I'm being treated for dysbiosis. Is there someone I can talk to about this?

Hi Steve,

How long have you been taking it?

I hope I get some more responses, but I think I should have started this topic in the GI forum rather than the alternative medicine forum.  They do use a lot of alternative treatments.  I wonder if there's any way to copy this over rather than starting all over again there.

Carol in Massachusetts

Hi Steve

What is SIBO?  Whatever it is, I'm glad 'it' helps.  Interesting that you're doing it in rounds, or is this just the way that it worked out for you (ie it worked, then it didn't so you had to do it again)?  I read some comments on it on-line and a number of people seem to just take a little bit every day, or now and then and get happy results.  Lots of 6 star comments.

Again, I don't know your probiotic, but I guess I can figure it out (havng the web at my fingertips as I do - I keep forgetting).. 250 billion  -that's a lot.  Are they colonizing -  there are so many they probably don't need to (lol).

 

No cliff hangers, only time zones.  I'm sorry to hear that you are dealing with this dysbiosis, which I'd never heard of til about three weeks ago, but glad to have you reaching out a hand.  Together we will prevail.

My chiro thought that I might have progressed too quickly with the herbal remedy (i did what she had prescribed) and that some of my discomfort (maybe all) was due to my body getting rid of the yeast, bacteria and parasites that the remedy is intended to do.  So, after four or five days to recover I'm going to start again very slowly.  That means 1 drop twice a day for several days, then increasing to 2 drops twice a day for several days.  I may never top out at the 20 drops twice a day - for six weeks - that she initially scheduled me for. Are you familiar with the remedy I'm talking about?  It includes 18 different herbs, three of them taken from two parts of the plant (hull and leaf from black walnut, for instance).  Anyway, time will tell.  Can you give me an indication of what you've been taking, or doing, to get through this? Have you had this dysbiosis for a long time?  I think we can share a lot as long as we are generic as opposed to specific, and I think capital letters might be a trigger, so I'm going to de-capitalize my 'black walnut' above.

TeacheRand 21 (TR21) has provided a lot of very useful information and I hope he/she checks back in at some point.  I'm wondering if organic sauerkraut from a health food store is as good as home made, but I'm going to give it a try, being mindful of overuse.  I'm currently taking a 10 strain probiotic with 30 billion live cultures per cap and delayed release so it doesn't get decimated by stomach acid before it reaches the gut.  I'm also taking a lot (don't know if I can say how much) of Vitamin D3.  I'm relatively free from abdominal pain and I think I can ascribe the lack of pain to the probiotic, the D3 and fiber.  But, I have bloating and my stomach feels full after not very much food.  It's obvious to me that I'm limping along day to day keeping discomfort at bay, but I have to get rid of the condition.  The remedy that I was taking is a cleanse, and if I can tolerate it it may do the job. 

I can't imagine what a 'squatty botty' (name altered to satisfy the moderators?) is, but an image comes to my mind of my knees somewhere up by my ears.  I'll have to ask my chiro if she has a clue.  

Do keep in touch, please.

 

I would bet your chiro has at least hear mention of the "squatty", I've just read so much about squatting, it makes sense, and I've been using the full squat it and can say it works as advertised.  Though it still does require good digestive health for full benefit, and if things are not going well straining is still possible just less likely and less intense in my experience. 

well I'm glad you are making sure to get a probiotic with your cleanse, I think you are on the right track good job to your Chiro. 

You did mention still having a lot of bloating, so about the fiber.... some people find they do better on a low to moderate fiber diet, that might be something to consider (I know it flies in the face of conventional wisdom). 

For me I started getting terrible pain and discomfort from eating evening even fairly soft fibers (though not much bloating) and cutting back helped.  and / or you might just need to find the right kind of fiber for you and the right dose (for now).

This stuff sure does get complicated quickly. 

And I do worry about giving advice, I can't say I'm 100% recovered, but I am feeling so close to normal now.  I'm able to exercise again, and eat meat without any major discomfort and my headaches are more rare. 

I'm still sticking with my supplements though and I am sure that without them, I'd be in trouble.  Especially zinc has been helpful.  Its probably that its helping my blood brain barrier, which seemed to have been compromised during that time (and cell phone usage during that time DID NOT HELP which further indicates the blood brain barrier hypothesis). 

But interestingly enough, I just read that exercise is one of the best things to help the BBB, so now that I can do that again, I will try to do 30-45mins each day (though when it is severely compromised, like it was before, strenuous exercise is not and option).     

 

 

oh sorry, about the "squatty" it is a modified squat, so it actually allows one to sit on the toilet but the legs to raise up somewhat.  It only stands at 7in (or optionally 9in) so the knees won't be nearly as high as the method I use, but still it seems sufficient based on testimonials I've read. Ultimately I would recommend working up to the squat, I know its a tough sell for most people, but when you get sick enough, it becomes much more appealing.

I sent one of the "squatties" to my father and he has been using it, but I'm yet to here a full progress report.  Though he tells me he is regularly now.

and speaking of time zones I currently live (and teach) in Bangkok, so this explains the long time delays for me!   I teach science here (and now medicine? lol). 

can we be allowed one mention in each thread of a useful product? mr moderator?

In normal cases yes but the problem is some users then use the forums to plug and promote products. If you want to recommend a specific brand or product you can use the Private message service to exchange these.

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great info

I wouldn't want to recommend a brand...once we describe the type of thing  we've used a simple google will prob reveal it or even a choice of products all  offering the same thing. I really want to share and to have the benenfit of others  experiences. please allow this its so vital and is why i 've come here. i will sure report any advertising

lots of things to say

there's a russian who talks about the detrriment of fibre in the initial stages...thereafter i think fibre is vital ..but not when you can't pooh...as he points out it just increases the blockage. i'm thinking magnesium for you carol...the tingling indicates a shortage am sure your chiro would agree.

i've been taking a very slow working combo...of nutraceuticals...can pm you if interested but the regime is spread over a year. plus supplememnts and probiotics...i stopped for a while as so subtle...but then i literally felt things creeping back and taking hold of my GI tract...so might be parasites might be candidiasis...its the go slow element that i actually like...western detox is all too melodramatic!!

mag and vit c is a great bowel mover i've found. and actually i no longer need to squat. the other great discovery i've had is reactions to food ...improvement since quitting gluten now dairy and starting to be more conscientious with omitting sugar. organic raw whole leaf green stevia ()beware imitations) has helped me orgainise smoothies that are palatable...like others here still a work in progress xxxx

2 to 3 years for rebuilding a great biome is a realistic target...makes one year feel like a period i can relax into. i've been experimenting for more than a year..

i'd like to name some of the really helpful websites i've visited ok mr moderator? ps have you considered taking more of a back seat and waiting til people actually report complaints?

So much to think about, and so many questions.  When this all started I decided to stop all supplements and I went on the "white diet for people without teeth" as described by Jacqueline in Divi Diners, and started taking slippery elm for the pain.  After a couple of weeks of that I started adding real food (paying good attention to what I was eating), then vitamin D3 and a probiotic, and in the past week or so B12 and  B complex, and turmeric (curcumin - recommended by my chiro).  I'm going to add Cal/Mag and Vitamin C now, thank you for that recommendation.  I've had them on my shelf but building up my courage..  My hiatus hernia has made taking a lot of vitamins/supplements very uncomfortable, so I've been taking some things in liquid or chewable form.  Capsules sort of float around before they clear, and a large solid pill is really scary.  My MO now is to take the capsules then eat something to push things through.  No big scary pills at this point.

​TR21 mentioned colonizing probiotics.   I'm going to look into that. Am I naive to think they might speed up the process of rebuilding?  I just deleted a three sentences of a  "poor me" rant... And now, dysbiosis!!?? to cap it off.  2 - 3 years.  I can see what you are saying tho.  It's not just about getting rid of the bad stuff, it's also about building the good stuff - and it's all pooh (I guess we can't call it what it really is).  

About fiber, I'm scared to take fiber powders, wafers, whatever because I'm afraid of getting backed up.  They have warnings all over them.  So I've been eating (trying to eat) a lot of high fiber foods   My gastro guy wants to biopsy my small intestine to see if I have celiac, but his nurse practitioner has said that it's unlikely that I have it - but you never know. My chiro says I can have my DNA tested for it and if it's  not something familial that I don't have it.  Do you khow anything about that?  So far I have had a test for my adrenals (an asi test - note lower case), and I just sent my blood off for food sensitivlty testing.  I had a lactose intolerance breath test last week and it came back negative.  Haven't gotten results on the others yet.  Things take time.

AS for moving pooh, I find that the yoga "gas relieving " pose is very effective, especially if one adds (lying on one's back) pulling one knee back to the chest and then the other knee, and then the two together.  I do 20 on the left then 20 on the right then 20 with both (not quickly), and sometimes repeat it.  Be careful - one never knows what the results will be - pharts, belches, or pooh.  At least it relieves the system, and sometimes it takes the pressure off hernia discomfort.  This might be the most useful information I've provided you.  I apologize for going on, and on, and on....

I got a stool.  What happens remains to be seen (I think I need an emoticon).  

thanks for your input lizzie, I didn't mentioned mag and vit c, but I sure do take them.  I always take my magnesium before bed since it relaxes muscles, with a bit of apple cider vinegar and water.

about the stool, I just tried doing the modified position (a stool not the full squat), and its really not as good as a full squat. 

I hope its not too weird a change to make.  For the kind of person I am I don't mind, but I know its not as dignified as the sitdown position.

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The stool didn't work; it was too small and it slid around on the floor.  But - the tub is a little over a foot in front of my knees and the edge little over foot high.  It really works well.  I'll have to see if it's enough in the long run.

After all my posts the other day, I realized that I don't really know where I am with my situation.  I know I have diverticulosis and hiatus hernia, and I have a lot of symptoms which would be a lot of other things.  i don't want to have the endoscopy to check for celiac.  There's the dna test.  Even though 40% of people have the markers and don't have celiac, I might be one of the 60% who don't, so it might be worth it. There are other things that show up in an endo, so I have to make my mind.

Now I have to deal with Easter dinner.  I know one appetizer I won't touch - kielbasa and pineapple - really did a number on me at Thanksgiving. 

Thank you for your thoughtful and informational comments.  Got to run - more on dr gastro (I'm afraid of him) and the system(s) later.

thanks for the great commentary carol and rand....just caught up with you!

gosh i didn't realise you had diverticulitis carol...that is a tough one. have you tried slippery elm?

why am i being moderated? i mentioned a herb....not a product....tho it can be sold as a health food. one  would have to search and choose a company selling it. this is annoying. why mr moderator is this happening please? i thought we had resolved any matters?

hadn't checked back in some time.  using a stool does present challenges.  and moving to a full squat over a conventional toilet can be quit simply dangerous.  If you decide to go that route you'll have to buy a safe low to ground toilet (like we have in Asia).

But I should update about my state as well.  Things have been a bit variable.  Though no more constipation (since I began probiotics), I began to stop tolerating some foods again (I was eating a lot of meats which were becoming irritation to my stomach); this is strange because at first the animal product diet was what was helping. 

I still like my eggs, cheese and yogurt, but something about muscle meats that is just irritating to my system now

Also I noticed that digestion was moving too quickly now, so instead of my previous large intestine dysbiosis perhaps I was having a small intestine dysbiosis.

So I took some advice that I had been putting off, drinking hot teas. I'd heard this from a couple who were both suffering from GI disorders (IBS and Candida), they highly recommended drinking hot liquids.  Now after drinking herbal teas, things seem to be much better.  Also cutting down on meats, for obvious reasons.

My goal is to keep the bacteria under control in both the small and large intestines and minimize irritation to facilitate healing.  All the naturapaths I've read say that proper healing starts with good gut flora.      

 

so gosh, getting back to your original post, how has the dysbiosis medicine (am I allowed to say the name?) working for you?

hope all is well (though I know it can't be when your guts aren't working)

*I should add to my update

another thing I'm looking into is just getting outside more.  this isn't strictly related to digestion, but I (like most people I think) need a certain amount of time outdoors in the sunlight just moving around. common sense that always bears repeating.

its at least a way to indirectly improve digestion, and provides I think one of the best anti-depressents (and lord knows dwelling on gut issues can be depressing)

hi rand

i'm trying VSL it has 450 good bacteria...highest i've found....really very high...just taking at night so any wind isn't anti-social. i used to have really obnoxious smelly wind ...sorry for TMI ...but i'm in the right place i hope. so far so good. will update

oh 450 Billion? or strains? I assume 450 billion, but I haven't yet seen one with that much. They say Kefir has something like a trillion bacteria so perhaps that high a number is good for reestablishing good flora.

I sometimes wonder if I quit Kefir too early, it is a great way to get amino acids past a damaged gut. But I've found that a whole fat Greek yogurt does about the same and is less time consuming (though with less strains of good bacteria). Add bananas and blueberries it is just about perfect (the bananas not only tase good but help protect the gut and feed certain bacteria). Still I miss the taste of kefir, it is unique.

are you doing the bone broth treatment? Or raw cabbage with other stuff to heal and seal the bowel walls to overcome intestinal permeability?

well go back to your kefir...you can try perhaps the coconut milk version...?

spin the cream bar with 1000mls of boiling water in a blender then pour into a mason jar to which you add either some left over kefir from a prior batch or your chosen probiotic...leave in a warm oven with the light on for 2 or 3 days depending on how sour you like it ...and then voila !!

I have researched using coconut milk in the kifir and it is okay unbetween batches once in a while to make it with this but it is lacks the proteins and sugars to keep the bacteria growing and fed for effective probiotic purposes.