it's from seritonen still moving around to find its place that can cause does things to happen

the low ,sad is anxiety and crying to I agree and also the thoughts

u think the nausea and shakes and yucky low energy feeling is anxiety 2

not seritonen ??? As I was told . Because of being on it for some time no matter the MG of Celexa it can cause does things to happen . Also was told it takes the brain a long time to balance back to were it was before the use of ant AD meds , what do u think . I was told it can take month like 6 or 9 or even a year for ur brain to completely balance out and back to normal . I have friends that are of the Celexa longer then me and still not back to were they have been before starting the meds. So continue to wait it out I guess ☺ not going back on it . Please share ur thoughts on this please katecogs, thank u

How long were you on the Celexa - how long have you been off them - and how long did you spend withdrawing?

Yes the nausea and shakes can be from anxiety, being on the meds or from withdrawal - and I remember you had these same symptoms too when you were on the meds. Do you feel they're different symptoms now?

I took Celexa (Citalopram) for 20 years then spent a year withdrawing - so it depends on how long you spend withdrawing and how much you reduced by each time. Teeny amounts over a long time and your body doesn’t miss it - big drops over a short time and your body will miss the meds and you’ll have bad withdrawal.

The Lorazepam can also produce those symptoms too - nausea, shakes, headache etc……

I mean, I'm not a medical person but just go on my long experience with these meds - what does your Doctor say about it?

Hi katecogs

sweet to hear back from you so fast thank you

well first question, I was on the Celexa this time around to help me with anxiety after having 3 maytore things done health wise to me 1 after the other 1 😠 so to answer the 1 questions 10 month and 2 weeks on 5 MG daily as my Dr sad to do to help the anxiety to go down or away ☺

so after 10 month and 2 weeks we got of Celexa not cutting the 5 MG in half or anything , just of . The Celexa in the 8th month being on me made me get worse , in the way I got higher anxiety after I had leveled out on it and I got worse withdrawal symptoms after that time . So was told at 10 month and 2 week to get of it as everything grew worth. I know this that once I take a lorazapam pill 0.5 MG most the symptoms go away . I'm on low dose my Dr told me , I used to take 4 MG in the 10 month and 2 weeks . I am now down to 2 or 3 MG if needed , most the time 2 or 1 and a half a day . Dr told me that's good and it's showing process of me getting better and that there will be a day I am of it all . What do u think ? I have good days with very low things happening to me so take then like 1 MG cut in half for hole day . That goes good for 3 or 4 days then I'm back to bad days were I need more like 2mg or 2nd a half and yes always cut in half to 0.5mg as I don't care for meds and very sencetive to them also . Dr not concerned about me being on lorazapam for over 3 years , they told me I had a no adictive personality . Well I guess my brain just has to get to were it needs to be I guess . Don't know what else to do or think . How about u katecogs alway look forward to ur inside and answers . Thank u

hi kate, is a blip something you come out of gradually like the first time or is it something that fades as quickly as it appears? mornings are still bad (13 days into a blip) but no were near as bad as when i started and my evenings are getting better. my appetite is missing until gone dinner times is something you also struggled with? also feel jittery again like i did with the side effects at the start. i manage to push through just find it hard when at work especially the morning

Hi Nathan - a blip can last any length of time and it can pass at any time too, slow or quick - attitude actually helps, not caring if it’s there or not (I know easier said than done). Expect mornings to be bad all the way through, don’t try and fight it, just let it be. That’s good your evenings are calmer - that’s how it worked for me.

Yes my appetite varied depending if I had a bad day or not. The worse I felt the less I could eat.

So the links that I can’t send are about acceptance. Acceptance means letting all feelings and thoughts come, let them be there, try not to pay them attention, don’t add on any head chatter and get on with your day as you would normally, taking the feelings with you.

When we have all these feelings we normally bombard ourselves with constant head chatter as we try and rid ourselves of them or fix them. This head chatter (racing mind) only reinforces anxiety, because we’re just reminding ourselves of it all the time. When we have a cold we don’t try and fix it, we know we’ll feel rough, have a headache, will ache, have a runny nose and a cough, so we accept that and get on with life. We don’t fret about the each symptom of a cold because we know they’re caused by the cold. Anxiety is no different - yet we spend all our day trying to escape from it. Your body is producing all these symptoms because your body has become sensitised, so anyone who becomes worried about a racing heart, palpitations, head fog and everything else, just makes it worse as this causes even more anxiety which keeps the cycle going.

Acceptance means doing the opposite and leaving it alone, because our body will actually heal itself over time if we step out of the way. Understanding that when you have anxiety it means your body is sensitised, and all the head chat and trying to fix ourselves just keeps us in the sensitised state. Leaving alone, however bad it feels, takes away the fuel you’re adding onto it all, and slowly your body will reverse this and desensitise, and over time all feelings will reduce in intensity, anxiety goes away along with intrusive thoughts.

Not easy to do I know, but you can try to apply this to the blip too.

Look anxiety and acceptance up online and it might take you to the sites I talk of.

hello,

grateful to this site for all this information. Am on 20mg cit for 4 weeks, and am suffering side effects such as extreme tiredness and brain fog and do not feel like myself at all.

would love to read the links from Katecogs on Anxiety.

Thank you!

hi kate, think im starting to come out of the other side of this blip finally. its been a long rough couple weeks but the tunnel is getting lighter finally, and my morning are easing also which helps a lot so hopefully i can kick on from here and keep improving and push out the other side of this blip. just a question to yourself is caffeine and alcohol something you stayed away from during recovery? thanks

Hi Jennifer

The first weeks / month can be a bit rough and those side effects are quite common. The brain fog is usually because we're so focused on ourselves, how we feel and think, that it consumes all our energy and gives us little time to think outwardly or have interest in other things. It will pass in time. I used to feel like I had my head in a goldfish bowl looking out at the world, but not being part of it. The medicine can make you feel tired - its helping to calm your nervous system down. This should pass in time too - I found getting lots of fresh air (walking), drinking lots of water and healthy food helped, and getting a good nights sleep if you can.

I can't send any links at the moment as the private messaging has been taken down at the moment, and they don't allow links on the forum. I'll send you something when messaging is back up running.

Hi Nathan

Thats good the blip is passing - they always do. Blips will keep happening though they should get less intense and shorter, though however long they last they will pass.

No I never refrained from caffeine or alcohol during recovery or the whole time I took the meds - I was on these for 20 years so would have been a long time without. It probably is a good idea though to watch your alcohol intake during the first few months and maybe just try a small amount if you want a drink. But I never had any adverse effects from caffeine or alcohol (we are all different mind).......

Hey Kate,

Hope you're doing well. I tried to reply to you a couple of weeks ago but the site went down.

Ive been having brighter days now but they can still be interspersed by these intrusive thoughts. I know this was your worst fear when you were ill and I seem to be the very same as you.

Some of the thoughts are quieter now and not as threatening and I can ignore them more, sometimes I forget them! but then I'll get one thought that can grab me and I feel sick for a while until it passes.

I was making a plan to go somewhere in the next few weeks and this ugly thought came out of nowhere and it felt like a kick in the gut. I felt sick with nerves(tho I wasn't) I've still continued to make my plan as by the time it comes around I could feel different and I'll never know if I felt better unless I try.

Did you still have days like this were you'd be feeling not too bad and some horrible thought would come across you and make you feel frightened again. You're right tho, it's not the thoughts it's the feelings they give off that can feel so believable. I know they're not true and I can now say it's only anxiety with most of them but then I get a new thought related to the one thats always forefront and it upsets me then makes me think that I'll never be free from them.

I am starting to recover in other ways. I'd say when I was first ill I was 1/10. Now I'd say I'm 6/10. My mood is certainly brighter and Im

watching TV a bit more and thinking of doing a phased return to work in a month if I continue to recover like this.

I just wish these thoughts would stop having such a suggestible feeling to them when they come over me. I can feel brilliant, full of plans then next minute I'm in tears.

I know Wills Method makes sense but some days it's really hard to switch off from them. I do keep myself active and busy enough but I cant lift a magazine or watch TV programmes that I used to love as the content fills me with fear, its totally bazaar as this would never have bothered me a year ago! It is completely unbelievable as I know none if the thoughts are true and yet the fear has me quaking. If they were standing in front if me Id punch them out of anger at stealing my life! Haha! Its like someone stealing your personal belongings and chucking them away without a care knowing you cant replace them. Thats what I feel about my life right now, completely robbed by some demon, just wish I could kick its backside out of my head 🙄 my family say it will but its all gonny take time and to trust the meds as they are doing their job but very slowly

Xx💕

Hi Cairns

Lovely to hear from you!

Yes its a pain with the messaging system going down - its it a few weeks now? Wonder why its taking so long to reinstate.

So glad to hear you’re having easier days - and yes, there will be times when an intrusive thought will jump out at you. The thoughts are a habit, and habits take time to break.

You know, all thoughts are all the same really - whatever the content, they are all just thoughts.

When you have that whoosh of fear that follows the thought just carry on with whatever you were doing before you had the thought / feeling. Let that feeling wash over you like a wave breaks on the shore - it will recede. Try paying little attention to it. Remember - all thoughts are the same, whatever the content.

Another different way you can deal with it is when that whoosh of fear comes, close your eyes and study the feeling. Let the feeling be there, don’t shy away from it. Where is it coming from - your stomach, chest? How does it feel - burning, hot? What is your body doing - is your heart beating fast, breathing rapidly? Let the feeling be there as you quietly ‘look’ at it and let it die away on its own. It will always build up but it will always die away too. This is facing the fear / the feeling and seeing it for what it is. Just a feeling.

Yes I had times like this too when I was recovering - old or new thoughts would leap out the woodwork at me, but I knew they’d go.

This is anxiety fighting back - it wants to hang on and shout at you that its important - but paying little attention to it it’ll get bored and go away. It won’t immediately and it’ll take repeated attempts for a while before the feeling and thought loses its hold on you.

You don’t really need to switch off from the thoughts but its more like allowing them to be there in the background, doing what they want, chatting away, whilst you just observe they’re there and you carry on with life. Its about not getting tangled in the chat with them. Picture it like you’ve a storm raging over your head and you just put up your umbrella, let the storm do what it wants whilst you carry on. The storm will eventually run out of steam.

I used to avoid the News when I wasn’t well as didn’t want to hear depressing topics that would alarm me. I did slowly start to tune back in though. You could do this - and if you find some content a bit uncomfortable, just let it be and carry on watching. Its just a feeling and you deal with each thought exactly the same as before.

Allowing ourselves to feel these feelings (without reacting) rewires our thinking, telling our body hey its ok, this isn’t dangerous.

But you’ll be able to watch programmes and read magazines, newspapers again in time - you won’t always have these intense feelings. Your body is slowly desensitising and feelings and thoughts are returning to normal.

Yes that - exactly!! It is like someone has stolen something from you - I felt like my soul had been taken and my life changed beyond recognition.

Remember this demon is only your body being super sensitised, born from stress or trauma. Its on high alert and every feeling and thought is super heightened - your nerves are on edge, jagged, reacting to everything. The fear of this and our constant head chatter (as we try and escape) then keeps us in this sensitised state, and our fight to get out of it makes us more anxious.

As one of the books says - you actually have nothing to do - leave it alone 😉

Yes your family is absolutely right - it will go and it will take time. Each month that passes will be easier.

K xx 🥰

Hey @nathan291

In response to propranolol, I was prescribed 10mg which I can take 3 times a day if and when I feel the need. Ive only taken them on really bad days as theyre not addictive. Once you start having calmer days or busy moments in your days you dont really feel the need for them. I find they calm the nerves in my stomach which then calms me overall but Ive only ever needed 10mg in one bad day and no more. They dont calm my thoughts but through being calmer helps me deal with my thoughts a bit better.

They make me tired the day after as I suppose they calm the blood pressure down hence why we feel more yawny and tired.

I like having them there as they are a nice crutch for me knowing theyll help to calm me slightly if I feel the need.

Everyone is different at handling certain meds but I know a lot of people who take Propranolol (beta blockers) for sitting driving tests, exams, job interviews etc.

I just wanted to share it with you to help you but always discuss it with your GP first as theyll need to know your BP is ok... hope your seeing some light now in your day 😊

hi kate, yeh its slowly passing dont get me wrong its still there and it hasn't totally gone but its more manageable and at times i forget about it. this was must worse a couple of weeks ago when this blips first started but if it stays like this till recovery then id be happy just taking the ride slowly.

Hi Kate,

You really are an angel. Thank you for your encouragement and support. This forum has been a lifesaver.

Jennifer 😃

hi katecogs

what do u think

I been waiting to hear back from u

hope u have some time soon to do so

miss you and like to hear ur thought on what I wrote to u

or better asked u ☺ thanks ahead of time

have a blessed weekend

Yes the recovery journey is full of blips and as each one passes though you'll feel better but not recovered. Yes forgetting about it at times what happened with me - it just happens naturally. Over time you should start forgetting about it more.

Aww thanks Jennifer ❤ 😃

Hi babsyboo

Sorry I thought I had written back - its hard to keep tabs on what's written now without private messaging.

@KateCogs

Hey Kate, Thanks for replying to me, its always good to hear from you. You always give me a lift 🤗 Ive had a lot of family Birthdays this last week or Id have replied sooner.

Your reply to Nathan... This is exactly how Ive felt last couple of days. Suddenly felt better, forgot about it on and off Saturday, Sunday then it washed over me again today. Your ab right tho, I could feel better and then have a blip but I know Im not recovered yet, but boy it hurts like hell when you have a few moments, hours or days feeling calmer and brighter then it suddenly washes over you again.

You said your brighter days started to carry into evenings and then this continued until recovery came. I feel Im quite anxious most evenings as when I go to put my feet up and chill, I suddenly feel tense as thats when my thoughts start. Youre right tho Kate no matter where you go you take them with you but I have to pat myself on the back as I managed to go to places this last week that I couldn't have gone to 2 months ago! I didnt feel great and I was slightly anxious but I done it...hip hip! 😄 I always know now that whenever I feel Ive went a bit more forward in recovery its the next day I have a blip, I suppose thats the 5 steps forward 4 back.

When you say that you felt recovery happening around 3/4 months , in what way did you mean, as when I first took not well, I was terrified and felt so anxious but I still got up and showered as I was too scared lying in my bed that Id go under, I ate breakfast and went out a walk as it gave me a better feeling, it never took my thoughts away but the fresh air cleared my head a bit,I cdnt go anywhere tho on my own and I still feel certain places I still cant go to on my own to yet as I can still feel detached. Hopefully that'll come as recovery happens. My family say I dont give myself enough credit as I underestimate how strong I am. I dont see it but they do, tho is this what you mean by not noticing our recovery until we are recovered. Its so slow we just dont notice it happening.

Anyway I hope you are well Kate, thanks always 💕

hi cairns, how long have you been on your journey now if you dont mind me asking? and what meds?

this is my first time ever dealing with this and taking meds but its been a bumpy ride and still a long way to go but have most definitely seen improvement just these blips are backwards but i think like kate said they do get less and more esay to manage. my first one last 2 weeks and it was horrible but it did ease although you dont think it will, its still there its not gone yet but i feel its just there at times and manageable and then i forget it for a while. hopefully in time the next few months as i recover i forget it all together and im then recovered

Hope the birthday celebrations went well 🤗

Yes that ‘forgetting about it’ is recovery. This is how recovery creeps up on you without you realising it. The first time this happened to me I was at a dance class and at the end of the evening it dawned on me I hadn’t thought about ‘it’ the whole time I was there - I’d just got involved with what I was doing without realising it - it was such a great feeling. And yes, the doom, gloom and old feelings and thoughts will be there the next day because it’s habit, so just try and accept this and don’t strive for that forgetful time again because it will come back.

Yes I started having brighter periods in the evenings - but it doesn’t work like that for everyone. Your brighter times may come at a different time. Often when you sit down and aren’t busy doing things, sometimes that stillness and quietness makes your body aware of itself and you tune into it. That doesn’t mean you need to be busy all the time, but try and just accept ok this is what my body wants to do, and just let it be tense and let those those thoughts run rife in the background - but don’t get entangled with them (getting into a head with them).

When those thoughts come along with the whoosh of anxiety, just let it sweep over you and try not to pay it attention (or rather don’t add in that head chatter) as its the entanglement that keeps us locked into it. Leave it alone, let it do what it wants and try and carry on. This approach is hard and it does take time, but you’re building new neural pathways your body and mind will follow, rather than the old fearful ones.

Thats so good you’re able to visit places more now - such progress! Usually the places you had difficulties with are often where you had panic, fear and anxiety and so your mind then associates those places with these feelings. As the books say, why is one place (ie supermaket) any different to the one you can go in? Its not the place itself, its the memory of how you felt in one. It also says to go to these places, let those feelings happen (detachment too), don’t add anymore head chatter into the mix, stay put as they will pass, carry on and then leave calmly when you’ve finished shopping etc. Again doing this you’re building new neural pathways that will replace the old ones.

People who have anxiety do their utmost to avoid it which causes more intense feelings - but confronting it with acceptance and understanding it will in time quieten and eventually stop. Very hard I know 😉

But you’re doing well - small steps all the way - and yes, often you’ll feel a bit worse the day or so after because that old memory reminds you of how it feels. Let is all happen, don’t be impressed by it.

When recovery started happening for me, I felt anxiety free briefly to start with - my head felt free and not bound with ‘it’, my body relaxed and the anxiety had gone - it was as if someone had switched the lights on. It crept up gradually and by the evening I’d start to feel like this. Didn’t happen every day at first, but the more it happened thats when I started to realise I was recovering.

That’s right, when you’ve got anxiety you take all those feelings and thoughts with you at first - get on with life, understand how anxiety works from those books, don’t add in any head chatter, try not to care about how you feel (big task), and slowly things begin to change. Its all about our reaction to the feelings that counts.

People often start out like this with enthusiasm, but will still keep looking for relief. Doing the above is not meant to give you relief, but its about changing your attitude towards anxiety, building new neural pathways, that will eventually bring about the relief we all so desparately crave. Trying to rid ourselves of it, looking for relief and an instant cure just reinforces it and makes it worse. We have to do the opposite.

Of course the SSRI medicine will do all this for us and brings about the same results - but helping yourself too (book method) helps it along better and teaches you how to do it so one day if you’re not on meds, that understanding will always stand by you if ever you need it.

Of course you don’t see your recovery as your family does, because you’re still seeing it through ‘anxiety eyes’. You’re still a little cautious and fearful whereas they see it from a different angle.

Exactly, recovery really is slow - much slower than anyone realises. Afterall you can’t rush a good thing 😉 xx

@katecogs

Aaaw Kate, you were def meant to be on this earth helping people as you are a great inspiration to everyone, myself included who are going through this.

Thank you, It was my Sister's 60th Birthday. We had a garden party for her and I organised her buffet lunch. It was also my Daughter's Birthday 2 days later and I organised a family meal for her too.

Today I was out walking and catching up with my friend and having lunch with her. All of this has helped me to progress as I noticed it was the first time I didn't think of my thoughts and anxiety.

I do feel at times naturally calmer. I'm watching TV a little bit more, not a lot but a wee bit more. There are a lot of things I'm still greatly anxious about doing and places I'm still anxious about going to but I know I will eventually. I can see the way this is going now and I'm starting to think outside of my head a bit more too.

When I feel the thoughts creeping back in wether subtle or stormy I just put up my umbrella like to catch a little drizzle of rain or a heavy downpour ( I liked when you said that) haha! It's not easy but it's a good way of looking at it!

I spoke to my Dr yesterday and she still thinks I'm good on 10mg and that if I up to 15 or 20mg now I'm only gonny upset myself with side effects again as Ive came this long now.

I still feel my reaction to certain things can be quite detached but I understand that's the Depersonalisation and that too will get better as my feelings and hormones fall back into place again. I said to my Mum last night that when Im better I won't forget what I've went through and she said "Maybe you won't but you won't fear it the same way, as it will have lost its impact" That's the way I look upon it when I was ill 20yrs ago. I look upon it as tho it was different and not as bad but it was Kate, it was brutal then as it is now but that feeling from 20 yrs ago has lost its impact now so I pray this will lose it the same way.

Yes the book does give us a great insight and understanding into Anxiety and that we're not alone in our suffering. I do feel the meds have helped greatly too but the book does help us to try and overcome it by giving us confidence to not fear our fears and to not feel a failure if we don't feel better on first attempts at facing our challenges. It's like being back to being a child and learning to walk again.

Thanks again Kate, hope your Son is well too,

Take Care 🥰xx

@nathan291

Hi Nathan,

I don't mind sharing with you at all as long as it helps you. I text you on the forum about the Propranolol last week. I don't know if you seen it.

I'm sorry I've written you a novel 🥴

I've been on 10mg Citalopram for 16 wks now. I've never increased my dosage as the Dr thought I was doing ok on the low doze to which I agree.

I went through this 20 yrs ago Nathan brought on by stress after a major operation , same symptoms as now only different intrusive thoughts as what I have now. Back then I tried a few anti depressants and the best one then for me was Mirtazapine, but due to my hormones being so low I had to also go onto HRT as well. A few year later as I recovered I was gradually taken off all medication.

Fifteen yrs later, two yrs ago I experienced another stressful situation in my life and I cdn't believe this has all came back.

My Dr put me on Citalopram 10mg as I had tried Sertraline and it didn't agree with me.

Kate is so right you have got to give the meds a chance to get into your system. Drs will say it takes 6/8 wks, tho I feel that depends on the severity of your illness, I do know that if your anxiety is really severe that it will and can take many months for your system and nerves to settle and for recovery to happen.

In the beginning I had the deepest darkest thoughts and I cried constantly. I kept thinking I'd never be well, and that this is what I'd become.

I then discovered Kate on this forum and I cdn't believe when she described her journey through this illness and her recovery that it was very much like I'm going through. She's ab brilliant in the way she explains everything. My Mother went through exactly the same many years ago so I was lucky she was able to tell me I wasn't going insane and that I would get better and become a stronger person than what I was. Still, it was great to hear of someone else that understood me too and I found that in Kate.

Through your recovery Nathan you will have setbacks, this is natural and all part of it.

Kate is so right when she says sometimes your setback can last an hour, sometimes a day a week or 2 or more but you will be stronger every time you move forward again. It's so slow in the beginning, it's torture infact and then graadually you'll start to feel a bit lighter, little things you dreaded doing will become easier.

I have still a long way to go but when I see how I've came on in the last 2 wks it helps me to see that in another few months I could be a lot better than now hopefully. I still have days where I can sit and cry which does help release stress, I had a little cry two nights ago as I had a wee blip but it didn't carry on over to yesterday, I've been out with my friend for lunch and walking yesterday so it's all ups n downs, tho I have become a lot brighter and I can think out of my head now. My thoughts arent as frightening anymore and becoming fewer now.

I don't know if you know of the board game snakes n ladders. That's what I call my recovery haha! I meant to tell Kate that as I know she'll laugh at that. Haha!

Remember as Kate says it will take time and if you can accept that then you'll recover properly. Just know tho that your not alone. Thousands go through this.

hi cairns, thanks for sharing it always helps listening to someone else who is going through this and how they have dealt with bump on the way. I completely feel relevant to you and your story as well as kates its all to familiar and how it starts and the journey through. ups and downs is the best description of it and each time it does feel it gets better but the procyis slow thats true ha. have you ever tried ashwagandha to try help at any point heard this is good for a few things?

hi at katecogs

i was on celexa for the past two years but stopped my medication cold turkey back in jan 2021. i felt great but then started spiraling back into depression and anxiety two months later. this is my second week on citalopram (celexa) 20mg and im going to keep this dose for months to see if it works for me. i do feel that morning anxiety and dread everyday and its hard for me to get to work. my doctor prescribed my hydroxyzine in the morning for the anxiety but im scared itll make me drowsy. im just trying to stay positive during this hard time, your posts have really encouraged me.

@Nathan291

Hey Nathan,

Yeah I felt the very same symptoms when I fell ill both times. The worst is the intrusive thoughts, they can have me quaking in my boots and then they can be so bazaaar . Kate described the feeling of them perfectly, she said they'd crush the strongest man in the world...so true! I have great support from family and friends but it's good to hear from people on this forum that have experienced the same. No matter how we got here we still go through the same journey back to recovery. Its just horrible as it feels as though it robs you of your confidence, evtheeryday life, hobbies, energy, enthusiasm. I wish it would go away as quick as it came. It takes so long. I did learn from yrs ago tho Nathan, you will come back to being your full person again and then it will lose its impact on you. I can say that and Im not even in full recovery yet!

Right now You wont feel like yourself at all because part of your brain has became so desensitized as it shuts off to protect you from the anxiety. Once you start to feel better then the brain will become more sensitised to your normal thoughts again and you'll start to think outside of your head again but all this takes time. I'm still having setbacks where I just want to cry all day but as Kate says it releases stress and we need these setbacks as it helps us to move forward in the long run. I know it's all anxiety and it's not the real me but I still can't seem to shake it off any faster.

No I haven't tried Ashwaghanda, it does sound good but I don't know if it would interfere with my anti depressants.

Are you sleeping at nights Nathan? How have you been last two days?....

hi cairns, yes im managing to sleep thats never been an issue for me and the thoughts and anxiety over nothing are the worst like im on over drive all the time but i do feel much better. i had a bad blip a few weeks ago which lasted two weeks but seems to of eased. it not totally gone its feels like its there all the time still but as if im able to manage it better then when busy i forget it its weird, but recovery is going to be a bit weird and bumpy. how long did it take you to recover first time ? how have you been recently

Hi Melissa

You should never stop these type of meds cold turkey as you can end up in a mess with awful withdrawl symptoms and often the return of anxiety.

Returning to meds will help but it can take many months before you start to feel the benefit. Anxiety and gloom is always worse in the mornings - its best to try and accept this is how it will be for now, and generally it will ease throughout the day. Try and get on with your day, take those feelings with you, don’t analyse it, leave it alone and carry on. It will be tough for a while yet but it does get easier.

Feeling drowsy isn’t so bad - it just means your body will be a little more relaxed and your will be able to heal a little.

K 😉

@katecogs

Hey Kate

Just wanted to say Ive replied to you, its hard to stay up to date with replies on this. Wish theyd update their private message page.

Hope you are well

xx😊

Hi Cairns

Aww thanks so much - and there’s me thinking I was sent to this earth only as a crazy cat mum, wanting to adopt every cat I see lol 🤣

Yes its so difficult trying to see who’s posted as tags don’t work. I mailed the site asking about the private messaging and they said it will be back, but not yet as they have issues with it, and they’re looking into implementing tagging in posts too. All good.

How lovely - bet your sister really enjoyed that - was it a surprise? I love a good garden party - hopefully you ordered the good weather in too (considering the rain at the mo). Its our daughters 30th this year and also thinking of having a family garden party for her. My sister had a ‘gin’ garden party a few years ago for her 60th - I vaguely remember my son driving me home later after I’d had more than one too many 😮

Its great when you start noticing you begin to forget about anxiety and thoughts. This happens without us trying to force it away, and it should happen more and more.

Yes thinking outside your head is such a relief instead of being bound within our thoughts. Again this happens naturally without forcing it. Its such a gradual process.

Yes usually increasing does cause heightened symptoms, but if you ever want to then talk with your doctor about tryint go increase by 5mg increments.

Yes lots of symptoms will hang around as we recover, and I found mine went bit by bit, not all together. Every symptom is caused by anxiety and our body being sensitised, and as we recover the symptoms and our reactions slowly return to normal.

Yes your mum is right - you don’t forget what’s happened but you certainly won’t be dwelling on it every day. It’ll be in the background and you’ll probably think of it from time to time and it won’t have the impact at all as it once did. My old intrusive thoughts don’t bother me at all now when once I was practically dragging myself off the floor every day.

Being sensitised means your body and nerves are on constant high alert, your body is producing physical symptoms, thoughts become weird and our mind races all the time. All the physical and mental symptoms are scary and we try and control these so stop being scared, but all this does is made them worse. Because our body is anxious then our thoughts will be anxious too. When your body desensitised and returns to normal, then all these symptoms calm down and we stop being frightened of them. Again because our body is now calm then our thoughts will be calm.

The meds and the books are brilliant at helping to recover from anxiety and yes, good to learn we’re not alone in this and certainly won’t be the last to have this either. Yes it is like learning to walk isn’t it.

K 😃 x

@nathan291

Hey Nathan

When I was ill the first time, the first 6 months were awful! I didn't know what had happened to me. I lost all sense of everything, I was completely detached from my world, my life, my family, my friends, my job, everything that was so important to me, I felt I lost it all as I couldn't feel anything, I had no emotions, only emotions of fear, intrusive thoughts, panic, loss and dread. Anything horrible I felt it but I couldn't feel anything nice at all. I felt I was looking through a window watching my whole life but I couldn't reach anyone or anything, I felt a demon had jumped inside me and robbed my soul, telling me how to think and feel, it was horrific to say the least!

I was constantly pacing and phoning my Drs crying. I then spoke to a therapist and she said it was severe depression brought on by my operation I'd had, now they call it PTSD or due to the early menopause I was going through. After several attempts on Anti Depressants it was Mirtazapine that eventually helped kick start my recovery. I still had moments days and weeks where I had blips/ setbacks, some lasted for days/weeks others were momentarily. It was so gradual that in the beginning I remember saying to my husband that I'd never go out again or be able to go into company again then 10 months later I was back at work and going on short holidays and going out socializing.

Recovery just gradually started happening, it just trickled so slowly back that I wasn't aware of being myself again. I had stopped thinking about it. From then onwards my life progressed. We moved to a new house, new job, life was there again for me. It's not that my life had gone, I had become lost for a while thru my illness, and I had come back thru recovery.

That's why I cant believe that I've relapsed 20 yrs later. Another stressful situation and a depletion in my hormones has brought it all back. Maybe had I not stopped my meds a few yrs ago I might still have been ok but it is what it is and they do say people who have had depression in a time lapse of 20yrs can relapse one more time later in life again again. You'd think Id know how to cure it having gone thru it before but it just doesnt work like that as each relapse needs its own individual healing therapy.

As I said to you tho it doesn't matter what brings it on we all recover the same way, some quicker than others as we are all different.

I am sleeping better due to the meds and I do still wake with an anxious feeling in my stomach but that doesn't determine my day ahead as it can settle down and I then feel ok. My family say it's def not as severe as the last time, but I'm not sure if I'm just aware of it this time round tho, I am going through the very same symptoms only different intrusive thoughts. I do recognise it as an illness but when I have a setback I feel so negative and never feel there's a way out of it as it's so painful!

Yes your ab right! I can be feeling ok and Im busy doing stuff and I don't seem to think about it even tho I know it's still lingering in the background then I sit down to relax with a cuppa and it starts up again but Kate says that's habit but that'll eventually stop as well...so true!..It's up, down, up, down, but as my hubby says the ups will come more frequent than the downs and now when I look back to Jan, I see I have progressed a lot, some days I'm stronger and brighter, other days I'm weaker and I like my hubby or family with me if I'm going out to take my mind off it. Other days I can go out myself no probs.

Last few days I've had a rotten setback this seems to happen when I've progressed again, ( if you think of physio on a Broken leg, no pain no gain) I've had hrs of tears and fears but I've carried on regardless, it's def not easy but the wee voice in my conscience tells me to keep going so that must be the recovery in me to keep fighting it plus my hubby and my family are amazing too at helping me. Never keep it to yourself Nathan, talk about it, cry it out, just let it out as it helps relieve the stress and calms the nevous system down slightly.

You will get better. I said to my Mum "why is it when I think of my illness from 20 yrs ago it doesn't worry me now" she replied " and when you think of this relapse in a few yrs again, this won't bother you either, as it will have lost its impact, and that's recovery!"

I hope my experience can help you to understand that your def not alone in what your going thru.

xx😊

@katecogs

Hey Kate, (Catwoman) 😉😂

Always lovely to speak to you 😊

I'm laughing with you, I pictured you being carried out your sisters garden party with a bottle o gin in hand 🥴😂😂😂

That happened to me a few years ago when I was cutting a clients hair in her house. She asked me to taste her homemade wine. A few hrs later her husband had to carry me from his car to my front door. I still cant remember my hubby putting me to bed 🥴😂😂😂

My Sister and Daughter both had lovely Birthdays thank you. My Sister knew it was happening as it was at her house, we were actually very lucky with the weather. Even today it's sunny and dry. My Sister was delighted with my buffet and very surprised to the extent I went to as she knows how ill I've been. You'd never have known tho, as I was the one on the Karaoke with a glass of champers in hand 🎤🍸😂😂

My Mum said the loudest one in the room can sometimes be the one that's crying so hard inside...in my case very true! Tho I wasn't too bad, not great but not bad either.

Aaaw I hope your Daughter has a lovely 30th Birthday, nice to just to be able to be together again with friends and family. Esp when theres a little refreshment involved 😉😃 Is she having many if lockdown is still lifted? Friends not refreshments haha!

Yeah it's wonderful having moments or a day when we don't think about our thoughts. It's so liberating! I think setbacks are worse after I've been feeling quite good, because you just end up full of doubt and fears again. Then the crying comes which tends to leave me feeling drained, depressed, frightened but the next day like today I'm chillaxing but pottering around the house. I was going to go out for dinner but tbh if it was a normal day today Id still feel tired so my hubby and I will do lunch tomorrow somewhere nice instead, I shall carry on regardless.I said to my Hubby " no doubt my thoughts will want to tag alongside me but they will need to social distance from me"...if only I could do that, I'd leave them there in the restaurant 😂😂

I was saying to Nathan on here that recovery is like going for physio to help heal a broken leg, you still have pain through the healing process. That's the way I see my blips/setbacks.

I also think of this when I look back 20 yrs ago when I was first ill with anxiety/depression. I did take a good 10 MTHS first time round before I felt confident in myself again and the thoughts weren't there as much and from then on they became less and less.

So I look upon my relapse now as breaking the same leg again. It's always going to be more fragile and longer to heal 2nd time around. I was lucky to have my Mum who had gone thru the same as myself but I didn't read books then on it to understand what was happening, I only had meds, prayers, time and patience...a lot of patience but I got thru it, I can only pray I will again, just seems different this time. Mum said it's only different because the last one has lost its impact now and this relapse has taken over...again so true!

Last 2 days I've felt I've had to drag my legs like you said to go out. I feel this setback has made me feel that weary and very nervy, it's taking my confidence from me. I can only hope it shall lift. I feel when I've moved forward a good bit my setbacks seem to be worse after that.

I can understand people now who become recluses due to their illness. I've never been like that...only first couple of weeks of becoming ill, but after that I made myself get up and fight it. I think I've just became so tired of it, I told my hubby I'm fed up being ill now, I want to be free of this. There's certain things the books cant help us with ( as much as they help us to understand what's going on and to change our mindset towards anxiety)along with that I think it's time and an incredible amount of patience that changes our attitude to healing from this. I went through every emotion the last time I was ill before I started to heal and recover but along the way I would have a wee blip but they were short-lived.

My family think I'm way more ahead in my recovery than last time, I think it's just shaken me up so badly Kate that after all these yrs it came back and with such gusto, it's the thoughts have taken the wind out my sails, different ones but still as forceful. I do carry on with my day, just wish I could find the keys to these Goddamn chains that are around head and ankles tho haha!

Im not sure about increasing my doze Kate as Im confused, if upping our doze doesnt help you get better any quicker then why are we not all on the same doze, what are the different dozes for? Do some people need a higher doze for the serotonin? Will I still recover on 10mg ? Is it better in the long run to be on a low doze? My Dr seems to think Im ok on 10mg, she says higher doze is for severe depression and severe intrusive thoughts. I thought I was in that bracket but she seems to think Im mild to moderate as she has dealt with loads of patients who are going through it like myself.

Anyway the sun is out here today Kate and I'm doggy sitting today, great way to get out walking, so lunch shall be Alfresco unless I find a dog friendly restaurant we can sit inside if the rain doesn't hold up.

I hope you have a lovely day and the sun shines on you too ☀️🥰xx

hi cairns, how long were you on meds first time and how long were you off them feeling your normal self again? as i dont want to plan to be on these for ever ha just until im fully recovered

Sorry to jump on this post but I'd really like Katekogs opinion/support please. I have been on Citalopram since 2009 on various levels. I have been on 20mg in the last few years. In January I suffered extreme anxiety again. After a month, on 9th Feb my Dr upped my dose to 30mg because I was loosing so much weight. I was nauseous, coming over in waves of anxiety, restless etc.I felt a bit better after 3 weeks but then had a blip, back to square one. Dr then put me on 40mg on March 2nd. It has been nearly 11 weeks on that now. I have a couple of good days then I have a couple of weeks bad. I basically want reassuring that there is still time for it to work fully. I know you've advised 3 months before now, is that from starting Citalopram or the last increase though? Do blips really feel like you back at the beginning?!

D. x

@nathan291

Hi Nathan, I was on my meds for around 10 years first time I was ill as although I had recovered many years before that I was advised to stay on them as they were doing me no harm. To me it was like taking an aspirin for a headache. I came off them as I was looking after my mother and I kept forgetting to take them and I still felt ok so I decided to very slowly came off them but they were reduced over a year before I was completely med free.

I was completely well for 15 yrs until I became unwell in Jan of this year.

Ive only been taking the meds again for under 5 months. It doesnt bother me taking them at all and if I have to take them for life then I will.

We are all different Nathan but I wdnt be too desperate to be off them as some people can think they're better cos theyve had a good couple of days or weeks then they can relapse coming off them too soon and then you have to go back to the beginning again. Side effects etc. Sometimes the meds can take longer 2nd time around. Try and relax, give them time to do their job, its not easy I know as we all just want a quick fix, but stopping them too soon wont help you in the long run...trust me. If you werent on them you'd prob realise how much theyre helping you.

Thousands of people take meds for all different reasons, we're just like them 😊

@KateCogs

Hey Kate I so wish they would update their private chats. Ive replied to you above but I wanted to add on ...

Im starting to go further in my days like meeting friends ( not to do with lockdown lifting) going to other places etc but Im still very nervy and anxious when I'm do, it feels more like a chore instead of an enjoyment. Sometimes I feel good when I come home and other times Im worn out, mentally exhausted and upset because doing this would normally be nothing to me and now its 'can I do this' I then think is this me forever now?

My hubby says its just because Im aware of stepping outside my comfort zone which is true. I remember this from yrs ago when I was ill. I kept thinking then and I still do that Im going around in circles and not going forward. He says your circle is becoming wider which is probably true. Im just frightened, but Im doing it and Im ignoring my thoughts as I know its only anxiety doing this when theyre there but it is exhausting.

Im sleeping no probs but my dreams can be so crazy and frightening that I awake in the morning feeling upset and anxious. It doesnt determine my day ahead but I keep thinking theyre trying to tell me this is me forever! Did you experience crazy dreams Kate?

I know dreams are bazaar as well as thoughts can be and Im not gonny analyse it as itll only add more anxiety. I feel its insane enough without adding more fuel to the fire!

Oh Kate, oooh to feel normally happy again and moaning about mundane things would be wonderful

xx🥰

Hi

Katecogs

questions u still have the long thing of explaining how the Celexa works on are serotonin and why we feel the way we feel when on the AD med ND so on ???? If so u mind putting it on this sise as it helped me a lot and still does

thank u so much

hi cairns, hope you are well! im doing a lot better recently still up and down but feel the days are getting better. just a question for yourself and your recover journey but did you ever struggle or felt that caffeine and alcohol made the symptoms and anxiety worse or no difference

@Nathan291

Hey Nathan,

Im so glad your feeling better, its great when you get that feeling😊

Unfortunately, Ive had a bad setback! I tried to increase my meds by an extra 5mg and after 4 days I was shocked to how ill I felt! Uncontrollable crying, anxiety and thoughts went through the roof! I couldnt cope so I dropped back down to 10mg. I was stupid tho as I only increased because I thought I should be on a higher doze like most people are 🙄

Im starting to calm a bit now, been to have my haircut today. Im still going about my daily duties, just wish I could take my anxiety chains off!😒

Sorry Nathan, It does say on the leaflet you can consume alcohol but to also use your logic and not to overdo it which makes perfect sense obviously. I only started having a drink again around a month ago as I didn't feel like one when I was so unwell plus I was terrified it would enhance my anxious symptoms.

I started out having a low alcohol wine or beer to test myself which I found was ok and I had no side effects. Then a few weeks later I had a few Bacardi s and I was ab fine. Everyone is different Nathan, I think if you have a drink in moderation and only if youre feeling ok then have one or two as this is also a sign of feeling better because if you were so low then the thought of enjoying a drink would be slim and it would only aggravate your symptoms and cause you to feel more depressed. Alcohol can be a depressant in normal times so imagine how its gonny make you feel if youre having a bad day with anxiety. Just try baby steps and youll know yourself if it agrees with you or not. I find with me that wine makes me feel a bit heavy whereas Bacardi and coke is actually no probs with me.

I drink all types of tea and Im ok apart from green tea at the moment as it gives me more energy and I dont need that right now due to my anxiety. I only drink one or two cups of decaf coffee a day, strange as they all have caffeine but normal coffee is a no go with me esp from coffee shops as its pure beans.

You know yourself in normal days if youre feeling good then your body and mind will be able to cope with a few drinks but if youre feeling down or anxious its only going to add to that feeling during or after or both! So its the same when recovering from mental health illness, we just have to be a bit more sensible,

Salut 😊🍷🍻

hi cairns, oh sorry to hear youve had a set back at least you know this is down to meds increase and hopefully now your body will start to settle back to wear you were, its a horrible feeling i know but you wil defo get through it like before. i did manage quite a few drinks and have felt pretty good tbh just sticking to decafe coffee at the moment as normal coffee got me on a good day haha but we are all different. hopefully you are starting to pick up a little

Hi Deb

Did you feel fully recovered on the meds before the anxiety flared in January?

Anxiety is usually the result of stress so I’m guessing that maybe you’ve had some extreme stress in your life leading up to January?

Increasing meds will often give you blips again and this is the meds settling down. Its not always the more the better, but what dose suits you.

When you get stressed this means your body can be on heightened alert and if you feel any anxiety during that time its quite easy to slip back into it as you’re reminded of past suffering. When the anxiety flares we then start to have that inner dialogue with ourselves and try to stop the feelings, fathom out why etc etc and this makes everything worse. Understanding that ok, anxiety may has spiked during the stressful time, and thats quite normal as its excess adrenaline looking for an escape route. Leave it alone (inner dialogue etc) and it should calm down and disappear. Lowering stress levels helps too.

Being on the increased dose should help you, though it may take some time. I don’t think it would take as long as it does from the very beginning though.

Blips can feel like you’re back at the beginning, but that doesn’t mean you are. Its just how we see them. After a period of feeling well and calm, when a blip spikes we automatically think ‘it’ has returned and it can feel awful. Blips shouldn’t be seen as stumbling blocks though, but instead seen as progress as it seems we can’t recover without them.

Hi Cairns

Sorry I’m behind with the messages - yes really hard to keep on top of them on the forum compared to the private messaging.

Hehe - yes that’s def me, Catwoman!! 😺🐱

Yes I was led out from my sisters party worse for wear - and the worst thing was I was going out for dinner in the evening too which I managed, but I didn’t enjoy it 😦

Oh that’s brilliant, cutting hair with wine!!! Hope you finished the haircut before the memory failed haha 🤣

You were lucky with the weather for the garden party - I think doctors should prescribe karaoke and champers! lol

Yes thats often true re the loudest in the room could be the one suffering inside. That’s also true for a lot of comedians too - you often read how they suffer from personal conflict, yet on the outside they’re funny and outgoing. I certainly hid my condition for over 20 years from people.

Setbacks do hit you hard when you’ve had a period of feeling good - it feels so disappointing to have those old feelings emerge again when you think you’ve got past that hurdle. Setbacks are a sign of recovery though and we should embrace them, let them come, let them just be there as they will go. Perhaps we should thank them and say ok, you’re back to help me on my way again, lets do this.

Yes when I was ill I often wished I could have left my thoughts and feelings on holiday and come back without them, but they came everywhere with me.

Yes recovery is like having a broken leg. You put a splint on the leg (our medication) but the leg will still be painful and we have to wait for the healing process to work. Then comes getting back on our feet and having physio to get the muscles and tendons working again. Its the same with our meds, we take them and then have to wait for the pain to slowly calm down. Also when we have a broken leg we don’t keep hitting hit, aggravating it, making it hurt and delaying recovery - which is what we do with anxiety. We will keep getting entangled with it all with all the why, what if’s, and wishing it would go, so if we left it alone, trusted in the meds and the natural recovery too, stopped getting into the head chat with it which just drags up emotions and pain, then slowly the anxiety will be left alone to heal. This is what the books talk about really.

Yes when you relapse back into anxiety you can end up with a different set of symptoms, different intrusive thoughts - and they can feel just as bad, sometimes worse than before. They’re obviously not worse, just our interpretation of them.

Anxiety is very tiring - its draining on the body to have adrenaline pumping through the body all the time keeping you on high alert.

I got fed up with being ill too - and yes there are certain things the books can’t help with. It can’t take away the feelings you have - that comes when you work through it. They can explain it all, show you the way, then its up to you to put it into practice which can feel quite daunting. But we can do this - we all can.

It can shake you up when anxiety comes back, but when you’re over all this you’ll look and think how short a time it was and that it wasn’t as bad as you thought. Again its that mindset - once you’re out of it you look at anxiety in a different light.

People do recover on 10mg - though I wouldn’t say a higher dose is for severe depression etc as different doses suit different people. I’d carry on as you are - you’re doing well. You can of course keep in mind about increasing one day if you absolutely feel you need to - and your doctor should go with your wishes.

Sounds really great you’re getting out further and meeting friends and going places. Remember even if you feel nervy and anxious, then let it. Take the anxiety with you to lunch and let it do what it wants (don’t give it any wine though) lol. Just keep the wine for you.

No this is not you forever - again its that negative voice creeping in. We can all recover fully. Yes you forget what it was like before and you’ll think differently when you’re better.

Yes dreams can be bizarre - your mind doesn’t rest during sleep so its only disjointed thoughts playing around, doing their thing. Yes I get weird dreams still - sometimes I’ve woken in the morning feeling a little disturbed or emotional by crazy ones. Dreams are just your thoughts sorting themselves out.

Its what we all long for - the relief of not being in our heads. It will come though without you even trying.

Doggy sitting sounds good - do you do that often?

Thank you Katecogs. It had been settled for several years. Then last year with COVID and 2 deaths of elderly relatives (not COVID related) I had a few blips but was able to work through it. In January though the anxiety was stronger. My Dr is considering HRT because it could be Perimenapause? I do get hot flushes too but periods normal. The Dr wants to give the Citalopram more time but like i say it has been 3 months since last increase. I'm finding it increasingly hard to put up with the anxiety. In the evenings it 'lifts ' but I clock watch all day. My legs tingle all the time which is an unpleasant reminder, im shakey particularly in the mornings and loss of appetite. The Dr has prescribed Propronal but scared to take it! So I'm in limbo. Maybe I should push for HRT because this anxiety seems to be going on. Citalopram has always worked quicker for me in the past. x

Hi Deb

Sorry to hear of your relatives deaths 😓 Difficult times. It could well have been this that triggered some stress which eventually led to some anxiety - and if you’re in the UK we all had a strange Christmas being in lockdown which was upsetting for many.

Yes it could also be a combination of perimenapause too - our hormones can cause tension, upset and anxiety too I guess. Its worth considering HRT then.

Yes do give Citalopram a long time - longer than you think. That’s good that the anxiety is lifting in the evenings - this is how I first ever recovered when my evenings started being normal.

Anxiety is a self perpetuating condition, and its not something we can help once it starts. It is definitely our attitude towards anxiety that matters, though I know this is hard to do.

The books mentioned show you how to ‘not care’ about it even though its present. Our focus and fear on anxiety is what keeps it alive and kicking. The key is to not try and rid ourselves of anxiety but instead leave it alone, let it be present, let it do what it wants, let it walk beside us and take it with us as we recover. The more we try and get rid of it and the more we get frustrated with it, the more it will linger. Accepting it as part of us (for now), trying not to react to it, will in time lead us to a life without anxiety.

@KateCoggs

Hey Kate,

So lovely to hear from you again, I always feel a sense of comfort when I know you are on the forum still doing what you do best 🤗

This is a crazy illness right enough Kate as although I'm having brighter days now and my thoughts are still hanging around but aren't as aggressively gripping me, I don't know if I'm just learning to live with it or its Def recovery! My family and friends say No! it's Def recovery. They all think I'm doing incredibly well. I'm understanding and remembering now from 20 yrs ago the difference between my setbacks and blips.

I can't say "yeah I feel great" or " I feel crap" I just seem to be feeling not as bad now and a good bit better. I hope this is recovery. Strange how we don't notice recovery ourselves but everyone else can. It must be when the anxiety calms we give off a more relaxed vibe and we seem more in control.

I decided to increase my meds by a quarter each day 3 wks ago as my mood was low and I was curious to see if I would be better on a slightly higher doze, but a week later I had an awful setback. I don't know if it was the increase as I'm like a sponge to medication, I absorb them very quickly and intensely, or it was everything had built up in me over the weeks, but I had an outcry of emotions. I cried uncontrollably for hrs! I decided to go back down to my 10 mg as I wasn't doing well on the increase.

Amazingly tho I was able to go out the next day, and the day after that again I met my friend for coffee and although I wasn't feeling ab brilliant I was still content enough that when I said Bye to her, I decided to strut along to the beauticians to have a wee pampering treatment but just before I reached the salon I tripped over the pavement and went through the air and landed in a puddle, my trousers were soaked and ripped at the knees, (looked like my Daughter's jeans haha!) my top was unrecognisable and my hands and knees were all cut! The poor Beauty Therapist looked at me shocked as tho I was an old down n out as I stood in her doorway sobbing and mumbling all my emotions...I sounded drunk! 🥴 hahaha! Needless to say after a sympathetic ear and a shoulder to cry on by my lovely beauty therapist friend, I still had my ( well deserved treatment) and a coffee, an hr later all cleaned down and feeling more refreshed and calmer, I was now looking like Jennifer Anniston...joking of course! I left the salon crying tears of laughter, even the salon girls were laughing at the whole scenario 😂😂😂 At least I was able to give them a laugh 😄 I walked home in my trendy t-shirt kindly given to me from the salon girls, my ripped jeans feeling young and glam, ( not too shabby for Cairns) 😂😂you honestly cdn't have written it😂😂

As I said, I'm feeling ok, and a lot brighter and this can still be interspersed by little momentarily blips but I'm not as low and I'm still going out and doing my thing.

I celebrated my Birthday last week and I didnt think I wdve enjoyed it as much after my setback, I cdve won the lottery and it wdnt have lifted me, only recovery will, but I had a beautiful day and I was spoiled rotten, God was Def listening me! 🙏 Def having more calmer times now. I'm listening to music more and watching a bit more tv. The thoughts are coming and going now. The feelings from them can still scare me and make me feel uncomfortable when I'm in unknown company or territory but I know this too will fade with more practice. I still feel a bit like standing in a glass room looking out at my life and this too is all part of my illness but I know that too shall trickle away through time.

I doggy sit my family's dogs Kate, and I love them🤗 Cocker Spaniels and lhasa Apso, great way to make me go out which has helped me. I am thinking of buying a dog but they are so expensive, since Lockdown they have trebled in price, it's ridiculous! So for now Ill continue to be the fav Aunty for my K9 nephews! Haha!

Take Care as always

I hope my reply finds you well

🤗🥰Xx

Hi Cairns

Yes, absolutely anxiety is a crazy condition.

Oh my gosh, you poor thing having a tumble like that 😮 It really shakes you up doesn’t it. That’s so nice the beauticians were so helpful and patched you up as well as you staying to have the treatment!! Remember next time that scissors are a safer way to get trendy jeans 🤣

I remember falling over many years ago when I was at work - crossing the main road with a pile of boxes to post as a bus was approaching, I couldn’t see where I was going, but didn’t expect the road to disappear under me …. but I fell into a hole the busses had churned up, tripped up and did a sort of Superman dive across the road, boxes went everywhere, the bus stopped and I landed on the pavement where people picked me up. I cut my legs and arms (no ripped clothes strangely), thanked people, dropped the boxes off and limped back to my office where the pain kicked in. I had neck whiplash and was in pain for about 2 weeks. My knee has never been right since.

I read an interesting article by someone called the ‘let down effect’ - which is apparently something we experience as we recover or even at the end of recovery:

The ‘let down effect’ - its quite common to experience constant or frequent periods of sadness and depression. I’ve read that when we’re anxious our body pumps out tons of stress hormones 24/7 through our body. They’re powerful stimulants which cause all the symptoms we experience (called sensitisation or hyperstimulated). This function makes us feel awake, alive, alert etc so our body is in readiness for fight or flight. As we recover we start to produce less of these stress hormones and we may feel this as exhaustion, sadness, depressed, tired etc since our body isn’t receiving these powerful stimulants in the same dosage. Its like having caffeine, we become alert and then we crash. This is whats happening to our body, so it needs lots of time to adjust to the back to the baseline.

Yes increasing meds will intensify any symptoms temporarily and then will settle. We really shouldn’t try and avoid any symptoms because that’s what keeps us locked in the anxiety cycle - avoiding, being afraid of, dreading them - all of which makes more anxiety which is what we’re trying to recover from. This is why allowing any feelings to come and changing the way how we react to them is the way to recover.

Happy Birthday for last week! ❤️ Sounds like you had a super day 😃

Setbacks are tough, but even in the middle of one, go do your stuff however you feel, even if you feel at your worst - just go live how you’d normally do. This is how to deal with setbacks and anxiety - by letting it hold you back is giving in to it. Take the setback with you and let it accompany you - don’t sit at home waiting for it to go. Doing things when feeling at your worst is how setbacks lose their grip.

Same with the thoughts - let them come and go, don’t get entangled with them. They do feel scary and uncomfortable don’t they, I remember it well. Whatever feeling comes with the thought, just carry on with whatever you’re doing - that thought and the feeling will pass. By making a ‘thing’ of it (entanglement) just makes it important, so by ‘ignoring’ it it slowly loses its grip on you. Yeah I know - its incredibly hard.

Awwww the dogs sound so cute! Yes they do get you out don’t they. My daughter has 2 pugs (little clown dogs) 🤣 and I’ve often gone for walks with them too (though pugs don’t often walk in a straight line).

I think there’ll be lots of young dogs (pedigree’s too) in rehoming centres soon as many people got puppies during lockdown, and now they’re returning to work I think many will be parting with them sadly. You may find a little furry friend …..

K 🤗💕

Hey Kate,

OMG! What a shame for you! That was a terrible fall you had, esp with a bus approaching too! I'ts a shame you had to go back to work after being so hurt and shaken up! Whiplash is a horrible thing! It stops you from being flexible in your movements. Sometimes these injuries can continue to burden us, like your knee still does.

Happened to me in work a few yrs ago too, I slipped on a water spillage and went up in the air and landed and battered my whole self on the concrete floor, 30 mins later I had to deal with a customer and she was ranting something so trivial and I wanted to just cry 😢

These accidents would normally happen in our lives but when we are down with depression/anxiety they seem to happen more due to our lack of concentration which makes us more clumsy and we react as tho it's more personal like "Why Me!". I keep saying someone is up there sticking pins in some voodoo doll of me and I always scream out " Yeah that's right! stick it in more cos it's not painful enough!!" Haha! or " Aaaw Come On God! Am I not going through enough!!...Give me a break please!!" Haha!

Thanks Kate, I did have a beautiful Birthday 😊 Call me crazy but I did feel a little spiritual intervention from my 'higher power' letting me know that they're around me making sure I'd have a lovely day and not to lose hope 🙏🥰

I have to say tho Kate, since I've been ill and as crippling as my anxiety has been I've still never shy'd away from going out and still doing things no matter how uncomfortable I've felt. You know yourself your thoughts follow you and there are days I can cope better than others but I still get up and do what needs doing. When I tell you how upset I've been and that feeling of doubt and fear washes over me I'm still going about my day as much as I can. I just like to confide in you 🥰

Only the first couple of weeks I felt a need to be at home as I was so ill. I've not returned to work yet through choice, as I decided to use my full 6 months sick leave to help with my recovery and to make sure I dont return too early and then relapse. I did that last November not realising I was heading for a complete breakdown but I wasn't on meds then and I hadnt a Scooby what was happening to me. All I knew then was that I was feeling depressed, anxious and then these really frightening thoughts started coming over me. My Dr said it was a common reaction to PTSD which could've come on me due to post menopause ( complete hormonal decline) or a bad job experience (different job & company) which I'd just got out of which had taken its toll on me. I didn't understand tho as the intrusive thoughts were nothing to do with any of this nor are they a reflection of who I am as a person. All I know was that it left me scared/terrified to deal with things in life I'd normally take for granted or not bother about. I know it's the anxiety doing it and most days now it's not at the forefront of my mind as much esp when I'm busy.

My family know I'm doing tremendously well as I'm doing things that some people cdn't cope with at my stage.

I've just driven 80 miles yesterday to visit my disabled cousin who lives in a carehome. I felt cheery enough but I still felt a heaviness hanging over me, and I had wee blips along the way but I carried on. Did I feel wonderful afterwards! Not completely, only a satisfying feeling of knowing my cousin was happy to see me but upset as going about my day is something I'd normally never analyse and that upsets me. My Mum said that's because it isn't normal at moment..nothing about this illness is and she's right!

I'm obvs still recovering as I'm aware it's still early days but I'm getting slowly better. You're right though Kate the thoughts are the last to go. I can feel other parts of me relaxing a good bit more but the thoughts are still lingering.

It is hard no matter how we relax into them, as it's the feelings from them can have me shaken. I do understand the method but it is still difficult. A work friend said to me the other day " uch its just all in your head!" I wanted to slap her 😠 she didnt have a clue, tho I did say to her "okay I'll pick your biggest fear out and say it's JUST all in your head!" She didn't like it but the penny dropped 😏

I'm not bothering about increasing my dosage now Kate as I was only trying it due to feeling very down, thinking a higher doze might lift me. It was curiosity too as most people seem to be on 20mg and I thought maybe I should be too but it was silly as it only upset my system when I shdve left well alone.

Your ab right about the Let Down method and I did Google it. Its what I'm going through just now.

I went through this yrs ago & so did my Mum, it's just got a different phrase now. We both uncannily described it as feeling completely fed up for ages and nothing enthused us. It went on like this until we started to feel tiny wee bits lighter each month until the thoughts died out then without realising it we were well again. My Mum said the thoughts were the last to go for her too. That's the way I feel at the moment, I'm doing far more in my days now and going further but along the way I'm still anxious but that's only natural to the way the illness affects you.

It's like vulnerable babies do a botty along the floor at first then they crawl, then they stand wobbly, then nervously takes their first step or two, grab on to an object or reach for a human hand for security but all along the way they still fall down on their wee botty many times before getting back up and nervously trying again before they're fully able to stand and walk on their own. That's the way recovery is to me.

My friend has a little Pug dog, I think they are so funny🤗

Yeah there are going to be a lot of neglected wee doggies now that lockdown is lifting and people are going back to work. We'll get one eventually, just hanging off till the right one comes along. We've promised my daughter a dog for 5 yrs now. She wdnt forgive us if she moved out and then we got one plus it'll be good for myself too and I've always wanted one.

Are you taking any breaks this yr Kate? We're going away for a few days next week, we're heading further up North, hopefully do some walking....good to get out in the fresh air..good for the soul 🤗💕xx

hi kate, hope you are well. been feel more and more myself recently prob about 80 percent just coming up to 4 months now and i know i still a bit off full recovery and its different for everyone one. just a question for yourself did the blips get less and less and just come and go ? just i think i keep getting them out of the blue but they donts seem as intense and albe to mange them, they also dont last for weeks like they did the first time just a few days they have been. do these one get even less intense and even shorter for like even a day or a few hours.

hi cairns, hope you are keeping well. im have a couple of off mornings again feel sick and heightened anxiety, just came on from no where but seems to fade out of an evening maybe another blip but dosnt seem as bad hopefully dosnt last as long as last time. do u have regular blips and do they get less and less, this feels like its there but im able to do stuff to try forget it

Hi Nathan

Yes thanks I’m well - enjoying the nicer weather here now.

I found my blips got less intense and shorter in duration as each month passed yes - I guess it’s different for each person though, but generally you should slowly get better and better. It’s a really slow, gradual process.

For me it took a good 6 months before I could actually say I was happy in myself and not stuck in my head anymore.

In ‘normal’ life (without anxiety), people’s moods are up and down, and I think when we have anxiety these blips are what would be normal moods but we over feel them due to having sensitised nerves. As your nerves heal, you won’t feel these so intensely and they’ll just return to normal up and down moods that everyone has.

But yes, I did find the blips got less intense and shorter until they stopped.

Hi Kate - Not sure if you remember me! I was on Citalopram a year ago but had a bad reaction restarting it and you helped me out alot. I'm so annoyed private messaging stopped!

I'm now 6 weeks on Prozac after my Gp told me to switch. Ironically having the same symptoms as Citalopram 8 weeks in. Chest pain (anxiety) and a sort of constant shaking/muscle twitching feeling. Like my body is constantly bracing itself. I think I'm slowly accepting that this is just how my body reacts to medication and it just takes longer to work for my stubborn brain. I was lacking hope but the acceptance is helping. The muscle tension is normal right? Someone mentioned serotonin syndrome and it put me in a state but trying to calm myself out of it. Just going to stick with it and pray for the light at the end of the tunnel. I hope you are keeping well!

Yes I remember we chatted via messaging - agree, so annoying that feature has stopped.

Sorry you’re having a tough time on meds, and yes they do generally work the same and give similar side effects off too, though some suit some people more than others.

Is it painful chest pain or a sort of tightness in the chest? I’m guessing pain? I wonder if that's your muscles tensing ......... I'm sure your doctor will be keeping an eye on you. Yes shaking / muscle twitching is a side effect and I vaguely remember having that too.

Muscle tension is normal yes - its either the anxiety itself or the medicine, which heightens symptoms at first before they settle.

Serotonin syndrome is a serious drug reaction yes, and can often be caused when people mix medicines together which is why we must always check with the pharmacist for drug interactions. Serotonin sydrome often causes many symptoms that we also get when we start up an SSRI medication which is normal, but think the difference is how severe it is and also serotonin syndrome can also cause disorientation / confusion too along with fever.

6 weeks is a good time to be on the meds and the symptoms should slowly ease over time.

Yes acceptance is brilliant and really is the way to recovery (some people recover using acceptance alone).

Anxiety is basically fear, panic and anxiety of the anxiety itself. Its a horrible feeling and we try to prevent it which just makes it worse, then we go round in circles feeding it with our negative thoughts, fear of it and avoidance. The medicine breaks this cycle - and / or acceptance too. Acceptance means first learning about anxiety and then practicing letting all symptoms come, not reacting to them (as best you can), and getting on with whatever you’re doing which having those awful symptoms without question. This doesn’t relieve anxiety or make it go away, but it will over time as it retrains your body to not fear it. Over time all the symptoms and anxiety lessen and eventually stop. Its simple, but its not easy at all. Anxiety is usually a learnt condition and it can be unlearnt.

Keep going with the meds and you will see a difference in time. It takes a long time so persevere 😉

Yes thanks I’m keeping well 😄 x

@nathan291

Hey Nathan,

Yes I do still get blips and setbacks. I comp agree with Kate. As time goes by setbacks dont come as often but along the way I can have wee blips which I call a momentarily jolt but I try to let them pass. Its not easy but I just try to breath through it. It can be a sudden intrusive thought out of nowhere and it makes me feel someone has kicked me in the stomach but I try to move on from it by keeping my mind occupied.

My setbacks seem to be like every 3 wks now. In the beginning they were every day. I can tell now when they are coming on, I start to feel very anxious, upset and feelings of no hope. I can have a few hrs of uncontrollable crying, then the next day I feel washed out but most of my anxiousness goes away and I seem to move forward again.

As Kate says we are all different and good moments can all be different for each individual but as long as we are all having good moments thats a sure sign of recovery. Shes also right in saying that in a normal day we can have highs and lows that we dont sweat over but because we have anxiety thrown into the mix we start to panic over it.

I had a terrible day yesterday, cried all day and today I had a lovely day, went out for lunch, felt a lot calmer and happier, some moments I felt like my old self so Im praying Ill start to get more days like this. You will too Nathan, this is just your bad days but they will become calmer again xx

@KateCogs

Hey Kate, Im sorry Im just checking you received my reply, I know youre a very popular woman and in great demand for your brilliant advice. Im a nightmare! It takes me a few days for me to piece together my passage of War and Peace back to you haha! I hope your enjoying this lovely weather like myself ☀️ 😊xx

@KateCogs

Hey Kate, Im sorry Im just checking you received my reply, I know youre a very popular woman and in great demand for your brilliant advice. Im a nightmare! It takes me a few days for me to piece together my passage of War and Peace back to you haha! I hope your enjoying this lovely weather like myself ☀️ 😊xx

Hi @katecogs.

Yeah chest pain and breathing anxiety was one of my old anxiety symptoms. Its just a shame its decided to come back with the medication and 24/7 pain. My fixates on physical sensations and my brain translates that to pain. So SSRI's were always going to be a bumpy ride. (citalopram worked for me last year 10mg)

Its just the lack of hope as i tried Citalopram again and it made me worse 12 weeks in. This (prozac 20mg) is doing the same - although my shaking has stopped so small wins haha. This is my only hope honestly so feeling worse than before is hard. But all i can do is keep going right? Thank you for all that you do. I'm 22 and pretty alone in this so I am very grateful

I’ve kind of lost where we all are with messages now 😮

Yes falling over is quite a shock - funny how when you’re a child and you fall over, you cry but you bounce back once patched up. Not anymore lol. Yes the whiplash was quite sore and it went into my shoulder too.

Water spillage is lethal and especially if on a tiled floor (knowing any spills on my kitchen floor). A ranting customer is upsetting - must be hard to keep your professional ‘coolism’.

Yes definitely accidents hit us harder if our nerves are already sensitised and more responsive than normal.

All your words I recognise as things I used to say too!! 😄 Why me etc lol.

Glad you had a good birthday - it certainly lifts your spirits having a special day.

Yes I never stopped going out when I was ill but was never an issue for me anyway - I always felt better when out with people, doing things, working etc - it was being at home on my own that freaked me out as I hated my own company. I think we all want to stay in bed and hide under the duvet until its gone (I did anyway) so yes, getting out and on with things is better 😃

I think those first few weeks are always terribly hard and I struggled too - didn’t want to go anywhere to do anything.

Yes it probably is a combination of things - hormones and a bad job (I left my last job due to a toxic character there). Maybe we’re just more susceptible to stress? Yes anxiety is definitely doing it - its making you feel it much more acutely than you normally would.

That’s a good drive - yes I remember taking a heaviness with me for a while. Your body is still recovering, and I know how much of a pain it is waiting whilst accpeting.

Yep those thoughts do linger - you’ll find they’ll lose their impact and because of that they’ll slowly disappear into the background. I had so many fierce intrusive thoughts that plagued me 24/7 and they’re all gone. Don’t bother me at all now even if I think of them.

The method is difficult as its not meant to bring about relief (as I once thought) - its just something you apply and which your body slowly gets used to. Its changing your attitude.

You’ll always get those who say the most unsensitive things - I’ve had my fair share of them too. Many people I’ve wanted to slap too 😄 They have absolutely no idea of the pain we go through, but yes, ‘if’ its all in our head then what advice would she give to get it out of our heads? If she suffered with the same then she’d go through exactly the same journey as the rest of us and suffer the same.

I do think that dose will get you there in time - you’ve come so far already and it is time.

Yes I had the Let Down Effect the second time I started meds - I was so flat, nothing inspired me or made me smile and I felt like a robot. It eventually lifted. I did find each month that passed how I had small changes.

Yes it is baby steps - passing through each stage, toddling along, falling over sometimes, but progressing.

That’s something exciting to look forward to, getting a little dog.

No breaks for us this year - I did think of having a weekend away in Devon to my favourite B&B but they’ve closed down 😦 But think we’ll just mosey around at home this year. We’ve had a few cruises so look forward to the time it’ll be safe enough to re-cruise (is that a word)? 😄 Walking is lovely - we used to go on walking holidays in Wales, Lake District etc. Oooh camping too - nothing like laying in a tent with rain pattering on it - so cosy (until you need to go outside) 😄

The meds do heighten symptoms initially and often the do take longer second time round. Maybe then this is just extended heightened symptoms.

I’m sure if the SSRI’s worked before for you then they will again in time.

Yes changes do happen really slow so maybe the shaking is one side effect that’s already passed, and the others willf ollow.

Yes keep going - that what I did. It did seem to drag on and on but I persevered.

It does feel a lonely business and know when I was first ill I didn’t talk to anyone about it except my doctor. I just couldn’t. Reading about it though helps you understand you’re absolutely not alone and millions go through this. I was 20 when I was first ill - this is not a life sentence, we can all recover from this.

hi katie, ive finding and reading your posts all night. they are only thing i am finding comfort in at the moment. im 4weeks and 4 days into 10mg of cit and my anxiety is the worst it has ever been. my head is full of weird out of character thoughts, something i have never had before so its so scary!! is this normal? what do these thoughts mean?? thanks so much x

Hi Megan

Early days still on the meds - keep going on them as can take a good 3 or 4 months before you start to see the benefits.

Anxiety is often worse at the beginning when starting the meds as they seem to heighten anxiety initially - this will lessen over time.

Those thoughts are a side effect of anxiety - I was plagued by them. The thoughts can be about anything and can frighten you yes - they mean nothing though and have no meaning at all. They are just a side effect and will go away as the anxiety lessens.

They seem to stick around because they cause anxiety and then the anxiety causes the thoughts. The best way to treat them is to just let them come and go and do not start analysing them, try to figure them out, revisit them each time - because that just keeps the thought ticking over. Just leave them alone, don’t try stopping them, let them appear in your mind and then just carry on with whatever you’re doing without any entanglement with the thought. I promise you they will go in time.

At the moment the focus is on the thoughts because they bring such an uncomfortable feeling with them, but as you recover, those thoughts will lose the feelings attached to them and they will lose their importance and become just another thought and be forgotten about.

Its the same when you get a tune from the radio stuck in your head which plays over and over - we don’t try and stop it or keep analysing what its all about, we just get on with our day and leave it alone. That tune will soon disappear from our mind.

I know though these thoughts come with fear, so they do feel different from a stuck tune, but just treat it the same. It won’t disappear overnight but it will in time.

So yes, this is completely normal at the moment. Keep on with the meds as they will calm the body and the anxiety and those thoughts will go too.

K ❤️

Thank you SO much for your reply! This has made me feel so much better. Reading your advice on these forums have been the only thing that has put my mind at ease. please dont ever stop doing this, it seems that so many others feel the same way. i feel much brighter tonight but i hate to jinx it. The racing scary thoughts have been the worst part for me, i know they are put of character but i still get such a fright. i also feel quite tearfull at times and after having a big panic attack 3 nights ago, i felt out of sorts for days. Thank you so much for the recommendation, i will look into this. Again, i can see you have been doing this for many years, very selfless and i am so grateful i found all your advice and these threads! x

hi Kate, thats good im glad your well yes the nicer weather defo helps dosnt it. feel im getting there slowly still not 100 percent maybe 75-80 but its a hell of a lot better from where i was. just coming up to 5 months now on fluoxetine and i know ive still a bit to go everyone is different i know some quicker and slower than others to recovery.

Had both my replies to you deleted I’m afraid - I mentioned the authors by initials and was picked up. Sorry Mr Moderator 😕

The racing thoughts are a side effect of anxiety and they’re not who you are. Anxiety causes them, so try not to be too bluffed by them. I know the feelings they bring can be distressing but by accepting them and letting them be there without getting entangled then those thoughts will slowly lose their grip on you. By fighting them, resisting them, supressing them etc then you’ll just go round in circles and the anxiety won’t go away. The meds will help sort this on their own of course, but learning about how to accept these is so beneficial too.

Yes panic makes you feel quite helpless and not in control - I cried plenty when I was ill. A panic attack can leave you out of sorts for days yes, and like the racing thoughts, you treat panic exactly the same. Just leave it alone, let it come and go, try not to react to it, fix it or anything. If you panic, let it be and then carry on with whatever you’re doing. No it won’t feel nice and accepting it will not make it go away, but it will the more you do this.

Acceptance is very hard, but it is the way forward.

Thank you for your reply! This helps alot! i just want to be sure the intrusive thoughts go away. i dont feel like they are me at all. im only 5 weeks and 3 days into my 10mg and i had a good day yesterday but today has been a bit up and down. i just keep wondering to myself, 'will i always be like this now?' or 'am i always going to suffer from this?'.

did your intrusive thoughts go away completely once you recovered? im practicing the acceptance technique and things are slighlty easing but im just so impatient haha! thanks so much for replying.

megan xx

@megan595

Hey Megan,

Sorry to jump in, I just wanted to say to you that youre not alone and everything Kate says is true.

I was ill like Kate 20 yrs ago and I recovered. Everything was treated differently then and noone spoke about intrusive thoughts. It was all labelled as Depression which in a way it is as they are all linked like a circle ..ie... Depression, Anxiety, Intrusive thoughts. They all rub off one another. The medication helps to break that circle by very slowly reducing the impact of them all and when we stop feeling the impact of them all then they very very very slowly start to dissappear.

I came off all meds yrs ago but unfortunately my illness returned late last year due to other spikes of stress in my life. You'd think that Id know how to rid myself of these new intrusive thoughts ( old thoughts dont bother me now) but they are so scary and new that they made me feel I'll never be better again. They are not a reflection of the real normal person I am.

I have been on Citalopram 10mg for over 5 mths now and Im starting to feel a lot better. Everyone is different and it depends on how severe your anxiety is on the time recovery takes and how you respond to different treatments.

Its awful to say the least as its like a waiting game on getting better. I had terrible days like yourself and I still do when I have a setback but I know now each setback takes you forward a little bit more as you come out of it. So if you feel a cry coming on then let it out as it does help release pent up adrenaline and calms your nerves. You wont feel instantly better but you will a few days later, like slight differences in areas where youve lost interest start to improve, you might wont to go further in your day and forgetting your thoughts for 2 mins thats a sure sign your anxiety is lessening. All these tiny movements are a sign. Im lucky as my Mum went through this like Kate many yrs ago and they both have been my mentors and an inspiration.

I was frightened of the method Kate speaks about in the book of letting go and ignoring it ( I bought the books) as I thought if I did then the thoughts would engulf me but then I realised I was already living like I was ok as I was going about my day (Covid permitting) without realising it. I thought because my intrusive thoughts were always there that I was doing something wrong until Kate and my Mum both said they took there thoughts with them everywhere..and its through doing this that they slowly started to diminish. I now remember thats the way it went away for me yrs ago.

Kates right tho its not easy doing this as the feelings the thoughts give off are so frightening but if you have a duty to see out in your day like picking the kids up from school then focus on the duty and not the thought alone. I feared being amongst people in a shop ( not because of Covid) so I focused hard on the items I had to buy and this helped me forget. I now understand what Kate means, its understanding the method is to do nothing. If you get up and say " right Im gonny practice ignoring these thoughts" then youre gonny make them bigger because your making them your focus but accepting them as a runny nose is a symptom in a cold...it'll get lesser as the cold clears up and thats like our symptoms, they'll clear through time...a lot of time. Its def not easy but youll get there Megan, each day is recovery and I can even say that now and Im still recovering! 🤗xx

@Katecogs

Hey Kate 😊

Well I'm not long home from my extended break further up North from where we live. It was ab beautiful and I had a lovely time, even got through a few bottles of wine 🥴😂 but considering this was my first time away since being ill it felt like a major dive into the deepest waters. I did all the driving too. I enjoyed myself but it was interspersed by a few low moments where I felt out of my comfort zone but I continued although it was hard and I felt anxious, sometimes just momentarily and other moments a few hrs. When I came home I was tired and felt overwhelmed as it's like mental exhaustion. I had a good cry and then the next day I seemed to feel better.

I've had a few lightbulb moments where the accepting method is sinking in now! It's only taken me 5 months haha!

I kept thinking I had to practice not thinking about the thoughts when all I had to do is get used to them being there...not as easy as it sounds tho!

I realised that this is what I've been doing all along! Taking it with me but still living! Only thing was I thought I was expected to come back home feeling elated everytime and when I wasn't I thought "Oh No! Why is it not away!" but that's not the case, if we can try and accept this then through time it will lose its impact then that's when we'll start to feel better.

I'm still anxious now and then and my dreams can upset me sometimes as I told you before, they can be so bizarre and about my thoughts trying to torment me, but it's not all the time and I'm still recovering so I think this all just subconscious nerves as I'm starting to feel better now, Im nervous of these thoughts ruining my recovery if you understand me. As my Mum says tho Kate, once I'm fully recovered I won't think about it and it won't threaten me anymore.

I'm going back to work in a month so that's progress too. I can only pray this will be good for me and the right choice 🙏 It's understandable to be naturally anxious after being off for 6 months but I feel it's time which is good 😊

I had text Megan on the forum who was speaking to you and I had said to her that you and my Mum have been an inspiration to me and also fabulous mentors. I wdnt get through my bad days esp a few months ago without your words of comfort and complete reassurance. So a huge Thank You to you Kate. You have been better for me than any therapist! 🤗

I'm still recovering and I've a good bit to go yet but I can see it happening very slowly.

Oooh Kate I love the Lake District. Been quite a few times and never tire of it. I've been to many many places in England, one of my faves is York, I love the 'Shambles' I want to see Port Isaac in Cornwall where Doc Martin is filmed, looks ab gorgeous! Camping is one of our fav pastimes too, not so good when its raining tho! The minute a wee bit of rain gets in your tent, then everything is wet! haha! Good fun tho esp if you have a bottle of wine with you and a camp fire 🔥

My Daughter is going to Alton Towers for a fun break in two weeks with her boyfriend, I loved it there too, I only go on the easier rides but I love the greenery as it's a lovely theme park and very relaxing.

Well next week Kate we will be proud owners of a cocker spaniel 🐶 We're really excited and it'll def give me a great focus and sleepless nights 🥴😴😂😂

I can see me starting a new forum for people who suffer K9 stress haha! Ill keep you posted on life as a new dog owner😂 😂Xx😊💕

Hi Cairns!

Thank you so much for your message! You and Kate's messages are so reassuring for me and im so so glad i found this forum. Its been a blessing! Im definitely starting to feel better. especially when i look back on where i was 3-4 weeks ago. its slow but things are bothering me ever so slightly less with each day that is passing. Everything you all said is true and i am starting to beileve that i will get through this now! im 29 but had a bad flare of anxiety at 21, from which i fully recovered on Citalopram and have been off it for many years. im just in the middle of my final medical school exams at the moment and things have been super stressful. im having my moments still and still worry that there is something else wrong with me that explains all this but i know deep down its just the anxiety. i think the biggest hurdle i face is the worry that i will always be like this? what if the thoughts dont go? what if im always anxious and always worry? what if this is how my life is going to go now? is there something wrong with me?

that is hard! i appreciate all your kind words, they have helped me more than you know! i come back frequently and re read messages and comments and that seems to give me a lot of cofindence!

megan xx

@megan595

Hey Megan,

Im glad Kate and myself have helped you feel a bit more positive 🤗 Its true though as Kate said to me once that if it takes a long time for anxiety to knock us down then its gonny take that amount of time to pick ourselves back up....so so true.

I dont think I would feel comfortable if I woke tomorrow to find it all gone. Yeah it would feel great but it wouldnt feel natural. As I said a cold doesnt go away overnight so why would this. Id have fear of it returning. This has happened to myself before.

I was 21 too when I had my first bout of anxiety Megan. We could say its hormones or stress that brings it on but one thing is the journey to recovery is the same for us all. Some people may recover quicker, it just depends on the individual.

Its a shame you are feeling this way during your exams but maybe it was the stress from studying has added to your anxiety. The intrusive thoughts arent always related to why you became ill. I did learn from my Doctor that when we are at our lowest with depression and anxiety our thoughts can latch on to a subject or thing that we see or hear that we either have a strong dislike to or dont agree with and instead of letting the thought pass over, we dont, we start questioning why its upset us and so the intrusion of more negative questions and answers in our minds begins, thus leading us to spiral down the path to more anxiety and in some cases panic attacks. Thats the eay it happened to myself. There is nothing wrong with you and your not going crazy. Its the feelings from the thoughts thats scaring you. Kate, my Mum and myself have all said we felt we were taken over by a demon in our heads.

If you can find older replies that Kate has given to other people on this forum about primary and secondary thoughts then this will help reassure you Megan.

Im in my late 50s now Megan and mine has returned due to a decline in my hormones. I went through menopause at 39. HRT was my lifesaver until I came off it a few yrs ago. I spoke to a pharmacist and she completely agreed with me that HRT can put your symptoms on hold, it masks over them and now Ive come off them Im suffering the decline again and the mental symptoms from menopause.

I was so very ill in Jan I had to take time off work but I can see a great difference in myself now tho I know I still have a way to go but Ill get there. Im returning to work soon but I never thought 2 mths ago I cdve said that let alone think about it.

Youll get through this Megan, you are on the right track esp now that the meds are making you feel a bit brighter. They always make you feel worse before better and now and then if you have a blip or setback thats all part of recovery too, moving you forward each time. I hope you get on well in your exams, remember your not alone

Take Care xx💕

Hi Cairns

Ooh look at you eh!! How fabulous you got away AND did all the driving - way to go!! It can feel weird and you think you’re out of your comfort zone, but thats not how it would have been before anxiety.

Remember, we actually want those feelings to come because we can’t practice acceptance without them.

A holiday and driving all the time is tiring - no wonder you’re tired. I expect this tiredness felt emotional - and no doubt what you achieved. A good cry is good for you.

Ah ha - I had exactly the same experience with acceptance. I also went through that phase of ‘not thinking’ about the thoughts, and whilst that sort of worked for a bit, it wasn’t the answer. Not thinking about them is stopping them which we don’t want to do.

You have to allow them to come and go - when they come we then don’t want to start that head chatter of oh no here it is again, why is it here, I don’t like it and all that analysis stuff. Just let it come, let it be there, no head chat with it (no entanglement) and the thought will ease off.

Again I did that too - I kept looking for the relief from acceptance and for the thought to go. And yes, that old head chatter soon starts up when this doesn’t happen.

Yes thats it - we have to accept everything about the anxiety, thoughts and everything that goes with it. Yes you take it everywhere with you, you live your life with all those thoughts and feelings but you just leave them alone - no analysis about it. Of course, you do first need to understand anxiety and thats through the book. If you don’t understand it then you won’t understand the acceptance process and will keep questioning it.

Dreams can be weird - I often have strange dreams and sometimes dreams can feel disturbing. I’ve woken up before feeling anxious, and when that happens I just get back to accepting it as know I’d feel ok again in a day or so.

But yes, it took me quite a while to fully understand what acceptance truly was, and I’d often lose sight of that and would have to read it many times. Its easy to slip back into supressing / stopping thoughts and thinking this is what it means, but seems like you’re beginning to understand it more. Its also great to start to see it work too.

Its such a simple method, but hard to get a grip on it at times, and then apply it.

Thoughts from your dreams shouldn’t ruin your recovery - again they’re just thoughts. Treat them all the same - acceptance. Thats right - once recovered those scary thoughts won’t bother you and you won’t think of them much, and even if you do they won’t scare you.

Hey thats fabulous you’re returning to work! Yes there will be a little uncertainty going back but once into it it will feel comfortable again - you can’t ever lose what you’ve learnt and can apply it to any thoughts and feelings that try and creep in. Accept it all.

Aww bless you, thank you for your thank you lol 😄 I’m just happy I was able to be of help when you needed it - all you learnt from the book is something that will always stand by you xx

I love your reply to Megan - you’ve got this exactly!!! It is hard explaining what ‘doing nothing’ means because anxiety likes to have the last say, but slowly it dawns on you doesn’t it.

Its great when you can start seeing recovery working - its so slow isn’t it, but you can see it drip feeding in.

I’ve never been to York but its on my list to visit sometime - and I love Doc Martin too (have been watching them again recently) and I’d also love to visit Port Isaac. Looks lovely. Camping there would be a dream ❤️ and yes, a camp fire, wine and a nice warm blanket for my knees 😄

I’ve never been to Alton Towers (think my daughter has) and haha yes, thats me too, I only go on the easy rides. Even the London Eye terrified me and I couldn’t stop shaking for hours after. Once was enough.

Awww you did it - a new dog!!! Cocker spaniels are cute, full of energy and adorable. How old is it? I keep saying to my hubby I fancy getting a little dog, but he says 2 cats are enough - who knows though …….

Good idea K9 forum - I’m sure there’s plenty of people who’d be replying!!

K xx

much respect to kate.take care

@lois95799

Absolutely! She is an ab star! She helped me from going deeper in my illness. Im not completely better yet but Kate helped me to see sense in all of this alongside my Mum who had gone through the same as Kate many yrs ago and they had noone to compare notes with, even therapists didnt understand them at the time😥 Hats off to Kate and my Mum for getting through this and still willing to help other people going through it! xx❤️

I couldn't agree more. Kate is an absolute angel and her words give so much comfort for so many.

I first struggled with anxiety in 2019 and her words and wisdom got me through. I am experiencing anxiety again and restarted citalopram. I've been reading old posts and they give me so much reassurance. Anxiety is a funny thing, even though I recovered quite recently, I'd almost forgotten what I learned the first time round.

Acceptance and understanding do go a long way. I am not there yet, but this time with anxiety feels different. Less intense, less scary. I think letting the feelings come, not letting anxiety stop you from living really makes a difference. In a very short space of time I feel a huge difference already. It's more like the anxiety is in the background, rather than fully 'raining on me'. Still there, but less dominant. I still feel weird and do watch myself, but this is where reading Kate's posts helps... I trust that over time it will go too.

Hi Megan

The intrusive thoughts will subside as the anxiety does - they feed each other. This was same thing that used to frighten me too … will I always be like this, how can I not be afraid of my own thoughts, I’ve only got to think it and I feel anxious etc etc … but they do go.

All the ‘will it go away’ etc etc is called head chatter and its this you need to stop.

The intrusive scary thoughts are called Primary thoughts and the ‘will I get better’, ‘what if’ etc etc are called Secondary thoughts. Its the secondary thoughts you add on which keep the primary thoughts circulating.

You can’t stop the intrusive thoughts (primary) but you can control the secondary ones (head chatter).

So just let those intrusive thoughts (primary) one come and go and any feelings they bring too, but don’t head chatter with them (secondary thoughts). Just leave the intrusive thought alone. This is what I mean when I say don’t get entangled with them.

If you had a cold you’d feel miserable but you wouldn’t keep thinking why have I got this cold, how long will it last, will I have it forever ….. over and over all day long. We accept we have a cold, let it be there, let it do its thing and it eventually dies off. I know anxiety is completely different of course, but treat it the same as a cold. Let the symptoms be there, take them with you, don’t try ridding yourself of them (worse thing to do as they stick more), but just leave alone. No entanglement.

It is hard to not get entangled with the thoughts because its a habit you’ve been doing for a while, but a little practice and the head chatter will stop. So no head chatter about any of your symptoms - as this only keeps reminding you of them (counter productive).

You won’t get it right at first and stopping the head chatter doesn’t stop the intrusive thoughts immediately, but it helps eliminate them over time.

So this is what aceptance means. Leave it alone and don’t get involved.

That was also one thing that used to frighten me - will the thoughts ever go, how long will it last etc etc which I thought about daily, for months, years …….. and what good did it do me? In fact it was this that was keeping me stuck in the cycle.

Over the years I learnt about anxiety and understood it more and how to accept. Obviously the meds worked wonders for me too but it was my change of attitude towards anxiety that was so beneficial.

But no - as you recover those thoughts will lose their grip on you and will lose that nasty spike of anxiety, and once recovered the anxiety won’t come with the thoughts. And as the anxiety doesn’t happen, the thoughts won’t produce the anxiety and they become a thing of the past.

When you’re in the middle of all this you won’t be able to see this, see a future without anxiety / thoughts, but you can be free of it all. We can all recover - this is not a life long condition.

I was ill for around 16 years and life felt hopeless to me (before SSRI's, the right help or even the internet). I eventually recovered with the right meds and understanding anxiety.

You will recover xx

Hi Kate,

I had a massive blip tonight... and im feeling SO disheartened and scared. i feel like this is never going to go. im nearly 6 weeks in now to the meds and this is still happening to me. i thought the worst was over. need some help!

megan xx

Hi Megan

This is perfectly normal - 6 weeks on meds is quite early still - my first time on meds took 6 months for me to recover.

Setbacks (blips) are part of recovery and though they’re awful, this is just something we all go through. It doesn’t mean you slipped back, in fact it means you’re getting better.

Just let whatever happen just be there, just understand this is normal for now, don’t get into analysing they why’s, what’s etc, and know this will pass. Try and go with it.

Throughout recovery you’ll get many setbacks but they ease over time.

wothout kate i would of never made a full recovery on 10milligram of celexa.take care you will get there is very slow but it will happen.xo

Hi Nathan

It took me about 6 months to recover many years ago, and I know some take 9 months or longer. Its a gradual process and I found as each month passed I’d feel slightly better, and remember I felt 75%, 80%, 85% …… until I felt 100%.

You’ll get there 😄

Hi Lois

Miss chatting to you via pm's - annoying having the messaging not working isn't it.

Hope you're well ❤️

@lois95799

Aaaw Thank You for your kind words Lois. Yeah Kate def knows and understands as shes lived through it. Shes helped me so much! It def does take its time but I can see the mist clearing ever so slightly. Hopefully this is recovery, very weepy today as Im just fed up with it. Just gonny chillax today tho, maybe bake some cakes,go for a walk/ coffee

I had this 20 yrs ago, you'd think Id know how to deal with it! I think it always comes back with a new force, thoughts etc, but as you recover you see its no different, it just shocks and frightens you all over again. Like falling down a different deep dark hole, only the climb up to recovery is the same process, slip ups and scares along the way. I can accept that now tho its still hard but Ill reach the top eventually....Thank You, How are you now? 😊xx

It is so strange isn't it. I also have been through it before, and as it has come back it's like I have forgotten everything and have to re-educate myself. And it wasn't long ago at all!

I am struggling a fair bit with feeling very flat. Not super anxious but also not right either. Like I am ready for the panic to hit at any moment and I am on guard. Has anyone else experienced this and does it signal recovery is on its way?

@KateCogs

Aaaaw Thank You Kate 😊

Feeling weepy today tho, just overwhelmed by everything I've done last few weeks. It is mentally exhausting so I'm just chillaxing, prob go for a walk and maybe bake later as my family love my cakes, I find it very therapeutic as well as fattening! I'm a kind person so I'll share some of that fat with the family! Haha! 😄

Yeah it's great when you have that lightbulb moment. I was just sitting last week and suddenly felt " that's it!" This is what Kate means by acceptance, it's not practicing forgetting, it's just going on about your day and letting it be as Id been doing! I kept thinking I had to be addressing the thoughts. I was wrong! Let them be because no matter what theyre gonny go with you anyway until they get fed up with you not giving them importance!

I'm not saying I'm suddenly completely better as there are still points where I'm still vulnerable and I can still get a jolt now and then but I know now that through time Ill overcome that and confidence will gradually come.

I'd rather have said this on private message Kate but now that my blips aren't as severe at times and I do have better days in between them now, I know when I feel them coming on. It's like the way my PMT used to be. I seem to go into a sort of super cheery nervy kind of mood and then I know I'm ready for a drop down. That's how I know it's hormonal and age related as it's identical to my old PMT. I used to get anxious and weepy then, and my setbacks now are the same...all anxiety related! It even lifts the same way a few days later.

It's like the song " I can see clearly now the rain has come" haha!

Yeah we were gonny book to go away somewhere in July again but everywhere in the UK is fully booked and doubled in price. A hotel we always go to was normally around £80 for BnB but now it's £180 with no breaky.

So it's camping for us if we can find an availabile campsite.

Oooh I can't wait to get our little puppy. She's only 8wks old 🤗

Due to doggy stealing I can't disclose her name etc on public forum Kate 😕 but she's ab gorgeous!

A dog would be good for you if you like walking and being outdoors as cats do their own thing don't they. Would they get jealous tho?

My parents don't know yet about our wee dog but it'll be a lovely surprise for them as they love my siblings dogs, they are also spaniels. It'll be hard work at first but also a wee bit of happiness too and a great focus for me....I hope! 😄xx💕

hello kate .i aswell miss chatting with u on private message.but rumour has it that this forum was not getting enough traffic due to pm .i can totally relate for the reason of removing pm.xo

The forum wasn't getting enough traffic? Mmmmm ......... I was told the pm was being misused and they've had issues with it so taken it offline for now. Interesting 😉 A shame, as people don't always want to air their personal issues on a public forum and there's no way swapping personal info ie emails, links etc with people now.

Ah well ..... hopefully they'll reinstate it sometime.

i guess they this forum wants everything in the open !except links or personal feelings!lol

@marketta4

Hey,

Yeah I agree with everything you said and feel. Ive went through all of these emotions too. It is all part of your recovery process.

Yeah even when I thought I was feeling not bad but still anxious I felt I was waiting on a blip or a setback. Its because your nerves are on high alert and when you start to feel a bit calmer this feeling shall calm too. That flat mood you feel is just another stage your going through. Ive went through that as well.

Im not completely better yet but I can tell the difference in myself from a month ago. Im a good bit brighter now, Ive been ill for 7 mths and started Citalopram in mid January but I only started at 5mg for 2wks and then increased to 10mg and I feel this doze now suits me. You will get through this patch. It just takes so so long its hard to see recovery but then youll start to notice small differences from previous days/weeks/months.

The reason why it feels different from being ill before is because your last symptoms have prob lost their impact now and they dont bother you anymore. Thats why we find it hard to deal with when we relapse again. We cant believe it has came back so we treat it as being different...its not! Recovery will be the same, some people recover quicker 2nd time around some are slower. It just depends on how severe its affected the individual and how we respond to treatment again. One way or other you will recover...😊Xx

Thank you so much for your reply. I've had a really bad day today, intense anxiety. I recall it is such an up and down affair but when it's bad it really is bad... Once the drugs work this time (I worry they won't!!), I won't come off them in a hurry!

Hi Cairns

Isn’t it hard knowing if you’ve replied or not - much easier on the pm’s.

Yes take time out for yourself when you feel a bit emotional - I had days like that I remember.

We had lots of cake yesterday at our daughters (its her birthday today) and brought lots home too - yes, def know that fat sharing with all lol 🤣 Lots of bike riding this week I think to work it off!!!

Its strange when you get that lightbulb moment - it suddenly becomes so clear. You can read something over and over and often it just doesn’t sink in, then you read it again and it hits home. I even found I’d suddenly get it but the next day I’d lose sight of it, so would have to read it again.

That’s exactly it - its not practicing to forget, get rid of it, for relief, but its about changing your attitude towards it all, getting on with your day, taking it all with you and feeling rubbish still, but just leaving it alone. As the book says - you ‘do nothing’.

This will break the cycle over time.

We have to forget about feeling well today, tomorrow or maybe next week, but keep practicing and that relief we all crave will slowly come over much time.

When you see it working the confidence comes, and with that we begin to not fear it anymore because we know we know our way out of it so much that we lose the fear of going into it.

I guess the PMT is heightened because you’re still a bit sensitised and are over feelings things, so when you get anxious and weepy with PMT you’ll relate it to anxiety.

Thats a great song to use!! Exactly how it feels 😄

Yes it is expensive to go away isn’t it, if you can find anywhere - I’m wondering if campsites will be overwhelmed too. I understand people need to make up lost earnings and put prices up, and its the same for my gym membership - last annual price was £350 and they want £600 now - I get they don’t want to go under but I haven’t had a payrise.

My daughter is worried about the dog stealing too so won’t take her pugs walking on her own now - always goes with her hubby now.

Yes I think my cats would be annoyed if we got a dog, though I’m sure they’d come round eventually. Hubby isn’t keen though so I’ll just have to keep looking a lovely photo’s of them for now 😄

What a lovely surprise for your parents! Our daughter did the same to us with her pugs 😄

@Katecogs

Hey Kate,

That's lovely you had your Daughter's Birthday, I remember you telling me it was coming up. I hope she and all of you had a lovely time 🎉🥂😊 loads of cake left too Yum Yum! 😋 Did you remember the way home 😉😂😂 I keep saying I'm going to buy a chopper bike as it's the only ones I feel comfortable on 😄

That's ludicrous what your gym is asking from you. Everything is going up in price apart from salaries! It's not the way to make up for loss as they will lose custom as people won't be able to afford it!

It is annoying not having pm as your right not everyone feels comfortable mentioning some of their issues on public forum. I know it's meant to be for open discussion too but as you build a comfy rappor with someone, it's good if you can confide in them about other links, names etc.

Yeah it's really disheartening when I've felt not bad only to dip down again. I don't get PMT anymore as I'm past all that now Kate, tho as I'm recovering my blips/setbacks seem to feel like the way my PMT used to be. I become weepy and anxious but then it wears off a few days later. My Mum says it's just my nerves are still on alert causing me to feel scared.

Yeah it's true when we feel better our confidence is stronger and we can see it for what it is but as soon as we have a blip we seem to lose faith again. It's horrible!

I always thought Kate I should be coming home feeling great after stepping out of my comfort zone so when you said that's not always the case I was elated then as I've been beating myself up over that so much, thinking I was the only one who didn't feel instant relief when I went out. You're right tho each month a little bit of positivity creeps in..My Mum always says each month you'll start to feel a little bit better, you'll want to do more, have an interest again in yourself and people. Loads of little things improve in our day, our thoughts aren't always there, our focus is better. I can feel and see that more now. I have days/wks between blips now whereas in the beginning I was a constant anxious nervous wreck constantly crying!

I went for dinner with my hubby last night and managed a few wines again too ( cdn't do that a month ago) bumped into my cousin and her husband and we chatted and laughed away. Today I feel a bit fragile and a bit down 🥴 as alcohol can be a depressant and it doesnt help my mood when I feel anxious but I just felt like a glass and it is nice now and then to let loose. We deserve it!

I just hate when I'm feeling happy or busy and out of nowhere I get a really horrible thought and the feelings from it can upset me. I know the longer it goes on the more I will get used to it and it will gradually go away through time. I do just leave these thoughts alone but it's the feelings sometimes are so hard to bear. I can only pray it's all wee blips and part of my recovery.

It's just terrible now people stealing other peoples family pets. The world is so corrupt now Kate with all the illegal crimes that are being committed. Animals are kinder than some humans!!

Yeah come the weekend my home is going to be like a doggie day care haha! Myself and my family all stay near each other and weather permitting on Saturday they are coming to mine to meet our new furry 4 legged arrival haha! I have a wonderful garden for pets and my K9 nephews love it!. I draw the line at them leaving their sticks and deposits tho, they'll clear up before leaving the party 😉😂😂

Xx💕

hi kate, been having a few bad days these last few days but maybe self inflicted or a little blip, drunk a bit too much alcohol celebrating the England game ha now paying for it. anxiety is definitely up as always worst in the mornings and clears in the evening just got to keep pushing through i know and hopefully it will pass soon, defo feel as though the anxiety is less intense though like i still can get out and do stuff back in work tomorrow that might help keep my mind busy. is this something you ever experienced when drinking to much ?

Alcohol never affected me when I was taking meds, but I have read it does affect some people. Alcohol is a depressant anyway and interferes with mood regulation, so maybe some people feel this more?

Yes anxiety is always worse in the mornings - it was for me too (I never was a morning person anyway). I always felt better towards the end of the day too. Best thing is to let is be, get on with your morning and don’t question why its like this - it just is (for now).

Hope you didn’t have too much with England’s superb win last night? 😄

yeh thats the problem i had too much hhaha i have had alcohol before on meds and been fine just this time i drank far to much. like you say alcohol is a depressant and it maybe hasnt helprd at all and brought on a blip, hopefully this will slowly clear up like last time. it dosnt feel as intense as last time which lasted most of the day its mainly the morning, hopefully dosnt last a couple of weeks like last time but it just slowly fades till you forget about it. im 5 and a half months on meds so maybe a little longer for me i take fluoxetine and read these can take the longest for people to work but looking where i am not to where i was 5 month ago im a lot better ao im slowly getting there. i think i will leave the drinking for a while now haha.

@Katecogs

Hey Kate, sorry to jump in, I sent you a message last week, this is a wee follow up. Hope youre well?

After my last message I picked up a bit, but Im afraid Ive hit an all time low. Why is it no matter how much we tell ourselves its a setback we still feel we're back to the beginning again and feel as though we wont ever get out of this! Its crazy the feelings this gives off, so damn frightening! I feel like screaming Why!!!! Im just so broken hearted as I feel a part of me is dead and Im grieving for myself to come back. I just want to be myself again.

Only good thing is we got our little puppy and shes ab adorable but shes hard work to say the least! We cant take her out at moment until she has her vacs. So Im stir crazy, as I have to look after her as they are all working!

I was watching her trying to do things that shes not strong enough for yet and my husband said while I eas crying, thats like me. Ive came a long way but Ive overstretched and its nature saying come back a bit, its not time yet! He understands me so much as he just gets me. Im lucky to have such a wonderful husband and soul mate. Its just not fair that we should be enjoying ourselves at our stage in life and this has marred me. I can only pray that my life shall pick up again. Its just a bad stage. Just wanted to tell you

xxx💕

Hi Cairns

Just also celebrated our son's birthday too - both birthdays are days apart, but a 3 year gap.

Sorry you’re having a dip - it does happen at times. When you’re in it, no amount of positive words you tell yourself will have any impact because you just don’t feel ‘inside’ of you.

I felt exactly the same - sometimes I’d get frustrated and just wanted to feel free of how I felt and it did feel like grief I guess.

All that you’ve learnt can still be applied however you feel, and this is the perfect time to carry with it all. Remember that we take anxiety with us as we recover, so it will crop up at times as we recover. However bad it feels, just do whatever you’ve been doing and take those feelings with you, all that fear, don’t shy away from them. Get out and do what you’ve been doing, feel that fear and do it anyway. Its uncomfortable, but nothing will happen.

Setbacks are when we practice - remember, you can’t learn to cycle without having a bike.

It also doesn’t matter what caused the dip so don’t try and fathom that one out. Its there, its temporary, and it’ll go.

Having a bad dip doesn’t mean you’ve gone backwards - it means you’re getting better and anxiety just wanted to have a little shout out again.

You’ve come through this and got this far, and you can do it again. I found my blips would ease a little each day when I did ‘nothing’ about them - just leave it alone.

Life will pick up again - remember, ‘normal’ life is full of ups and downs too and at the moment you overfeel everything.

Your puppy sounds adorable and yes can imagine she’s hard work. Worth it though! You’ll soon be out walking her when she’s able to ❤️

hi kate, about 5 days into this blip now as always worse in the mornings and calm off as the day goes by. just coming up to the start of the 6 month and this is my second bad blip just this time self inflicted due to too much drink but England are on after all, first one came out of no where and lasted about 2 weeks but did feel a lot worse not that this one dosnt feel horrible either. mangaged to get through work i know this is something you just have to ride out again, but like you say does feel like its less intense this time although still not nice. just wondering how many blips you had whilst recovering i know everyone is different and where when you experienced them if you felt shaky and fatigued with irritable stomach. thanks

Hi Nathan

Blips tend to linger because we think too much about them when we’re in them - often when they happen we automatically start that inner dialogue / head chatting and try and work out why, try and stop it, fix it when we should just accept its happened, stop trying to fix it and leave it alone. It will go away.

It was a long time ago when I recovered (around 1996) so can’t remember how many blips I had, but do know they cropped up many times. At the time I didn’t know what they were.

When they happened it was just like the whole anxiety package came back - intrusive thoughts, fear, inward thinking, tearfulness. When they lifted the first thing I’d notice was not being in my head, as if someone had switched the lights back on.

England playing tonight - I hope the celebrations go ok for you. If drinking alcohol, maybe drink water too - and plenty after? I’ll be watching the game too - cider is in the fridge ready 🤗

sorry to jump in here but am new to this forum and feeling really desperate. i have been on 20mg citalopram for 5 months which i take every morning. i also take 15mg mirtazapine at night ti help with sleep. i have had a few good days and ladt week felt really quite positive. however this week i have crashed right diwn with increased anxiety and depression. do you think this is just a blip?

yeh its hard just feels like a continuous cycle thats not going to end but just like you say let it be and it will pass again. the recovery is up and down but when your up you forget and think your back again and go about life as normal and end up over doing it and crash again. think i will take things easy from now just as i recover, but always think is there something else up with me hahaha prob my mind playing tricks on me also struggle with fatigue. is this something you ever struggled with kate? and did you ever thonk there might be something else behind it all

Yes that’s exactly how it feels, and how I felt it too - when having a good spell you feel you’re past it all and can cope with anything, then when back in it you think completely differently and feel you’ll never escape.

Remember when you’re back in it then you will think negatively because you’re looking at life through anxiety - so its just anxiety talking, masking how you’d really think and feel - its your body being over sensitised and this flares up from time to time as you recover.

It is tiring when you have anxiety all the time - it means your body is sensitised and is on constant high alert - and its this that is tiring. This will right itself as you recover.

No I never thought anything else was wrong with me, not until I understood anxiety. Before that I hadn’t a clue what was wrong and my mind conjured up all sorts of mental illnesses which made me feel worse. Once I understood it was anxiety that helped a bit, and then it was just trying to recover from that, but I never worried about my physical health at all.

yeh i completely agree with everything you say and how it all plans out for us as we recover you explain it as it is. it is very tiring and feel at times more mentally fatigued than physical feel as though my head is fried if you get what i mean haha. been starting to pick up a little still not back to were i was but has only just been over a week and my last blip lasted a few weeks and felt much worse, again mornings are a problem but by mid afternoon ive forgotten it. i take vitamin d, b12 and magnesium as well as my meds is there anything ypu used to take to help ?

@KateCogs

Hey Kate,

I'm very sorry for my slow reply, my setback since last week has been horrible to say the least! I'm feel my nerves are on high alert!

No matter where I go and what I do it's there. Ive accepted it and know and understand it's anxiety and I've had lightbulb moments but then only to be brought back down again.

I was out today for coffee and I just cdn't relax. I felt I was in an unreal state of being. I'm just not me!

It's sometimes just too hard to sit there or continue doing what I'm doing and ignore the feeling of fear when it washes over me.

Even if I can ignore it when I'm out, it makes me feel sad and upset afterwards. I would love to come home feeling just normal and not drained. I just want to be me again and feel real again and alive!

Believe me I go about my day as normal and yet I still can't say I'm free from my thoughts yet. They're not with me 24/7 but they can still really scare me when they appear.

Everyone keeps saying I am doing a lot more now, going further afield and I can see that but I still don't feel like myself yet. Inside I'm still feeling uneasy and slightly detached. I've still lost my va va voom. I think it's gonny take longer this time for me to fully recover.

Kate, When you say that you recovered within 6 mths with anxiety, did you mean completely, as you said after 6 mths, each month little things got easier and better. So do you mean you felt you could cope better after 6 mths but still took a while after that to be fully well again. We're your thoughts the last to go?

I'm confused as what is recovery to you? I'm bright enough and chatty enough, I'm showering, doing my hair and make up, going about my daily duties, travelling a good bit more within towns but no matter what, my thoughts come with me as you know. There are times they're not as bad but they are still there.

Is this recovery happening Kate, my Mum and hubby say it def is but I still feel captured by it yet. Mum said she felt all of these emotions and fears. She always wondered how it would go away but she said it just did but it was so slow that she wasnt aware of it until she realised the thoughts didn't bother her anymore but it did take a long time.

I'm going back to work in 2 weeks, it won't be easy but I have to try.

I still feel my soul has been robbed but at times I can feel it's trying to come back.

My wee puppy is certainly keeping me going, she's brilliant tho I'm exhausted 😴 I cdn't have done this 7 mths ago. Maybe once I'm able to take her walks in August it'll help give me more focus on getting out there more and taking in more hillwalking.

Anyway I'm off on another break next week down towards the coastline ( see I'm still off traveling 😊) so hopefully our weather will be good 🤞

I am grateful for all your kind words of wisdom and advice which I read over when I'm going through a bad spell and I agree with all you have said, I'm just so fed up and frustrated as I want to be free of this.

Xx💕

Hi Cairns

Sorry you’re going through this difficult patch.

I think what happens is that we are still looking for relief. I did the same - I’d go about my day and all the time I’d unknowingly still be expecting some kind of relief and then get despondent when it didn’t happen.

Going further afield is great and taking those feelings with you, but I do think you’re still looking for that relief.

Acceptance means accepting all feelings day after day, week after week, trying to not get upset how you feel and to not look for relief.

Its like you live with those feelings, take them with you, get used to those feelings, and don’t care about those feelings - that true acceptance.

Yes I recovered within 6 months - that for me meant the crippling anxiety had left me which meant the intrusive thoughts stopped. Yes at 6 months I could cope better and I felt back to normal again, and yes the thoughts were the last symptom to disapper for me.

The following months after I’d recovered I just felt even much more at peace and happier.

Yes my recovery was slow and I wondered how it would ever go away completely, as I only had to think of my thoughts and I’d feel highly anxious. What I didn’t realise was that as the anxiety calms down the thoughts do too and finally they won’t produce the anxious feelings when you think of them once recovered. Because they don’t have that same impact, they are put to the back of the mind.

I must admit, it did take a long time for me to fully understand what acceptance was. I often thought I’d got it, then I’d lose focus on what it was and despaired, and finally certain words resonated with me.

I’ll see if I can find the paragraphs I highlighted from the books which made an impact on me.

Your puppy sounds fabulous - I bet as exhausting as having children around! 😄

Have a lovely week - its meant to be a heatwave down here in the South next week so hopefully it will be for you too.

I know that bad spell you’re going through - and often looking back it isn’t lasting as long as you think compared to the time you’ve been feeling well. It just seems like its taking forever.

K x

@katecogs

hey kate,

ive been doing much better but something i cant seem to shake is this feeling of being trapped in my head? any spare minute in my day i seem to ruminate over how im feeling and then it brings on those unpleasant feelings. im better at letting it wash over me without reacting but this intense feeling of being trapped in my own mind is scaring me. i was wondering if this was something you or anyone else could resonate with? it sounds like a strange thing and a hard thing to describe but its bothering me as its something i feel i cant escape from.

thanks!

megan

Hi Megan

Yes thats a very common feeling and one I had too. It is just being aware of how you feel, being watchful all the time and just means that when your body is still sensitised then your focus will always be on yourself. As you recover this does stop as your interest starts looking outwards and at life again.

As with anxiety and intrusive thoughts, just leave it be. Don’t try escaping from this awareness as it will leave you in time. The more you try and escape the more you’ll be aware.

However you feel, don’t ruminate about it. Just understand its part of the anxiety condition so just let it be there (being aware of it) and try not to worry or head chat about it. It will go as you recover.

dear katecogs

i have been reading all your posts trying to get reassurance as i am scared of my feelings at the moment. i have been in 20mg citalopram for 6 months and am really struggling with anxiety and very low mood. its not constant and had a full week not long ago when i felt a lot brighter. my thoughts are all over the place at the moment not sure whether to change dose change meds or just push through. any advice from you or anyone else who has had similar experiences would be much appreciated.

Hi Letty - sorry just realised I hadn’t replied to you. Having periods of feeling brighter usually happens as you recover - these will come and go.

One of the things that keeps us in the anxiety cycle is being afraid of how we feel and think, as this fear then creates even more anxiety (the very thing we’re trying to recover from).

The Citalopram helps break this cycle as it calms the body and the anxiety, and this then calms our thoughts.

Your thoughts will be erratic at the moment as this is caused by anxiety and an anxious mind. Its best to try and just let those thoughts comes and go, but don’t try and analyse them or head chat with them (all the what if’s, why etc). Leave them alone.

If it were me I’d continue on the 20mg - it wouldn't hurt to chat with your doctor too and discuss increasing a little if you feel you still need to after another month or so? - it does take a very long time to feel better and those brighter periods will happen more often.

K 😃

thank you so much for your kind words- i do have a gp appointment this friday to discuss meds. but im really scared of going through all the side effects again if iincrease as i seem to have experiened everything under the sun. i think i might push on for a couple more months and hope that there are some brighter days ahead. i really appreciate everything you say and find it a great comfort to know that there are others out there suffering with the same illness. much love to you xxxx

hi kate, i did start to pick up from my blip and as if i was getting over it again like you said and just like last time it just slowly faded away and stopped thinking about it. but unfortunately i have contracted covid although luckily my symptoms are mild i cant help to feel weird or as if my anxiety is back due to the fact i have covid or my brain and anxiety is tricking me to think i have it or scaring me not nice. hopefully i will pick up again soon and feel better again qhen im negative

Hi Letty

You may not get bad side effects as you did in the beginning because you’re already on the meds - often the increase side effects is short lived and not as severe, though of course we each differ.

You could ask for a 5mg increase for some weeks before adding in another 5mg so the impact is less? Worth discussing with your doctor.

Hi Nathan

Yes knew the blip would pass - though really sorry you’ve got Covid (though glad to hear symptoms are mild).

I’m guessing having Covid then you’re bound to feel anxious about this anyway, but when your body is fighting any virus it will leave you a bit flat, so guessing you’re feeling this as anxiety?

It will pass as you recover. Just get better from Covid, look after yourself and the anxiety will pass too.

K x

hi kate

ivee been feeling a little brighter today so think i might just persevere with the 29mg for a couple more months but will definitely speak to the doctor about a snall increase in dosage if i dont see any improvement by then. thanks fir the advice kate you are a god sendxxx

hi kate

i forgot to mention that i also take 15mg mirtazapine at night to help with sleep issues. im worried now that this could be i interfering with the citalopram? im not sure my doctor would increase my citalopram? another bad day yesterday waking up in a massive panic which eased off as the day went on. i have 2mg diazepam to take if needed but im really too frightened to take them

hi kate, thank you! its crazy that just talking to yourself who has been through this horrible journey can help so much at hard times and its awesome you have time for everyone never stop this for the next people suffering your great. ive also been struggling sleeping at night and waking dehydrated but i sure thats down to this incredible heat ive tried everything haha. also just changed brand of medication and not sure if thats done anything or im just thinking on it is this something you ever experienced? and also would you say 6 month for your recovery was quick i read it can take anywhere from there to 10-12 month?

hi again kate hope you are well, sorry to pester you last i spoke ive recently just got over a blip, and now not even a good week im back in a massive blip maybe my worst yet so soon after just having one. maybe having covid hasn't help and been a trigger, but i have also started new brand fluoxetine and bot sure there working as well. ive been on them 6 months now at 20mg and still having blips just wondering if i should speak to my doctor and see about cbt therapy or upping my meds. would of thought 6 months is well into it now and dont want to keep going back and forth with this feeling its always worse in the morning and gone by evening its hard and like i say feels the worst yet and should be getting better. scared of upping meds to go through the sides again. what do you think or should i hold out a little longer ?

Hi Nathan

You’re not pestering me at all - happy to help.

I’m sure a lot has to do with having Covid. Give yourself time to recover from that and I’m sure the blip will follow too.

A lot of people do find a change of medication brand seems to affect them. Ask the pharmacist if you can have the original brand or if they can find another that stocks them. You can check if they are the same by the P/L number on the side of the box (if you have the previous box). If different numbers then there is a slight change.

I’d hold out a bit longer - give yourself time to recover from Covid first and ask about the brand of medicine.

hi kate, yeh im sure covid defo hasnt helped thats for sure so i will see this out and hopefully the blip will go as well then go from there. yeh crazy to think a change of brand can have an effect when its basically same medication im gona ring doctor and see if i can get another prescription. ive been on 20mg fluoxetine about a little way through the 6th month now and dont want to still feel these big blips, i know you say you were recovered at 6 month and everyone is different not sure if want to increase but if i need to i will. i was also going to try cbt ive heard thats just as good as medication

@KateCogs

Hey Kate

Thank You always for your kind words of wisdom. I hope your well 😊

Well I'm just back from having a good few days away down the coast and a lot of driving but it was ab glorious in taking in the scenic spots! I felt a lot better than I had from the previous week. Felt more naturally like myself and hadn't really thought of my anxiety as much at all. Only a couple of times my thoughts were uncomfortable but then it passed over. I Def did feel stronger from the last time I was away a few wks ago. Met up with old friends over dinner and drinks too which was lovely.

I do agree with you that I've always been looking for relief and reassurance when I should just be completely accepting the way it is and then hopefully that's when relief shall naturally happen. I think it's habitual tho just trying to find that reassuring glimmer of peace and hope.

My hubby is away camping overnight with friends this week and I'm feeling quite strange, frightened and anxious without him. He's been by my side and my rock (always) but esp since I became ill for 7 months now. I'm not alone as my daughter and our wee dog are at home with me.

I do go out without him a lot from day to day and do my own thing but I just feel so on my own with him being away. I feel more exposed if you get what I mean.

Still, I must be gettin better tho as I remember my sister used to come round and keep me company when he would go to the pub for a pint back in January. I wouldn't go out or do anything. I was terrified to move.

Instead tho I went out for a girly dinner last night with my family and we did have a good laugh.

I can sense right away Kate when a setback is working on me as the day before I feel too high and cheery and very chatty. It's like climbing a hill and stumbling back down again.

Im suddenly very frightened and emotional today over everything and anything, my thoughts, and the feelings from them are overwhelming me, I just feel very nervy and jumpy and tired. I feel I don't even want to take the dog out as I feel I'm dragging my legs and I'm too anxious to talk to anyone I meet.

I know it's the blip in my recovery and not me as I just have to look back to a few months ago and see how forward I've came. I have to go out tho as my wee doggy can't cross her legs all day 😂😂😂

I'm due back at work tomorrow and I was looking forward to it until I felt this blip. It's put a dark cloud over me now and filled me with dread. I am leaving the thoughts alone, I'm just upset that it's stole my positive outlook I had last week.

I will still go to work tho as the difference being that I have to for many reasons and to prove to myself, so maybe that's the kick in the butt that I need.

Recovery is there in many many ways for me. I do beat myself up when at times I should be saying Bravo for what I've accomplished in such a short time. I hope my setbacks will start to be further apart. My hubby says my good days are a lot more than my bad days now qnd Im doing more too. Pity we dont see it that way.

A lot of people on this forum think that 6 or 7 months is very long in recovery as I did too once, before I realised how broken I had become. I know it's going to take another good few months or even longer till I feel myself completely well again...that I have accepted. If we didn't suffer the pain that comes with recovery we would be more patient and less doubtful and scared.

My son broke his collarbone a while back Kate and was told that it would take around 6 months to mend but a full year before he would stop feeling aches and pains from it. He still can't participate in any of the physical sports due to causing further damage. Basically part of his life is on hold at moment. I overheard him saying to his Dad " every month it's getting better but I wish the healing process wasn't as painful." He said to me " My breakage has affected me the same as you Mum only mine is physical and yours is mentally, we've both had to sacrifice things in our life due to recovery and suffer pain along the way."....so so true!

Anyway I shall let you know how things have gone, I just wish I'd stop feeling scared and strangely shaky....of nothing.

Hope you're enjoying our Mediterranean weather, I Def think God works in mysterious ways. A lot of us are refraining from going abroad due to Covid so God has brought the good weather to us. A lot of our outback and coastlines are just as beautiful esp when the sun is shining ☀️ 🥰 xx

Hi Cairns

Sounds like you had a wonderful time away and so glad to hear all went well with you 😃

When I was ill I used to hate being on my own and would freak out when my hubby was away. I even used to hate being on my own and luckily shared an office with someone, but when she left I was on my own which I hated. Looking back though this was avoidance and working with anxiety as I eventually did you also have to be in situations which were once avoided.

I think my fear of being on my own was that I just didn’t trust myself, though I don’t know what that was.

Also coming back from holiday most people feel flat anyway, being back in familiar surroundings and the same routine, so when you have anxiety you’re going to feel this as anxiety, being emotional and dread etc. Don’t be fooled by these feelings - its just normal feelings but exaggerated at the moment.

As PD says, don’t wait to feel well to do something - do it whilst you have those feelings, take them with you, leave them alone, don’t head chatter about them. They will go.

Same for work - don’t head talk yourself into ‘I’m not feeling good’ etc - take the dread with you, you’ve dealt with this before and you can again. Its just a feeling, just as feeling happy is.

There is no set time for recovery - yes it does seem people generally take 6 months (less / more) but recovery will take as long as it wants. Putting a time frame on recovery will make you stressed, disappointed, tense and probably anxious. Yes it is mentally we have to recover from but its also physically too. Your body is sensitised, tired, hyperaware … and its this that the body will be recovering from too.

Here’s a little something I read which resonates how we ‘accept’ our thoughts.

“An intrusive thought is a thought that comes and goes. You have no power over it. Memories, experiences and things around your surroundings will brings thoughts up. There’s nothing you can do.

*Thinking is engaging with a thought - this is 100% within your control.

*

When struggling with anxiety your thinking might be what if I’m going crazy, what if something is really wrong with me, will I always be like this, what if, what if …….

Do you ever have intrusive thoughts about chocolate - what about crisps? Why not?

Yes you do have thoughts about them but you never ‘engage’ with them - because they don’t have value to you.

*But when you choose to engage in intrusive anxiety ridden thoughts, they come back. *

If you just leave the what-if thinking and all the others alone and do nothing, the intrusive thoughts will go away. By engaging with that intrusive thought you’ve told your brain that the thought was important. Therefore your brain registers that intrusive thought and sends it again.

A big part of recovery is taking ownership over what you choose to engage with and what not to.

*So we can’t eliminate the intrusive thought but we can choose to not engage with it. The same works for feelings too - no engaging with any of the feelings. Leave them alone, no more what ifs, why, oh my, I don’t like this, I’m scared of it …….. and this means you steps out of the way and stop adding more anxiety onto the feelings and intrusive thought, and enables your body to calm and heal. The feelings and thoughts will go away - so stop engaging with them which keeps it all recycling”.

*

So no, we can’t make things go away but we need to learn to let them live alongside us until they go away naturally (with no engaging).

The same for going to work tomorrow - don’t engage with the dread feeling. Leave it alone, take it with you tomorrow, pack it up in your bag along with your lunch, take it to work, pop it in your desk and leave it alone 😃 Don’t forget to take it home with you too or it might grumble 😄 But don’t wait to feel well to do anything. Yes it will feel uncomfortable, but we need these feelings to be present in order for them to go (if that makes sense).

Yes recovery is like climbing a hill and rolling back down, over and over this will happen, so when a blip crops up try not to think dam, here it is again, but instead think this is my body helping me to recover and this blip is necessary.

Being on your own might fill you with dread but again, let those feelings be there, don’t engage with them (head chat) and carry on. It won’t bring you relief, but over much time it will bring about the calmness we all so desire.

Take your little dog for a walk even if you feel you don’t want. Drag those legs out and even go further than you intend to. No head chatter. If you do meet someone, I know you feel anxious but even a smile and a good evening is something. Remember - do things with the those feelings there - that is the way through.

As you’ve discovered, those feelings disappear on their own without any forcing them away because you’ve probably unknowingly stopped the head chatter about them.

Don’t even wish for your setbacks to be further apart - let it all be. Don’t even wish to stop feeling scared and shaky - let it all happen, don’t head chat about it and it will ease. To wish for all that means thats not acceptance.

Yes your son is right - recovering from any physical ailment or break, takes a long time. Its not just his bone but its all the soft tissue, bruising and then being able to move the limb again. It can take an age - and this is the same with the anxiety condition.

……. and …… I bet your son doesn’t head chat (engage) with his ailment ‘when will my bone heal, I don’t like this, I’ll stay at home today, will I always be like this’ ………. I know physical is different from mental, but you can apply the same 😄 😄

Mmmmmm no I don’t enjoy this hot weather, as its been way to oppressive. At 32° it was really uncomfortable but its back down to 24 today yay!!! I’m off to Suffolk for a few days next week, sadly not a holiday but a family funeral. Its always much cooler on the East coast so I’ll be welcoming the stiff breeze!!!

Yes I don’t miss going abroad for a holiday - as you say there’s so many beautiful places in the UK to visit, rain too 😄 I love a good walk along the promenade in all weathers. We’re very lucky in this day and age as people never used to holiday and it was only the rich Victorians who ‘took in the air’ on the coast.

Hi Letty

Sorry, forgot to reply!

Yes Mirtazapine is a good meds and many people take it alongside their SSRI meds, so I don’t think it will be interferring with the meds.

It really does take a long time before you start feeling more at ease with yourself and symptoms start dimishing, and you will unfortunately get waves of anxiety, panic and other symptoms whilst your body adapts. Its such a pain I know.

Diazepam is good and helps take the edge off when you’re having a really bad time.

Feeling worse in the morning is quite typical of this condition - it usually wears off during the day.

Its very hard not to be scared of these feelings, and I know you can’t just stop being afraid of how you feel, but it is definitely our reaction that drives this condition. Bizarre isn’t it.

You’ve heard of the saying ‘facing your fears’ … well that’s exactly how it works. When we have panic, anxiety or any other symptom we automatically freak out, our mind goes into overdrive and all this makes it worse. By just letting the feelings happen without adding on ‘what if’, ‘why’, ‘oh no’, etc etc and carrying on with whatever we’re doing at the time we feel like this, this actually starts to retrain the brain telling it that this is ok and not a threat. It really does work.

The medicine does exactly the same - it helps us to slowly calm down, the symptoms slowly stop happening and in turn our mind-set changes.

We all look for immediate relief from anxiety and panic, but recovery doesn’t work like that - you cannot stop this overnight. It takes many, many months for recovery to slowly happen and along the way you will have waves of the symptoms returning.

This is not a lifelong condition and we can all recover from this - either with meds, the right mind-set, therapy or whatever works for you, and above all complete understanding of anxiety. If you don’t understand whats happening to you or how anxiety works, how recovery works, then it’ll feel like a complete maze.

hi kate

My turn to forget to reply this time! Thank you so much for your advice. Im going to keep on my present dose on cit for a while longer as i am definitely getting some good days though i nearly always wake up feeling really anxious which leads me to feeling a bit defeated but i usually start to feel better as the day goes on.

I really wouldnt wish this on my worst enemy. sorry that ive been pestering you but i find great comfort from your words. xx

Hi Letty

That’s how recovery works - you’ll get odd times where you’ll feel good and this grows into days and weeks. Those good times come and go in waves and slowly get longer until the anxiety has gone. During this time you will probably still wake up feeling anxious, and this is normal, and yes the day gets better. This happened to me too and I began to look forward to my evenings as that’s when I felt better.

When you wake full of anxiety try to accept this is how it is for now and this is recovery. Let it be, don’t analyse it and take it with you without question. Your day will improve.

But yes, your dose sounds like its working - remember, it does take a very long time, so keep on with it.

I used to say the same - I wouldn’t wish it on my worst enemy.

You’re absolutely not pestering me - I’m happy to help ❤️

thank you for your encouraging words kate. its so good to hear from someone who understands. i hope you dont mind if i check in with you from time to time when i feel i need some support?

No I don't mind at all - message whenever ❤️

hi kate. just coming up to six and a half months on 20mg cit. i have had a few good days recently and dont think my gp would up my dose as i am 66 (i dont want to anyway really). do you think the meds are just taking a long time to work completely for me and that i should keep perservering on my present dose? i think you have said that the meds can take a very long time to work?

how are you by the way?

Hi Letty

That’s good you’ve had some more good days - I’m sure this will happen over and over for a while yet and you’ll probably still get a few blips mixed in too, but those good days should increase.

Its best to not look at the end result because we don’t know how long this will take for each of us, but instead just look at how each month you feel a tiny bit better. Recovery often peels off in layers (like an onion), tiny bit by tiny bit mixed with bad times too.

Recovery takes as long as it takes - there’s no set time really. As said, don’t look for the end result but just how you are now compared to as was.

I think 20mg is a good dose and I think you should give these at least a year.

I’m very well thanks - just the usual aches and pains we all seem to get 😕

@katecogs - could you send me the link to the book please ?

Also can i ask your advice please?

I have taken citalopram 10mg twice before, and it worked, but i cannot remember when it started working.

I am week 7, had awful side effects and just started eating properly again, morning wrenching, heightened anxiety and the odd day feeling flat. None of these i had before taking apart from anxiety which i wanted to head off at the pass before getting any worse. Constantly thinking how i am, causing palpitations almost by constantly thinking about them ...do not know whether to increase the dose or just push on !!

Hi Sam

I’m unable to send any links because this site has disbanded the messaging system and they don’t allow links posted here on the forum either (gah)!!! You could search for me on Google and contact me (some people have found me that way) and that way and I’ll be able to pass the links to you.

Yes I’ve taken Citalopram twice before too, and found the second time I had different symptoms, and it took longer to recover - also second time round my anxiety played out differently too - that time round I was completely flat for many months which I didn’t get first time.

Week 7 is early days and little signs start happening first ie like your eating properly.

Anxiety has a whole host of symptoms and not everyone gets them all and they often don’t repeat themselves with future flare ups and it can feel different.

But whatever symptoms you have, they should all be treated the same and not separate each one individually. They’re all anxiety, however it manifests itself.

If 10mg has worked for you before then I’d carry on as you are for now - increasing won’t give you instant relief anyway and you’ll still have to go through these symptoms.

Don’t try and stop your symptoms because they’re like quicksand - the more you struggle the more you’ll get stuck. Just leave the symptoms to play out - its just built up adrenaline needing an escape. Try not to analyse the feelings even though they’re constantly on your mind - just leave be, take them with you and just know they will diminish over time as you recover.

The links I have talk more of this and you can recover this way without meds, though using meds alongside this is fine too and something I did.

But keep persevering - it can take many, many months.

@katecogs

Thank you for the reply. Sometimes you just need someone to say ...this is all going to be fine ! You begin comparing yourself to others who say after 4 weeks my life changed and you actually forget the progress you have made.

Yes very true - and when you’re in the midst of anxiety you can’t see the wood for the trees as anxiety masks it.

Its only natural to compare notes with some else and seeing others recover quicker can be discouraging. We’re all different though and we all take different times, and each person’s journey will be unique for them.

Let recovery take as long as it want - you can’t hurry it anyway and it’ll come to you when its ready.

My first time on meds took 6 months and the second time was about 9 months - it got easier throughout that time though. If yours takes less time or longer, then let it.

K x

hi kate

thanks for your reply. i will be patient with my recovery and take each day as it comes. thanks again for your support.

tell me about those aches and pains!

hi again kate,hope you are well. been doing a little better recently still struggle now and again with the bumps in the road and the normal morning anxiety which does fade as the day goes on. i have just started cbt to see if it helps over the final hurdle been on flux for 6 months now and not putting a time scale on it i will be better when im better, the cbt has a good was of explaining it all and a good one was them boom and bust that really how ive been haha. also just a question have you ever taken ashawgandha supplement to help along the way ? thanks

Hi Nathan

Yes thanks I’m very well 😄

That’s so good to hear - yes that’s exactly how it feel when recovering - its an up and down affair. That morning anxiety does fade as the day wears on - it took me a while to discover that myself and I began looking forward to the evening as thats when I felt really good - only for it to repeat itself the next day and the next. Its like Groundhog Day lol.

Glad CBT is helpful for you 😄

No I’ve never taken Ashawgandha - I’ve seen it in health food shops and read about it though. I understand it can help with energy, mood, libido and general well being, and that you can take it alongside SSRI’s (do check with your Doctor or Pharmacist though to be sure). I’ve read it can give gastric issues as it irritates some people, but take it with milk or honey to help line the stomach.

hi, oh thats good 🙂. yeh the boom and bust is where you feel your a bit better one day then push yourself to the limit then short rest and repeat this then knocks you to a setback or blip, its about being kind to yourself like you say and not rushing just let it be and ypu will be better when your time comes. they have told my to practice lots of mindfulness and meditation thats something i stopped doing when i felt a bit better but i should of really carried on as it does help. juat feel if i could get over the final hurdle and combat this morning anxiety i will start to be gets thrown the end of it, the evnings for me i almost feel back to myself then repeats everyday. ive not been sleeping well with vivid dreams and being a light sleeper i know this wont help so need to also get on top of that.

Oh yes that does happen often - as its usually stress that caused anxiety in the first place, when they feel better they go off and continue burning the candle at both ends, the body can’t cope and knocks you backwards.

I’ve definitely changed my lifestyle since having anxiety - I no longer push myself, make sure I get my sleep, and try not to get into stressful situations anymore. I no longer rush from A to B and it never surprises me seeing so many people speeding by, fingers drumming on the steering wheel as they dash somewhere. Me …… I take my time, listen to soothing classical music and enjoy the ride.

Yes you actually start recovering when you stop trying to recover and obsess about it. Don’t try getting over the final hurdle - the morning anxiety will sort itself out if you leave it alone. For me, that was the final symptom to disappear for me. Enjoy your evenings, expect a bad morning, go with it and don’t fret about it when you wake yet again full of anxiety. It will go in its own time - you can’t stop it and fretting about it is fruitless.

When I found it hard to get to sleep I’d try not to sleep - I’d go to bed, settle down and then just try and keep my eyes half open. They closed before I realised. Also I took melatonin which is the sleep hormone - it helped me get a good nights sleep.

You can get them over the counter.

@Katecogs

Hey Kate

Well I've been back at work now for 6 wks. I thought I'd wait till now to let you know how I'm progressing and I must say I'm glad to be back. So far I've felt ok, I'm so busy when Im in my job and I'm able to have a laugh with my colleagues that it distracts me from my thoughts, even when I'm working on my own.

I do feel sometimes tho, I can feel flat when I come home as I can't help but feel the anxiety/thoughts creep back in the moment I sit down and relax.

I have progressed a good bit tho, my anxiety isn't necessarily in the mornings anymore, It tends to be a momentarily thing like when I take myself out of my comfort zone I feel scared, almost weepy and I feel back to the beginning again. I carry on regardless tho but it's not a feeling I can ignore as it's there, it can't be switched off. If I could do that so easily then I wdnt be suffering from intrusive thoughts.

I can't seem to feel enthusiastic or look forward to anything at moment and this saddens me as I'm normally a bubbly person but I just feel so flat. I just can't force it. I'm going out further afield now and socialising more but sometimes it's just all too much for me. I can't handle music at moment and I normally love my music but it represents feeling good to me and because I don't feel like that at moment it nearly kills me.

My illness has been a major breakdown and it will take a long time until I'm fully recovered. I can see and feel recovery but I just wish the thoughts would go, that's what's making me so miserable. I have become so used to taking them with me, when I'm busy they're not there but the moment I go out to enjoy myself they are there. I know It's my conscience keeping me on guard waiting for something to frighten me and give me that feeling that the thoughts give off. One day hopefully I'll go out and they'll be gone.

(It happened like this 20 yrs ago)

My Mum keeps reminding me that she doesn't know what makes them go away, but they just do but the sufferer doesn't know they have until one day you just realise your not frightened anymore and you feel free.

How simple it would be if we could just flick a switch to switch them off.

Anyway I hope your well Kate 💕

@katecogs

I meant to say Kate, its not the thoughts its the feelings they give off when Im out socialising that frightens me. Then when I do overcome the thoughts and the ill feeling and become comfortable it latches on to another situation. I just hope my confidence grows eventually and then I can kick them well and truly in the arse! haha! 😂😂 💕xx

hi kate

sorry but its me again looking for reassurance. after a few good days i am having an awful week, waking every morning with heightened anxiety which almost instantly makes me feel really low. i am finding this whole road to recovery totally exhausting at the moment. i am on my own a lot during the day which doesnt help. after 7 months on cit i thought i should be having more periods of feeling better. apologies but im feeling a bit sorry for myself at the moment.

i hope you are well?

@katecogs

Hi kate,

its been a good while since i have been on here speaking with you/emailing you. i must say i have come a long way since then. its been 3 and a half months since i started citalopram, i made the final step up 2-3 weeks ago from 15mg to 20mg as i feel this was the dose i recovered on the first time. The past week i have been having flashing of bad anxiety again, mainly the intrusive thoughts and my anxiety is worse in the evening? i know logcially that this must be due to the increase i have made but doesnt make it any less frightening. i know you have said recovery is up and down and this is the worst its been for a little while now. although, when i think back to how bad i was 3 months ago i can see that i period where i dont think about it at all even days, i sleep better and thoughts dont always bother me. however, weridly the same thoughts have started bugging me again. its always in the evening. it doesnt seem to last as long and they come in waves as opposed to fairly constant like they used to be. in back to overthinking and overfeeling everything around me again which is exhausting. im hoping its possible that all of this will eventually go. over all i am doing better, im just hoping this is just a blip and the negative thoughts are part of that - its just difficult!

hope you are well!

Megan x

Hi Cairns

Fabulous you’re back working - and so good to hear you’re glad to be back. Its often not so daunting when we’re actually back and its good getting back to normal routine.

I was speaking to someone else recently about this feeling flat and said I’d read this is called the Let Down Effect.

Often after you’ve come through anxiety you can be left with this flat feeling and the explanation is this:

When we’re anxious our body constantly activates the fight or flight constantly, pumping adrenaline round our body and not getting much chance to catch a break. Because our body has been hyperstimulated all the time, when we start recovering the stress hormones will start to decrease and we experience this flat (let-down) feeling, because we’re not receiving those powerful stimulants in the same dosage as we were.

So as we recover the let down symptoms can feel as extreme sadness and so our body needs time to readjust to get used to these physiological changes.

This often happens at the end of your recovery when your body is returning to pre-anxiety levels of stress hormones.

I think sometimes we can get concerned about feeling like this when we just need to give ourselves much more time for this final hurdle.

The thoughts are a symptom of anxiety and guess habit too, and though you’re feeling so much better there’s still more room for much improvement. And yes your mum is right, they do just go away when you don’t realise.

But do keep working at acceptance of them - when a thought comes pay little regard to it and carry on with whatever you’re doing at the time. Don’t go back over it, just carry on.

I used to think - just switch them off - but that switch will happen.

Yes those feelings can latch onto something else - mine used to. Remember, they’re all the same and its just anxiety. Everything just boils down to anxiety, that nasty feeling. That feeling is the same whatever thought you have even though sometimes it can feel worse. Treat it the same - pay as little regard to it as possible and carry on with whatever you’re doing.

K x

Hi Letty

I forget - is this your first or second time on meds?

Its never easy - it is a tough road to recover and always exhausting.

Whenever we have a bad time, all those previous good feelings go straight out the window. Again you just need to try and let those feelings and thoughts come and don’t get into the mind game with it ie all those ‘what if’s’. Leave it alone and let those feelings just play out.

Some people take much longer than others.

Sometimes when you’re recovering you may have a really bad week and then things seem to turn around the next. I know that happened to me - was ticking a long ok-ish for many months, had a bad time and then it all turned around and I felt even better.

K x

Hi Megan

Increasing your dose. will heighten symptoms for a while, it always seems to. It should settle. No it doesn’t make it less frightening even when you expect it.

The thoughts are bugging you again because anxiety has been heightened - those thoughts are a side effect of anxiety - when anxiety is high those thoughts will feel stronger and when the anxiety calms again the thoughts will ease off.

Again when those thoughts come just let them, and try not to get into analysing them. Leave them alone, let them be present, don’t head chat them and get on with your day taking all that chitty chat nonsense with you. Its like having a hurricane passing overhead - whilst the storm rages you don’t question it, but take it with you, get on in life and over time that storm will peter out. By ‘engaging’ with it we just keep that storm rolling round a little more. It isn’t easy I know.

So yes, the negative thoughts are all part of it the blip. Remember, an anxious mind will produce anxious thoughts an a happy mind will produce happy thoughts. At the moment the flavour is anxiety, but they will get calmer as the anxiety eases again.

K x

hi kate, sorry i haven't replied for a while ive been keeping busy and been busy overall but also been feeling slightly better. its as if id started to forget about it although its still there , i do feel however im over thinking on when my next blip/setbck is as ive not had one for a while like and elastic band stretching and strengthening and then snap. im still checking in with my cbt and talking and try there ways to deal with it which do help. as other have said i do sort of feel a lot flatter again even though ive feel slightly better if that makes sense.

Hi Nathan

That’s great you’re starting to feel slightly better - this is how it worked for me too, getting involved in things and then realising I hadn’t thought of ‘it’ for a while. This will slowly creep in more and more.

Setbacks can be a pain, though if you try to not fight them, let them happen, know they're temporary, let the thoughts happen without adding on anymore head chatter to it all, they will pass. Knowing your way out of them makes going into them less fearful.

The flatness is quite common and often happens towards the end of recovering - its because our body has been on high alert with adrenaline (anxiety) so much, that as we recover the adrenaline isn’t released as much and our body feels it as being flat. It will in time find the normal level and you’ll feel better.

hi kate hope you are well, not been on here for a while just for the simple fact ive been doing good again keeping busy with work and social. just recently i had a little blip but this time was different was more of an anxiety attack that lasted not the long but now i feel that i had took a little step back and gained some anxiety back more so in the mornings like it was but as usual gone by the evening. maybe it is a normal blip and because ive not had one for a while ( 6-7 weeks) i forgot what they were like. i think i will put it down to over doing it as i was feeling better so i ignored that i had been ill and should still take it easy. on month 8 now of flux hopefully this is what you were on about the blips get less, last a lost less and have a bigger break in between. now to get myself back on track practice mindfulness and be kind to myself knowing im still recovering.

Hi Nathan

Glad to hear you’ve been doing well.

Blips can crop up occasionally, but that doesn’t mean they’ll keep coming. It could be you’ve been a bit stressed maybe and this little blip is just an excess of adrenaline - or, it could have just happened.

Whatever feelings / symptoms crop up it can feel alarming because we forget what it feels like, but whatever you’re feeling just let it happen and don’t get into the head chatter debate of oh no, not again, am I ill again etc etc. No you’re not ill again, these things can happen. So the best thing to do is not to engage with it, let it be, accept something has spiked (may not be caused by anything but a past memory of feelings) and just get on with your day. Take the feeling with you and don’t engage.

Yes you may feel a bit nervy in the morning for a few days or so (week or so even) but again just accept this, don’t engage, leave it alone and carry on. The reason you’re feeling this in the morning is because the anxiety spike has just triggered the body back into the old habit again.

Yes the blips do get less intense and last for less time as we recover - and you can get the odd one after you’ve recovered but they will stop coming in time.

The reason we get worse when anxiety strikes is because its our automatic response to stop it, try and prevent it, avoid it, run away, head chat constantly as we try and figure it out and fix it. All that does is makes it worse and sucks us into the anxiety cycle.

We therefore have to do the opposite and leave it alone and don’t engage. It takes time for this is lose momentum but it will. So if we leave well alone our body will heal itself - but if we keep adding on head chat, trying to fix etc etc all that does is adds more anxiety on.

You’re right - I guess you’ve probably overdone it a bit and its just flared a bit. Though you’ve almost recovered your body is still a bit susceptible to anxiety at the mo and so you need to take care of yourself and take things easy.

I know I’m prone to anxiety and have changed my lifestyle and take life much slower now. I don’t have to go around like this all the time but am aware if I’ve pushed myself too much.

So yes you’re still recovering and its good you’ve come to realise you need to just be kind to yourself still.

This blip will pass 😃

hi kate hope your well, sorry for my very slow reply haha this always seems to be when im doing good. i have been doing good and like i said last time just feeling like im waiting for the next blip, but the last one i had was 8weeks between the last and hopefully they keep getting longer and less intense Inbetween which i feel they have. ive still been doing cbt and my scores have come right down from the start so definitely making improvements, she made a good point in saying my body can get anxiety and excitement mixed up which i feel is true as going to stuff i enjoy can feel a bit anxious but its actually excitement your body is misinterpreted.

Hi Nathan

I’m sometimes slow to reply too 😄 Glad you’re doing well at the moment.

We often look out for the next blip because we’re still frightened of them - when instead if we understood the acceptance method we’d slowly come to not fear them and even start to welcome them (oh yes) ……. that’s something I experienced, because you want to practice what you’ve learnt.

Thats good your CBT scores have come down and making improvements - you can feel that in yourself because you’ve been feeling good lately too.

That’s interesting about the body gets anxiety and excitement mixed up - I guess thats true because they both raise the heart beat and cause the tummy to flutter. I think the difference is that the anxiety causes us to have negative thoughts too whereas excitement makes us feel light and happy.

If a blip does crop up remind yourself its part of recovery, try and let it just happen without any interference from you. Let it be - don’t try and stop it and don’t get into a head debate with all the oh no’s, what if, here we go again etc. Don’t engage with it, get on with life, take it with you, and because you pay little regard to it then it will fizzle out. Truly it will.

Whatever you feel in a blip (head fog, dizziness, fear, dread, intrusive thoughts, rapid pulse, detachment etc etc) are all symptoms of anxiety. Don’t separate any symptom or try and work out why you have it - they’re all under one umbrella - anxiety (just as a cough and runny nose happen with a cold).

These symptoms go when anxiety goes - they don’t need any individual treatment. Accept whatever happens, don’t engage, know its anxiety ……. it will go.

Glad you’re doing well. Those blips will slowly stop happening in time.

K x

Hi Kate

This is my first time on this forum. Found it by accident (or providence). Not sure if it is still active. Am also a Citaloprim consumer with all the effects that everybody else seems to be experiencing. A huge relief knowing that I am not the only one. I have tried 2 other medications first and then this one and then ready to throw it in as it wasn't working quick enough for me - but GP suggested maybe just giving it a go. Have been on 20mg now for 6 months - but just cant seem to get over that hump - so have been advised to increase dosage to 30mg. Just now sitting here trying to decide whether to up dosage or not - and then I found this forum! I note that you have some links and information etc. would really love to look at these if possible.

Margie

Hi Margiez

It is worth trying a higher dose - some people even lower their dose as sometimes a dose can be too high for them. But give 30mg a go.

I’ll also message you.

Thank you so much. Have spent the afternoon reading all forum entries - what a fabulous supportive site. So glad and blessed to have found it. Looking forward to hearing from you

Margie

Hi everyone dont know if anyone still on here but struggling at mol m on 20mg citralopram have been taking for 10 mnthsfor anxiety depression in menopause had few months feeling great past 5 weeks all symptoms back following some bad news in family trying to continue but anxiety worse morbid thoughts terrible seeing dr tomoz wondering is this a blip or meds not working appreciate any advice

thanks Denise x

my i feel like i could have wrote this. nobody can comprehend what this is like unless you have been through it

Absolutely right - and even though doctors and medical professionals help us immensely, they’ll never know the full impact of how it feels unless they experienced it themselves.

Hi Kate, hope all is well? i sent you a message but not sure if you got it? Been having some problems with my computer apologies. Firstly I'd like to say a BIG THANK YOU to you and all of your wonderful posts, they have been a complete lifesaver ! you are truly a blessing to this community. 17 years ago i was diagnosed with clinical depression and took 20mg of prozac, it was extremely up and down with recovery being at about a year or so, (little hazy on events)- thankfully it didn't come back until last year (August)-brought on by ongoing anxiety and stress. I started on prozac again 20mg and been on it around 5 months, my depression has been very up and down, in the beginning it was like good day bad day, then i noticed the good days got longer-like out of 31 days i would have 20 good days and so on. Last month i had almost a full month being depression free, i thought it was gone, then BANG at the start of this month all of the symptoms have come back, not being able to focus-BIG ONE, slowed thinking, starring into nothing, thinking i have brain cancer, ruminating about my meds, needing my gf to stay with me because i feel low, part of my head feeling like it's in a vice or something, feeling sleepy---by the way Kate are all these symptoms normal? they are so scary, when i'm not in an episode i dont think like this, i think about music, my work, going out with friends etc, however when i'm down i just don't want to do anything and cant think clearly which is the worst, it's like everything feels sad and the world is closing in or something, very hard to explain. I don't want to up my dose, and it seems like the episodes of MDD come in cycles for me, is this normal? Hope you can help ! Thanks again.

One other strange thing is that 80% of the time i'm almost symptom free in the evening/night, almost normal?

Hi Katecogs

Thanks alot for your posts they are very helpfull .Could you please send me the name of the book .

thanks again

Hi Carlos

Yes just seen the private message. I’ll reply to that rather than post here.

K

I'll message you.

Hi kate

I asked my Doctor about DNA test to know which med suits me the best and she said I don't have any idea about this we don't do this.

I'm very tired of side effects .can you please tell us where we can do this test in Uk ,

I've messaged you.