Could someone give me some advice about detoxing please?

Thankyou! Yes, i have discussed it with my GP before and he was quite dismissive and gave details of a recovery service. I am not against this but need 1-1 support rather than a face to face group session! Have searched relentlessly for some support, ideally by phone or online.

I have read the replies from Vickylou and the replies from you and I understand that you will be trying to see the GP today.

I know you have experience of this before, but try to understand, that that friendly helpful GP, who has always been like a confident in your problems, now wants nothing to do with yourself. And the fact that you have recognised that you have a problem and are willing to go through the shame of admitting this to your GP and now looking for help and support from, counts for nothing.

Most of us have been there. I can only remember one person who has been helped all the way by their GP. Some people like me half got the halfway house, where the GP gave medication for detox because the alcohol reccovery centre were useless, but even we are in the minority.

So, please keep your expectations in check. I say this, because people can go to their GP with high hopes, bare their soul, get told to go away and all they do is hit the bottle with a vengance and say what is the point.

Take the information about the recovery centre, they do one to one counselling, you don't have to do group sessions, although they will keep pushing it. What I would be aiming for, is to ask your GP for diazepam to do a home detox. This lasts a week tops, and allows you to stop drinking completely without suffering any side effects.

This would give you a chance to have a clear head for the first time in ages. it would also give your liver a much needed break. I know you don't like taking medications, neither do I, but trust me, you need to take these medications to help you get better, you won't do it without them.

You have probably not been eating well, due to loss of appetite and receiving all your calories through alcohol. Plus the alcohol inhibits/washes out many nutrients you need, so therefore you ahould take thiamine, vitamine B compound/complex and folic acid. Tell the GP you want an LFT done - don't ask, say that you want it done.

The recovery centre will probably want to do a health check and LFT, but if you have a recent one from your GP, they can skip that. You then have two choices, nalmefene/naltrexone or Campral, one is for cutting down your drinking, with a possibility of stopping, the other is an anti-craving to help with abstinence.

It's all very well people saying, enough, I want to give up completely, but when it comes down to it, not many people do or actually want to. Let us know how you get on with the GP and if you are referred to an ARC, because there is more advice that can be given in dealing with them.

My key worker at ADS, local drug and alcohol services, had only vaguely heard of campral and thought acamprosate (brain dead with spelling) was a totally different drug altogether!!! I had to explain they were the same drug, one being the generic name and the other more commonly known name.

I was never asked about LFTs, or if indeed I'd ever had one. I definitely didn't have a medical check. I actually had to ask her if she wanted to know what medication I was on.

i rest my case as they say!

 

Thankyou! I saw the GP this morning and she referred me to Turning Point who are a recovery centre, although her initial advice was to get rid of all vodka from the house and just drink wine!! I went for an initial assessment today and a keyworker will contact me within the next 10 days for a full assessment. We discussed Campral and Antabuse but think I may go with the Campral as I think it has to be abstinence for me due to my 'all or nothing' character! I never used to drink at all when I was younger and in the rare breaks of not drinking that I have had, i feel amazing! Unfortunately, the habit/craving kicks back in and I jump straight back on the 'rollercoaster'!! I am notoriously a wine and vodka drinker but am going to switch to gin in the interim as I tend to drink less therefore will naturally cut down ready for the start of my journey. I am feeling positive and really appreciate the advice and support ive received in this Forum. I just hope they contact me sooner rather than later as I fear my enthusiasm/confidence will weaken! :-(

Hi rachel

​well you sound a bit more positive now. What a helpful comment get rid of the vodka and just drink wine.  A a a word of caution would be to steer well clear of Antabuse. It's old fashioned and very dangerous. I'm surprised the recovery centre even mentioned it.

Like you I am an all or nothing person, which is probably the main reason I went with campral. I'm a bit confused as to how gin has come into the equation. The GP probably meant wine is better than drinking vodka, not swap one spirit for another.

I know from experience drinking spirits will just make it harder for you. Obviously it's up to you, but in this interim period before your full assessment, why not try and cut down by just drinking wine. You won't be going cold turkey as your body will still be getting alcohol.

I certainly don't wish to put a dampener on your enthusiasm, but like RHGB said in his post, there is more advice and help we can give you when dealing with alcohol services, particularly with them discussing Antabuse.

My honest advice, and please don't think I'm telling you what to do, would be to go with campral. I needed abstainance and campral provided that and yes like you, when I look back, my happiest times have been when I've not been drinking.

I was alcohol free for four years and in that time my confidence grew. I went to university as a mature student, got a degree and a whole new life. My mistake was to start thinking, great I've got a whole new happy life, family and friends really proud of me, so why not have the odd drink now and again. I don't touch spirits at all, enjoy social drinking, but I've relapsed a few times with binges, I'm not perfect but would still recommend campral.

I can't help you regarding naltrexone/nalmefeme as I've never tried it, other members will help you with that.

good luck

Hi Vickylou,

Thankyou, yes I do feel more positive. The reason I mentioned gin is because it's what I have in the house and I tend to measure it out whereas I don't with vodka. I generally then don't drink as much when I drink gin!

Thanks for the advice about the meds. I do think Campral is definitely the one I'll go with, I did not like the sound of Antabuse when the recovery centre described it to me so will not be trying that one!! He did say that I should probably become abstinent pretty quickly, which was good news for me! I will spend the interim trying to drink less and start later, which will help reduce my intake.

Thankyou for the support, I am very much open to any tips or advice!

Best wishes

I want to bang the heads together, very hard (so it is painful and they won't forget) of anyone at these centres that recommend antabuse.

It does nothing to help with cravings, it just helps hospitalise people who relapse on it. All it does is try and frighten people into not drinking, whilst not dealing with the underlying issues, that acohol does affect people's brain afte a prolonged period. Under no circumstances should you allow them to even carry on mentioning this to you, tell them straight off, it is not an option.

You have a right to be offered one of the approved NHS drugs nalmefene/naltrexone/Campral unless they can show a valid reason for not offering it to you and they are funded by NHS and government grants.

I can understand why your GP asked you to drop the vodka, as wine is much more of a taste drink, whereas vodka tastes of nothing, because it is ethanol and water, nothing else. It is the choice of alcoholics, because it does not smell and has no flavour (unlike say whisky) and does the job of giving you that buzz. That is why it is so popular with women, because it doesn't have a kick like whisky.

You know that gin is nothing more than vodka flavoured with juniper? They make it in batches together, then send some of the vodka off to have juniper added and become gin, 'Mother's ruin'.

Ideally, you should be detoxed prior to going on Campral. In fact, Campral should be taken as you detox, so when you finish detox, the Campral is already in your system and doing its thing.

Although I attend an ARC, the first one was useless and wanted me to wait 2 - 3 months before they would detox me, so I told them to go forth and multiply. I then complained to the director (actually a decent person) and got myself in at another branch and was fast tracked - or at least for them it was.

So I have not gone down the protracted route, but something that seems to have cropped up on here before, is where they ask for a two week drinking diary. Now, most of us work on common sense (first mistake) and most people like to please other people and show willing/commitment (second mistake).

So, you go all out for two weeks, suffering with only minimal alcohol, mild withdrawal symptoms and sleepless nights. You proudly attend your next meeting, full of pride that you have tried very hard and your reward for this should be a prescription of your chosen medication.

I would advise at this point to make sure you are sitting down and locate an instrument with a point, such as a sharpened pencil. As you hand over your drinks diary, full of expectation, for them to look through. At that point the key worker then says to you, well done rachel, you seem to be coping fine without medication, so you don't meet our criteria and we would like you to carry on reducing your consumption naturally and attend some of our very helpful group sessions where you can talk about your success.

This is where the pencil comes into play, as you thrust it through their eyeball, past their prefrontal cortex and into the centre of their brain, whilst saying, that is what I think of your drinks diary, criteria and group sessions. I don't suggest you do this, but sometimes going through the thought process in your mind can relieve the building stress levels.

Back to the point. Some people have found it better, to go back with a drink's diary which shows no drop in consumption or a slight increase, which shows that you are unable to reduce your drinking without medical help.

On your last point, you have to toughen up and prepare for a bit of a wait, ARCs are not known for their speedy services. They have procedures in place and they must be followed, slowly, very slowly.

Thankyou for this. Attending group sessions is not an option for me and I've told them this and I will not be swayed! I haven't had a drink tonight and its got me thinking whether i could do this alone. I rarely get the shakes, only when ive had a bit of a binge but that's very rare. I just dont know how to do it myself safely....do I alternate on/off days of drinking whilst reducing the amount or do I drink everyday at a reduced rate? What timescale would I be aiming for to stop completely and do i need some supplements/vitamins? Sorry to bombard with questions! I recognise you may not have the answers but any advice would be much appreciated! Many thanks, Rachel

An excellent description of any alcohol services I've used. Presume you've read my post and experience.

I think you ought to write a book as I've said before. Your humour makes a serious subject easier to read, whilst still getting the message across. I've not written this very well, so hope people can follow my drift

Never a good idea to stop completely or to do altenate days. The idea is basically training your system to ween off, reduce by a small amount every few days.

I know you don't drink beer, but it is easy to use as an explanation. Say you drink 6 - 8 pints a night (I'm a bloke, so these are bloke's measures). First hurdle, would be to make sure it is a maxium of 6. After a week, then 4 a day, it needs to be a psychological drop, then 2 for a week then none.

There is no point in trying to rush it, you've been drinking for years, taking a month to come down isn't going to make any difference. Plus you want it to be as painless as possible. Too quick and you might have withdrawal symptoms, too long and you lose interest and give in.

Supplements; Thiamine, vitamin B compound/complex and folic acid, which can all be found on the hight st through a well known health shop. Alcohol destroys some of those vitamins and often when we are drinking daily, we are not eating well and are therefore deficient in them.

Well, be prepared on the group session front, it seems to be their main weapon and they are a bit lost if you don't go to it. I said no, not because I don't like groups, I am quite used to that, I've had to give a speech in front of 250 people before, and when you see some people who won't put their phone away, one specimen picking his nose and inspecting the contents and another looking at his watch before you've even started to speak, it can be quite off putting.

I refuse to go, because I just can't see any benefit in it for me. My circumstances are unique to me, I feel no urge to bear my soul to others and unless some of them have a sense of humour like me and can tell some funny stories, I really don't want to listen to their life story.

However, that doesn't stop them asking me every time I go there (once a month) to reconsider group sessions because, 'they're very good' and people get a lot from them. A word rhyming with rollocks comes to mind.

Believe you me, you don't want to go if my experience was anything to go by.

i had no choice and had to go weekly for six months. Not a pleasant experience being breathalised every week. If there was the slightest reading of alcohol, out you went.

id never come across such a diverse lot of people. It takes a lot to intimidate me, but two women in the group scared me to death. The men I could deal with, no problem, but the two women no way!!!

I won't be breathalysed again, I had that once and it will not happen again.

I attend voluntarily, they know I have my own supply of Campral and refusal to supply the scripts will be the last they see of me.

I agreed to go to one meeting, and I keep to my word, like it or not, I shall attend. Only the other end of the deal looks like it isn't happening. I get two times two week prescriptions instead of one four week prescription. Which means I have to travel mid month back to the hospital pharmacy to collect the other two weeks.

It is not as if I can even save them up. the mid month became was dated yesterday, so I can collect it any time now. With one exception, it is only dated live for two weeks, so if it is not collected by close of business 27th, it is invalid. And no, the chemist will not budge by one day. So I don't actually need them, I can wait until my next appointment to collect my new script on the 28th, but if I do that, it is out of date.

I've told them I'll do the MAP session, but they are not exactly jumping to book me in with a date, even though they run two sessions every week.

I am seriously at the point where I will pick up four weeks script week after next, and as I have 3 months stock at home, I think 4 months will see me through, as I have been on it for 4 months already. I am getting absolutely nothing out of this, I do not believe they have anyone who really knows about alcohol, is trained on it or focussed on it. I believe their focus is totally on class a drugs and court probation.

I just do not fit in.

I can always try Calpol, as I don't believe you need a script for that.

As for intimidation, I am 6'2" with size in proportion, it's a long time seen anybody did that.

Alright smartarse, knew you would bring that up, you're slipping up! You took longer than I thought though!!!

the saga of you and your medications beggars belief. Why the hell cant they sort it out. It must be so frustrating. It's enough to drive you to drink!

i had a very interesting appointment with a locum this morning. Out of curiosity I asked him what he thought of TSM and anti craving tablets. He had to google TSM as he'd never heard of it! He spent five minutes reading it, then said "new one on me, learn something everyday"

he also said with regards to anti craving drugs, Antabuse is very effective. I said what about acamprosate (calpol!!!) He'd never heard of it, probably some trial in America.

i mentioned about my key worker at ADS on another thread. She'd never heard of any of them either. I had to explain that campral and acamprosate were the same drug, acamprosate being the generic name.

last time I went to see my GP, she asked if I wwas still going to ADS and did I find it helpful, told her what I thought of it and she changed the subject. 

I for one, would never use alcohol services ever. From my experience, it was a total waste of time. IMO these places are geared towards class a drugs as you quite rightly say.

Agreed!

Sure there must be some good ones out there somewhere, but none of us have ever come across one of them.