Hi about to try a little experiment on lichen planus and lichen sclorosis

oh well that's brilliant sky..keep on as you are..more energy...less LS sounds like a wiiner to me!!

Oh, that is disappointing to hear about the line of foods. I would think the most basic sense would be cooking 'real' meals from good whole foods.

So you went ahead and did the fast..good for you..I still will wait till september. Will you keep me informed on any changes that happen..One thing I do know diet affects thyroid levels. I have proved that again and again to myself...It is due to semi fasts my absorption level of thyroxine changed and I was getting way too much in my system so somehow the intake or quantity of foods..or types of foods play a part with my thyroid problem. Still using manuka and alternating with demovate...and things are calmer

Hi TBF I reduced my intake x2 days a week over 6 12 weeks - including cutting out alcohol completely. Not only did I lose a stone in wieght  I feel so much fitter for doing so. Too early to determine if the LS has been affected tho - Good luck - and like you i found  not eating wasnt a chore - but i DID drink a LOT of water.  On the non fasting days i have reduced my intake as I have "lost the habit" of turning to food when the clocks says "meal time"

Hi Sue DM

Like you, I am doing the 5:2 as a way of keeping me prepared for the week at the start of each month when I do the total fast. This is now my third week. Week 1 was 2 days total fast. Weeks 2&3 on the 5:2 diet. It is very easy. I feel better and livelier. I wasn't terribly depressed about the LS and the OLP, but my mood is definitely lighter (as is my body). I find I am actually looking forward to the next total fast which I plan to make 3 days. That is because I have found some other scientific paper which says that the true effect on the white blood cells doesn't kick in until after 72 hours of complete fasting (except for water and non-milk tea/coffee).

I have also just started some chinese acupuncture, with a specialist in Exeter. He is pretty hopeful that he can have a positive overall effect on the multiple autoimmune disorders of the skin that I have. I'll keep posting progress. I also started "oil pulling" this morning to help my OLP damaged skin. Weird feeling. Didn't like it very much but I will continue.

Oil Pulling????

Google it. I use coconut oil for its anti-bacterial properties (good value from Waitrose, also available from H&B). The theory is that when the oil mixes with saliva all the mouth bacteria and viruses are attracted preferentially to the oil and held in suspension so you just spit them out into the trash. This includes all the bacteria which are in and around the gum line forming plaque. With the cheek and gum inflammation and ulcers, which accompany a bad bout of Oral Lichen Planus, it helps to keep the mouth as hygienic as possible so that infection is not added to the autoimmune inflammation. An age-old method that has recently become fashionable.

Thank you. Interesting. Did your dentist suggest it? 

 

Yes, both dentist and dental hygienist suggested it to calm the inflammation from severe erosive LP in my mouth

Does it help? Having a sore mouth is grim. I have coconut oil in the larder - but havent used it for cooking yet - or anything else for that matter. I hope it works for you

Best wishes 

Hi Sue

The coconut oil pulling does seem to be helping settle my mouth for a day of aggravation from food!

tbf

How is your fast and your mouth - And your weight???

i have been out and about recently and the  5:2 slipped and the weight stayed more or less the same- but i need  lose a bit more weight - and it DOES feel so much better to  be lighter. Do keep me posted

Sue

Hi Sue

My fast is holding up OK. The 2 days per week on 500 cals is OK. Oddly it is more difficult than the 2 days without any food. I'm going to do 3 days without food at beginning of Sept.

When no food goes in, then my mouth has a good chance to settle down. Then it gets sore when I restart eating, so that's an incentive eh!!

I've lost about 4kg so far, so I'm pretty pleased with that. But weight loss isn't my real objective. Once weight loss starts to be my objective then all my mental issues about weight kick in and I start bingeing. So I am holding my focus on trying to stop this whole immune thing taking over.

The Chinese acupuncture is helping to reduce stress. It's the same old thing - has stress caused the autoimmune skin conditions or vice versa. Whichever way round that chicken and egg situation is, it can't be bad to try to de-stress eh? He wants me to reduce from 7 units of alcohol a week to 4, but that is difficult in social situations. I only drink alcohol on 2 days per week, which are social events, now and that is how I reduced from 14 units to 7.

 

hi tbf and sue

this is a very interesting dialogue. may i come in please? i hope i'm not intruding.

tbf ...i am so excited for you that you've taken up fasting...this is such a pwerful technique...i used to do it in the past for health and wholeness reasons but have let it slip by the wayside as it were ...you are inspiring me to get back into it.

one slight complication for me now is that i've allowed the enviromental conditons to come into play for hereditary thyroid issues to arise...as they've done....so i'm supposed to be taking thyroxin either daily or supplementing to promote naturally as much as possible thus fasting could be an issue...tho it prob wouldn't be...am i just putting up obstacles?! 

You ask chicken or egg - in my case stess has been THE cause of my autoimmune probs- i can feel  the itch as soon as the tension mounts! I dont mouth breathe notrmally (which is one way for an asthma episode to occur) and aok; BUT when stressed the wheeze occurs....

Re your weight fast etc  you do sound as if you are improving. I have a friend in Melbourne who developed LP in the mouth - it was really dreadful for her. She is VERY careful with her diet all the time- and has for most of her life - she smashed her knee and needs to keep weight strictly under control.

I dont miss alcohol when i am out - i have to drive everywhere and most non alcoholic drinks are far too sweet so fizzy water is my favourite drink.  If i am not thristy then i dont crave for a glass of wine!

Are you still doing your thing with coconut mouth washes? did it work for you?

I must say i do prefer the empty tum feeling to the feeling full and lethargic, BUT i love the taste of food!

i have always found it easier to say no - OK than just one ....sigh weak willed

Welcome aboard. But really this is the dialogue that Sky23 started and I am hoping she/he will join in the September fast.

Sorry but I cannot comment on your medication issue since I have no experience of it. When I decided to fast I asked my GP was it OK - may I suggest you do the same?

Me too - I'm weak willed in terms of living up to social expectations wrt drink and food.

thanks tbf

my GP is very indulgent and lets me follow my own path...whilst being surprisingly helpful with blood tests and including extra requests for which i ask, subject to justification of course!

i love that this has become such a long thread and i'm sure sky will be pleased too! ...hi sky ...sky comes in and out but has initiated interest in this fast idea ...which i think i'm also going to go for as well. wouldn't it be nice if we all did it?! well those that want to and have maybe been thinking about it...nearly september now...eek!

Sue have you got the coconut oil out of your cupboard yet? think you'd enjoy the oil pulling...much nicer than the other oils which folk have traditionally used...doesn't bear thinking about some of the original oils!!

Hey Marey..Hi everyone. I am so tired..work has been shocking..however am off for a few days so now it is time to plan the FAST...and off course get on with it past the planning stage..lichen is quiet on my end..that could well be that for now it is exhausted after having a drama fit dur to my thyrod altering..blood test in a few weeks for that one. So let me know when we are to start..just avaid Mondays..I hate Mondays..XXX

Yep about to do the fast with you..but remember the comment to avoid Mondays..I have 2 jobs and on the Monday one I need to be a peaceful fount of humanitarianism which means no hunger pangs..Sorry for not always getting back..thus far it is work and leaking gutters and no show builders..stress!!!

Hey Marie..spoke to my doctor on not taking thyroxine for 2 days and she was not that disturbed as I was on too much thyroxine anyway..If I think about it taking thyroxine on an empty stomach can cause a change in absorption levels(as it has done with me on the 2-5 diet) so don't let it be an obstacle..just be aware..and follow your gut instinct..With thyroxine on an empty stomach watch for feelings of irritation and impatience...because that is what happened with me..and then the thing went haywire...which is why I firmly believe diet plays a part in this disease..but just how..don't know..

Hi Toms Best Friend..the studies on oral lichen see to be growing..which is good,,if you google oral lichen and tumeric you can read some of them. When I was first diagnosed with oral lichen(now dormant) it was in the USA over 30 years ago. The consultant dentist reeled off a long list of vitamins to take on a daily basis and the dosage. As I was financially broke I just looked at him in horror..how I wish I had taken notes of those ingredients. I cannot remember when mine burnt out..it was some years ago..then I started with lichen of the vulva..such is life..

yeh ok....i 'll leave out one dose. will take it day one but not day two. thanks for that...so go on set a date! my GP happy to leave it to my judgement.

good luck with buiders!

Ok but if others are doing it then I want it to be a date we can all join in..got tuesday and wednesday free next week..or failing that one any friday and saturday or sunday..can't collapse at work...also any ideas on displacement activity..there are books..Try to tap the subconscious.. write a long statement in a diary as to why I am doing this and what I have been through..now that could be depressing..hmmm..I need gentle chores..am thinking

OK everyone - I'm with you for Tuesday 2nd and Wednesday 3rd September. I may do a third day if I am feeling strong.

As I went into the cupboard for something for my toast a tub of tumeric fellout and its everywhere. Anyhow, after hoovering and mopping I decided tolook at making a salve whilst on a fast.I want to use honey(manuka) and tumeric but..honey melts too easy..so I need to solidy it more..so I am thinking of beeswax caps(have a source) I think I would have to sort of steam these ingredients on a saucer over a pan of hot water and keep stirring. I figure I would have to make a lot of small batches till I got the consistancy right. Then, if I acheive the right consistancy I still will not know if the tumeric is strong wnough for any affect(it will take weeks or months) Anyhow if I use it on patches of hand skin first..then if okay thinner skin such as inner mouth lip I can see if there is any effect.Not certain on using beeswax I don't want a honey candle but I cannot think of anything else that is totally organic...Anyone with any ideas give a yell

How about coconut oil? 

yes emminently sensible as it dries hardened. I put turmeric in everything at the mo....can't bear to think of it all over your kitchen floor sky!!

Actually a lovely recipe is organic chicken legs...or whole or any parts...baked in coconut oil ..with coconut cream, water and loads of turmeric...yum and it gets this incedibly healing, soothing and ANTI INFLAMMATORY  inside us!

definitely think tomsbf 's suggestion of coconut oil is inspired...you would just very gently warm the oil (its hard from the tub...got to be organic cold pressed stuff) then mix in the turmeric ...then with a teaspoon put the tiniest blobs that you need size-wise onto a plate to cool...then you have lozenge sized amounts to store in fridge til you need. brilliant! what do you both think? that would be for the sores in your mouth and anywhere else?

YES OK

that suits me...and you sky? its not a monday!! you going to let margaret know? and well everyone else who reads this ...i can maybe let suzanne and hanny know and mariec...

SO TUES 2ND AND WED 3RD IT IS THEN?? Yiphee!!!!!!

oo bit scarey...but we can do it!

 

Hi Tomes Best Friend. I thought about coconut oil but like the honey it has an easy melting point. What I need is something that is more of a goop..a bit like the oral steroid ointment they give for lichen. I figure this may be the best sort of consistancy to try on mucus membranes..I am only going to try a little bit on a tiny patch and monitor it after trying it for a week or so on a normal patch of body skin..I simply cannot think of anything..

Of course we can do it..rictus grin and all..the 2 and 5 diet has helped gain a bit of  self discipline but the day after a semi fast I can't wait to hit toast followed by a couple of shortbreads..after 2 days am likely to eat the whole packet...and a whole lot of toast..not a good thing..Best get in some bottled water..hot wated with a squirt of lemon..ideas on comfort water drinking?? Is tea no milk or sugar on the menu..and guess we had all better stay in support...

Alternatively what about a very, very thick paste of cornstarch or arrowroot. You could cook the paste it in the microwave to avoid the risk of burning it in a pan.

The tumeric was all over the kitchen this morning..thinl I lost a teeshirt..very yellow..but it refocused what I have been meaning to do..time is an issue with me..Now I came across a lip slave made in the UK from coconut, honey and beeswax.(that was all there was in it as I checked the ingredients).this was about the right consistancy and though it would melt it would leave a bit of a film on the lips..but I don't know how much of either ingredient to use..which is why there is likely to be an big mess in my kitchen and lots of gloopy stufg that stains..

!!!

Detox tea girl...be serious now!

think you're getting there with this ingredients plan for a salve. 

Also you're right we should be thinking about drinks..for the fast...i suppose a stand by smoothie for the next day or even along the way if we slip up is a good reserve plan ....don't get me thinking about packets of shortbread...!

ok so de-tox and herbal teas....to support the liver...and filtered water. yes agreed. TBF that suit you too? 

thats an idea..never tried arrowroot..hmm..right more ingredients to try out..cornstarch also could be a goodone as it is edible so swallowing some should be okay..thanks hon...will let you know progress

I think that if one is a caffeine drinker it is worthwhile keeping up one's usual intake because it would be silly to add a caffeine withdrawal headache to everything else during the fast. I plan to take the tea/coffee without milk. Also, perhaps take an extra  glass of water if it is a strong coffee. I think I am not going to take my usual fish oil capsules either. After all oil has quite a few calories in it doesn't it.

Yep keep up a few cups of caffeine..but careful you can still sleep...thinking to suppliment the occassional hot water with a slice of lemon whipped in and out..as lond as i don't eat the lemon..I'm a tea drinker so I shall have at least one or two teabags..no milk..no sugar..agghh!!

thoughtful detail....i don't drink enough to miss it....but organic black coffee (or with raw unpasteurised milk) is actually a potent anti-oxidant...and so good for you...must be organic and fresh ground...really important as anything else is toxic (ish)....or at least not good for you..

the most supremely important thing is to be downing as many de-tox cups of tea as possible...to make this process of the greatest benefit....together with as much FILTERED water as we can drink so we're doing lots of peeing and cleaning out of liver and kidneys.... the best herb teas will include ginger and cornsilk ...plus other flushes i can't think of at mo...but they call themselves de-tox teas these days anyway...but a conscientious trip to the health store is called for!

Quitting medication for the day prob ok...oil is good for you though....don't forget the new rule eat fat to lose fat! Ancel Keyes had a lot to answer for! so either way with the fish oil.

hey sky...enjoy your black tea...well pressed lemon would be ok....helps to alkalise xxx  

just looking up living water. Its growing in the US. Its filtered water but then funnelled through a spiral with magnets which reenergises it from the filtering..Apparently its good for you..why magnets? There seems to be a bit of fear growing on the chemicals in the water in the USA..including fluride and estrogen..wonder whats in ours..Sounds like a good little home business..all i need is a spiral some bottles of filtered water and a few magnets ....how hard can it be..now back to work..stay refreshed XX

love it sky...an enterprise! brilliant x

I've just sorted things out at work so I will be off on Tues 2nd Sept so that I can do the fast on Tues.  So from Mon night at 8.30pm UK time I will be eating nothing until Weds morning at around 8am.  I will drink lemon juice with hot water.  I will get some herbal teas.  What else will be good?  I need things that will "flush" the system?  Is cranberry juice good?

ooh can you get some real unsweetened cranberries?  maybe whizz them in hot water...i don't really know whether that would be drinkable? really agree that lemon is brill. so glad you're on board x

Lukewarm water with a slice of lemon is the very best way to flush out your system. Good first thing every morning.

Wow..well done..check calorie content on herbal.I shall drink water and have a few hor drinks cause I have noticed some herbal teas stimulate my appetite..especially green tea.X