Posted , 33 users are following.
Hello
i have been using this drug for many years without problems, but recently I have begun to experience side effects which include swelling hands, ankles and calves.
aching legs and feeling very tired most of the time.
i am going to ask my GP if I can come off of this drug, I am interested in other forum members experience with this perticular drug.
thanks
3 likes, 100 replies
We want the community to be a useful resource for our users but it is important to remember that the community are not moderated or reviewed by doctors and so you should not rely on opinions or advice given by other users in respect of any healthcare matters. Always speak to your doctor before acting and in cases of emergency seek appropriate medical assistance immediately. Use of the community is subject to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy and steps will be taken to remove posts identified as being in breach of those terms.
david46001 PC_Plod
Posted
I am a 72 years old and was prescribed Amlodipine around 4 years ago and although it worked well initially for the last 3 years I have been experiencing increasingly severe side effects. These included breathing difficulties when doing anything even mildly strenuous, such as walking uphill, seriously hot and painful swollen ankles and feet, bruising after even a slight knock and generally feeling slow and old. Every time I complained to my GP I was sent for more tests but never was any alternative suggested. Eventually I told my GP that I wasn't going to take them any more and the ball was in his court so he was forced to offer me Indapamide (thiazide dieuretic) as an alternative. This was two months ago.
The result was a revelation, I can now rush uphill and feel ten years younger and with a far more positive attitude to life. Here is a list of other symptoms that I no longer have and in many cases didn't even realise were linked to Amlodipine:
Heavy and difficult breathing with even mild exertion
Inability to progress in any fitness regime
Slowness in physical movement and thinking
Thin fragile skin easily bruised leading to extensive echimosis
Severe itching after bathing or showering
Severely swollen ankles and feet needing to buy larger size shoes
Nasal imflammation with regular nose bleeds and sinus pain
All of these side effects and more have disappeared and I am still improving in my fitness although I still have some peripheral neuropathy and pain in my feet.
And my average blood pressure as measured with a GP provided 7 day monitor is 133/80 - better than when I was taking Amlodipine!
Feeling I'm getting my life back now!
broadsword david46001
Posted
lucy63088 david46001
Posted
This is great news ! So brilliant you have your life back ! Good luck with the exercise !
Many thanks for your message it's a great help
Best wishes
Lucy
thegirlsnanna PC_Plod
Posted
peter2659 PC_Plod
Posted
Hello there - I am wife Marion speaking for Peter as he does not do the computer thing. Peter has taken Exforge 5/160 for many years without problems. His dosage was then upped to 10/320 for a year or so and then switched over to the generic Amlodipine/Valsart 10/320. This now spans probably 15 years. Since he has had rashes on his back for about 10-15 years, we didn't think too much about it as every dermatologist we went to said he had "dry skin." About three years ago (shortly after the switch to generic stuff) the rash spread covering entire back, legs, upper arms = full body, horrendous bruising with blood pooling under skin... ankles swelling and diagnosed as gout (which did seem to respond to gout meds)
Three years ago went back to GP who did the prescribing for gout... and said find a dermatologist, who immediately injected Kenalog which seemed to help for a month or so. He did the 'you're allergic to something' routine - stop laundry soap, bar soap, colored clothing, shampoo,etc. Then sent us off to the allergist who did patch testing, injections, etc for about 6 months and found nothing substantial... 6 months of light therapy = nothing. In the past 3 years, he has had over 16 Kenalog inj. ending at 60 mg (very high dose) and it now doesn't do too much and only lasts 3 weeks. Finally the derm (who had diagnosed "Eczema"
after two biopsies done one year apart... said 'no more Kenalog and suggested we find an allergist who would agree to do eczema injections of Dupixent (not covered by insurance, and $36,000/year). So we switched to a different allergist who would agree if it was appropriate. This allergist said he questioned the dx=eczema as medical history really did not support it and blood tests were no supportive either. Retest again did not support an IgE indicative of eczema.
In the meantime, we had gone to a hematologist who determined he had hemachromatosis (way too much iron) did 2 phlebotomies, and he now has normal ferritin counts - but still the full body rash continues.
Original dermatologist had said 2 1/2 years ago that he would take up to the local Dermatology Society for a review with the Board to see if they could figure out what all this was about - but after the new allergist questioned the dx = eczema, he has not responded to my requests to go that route. So we hunted down a new derm.... he took one look and said 'this is NOT hives, it is NOT eczema, it is not a contact rash, and it did not look like any allergy to foods, etc. After asking what drugs do you take? Amlodipine/Valsart 10/320. He looked at the pathology reports for the two previous biopsies and said "these do NOT support eczema." IT IS THE Amlodipine. He took 4 more biopsies, hoping that they may show something more conclusive... as he was leaving the exam room, he said to the nurse = " 99% sure, it's the drug" --- even though he cautioned NOT to stop taking the stuff until we saw a cardiologist and get a replacement rx, we did stop it two days ago... but we do take his blood pressure 3 times a day to monitor. Maybe it's just our imaginations but the rash appears to be subsiding already, but not the swollen ankles. Let's see if the blurry vision, foggy memory, etc. improves as well.
If this truly turns out to be the Amlodipine, it will be a true revelation and then I will got into the "How could it be that Peter suffered for over three years without anyone discovering this?" - not to mention the enormous expense in time traveling to dr. appts. and $$$ paid out by insurance companies.
Sorry for this long story but it just reconfirms all of your own stories.
debra16694 peter2659
Posted
Hi there Marion - First off I am so sorry for all the inconvenience and suffering this has caused for your husband. Although it wasn't Amlodipine that caused a horrific undiagnosed rash for my husband, we are convinced his horrible rash was started by the statin drug Lipitor. It is a similar story, 5 dermatologists, 2 allergists and 2 Drs later & many many injections and since he stopped the Statin and Ibprophen he has had no more rash. I truly believe that some RX's clearly are toxic to some people.
As far as your husband's situation, I am very curious to see if his condition improves over the coming weeks. Amlodipine had caused most all of the same symptoms your husband has with me, minus the extreme rash. I did develop a rash on my lower calves but it did not itch, it was just unsightly and paired well with my extreme swollen ankles... Ugh! It's just terrible the side effects this drug has had on people and after 5 years on it & 70 days off I can tell you it still has some lasting impacts. I am praying I return to my old self soon. Oh & if you search this forum, you will see that many people suffered for years with symptoms & for the most, their Drs never ever looked at the drug as causing these problems. My dr wanted to put me on anti depressants & to for me to take anti-anxiety. Thank god I refused both of those drugs cuz then I probably would have never discovered the real culprit. I wish your husband luck in his recovery, I do believe he will feel great relief soon being off the Amlodipine, it does take time the longer you have been on it - Good Luck!
anthony51986 debra16694
Posted
kenamin PC_Plod
Posted
my right feet swelled and feeling very tired and itch as well.
my GP told me to stop taking today and see what happen.
david46001 kenamin
Posted
peter2659 PC_Plod
Posted
Update of Peter's condition and experience over the past nine months since my first report:
After the dermatologist with suggestion of allergic reaction to Amlodipine/Valsartin, we discontinued it and followed very closely with BP monitoring while awaiting a consult with a cardiologist for appropriate substitute BP drug... about 2 weeks away. Rash did not subside, BP remained steady, but ankles became severely swollen, dizzy, confusion, then BP lowered drastically, pulse rate went up, blurred vision, shaking and uncontrolled chills. We held out for the cardiologist... the minute he saw Peter, he said "get to the hospital, and do not go home first." Every specialist known to man examined and the only thing they could come up with was possible adrenal insufficiency after 3-4 days in-patient. Rheum. thought a possible auto-immune component - which (after 2 add'l rheum. opinions) was ruled out. While in-hosp, massive amounts of Prednisone were administered orally, infusion, etc. and he stabilized... returned home to continue on Prednisone orally. Every physician agreed to follow-up with the Santa Barbara Derm. Society review for a group evaluation, which occurred 3 weeks later. Peter was the only patient in attendance with 20+ derms examining personally and listening to the whole sordid story over and over again.
About a week or so later we received their opinion. RSS = red skin syndrome = TSA = topical steroid addiction and withdrawal. We were referred to the foremost authority (Dr. Marvin Rappaport) in Beverly Hills and told to immediately stop the Prednisone cold-turkey. We did not do that - but we did keep weaning down the dosage as per orders by the other physicians at hospital. When we finally got the visit with Rappaport (Jan. 2018), he concurred with the Society opinion and instructed complete stop of Pred. and return to him one week later. Over the course of that one week, Peter fell back into the same symptoms that landed him in the hospital in late Sept. so Dr. R. ordered Cyclosporin as substitute for the Pred. which was the only thing that could control the situation. The insurance company refused to fill the rx (on a Friday) and Peter went from bad to worse. We were able to hold on until Monday getting an appointment with local primary physician who said "TAKE THE PRED - or get to the hospital!" and "get to an endocrinologist."
To make a long story short - the current result is adrenal insufficiency caused by the massive doses of Pred - which can only be controlled by continuing the Pred - until it could be weaned to virtually nothing and then switched over to hydrocortisone which would then be weaned to next to nothing until testing could be done to see if the adrenal glands would regain function. We are now a week or two from the end of all of this and the testing.
In the meantime, the UCLA dermatologist working with the UCLA endocrinologist ordered DUPIXENT injections ($36,000/year) to see if they would work to control the rash/eczema - which the insurance did agree to pay for a year... it helps! But a follow-up with the UCLA derm a week or two ago has now found malignant melanoma (after I insisted he remove a new suspicious lesion) - which his wife (another UCLA derm did the deep removal, last week). We will see what happens next... after learning that both UCLA derms are now moving out of the area to go work for USC Med. Group.
It never ends!
debra16694 peter2659
Posted
Hi Marion - Wow! I am so sorry to hear about all this pain and suffering that Peter has endured. Is Peter completely off the Amlodipine & was a new B/P RX ever prescribed? Wow! I live in Santa Barbara, I am assuming you must also - I do hope Peter finds the medical answers that he needs...what a frustrating journey - Wishing him health -
peter2659 PC_Plod
Posted
Thank you Debra, The cardiologist put him on Clonidine and it worked fine, I thought. But the endocrinologist thought that it was not the best choice for some reason. He then switched Peter over to Valsartan with no Amlodipine combo... it works fine too. I am not too sure exactly how the cardiologist is going to feel about the switch if we go back to him at some point. We will take that as it comes.
As it all turns out, I think the main focus for now surrounds the overuse of topical, oral, and injected steroids like Prednisone and Kenalog to quell symptoms of eczema-like issues. It is difficult for these doctors to 'look the other way' when someone comes into their offices with severe rashes (especially full body) and just not use the steroid when they know that it will work - if only for a short while. The problem is that the steroids then create such a horrible set of other issues. In the midst of all of those I mentioned, I forgot to include that they can cause cataracts - which accounts for the blurry vision, I previously mentioned... On our way back home (Newbury Park) from the Santa Barbara Derm Society, it became apparent that Peter should not have been driving at all. He had developed such bad cataracts in both eyes, an opthalmologist in Thousand Oaks did a rush double surgery on both eyes in December. He is fine and can see great now but it is just too curious that it all came together at the same time.
The overuse of steroids is a fascinating subject that seems to be the common thread in so many underlying problems... but I am not sure that doctors and patients could/would deny their use as they DO work quickly for a bevy of symptoms for which no immediate cause can be found.
I can emphatically say that every Prednisone tablet and every steroidal cream (like Triamcinolone) is safely locked away in this house - never to be used again... unless, of course, Peter goes into another round of adrenal insufficiency. We will see in a few weeks if he can take the medic alert bracelet off and think about a vacation.
debra16694 peter2659
Posted
peter2659 debra16694
Posted
Debra, Thanks again for the well wishes! At this point, I think it is virtually impossible to really say definitively that the Amlodipine started the 'full body rash' - which is really the symptom that needed attention first... many years ago. The original derm (in 2015) did ask what meds he was on at the time and we did discontinue one which was basically a diuretic - but he never had a concern about the Amlodipine/Valsartin. Since neither my hubby nor I ever sought med. attn. for issues we did not consider unbearable, our Drs. usually knew we needed help in a hurry. So the Kenalog injection was the relief chosen for him given the state of his entire body when we presented to him. He then went down the road of allergies... which we felt was a waste of time, but did it. Had we tried the elimination of the Amlo. earlier, we may have found out if it was the initial cause, but we will never know now.
We also went down so many other roads - oncology, rheumatology, diet, etc. - all while taking the Kenalog - and it always came back. We have absolutely no real answer even now but the Dupixent helps even though it does not eliminate (it is bearable). Like SLE (systemic lupus erythmatous) the current plan is to control the symptom w/o creating something worse... and I might add that the general treatment for SLE is again the dreaded Pred.
I have a feeling that we will find out what the cause is/was some day. But if a tough retired firefighter and a wife who worked in medical insurance for over 30 years tracking treatments and acceptable modes of therapy since the late 1960's cannot find an answer to a "rash" - it is not surprising that medical professionals have a tough job and cannot 'work miracles.'
One final point here might be that Dr. Marvin Rappaport in Beverly Hills may be quite the character - but he is so very passionate about his RSS/TSA, maybe it is a good read - even tough we were unable to continue his suggested regimen... Peter would not have survived it... but if I had a child with the same issues, I would have probably followed his advice, given a lifetime of addiction.
wendy25910 PC_Plod
Posted
ron31137 wendy25910
Posted
I have just written a long reply to your post and then suddenly lost the lot, doh! so here is an abbreviated version.
I'm old and have learnt not to take any "expert" too seriously, most of the time they are wrong, check that out.
Learn how to relax, try Mindfulness, article by Nick Wignall, there are plenty of others too.
Beware Amlodopine, I'm on Ramipril, Doxazosin and a water tablet Indapamide, but hope to reduce all by natural means.
Amlopodine made my lower legs swell, so I'm off it, beware!
Most important though, find out about Mindfulness and stop worrying, Good Luck.
anthony51986 ron31137
Posted
Hi , ron31137,
the water tablet is it bendrofluazide, of all the tablets we take to flush out our kidneys, have a look what water tablets cause , big one is Gout, then potassium, magnesium, electrolytes , i been on blm for over twenty years & water tabs is the worst , if like me your getting on a bit (me 70) then enlarged prostate another tablet contiflo xl even more urine loss,
Am now fully fledged Hypochondriac
anthony51986
Posted
wendy25910 ron31137
Posted
Thank you for all of the great advice! I read the article on Mindfulness, and will give it a try! When I first starting taking the Amlodipine, my lower legs, and feet where tingling constantly. I felt pain with each step! Now, it seems like a dull ache. But what is worse, my blood pressure hasn't gone done enough to the acceptable levels of my doctor! Very unhappy! I might want to try the Indapamide. You are the second person who has used it, hopefully without swelling or tingling. Amlodipine is such an energy zapper! I don't know if it helps anyone with high blood pressure. Reducing stress, trying mindfulness, reducing the sugar and salt in my diet, getting back into exercise is really what I need to do!
debra16694 wendy25910
Posted
Hi Wendy - Funny, I had been on Amlodipine for 5 years & in about the 3rd year of taking the Amlodipine, my drs added irbesartan HctZ because obviously my B/P was still not optimal. I might add that during this period I was dealing with extreme personal stress so then my dr pushed up the Amlodipine to 10mg. Well, I was really feeling yucky for so long (wasn’t sure if it was menopause/stress or ?) but when I got put on the 10mg, my feet swelled up like balloons & I could hardly walk - zero zilch energy. I took myself off ALL amlodipine after finding this forum & oddly enough, my blood pressure actually came down. I think the amlodipine was just too toxic for my body. I have been off of it for a year now, still on irbesartan and I seem to handle that ok. My b/p is about 140/78 & for my age, I can deal with that. I take beet root capsules & magnesium & I just read that valerian root helps lower b/p. Removing sugar, carbs & stress is key, but challenging for sure - good luck!
wendy25910 debra16694
Posted
I am so sorry for all that you have been through! Anybody should know that under stressful situations that your blood pressure is going to be high. It is only natural, and sometimes, doctors don't want to admit this; they just want to up the mg of your medicine. All this does is make the side effect worse!!! Until the stress is gone, the blood pressure will remain high. I am glad that you found a remedy for your problem. I have been using Superbeets but not long enough to see results yet. Thanks for replying!
debra16694
Posted
Hi Wendy - I might add that my sister in law is on Amlodipine, & has been on it for some time & has no side effects whatsoever - so, obviously, certain RX’s affect people differently. I just don’t want to be on any of them!!! Take care!
ron31137 anthony51986
Posted
Hi anthony51986
Many thanks for all the information and sorry for delayed response.
Yes like you I am getting on (71).
I now flip from hypochondria to thinking to hell with it all!
"Water tablets the worst", well on the bright side I suppose, I've only just started on them!
Although I have just found a small lump on the sole of my foot...Gout? i hope not!
As well as doing mindfulness, I am researching someone called Wim Hof or "The Iceman", who holds at least one world record for sitting in ice cold water for nearly 2 hours without his core temperature decreasing!
He has also climbed Everest dressed in only a pair of shoes and shorts!
What he does is similar to the monks in the Himalayas, who sit out at night on the mountain side, wrapped in soaking wet sheets and dry them off by generating internal heat.
His technique involves breathing exercises and a certain type of meditation and experiencing periods of cold. You can start by taking cold showers which is as far as I've got!
It's supposed to boost everything to do with your health, can't remember for sure whether it can bring down bp, I'll have to check.
It seems that anyone can learn his techniques.
Sounds a bit extreme I know, but maybe worth a look.
wendy25910 debra16694
Posted
It is great that your sister in law is on it, and it doesn't affect her! Wish we were the same way! I would like to know though, with those of us who do have the bad side effects of swelling, (I am also getting very cold feet and hands along with some swelling and tingling.) do these side effect ever go away? Doctors and pharmacists will tell me that hopefully in 2 or 4 weeks, my side effects should end. They claim it takes that long for our bodies to get used to the medicine. But is this really true? Has anyone's bad side effect diminished or gone away completely? Thanks!
david46001 wendy25910
Posted
The side effects were minimal to start with but the longer I was on this the worse they became. I'm thankfully fully returned to "normal" and on indapamide now.
anthony51986 ron31137
Posted
Hi Ron, i don't have gout in big toe ,but the wrist , plus i have just came back from Gastrologist consultant to be told i have not got Crohn's disease, (after treatment for over three years) but i might have WAIT FOR IT ,TB of the bowel ,according to him TB of the bowel can mimic Crohn's ,and very hard to tell the difference,(i had TB when a child) and can lay dormant for decades , to which i told hospital on the form you fill in over three years ago (the form u fill in stating all your previous illnesses ) but guess he just ignored that, water tablets dose not help with vitamin K ether , if on the news you here of a man on top of Snowdon wrapped in wet blankets please ring the men in white coats .
anthony51986 wendy25910
Posted
anthony51986 ron31137
Posted
debra16694 wendy25910
Posted
Hi Wendy - After I stopped Amlodipine my swelling in my ankles & feet disappeared within a week & overall “puffiness” from edema disappeared within 2 weeks. However, I still experience tingling in my hands and have now developed within the last six months a burning sensation in my back, chest, front of my calves & tops of my feet. Now I am not certain if this is due to plunging hormones, nerve damage from Amlodipine or something more sinister. I have been tested for Carcinoid Syndrome & tested negative (thank you lord). I am really at my wits end. When I post my symptoms in the menopause forum, there are other woman who do do experience the “burning sensation” & I hope that that is what it is & not some horrible nerve damage from amlodipine use. I took amlodipine for 5 years & I must say that even though it’s been 1 year off, I feel forever changed from that drug...it’s just not a good one -
ron31137 anthony51986
Posted
Hi Anthony, If you hear on the news of a man on top of Snowdon wrapped in wet blankets, please don't ring the men in the white coats, it might be me! One thing in favour of Wim is that he takes his own treatment, how many doctors that you know do that? Sorry to hear that you were treated for 3 years for something that you didn't have. It kind of reinforces though what I think about doctors, I just don't trust 'em! If you end up feeling the same way, we may yet meet up there, where it's a bit nippy
ron31137 debra16694
Posted
debra16694 ron31137
Posted
ron31137 debra16694
Posted
Hi Debra - You're very welcome, thanks for your kind remarks. From what you say about faith, I guess that you have heard of LOA and know that, what you want has already been given, you just need to relax and let it in. Well that's the theory and anyway, as a last resort, there's always Wim
anthony51986 ron31137
Posted
anthony51986 ron31137
Posted
Hi ron , funny but the story about Wim , when in Abergele Sanatorium with TB ,i have had my bed wheeled out in the snow and fresh air the window next to my bed was never closed ,plus i was born in 47 october one of the worst winters , mam said she couldn't go through that again (having children) so i became a only child
plus she wanted a girl not a boy
, i have noticed hardly anyone mentions the thiazid water tablets on patient ,i am convinced that they are still the worst , my latest health kick is broccoli powder +vitamin d3 
to help with thrombocytopenia + pins needles in feet .
anthony51986 wendy25910
Posted
Systemic Lupus erythematosus, on that well known web starting with W.
it seems water tabs can cause SLE , in women can cause psychiatric problems , mindfulness
,this according to N.I.C.E. , the water tabs cause the stress , all my journeys out side involve is there a toilet nearby to pee , Is that mindfulness 
anthony51986 debra16694
Posted
Hi wendy, here's another one tablet. gabapentin tablets for nerve pain, but don't take them, on reading leaflet , hidden in leaflet .(if in the event of death please notify ) heath care , HOW .if your dead.
wendy25910 debra16694
Posted
ron31137 anthony51986
Posted
Hi Anthony - Thrombo what? I'm not even going to google that, I'd rather not know! But seriously, I think you've just made my case for giving Wim some consideration. I think he said that you have to embrace the cold and that we have shied away from it, as we have become civilised and therebye lost some of our natural vigour. A few hours with the wet sheets and you could be saying goodbye to Thrombowhat's'isname, but possibly hello to frost bite, if you don't know what you're doing! Needs careful research, I'm taking cold showers to start with, that'll do me for a start!
anthony51986 ron31137
Posted
Hi ron ,
check your skin for little red dot's petechiae, could be anywhere on body,
the
hospital in north wales is in a Valley not far from the seafront.
there is not many places where the sea air comes inland and causing a concentrated Ionized air effect up the valley.
It is like being under or near a waterfall ,or just after a thunderstorm ,
it is not like one of those electric devices a air ionizer.
maybe Wim is trying to create the same effect .
i think we are going to experience this effect very shortly if the heat breaks and thunderstorms come in UK .
how many times will you here a last we can breath , lol.
anthony51986
Posted
ron31137 anthony51986
Posted
Hi anthony, still here and sorry for the delay, other calls on my time.
I'm pretty sure that Wim didn't mean the beneficial effect of positive ions, that you experienced at the hospital near the sea.
What he is refering to is the benefits of an aquired skill, as practiced by the adepts in monastries in the mountains.
The Mistral was interesting, I had thought that it was a hot wind, but now realise that it is cold and brings clear very skies and better weather.
I'll be on the lookout for those little red dots and continuing with the cold showers. I just relax into them, although they're not that cold just now, but it's a start.
Good luck with the Broccoli powder and vitamin D3 and stay cool!
Ron
PS I wonder if hot and cold therapy on limbs, would help bring down the swelling?
Must give it a try
ron31137 anthony51986
Posted
I think I mean negative ions don't I ...duh!
anthony51986 ron31137
Posted
Hi ron , the story of Wim might not be as daft as i first thought , having read about , two weeks in the mountains can change your blood for months , it seems high altitude can increase red blood cells, when returning at or just above sea level , was that why muhammad ali , trained at high altitude before a boxing match , & the Microaerophilic conditions caused by low oxygen( room oxygen) ,it seems the benefits could last for months ,
Ron i have sent PM for the link , as i don't think Patient would allow on the forum , ( just love that word Microaerophilic lol) . ?
ron31137 anthony51986
Posted
Hi Anthony
Another long delay, sorry.
I went to the web address and looked at a couple of articles, but the impression I got was of all the dangers of living long term at high level, if you weren't born to it. Increased haemoglobin levels, but accompanied with danger of pulmonary oedema and other things. Perhaps the benefits are limited to short visits, provided you take it easy, although Wim doesn't look the type to worry too much about that! Microwhatsisname, yes well, perhaps you'd better stop reading those doctors books, in case you come across a condition you can't pronounce LOL, but I think I see what you mean about low levels of oxygen. Needs very careful thought though, in case you end up wishing that you hadn't bothered. I do remember when I was young how good I felt when I went skiing, but that was a long time ago. Just as an aside, I've recently found a book by Allen Carr of The Easy Way to Stop Smoking fame, called the Easy Way to Mindfulness. Haven't read it yet, but hope to get round to it.
anthony51986 ron31137
Posted
hi ron, so i guess you wont be going to the everest base camp soon then ,lol , Mindfulness sure they got the name wrong to my mind it should be empty headedness ,didn't the beatles (pop group) go to the himalayas to empty there heads, oh i think richard gere did the same ,lol.on tv few years ago a group of people walked up mount kilimanjaro but the oxygen got to most of them for sport relief or some charity , mind you i got a DVT just going to ibiza on the plane , the stewardess turned the oxygen down to put a group of gay men who was crying that the plane was going to crash ,it was just circulating because runway was blocked ,lol.the lack of oxygen made all of us sleepy but it did calm them down , its been nice talking to you ron , hope mindfulness works for you .
anthony51986
Posted
anthony51986
Posted
ron , that's a good read the Magic Mountain .
ron31137 anthony51986
Posted
Hi Anthony, another of my prompt replies
. Davos, I checked it out a while ago, not sure if you are referring to the meetings, where the elite decide their next move towards the total control of the human race, or the health resort LOL. Whatever I've put the Magic Mountain on my list of books to look out for and did come across it on the David Icke forum. Not a big reader of fiction but will make an exception if I find it in the library. Funny you should mention low levels of oxygen on a plane as I came across a video of Tom Cruise going on the Letterman show talking about just that and now it makes sense. I'll send a PM just in case you find it funny as I did. Always good to finish on a laugh. All the best
anthony51986 ron31137
Posted
Hi ron , thanks for that i did go to pm,
talking about David Icke brought me to another far out story,
about Davos , During the second world war the Germans found the Ark of the Covenant in Africa (yes i know raiders of the lost ark) lol. but they are supposed to have brought it back &It is believed to be in Davos ,
2,000,000 years ago one of the Tribes in the Rift Valley invented a substance that brings Enlightenment & health benefits that is contained in the Ark , Just me but closest i can get is Manna the food that helped the Jewish people eat to escape from Egypt carried in a wooden box . (and you thought David Icke was out there with the Fairies lol )
But aside all that my latest is Citrulline Malate , i blame amlodipine for sending me Do Lally , plus waiting for Oxygen Generator from China think thats coming by pack mule . nice having a laugh with you ron .