Morning Anxiety : Could it be a mini withdrawal?
Posted , 8 users are following.
Just thinking out loud...
I know that cortisol is higher in the morning, it starts to build in the early hours and therefore can contribute to early awakening and morning anxiety.
But I've also been wondering if the fact that it's been 24 hours since the last dose of Citalopram maybe there's a mini withdrawal scenario that's exacerbating the problem?
Also thinking it might affect those on a low dose more than those on a high dose.
0 likes, 148 replies
Charlie_T
Edited
I'm afraid I've blown the experiment by switching dose, dropping down to 7.5mg has caused severe effects including insomnia so it's skewing the results.
From the first few days of switching back to taking at night I did sleep better and my waking anxiety was lower, I think there is something in this for me, but perhaps not for everyone. Whether it's the sedative effects persisting through the night or whether it's the level of neurotransmitters etc I don't know but for anyone who struggles with waking anxiety AND doesn't have issues taking Cit at night I'd recommend trying it. I also know that studies have shown that a dose of medication can alter the stress response within a few hours, so perhaps that's also in play.
I do wonder whether there's a more pronounced effect at lower doses, studies have shown that changes in dose at the lower end of the scale have a larger effect on serotonin transporter blocking so maybe the decrease in levels between taking the medication is having a larger effect over 24 hours?
Maybe that's why some people spread their dose over the day?
I'm in a quandary now, 1 week into the lower dose and feeling terrible, I could go back to 10mg and try tapering again but I'd really need liquid to go in smaller steps, or I could carry on...if only I knew this dose would settle soon!
Guest Charlie_T
Posted
When did you stop the mirtzapine if it is withdrawal think even with anti depressants it can last for months. Problems with sleeping does seem quite common with anti depressants that's the one thing that has been OK so far. I had years of not being able to sleep, I did find the more you worried about the worse it got. Morning anxiety seems very common as well. Sorry you are struggling with lowering the dose think each change of dose take a couple of weeks or so to adjust to .
Charlie_T Guest
Edited
Stopped mirtazapine last Autumn after 18 months on it at 15mg, I knew nothing about the discontinuation effects and assumed it was anxiety so went to the GP who thought the same, hence the Citalopram. Basically I was fine until my sleep went downhill and everything piled on top of that.
Also wondering whether 18 months of taking a powerful antihistamine then removing it over a few weeks messed some stuff up e.g. I got really congested and and some itching! I'm over 3 stone lighter though!
If I can sleep, then I'm generally ok, but I can feel my sanity slipping this week.
I'm 1 week into the drop, I need to see some improvement or I'll have to think about a small increase maybe alternate 7.5mg and 10mg.
katecogs Charlie_T
Posted
How long have you been on Citalopram Charlie
toria_07298 Charlie_T
Posted
i havent slept through a night for over 2 years so i feel your pain x
Charlie_T katecogs
Posted
Almost 5 months, I know it can take longer for some people, if an SSRI is what they need. It was a similar story with Sertraline a few years ago for me, although I stuck that for longer.
Charlie_T
Edited
Still feeling terrible, sleep was the worst it's been last night, felt very hot, almost prickly heat in my chest most of the night.
Can't believe how quickly I've gone downhill, Sunday was pretty normal, I was outside having fun, now I feel like it's the end of the world!
I do think the muscle spasms are less though, so maybe this is going in the right direction for me.
Guest Charlie_T
Posted
Have you tried chamomile tea I find it helps also read a book for about 1/2 hour beefore trying to sleep. I never sleep through night havent done for about 14 years given up on that but normally get about 5 hours in total nowadays which is fine. The OCD not great tonight but managed to go to shops for food this morning so generally after week of weaning off a slight improvement.Think Toria said you can get liquid meds might be able to decrease by smaller amounts with that.
Charlie_T Guest
Edited
Thanks for the reply, yep, I've got chamomile tea and I have a cup every evening around 9PM 😃
I know this is temporary and that it's the lower dose, just feels like forever 😦
Charlie_T
Edited
Update today, just in case anyone's following this or to maybe help others in future...
Took 7.5mg last night (dose reduction around 9 days ago) at around 11.30pm and fell asleep quickly. Woke a couple of times but went back to sleep, final proper wake up around 8am and then, because I could for the first time in months, dozed for another hour! (should have got up, dozing makes me feel worse but just couldn't resist!)
So maybe the dose change effects are wearing off, we'll see. I have noticed less muscle spasms since dropping.
On the original topic, I'm pretty convinced taking at night helps me with sleep and waking anxiety, of course the two are linked so maybe that's it.
Guest Charlie_T
Posted
Maybe I'll take mine a bit later usually take about 6pm see if that helps with the morning anxiety and sleeping.. Glad you are improving a bit anyway
Charlie_T Guest
Posted
Worth a try, hope it goes ok!
Guest Charlie_T
Posted
How did you wean off the mirtzapine? i'm thinking maybe drop the dose every 3-4 weeks as keen come off them as never had the OCD type compulsions before taking them and dropping 2.5 mg each time. They have quite long half life so hopefully be better than zopiclone. Slept bit better so will take them later. How are you?
Charlie_T Guest
Edited
"Incorrectly" is probably the best description!
I stayed with 15mg as the GP at the time said you couldn't split as the ingredients may not be evenly distributed across the tablet - I don't think this is correct!
So I started skipping days e.g. every other day for a while, then every 2 days, then every 3 etc.
Then once I was about 4 days, I just stopped. I don't remember how long I tapered for maybe a couple of months but as I didn't have any withdrawals I didn't really pay attention.
Withdrawal hit a few weeks after stopping i.e. insomnia!
(you did mean Mirtazapine, right?)
I'm ok today, thanks, sleep wobbly as took ages to drop off but mood ok-ish.
Guest Charlie_T
Posted
Yes meant the mirtzapine, some things say just cut the dose other skip days similar to what you did bit confusing! I'm keen come off them as made me a lot worse but don't want trigger whole load withdrawal symptoms. I was made to go cold turkey off zopiclone and withdrawal hit really quickly with the intrusuve thoughts, but it's got much shorter half life. Glad you are OK just hoping OCD ease bit asI gradually reduce the dosage!
Charlie_T Guest
Posted
If I did it again I'd taper, not skip.
Hope things get easier for you!
Guest Charlie_T
Posted
Thanks I'll carry on slowly tapering,not too bad today have had few fairly OK days with odd blip . so hopefully once I get off them the intrusive thoughts will go, definitely right thing for me to come off them. I've never heard of them for insomnia, are you staying on them?
Charlie_T Guest
Posted
Sorry, I'm getting confused - are we now talking about Citalopram? If so, then the thinking was that anxiety caused the insomnia and therefore tackle that.
My gut feel is to come off, but who knows what's right!
Guest Charlie_T
Posted
Sorry thought you said you took them to help with insomnia from mirtzapine withdrawal. My mistake read it wrongly. I'm glad I'm coming off them as made things worse for me. Good luck whatever you decide to do.