neck pain

Thank you Jean

 

Hi Christine

You are welcome.

Jeanx

Thank you Jean, much appreciated - I will look them up! xxx

Hi Terry,  Yes my neck hurts throughout the day too, pain comes on like a spasm for various lengths of time then just goes.  I dont know about being centred but it sometimes feels swollen. Will be mentioning this to doctor on Monday too - I have a list as long as my arm!!

Diane 

is your neck pain at the back of neck 

mine is .. Okay when laid down..

mines stiffness - when moving up and down .. 

😟

Hello Jayneejay!  Well it kind of feels linked to a newish back pain, up right side spreading to below shoulders then into right side of neck. I dont have to be moving for it to hurt but even just a wee tilt can cause pain.

its gurts all the time and appears that its swollen .....its like a reall dull constant ache and its driving me nuts

Yep.. It sort of spreads into back of shoulders ..

😟

Diane

Have you had a ctpa scan of your thyroid. If a goitre it may be pressing on the trachea causing a problem.

Hi Michelle

Pls see my response to Diane. Have you had a ctpa scan of your thyroid?

Try this. Stand in front of a mirror. Have a drink of water. Look for any swelling or a lump in your neck.

Hi Jean, no I have had nothing but a set of blood tests done about a month ago - hence why I am going back to see doctor on Monday. After any other blood tests over the years came back "normal", I just battled on but this is taking over my life now, I have absolutely nil energy, exhausted but have difficulty sleeping for more than a couple of hours at a time if that, all over body pain, "jumpy legs", dry thinning hair - also noticed the last few years balding patches in eyebrows and losing eyelashes, dry skin, breathlessness if walking up even a slight slope and if walking any longer than about 20 minutes / half an hour, agonising pain in my lower legs and ankles. Shoot me now please!  The only thing that hasnt changed is my mood, I dont feel particularly emotional, am definitely not depressed - I keep asking my partner if he has noticed any difference but he hasnt so thats something I suppose....

Thanks Jean, I will do that tonight. xx

 

Hi Diane

The sign and symptom of breathlessness needs investigating. That is why a CTPA scan was ordered by a hospital. As I keep saying that showed as an incidental finding qa multinodular goitre. I had previously been told by hospital drs that my breathlessness was due to anxiety. The old cop out.

 sleep with several pillows propping me up . Perhaps you could explain in more detail about your breathlessness especially when lying flat and keep waking up.

You may have a goitre which is pressing on the trachea. I do not intend to worry you but the breathlessness cannot be dismissed.

My CTPA was done using a contrast medoium otherwise the goitre may not have shown up. However I am not an expert in nuclear medicine or radiology so cannot speak with any certainty. I had had a VQ scan whereby a radio isotope was used one hour preceding the CTPA scan. Sorry to keep going on and on about it.

 

Please inquire about a scan of your thyroid. If it is normal at least you have a baseline.

Diane, Michelle, Christine and Jay

Also google Thyroid, flouroquinolones and their link to thyroid disorders.

Try floxiehope.

The signs and symptoms of antibiotic toxicity are remarkably similiar to those of thyroid disorders. I am not an expert so please excuse my loose 

terminology.

I have this but also have bulging discs in the cervical and lumbar vertebrae which can also cause neck pain. However I think that this is connected with the thyroid problem,because of the timing of the nset of all these acute nasty signs and symptoms.

My neck was in spasm as well as my scapula all the way to mid back. I've had two frozen shoulders. Also have Hashimotos   The constant muscle spasms were awful until I found a tool at relax the back called a Theracane  I then found  a website showing how to find pressure/trigger points that matched where my pain was. It was like I was frozen throughout my neck and shoulder. I eventually went thru the same thawing process as I had with the shoulders. Coincidentally my doctor had cut my thyroid meds in half soon after this started. I didn't sleep for a year. Muscle spasms can become a muscle habit if you don't get them stopped. The website for treating your muscle spasms will be in my next post...have to find it. You can also use a tennis ball or a myofascia release ball with this websites help but read everything  it says before you start !

hi Jean 

oh nooo.. i have 3 bulging disks .. lumbar ... they were awful in Feb couldnt move hardly ... ooooooch' then got shingles too..

had a scan etc .. 

have an extra fused disk & vertebrae too .. long tail bone like a monkey..

oh the joys 😟

jay x

Jay

Bulging discs can account for neck pain and painful muscular spasms and peripheral neuropathy . I went to physio privately after having an MRI scan which identifid the bulging discs and also an annular tear between L4/5.

Physios assessed me then did some gentle stretching exercises as I have the dreaded osteoporosis.

Another physio said that the neuropathy was due to medication as well. Several drs including consultant endo has said the same. Namely antibiotics, statins, phenytoin, valsartan and a beta blocker.

I was advised to have Pilates, hydrotherapy, physio, TENS machine and to pull in my umbilicus very gently. All these were recommended in order to build/strengthen the core muscles. My feet were and still are in spasm just like plantar faciitis. I understand that all this is due to lack of vit D and a severe Vit D deficiency disorder. I also have tetany spasms of both feet and ankles periodically where it feels like my feet are being severed.

I am just hoping hope against hope that this new diagnosis of multinodular goitre can be successfully treated,

Jean

Hi Terry

I am in a similar position except I did not sleep for five nights in December 2013.I will look the website up. How are you now?

Jean

hello Jean 

oh arent we a right pair ..

i had PHN with shingles ... pain was awful all over body for weeks, not been right since this was February ..

i have stiff ankles too, achilles .. if i sit and get up i walk like a penguin for ten minutes ..

i am only 113LB ( 8st 11 ) 5'6 so not at all due to weight, or anything ..

cant put weight on... 

i use to be so active, 300 sit ups twice a day, rowing machine daily etc.

now ... i havent the energy.. or the interest... 

for last 2 weeks i have been having hunger pains, i always eat little and often and eat healthy, fruit, and good diet etc.. dont drink alcohol, dont smoke ..  this hunger pain thing is a nightmare.. even after eating it starts, but being hypoglycaemic can cause that and fatigue, hot flushes etc and hot flushes returned last summer after none for years.. ( i was having 20 plus a day) and they are beginning again ( summer beginning ) heat never bothered me before .. 

i been painting the house, normally love it, but have to do abit at a time now, crazy, feel like i am falling apart at the seams ..

' we need quality of life ' 

going back to thyroid , mines being monitored .. my mother has underactive thyroid and has been on thyroxine for 30 years ..

jay x

 

This is incredible.My story is identical to yours. You have still not told me when you started with these signs and symptoms.

I would like to know so I can work out if I have left things too late and if it is worthwhile even starting any treatment. This illness is one of the worst imaginable. I FEEl as though I am sitting on rocks all the time. I dread going to bed but for about six weeks have been worn out and staying in bed until 9am when previously I was up at 7am.

These spasms are literally driving me mad. I  lost interest in life itself but

this is improving slightly. I spoke to a nurse practitioner today who assured me that all these signs and symptoms are due to thyroid disorder. I do not yet know whether it is hyper or hypo or a combo of both.

 I am unable to make sense of hwich blood tests nneed doing.I do not mind paying frot them to be done.I just want to feel better. This has been going on for years but worsened since \\\\dec 2013. I will be glad when it is all over.

hello Jean 

its hard for me to say when it started for sure ..

at first i thought it was just peri menopause ( was an early peri gal) had a 9-10 year peri .. and now 19 months post meno age 50 .. ( 51 in June) 

i put it all down to that until i feb when i had severe back pain and shingles a week later ( blisters on the butt cheek) 

i had a couple of spots blisters on same butt cheek at christmas. but ignored it, thought something ( mozzy) had bitten me, then i had the 3 bulging disks after twisting one day, then these blisters came back, same place, showed doctor and he said thats shingles and said that explained the severe all over pain.

as you may know, we all have shingles laying dormant in our nerves, and it just takes something, stress, trauma, illness to trigger it off ..

so i actually had two attacks of shingles in two months .. 

anyway long story slightly short, after this then all the other has come to light after tests.. thyroid, B12, Vit D 

i did have an Adrenal check, Cortisol etc .. but one test has to be redone as my blood was too thick. i got the cortisol checked though.

i blamed menopause, but not the case ...

i dont take HRT ( cant and wont ) so just thought it was that menopause as symptoms so similar ..

jay x

Hi Jay

Do you feel as if you are sitting on rocks?

I had physio which helped. One of the exercises was raising each ln turn whilst lying on top of the bed.

This pulls  bit on the back but stretches the nerves presumably the sciatic nerve which can become traapped due to immobility.

Obviously you had better check all this out with physio first.

Another useful exercise was to pull the abdominal muscles in gently by pulling in the umbilicus but very gently. Physio said this would strengthen the core muscles in the back which in turn would then act as a naturaL splint to support the vertebrae.

 Another exercise I was told to do was to stand up then bend over bqaackwards slightly several times but not to overdo it. No chance of that!

I was also advised re posture. To sit upright, not to lean my head forward as the head puts about three stone of pressure on the spine leading to back,neck and shoulder pain.

I was also told that watching tv , using a laptop were aggravating the back and neck problems.

I also have the signs and symptoms of plantar faciitis but I feel sure that this is due to vit D deficiency dosorder which has possibly triggered off goitre disease. In 2009 I was also diagnosed with hyperparathyroidism and prescribed ergocalciferol My Vit D was NINE. It is now 58. My anas are 1 in 80 positive as well. When the vit d level falls the parathyroid hormone-pth- rises.

What a nightmare.

Jean x

Thanks Jay

I was very interested in what you wrote because your history of some uncertainty when it all started fits in with mine and what I have been told today by a nurse practitioner.

I had an early menopause following a hysterectomy aged 24 then being left withone ovary. Ten yearrs ago the other ovary was removed as a prophylactic measure and HRT was commenced. This caused blood clots hence being discontinued but not for eleven months despite chest pains.

Then about seven years ago legs were numb and gait unsteady. No answrs.

n Dec 2013 everything went worse very dramatically following prescribing of thtree anibiotcs for an unibestgated chest infection.

I started with heaviness and coldness of the legs just three days after being prescribed the abs.

The rest is history. Hopefully this goitre can be treated.

Jeabx

hi jean 

we are very similar in our symptoms and ailments ..

what do you think to magnesium supplements..

i mean chelated magnesium - not the laxative Citrate and Oxide magnesium.

Chelated doesn't upset the stomach .

i shall start mine again before bed tonight  - good for aches and relaxes you too - i am an insomniac, takes ages for me to nod off then always wake .

sometimes need help with the numerous sleepless nights it wears me  out.

also magnesium oil spray is great for aches .. ( used by athletes for pain and football players etc ) i use that on occassion in the arch of my back ..

i dont have physio or anything.. never been suggested.

i did have it years ago for the extra fused disk and vertebrae but nothing helped that - learned to live with it.. 

i can never get comfy, always moving to get comfy, when i am a passenger in the car i have to sit with legs on one side ... cant sit normal.. doesnt help the matter but its more comfy for me..

and queuing at a checkout, oh nooooo i feel all anxious like i am going to pass out,  need to lean on something .. back starts aching, go all stiff ..

jay x

 

useful info 

What are some Signs of 

Magnesium Deficiency...

So lets see what these magnesium deficiency symptoms look like:

Constipation

Hypertension or high blood pressure 

Anxiety 

Depression 

Insomnia 

Fatigue

Sound like anyone that you know??

It's practically the definition of all of the  Symptoms of Fibromyalgia!

Even high cholesterol, diabetes and osteoporosis are related to low levels of magnesium. 

Even some so-called 'Side Effects' of substances are actually due to the Magnesium Depletion that they cause- and are not really 'side effects' in and of themselves.

For instance, you should ALWAYS take Magnesium and Vitamin D together to avoid any of the Vitamin D Side Effects That are (almost always) due to low magnesium!! 

Pain is One of the 

Signs of Magnesium Deficiency

Painful conditions can be due to magnesium deficiency. Especially conditions that are due to tenseness and tightness- even if you don't know that you are tense or tight, if you have these pain conditions, it's likely that you are. Conditions like:

Muscle Cramps 

Chronic Back Pain 

Magnesium for Migraines 

Muscular Pain 

Tendonitis

Fibromyalgia

ANYTHING that makes you tense and tight could potentially be due to magnesium deficiency. Even anger, aggression, ADHD, insomnia and obsessive compulsive disorder are Signs of Magnesium Deficiency until proven otherwise. If you can’t relax or you can’t stop, then it is likely that this is a symptom of magnesium deficiency.

chelated magnesium is the best type, easily absorbed, and doesnt have laxative effect

 magnesium oxide and magnesium citrate has laxative effect and can cause tummy upset .. 

Hi Jay

Yes magnesium relaxes muscles as you say best to take the form that does not cause diarrhea.

However check out any interactions with any other drugs you are taking.

I cannot take the citrate due to warfarin but can take the other types.

PHYSIO.

I would review the situation as physio techniques and ideas change with time so may help you now.

Magnesium oil is good for aches.Another good idea is to have a soak in Epsom salts whuich I believe contain magnesium.

Regarding muscle pain and stiffness when standing. I have this but my physio said if you don't use it you will lose it. I think exercise in moderation plus walking to strengthen the core muscles. This will hurt at first until the muscles that went into spasm due to the pain learn to work again.

This was the explanation given to me by my physio who I have not seen since January due to my having chest pains due to this goitre.

Jean x

 

Should have written 34 not 24.

Hi Jay

Just seen your e mail re magnesium.

You are spot on. Low mag and potassium can also cause Long QT syndrome.

Endo said to have bone profile done, this is calcium , phophate, pth and vit D level.

May need injections of vit D if an absorption problem is suspected.

Jeanx

YES. It does sound like two people I know.

Oh yes

If anyone reads magnesium info always check with current meds they take.

I dont take any meds so no fear there, only vits and supplements.

( normally)

Had a break off them as you know, but sure chelated magnesium helped me personally so just had one 😃

Hope you get some answers on the goitre

Jay x

Thanks Jay.

Jean x

I found a physiatrist dr. Anthony Margherita (not joking with name!) here in St. Louis. My scapula was not working properly. He was the only doctor that even looked at my back!  When I lifted my arms in front of me, my right scapula swung out pulling on my spinal cord which started the spasms. He taped my scapula in the properosition for months and sent me to pt. it has been 7 months of therapy about  a third of that taped while I tried to get muscles to hold scapula properly. 90% better now.   Spasms were solved after many months of agony with just 2 weeks of work on my own. 

Hi Terry

Nothing surprises me anymore where these dr are concerned. I have been through at least twow years of sheerhell with drs not being able to make what should be a relatively simple diagnosis in a hospital setting.

I have been told that my signs ans symptoms were due to anxiety. I pointed out that the physical signs and symptoms were causing anxiety due to drs not being aware of what my diagnosis could possibly be due to.

It was not until very recently when an incidental finding of a multinodular goitre was foun ona CTPA scan that I had evidence that I was not a hypochondriac or insane and that at long last a reason had been found for these horrendous signs and symptoms.

Good on your psychiatrist for senduing you to PT and I bet he or she also had a quiet word with the quack who referred you to the shrink because the medical dr did not know what was wrong so rather than admit his or her ignorancee chose to refer you on under the erroneous guise of a psychiatric patient.

Glad you are now much improved. I know exactly where you are coming from especially in terms of the shoulder problems and spasms. Keep in touch.

Jean

Mine started when a doctor changed my dosage from 4 grains Of Dessicated thyroid to 2 grains, took me offof DHEA and Hormone /vitamin D. I think there is a connection but can't prove it. I too was a bit suicidal and a lot depressed. If you can get the spasms to stop you will get some courage back. My neck and shoulder felt frozen just like my shoulders. My PT told me that therapy would only work if I was not standing when I tried to do therapy. The weight of our heads keeps too much pressure on our neck and spinal cord to be able to have the correct range of motion. Our pt's are much like chiropractors. She stretched my neck while laying down. Not like a. Niro adjustment. Constant pressure to turn my head while she resisted my turning but holding my head in the proper position.   I just woke up one morning unable to turn my head or sit comfortably. Then muscle spasms started. You will have to work hard to find a doctor or therapist who has seen this before.  But first try to stop the spasms and then find someone who is at least familiar with kenisiology taping. You will have to be your own advocate as they won't know what taping helps or hurts. It's not an exact science. I will answer any questions I can for you as you go along. It won't be easy but keep fighting. I do feel human again now   

Terry

What did the PT consist of. My shoulder pain and spasms are debilitating. I avoid certain movements but it is very frustrating and I wish to try to get my life back.

Not a psychiatrist. A physiatrist   Specialist in how the body moves and what is cause of paint. 

Basically exercises to get my range of motion back on my neck without starting spasms up again. Once my scapula was taped in place I was able to do range of motion exercises if I was laying down. Eventuall things started working well enough so that I could hold my head up on my neck properly. Without taping, it didn't work. 

Thanks Terry for this info.

I will search round for a physio who does kenisiology taping.

I fully undertsnad where you are coming from when you write about getting courage if the spasms go. I think it has something to do with getting some control back in our life.

This thyroid disorder is really weird. It is quite true that one feels disconnected from life. Until I was told about the multinofdular goitre I had lost all interest in everything. I was like a zombie and sometimes still am.

The aches and pains are horrific. I had a bad back about 15 years ago but did not suffer any depression or anxiety with it . However the advanced nursing practitioner told me today on the phone that these signs and symptoms are typical of a thyroid disorder and that someting can be done. I can honestly say that I have never experienced anything remotely like this in my life.

At least it proves that depression caan be part and parcel of a physical/hormonal disorder.

Jeanx

Sorry Terry . Here drs tend to blame anything they cannot solve on psychological factors. Jean

Do you still need the taping?

Did you have any peripheral neuropathic pains or burning sensations or spasms in your legs, feet and or ankles?

They do that here. My MRI showed the misalignment clearly and told the doctor my entire back was in spasm. They just didn't know what to do. I was only taped for about two months. Rigid tape for a about two months. Kinesiology tape for about 6 weeks to try to get my muscles to start doing some of the work then weaned me off the tape. I did have neurologist symptoms. Tried oral steroids against my better sense. Believe I had a Tia from them.  Lost speech two times. Don't do steroids!  Spasms in my neck. Tingling in my skull surface. Tingling in my small fingers on bad side. Right ear closed up a lot. Symptoms of Hoerners syndrome but brain scan was negative. 

Please start working on stopping muscle spasms. The longer you have them the harder it is to stop the,  start writing a chronology of symptoms and treatments with results. You will forget half of facts due to neurologist involvement and would not be the greatest historian for the doctor without it. 

I had blinding headaches, throbbing pain in the right eye, anorexia, severe anxiety and depression, tinging aand pulling of my scalp, intolerance to light, feeling unsafe and not wanting to be left alone . 

I too have a vit d deficiency disorder and also secondary hyperparathroidissm treated with ergocalciferol which actually was the wrong type of vit D as I needed D3.

Do you know what causes the tingling and pulling sensations of the scalp?

All these sgns and symptoms were blamed on codeine toxicity even though I was only taking 3 to 4 tablets each WEEK for a dislocated shoulder.

I was advised to seek cbt for support and to avoid codeine, caffeine, stress and to exercise.

My theory is that my immune system was compromised due to an infection and that the three antibiotics that were prescribed for this  uninvestigated chest infection attacked the dna and caused damaged cells to produce even more damaged cells resulting in tendonitis, ingflamed muscles, throbbing knees, ankles and the signs and symptoms of plantar faciitis.

  also had been prescribed perampanel for eopilepsy which caused the pleuritic pain plus severe headaches,

My opinion, hormones cause this problem. The thyroid cascade is very complicated and menopause doesn't help either. It's impossible to get Hashimotos diagnosis in the U.S.   They don't want to treat it unless your test results are extreme. They don't even follow current test ranges. Even labs have not updated the ranges. U.S. Doctors have also been brainwashed by synthetic thyroid manufacturers against dessicated thyroid that includes T3 for those of us whose TSH is low normal but still have all the symptoms because our bodies are u able to use the thyroid hormone we make in our bodies. 

I son't know what the thyroid cascade is. Is it also called the thyroid storm.

Here the NHS copied a model of care called Managed Care imported from USA from a well known insurance company. This involves getting bums off beds asap whether the patient is well enough for discharge is irrelevant. Jean

where do I start?

Most importantly did you find the website I was talking about that teaches you how to stop your muscle spasms yourself!  I think that post was moderated. Start there. If you do not have something like a "Theracane" available to you, get a tennis ball but something like a Theracane is best and much easier. 

There's another device called a Pressure Pointer.  They have the website that explains how to use it. I don't think I can "spell out the website here but I'm sure you know how to find it if you are on this website!  Read and follow their instructions exactly as they say to do.  Work on each trigger point in the morning and in the late afternoon and then take a little nap.  Do this until all pressure points have calmed down. They may flare up off and on. If they do, work the spasm out asap. Now you are in charge!  Take the least amount of pain meds as needed to keep the pain under control according to your doctors instructions. When you aren't working on your muscle spasms, you will need to find someone to help with your thyroid. When you go to a doctor assume they will run bloodwork. Go in the morning if you can and fast after midnight before they draw blood. Read everything you can about thyroid.  The most common thyroid problem is autoimmune Hashimotos. Focus on understanding that type for now. Be good to yourself. 5-10 minutes max on the computer maybe twice a day to start your history of symptoms, tests, treatments and results. Keep all tests and results in a folder with your chronology and take it all with you. Don't leave anything with the doctor except your chronology. They can make copies and you will need those things more than once. Send a copy of the chronology to your appointment t doctor a week ahead of your appointment so they have a week to read it. Looking down will be hard on your neck. Try to call friends instead of texting. Baby your neck until these spasms stop.   There's a lot more but it's a good start!  You can do this!

Terry

I googled teracane and just saw the ad. I will research this again and order one.

I was a nurse but never had these spasms with back pain in the past.

Thanks for the info.

Thanks Terry.

What causes these spasms?

Was it your previous occupation or accident/injury/

 

Hi Diane and Terry

This happens to me too. Do you know why?

I can have this pain then all of a sudden it will go . But why?

It causes some shortness of breath which in itself is worrying. jean

Hi Terry

I can't find the website you are referring to.

Jean

Have made a start on this today. This is therapeutic in itself.

Jean

Shortness of breath is a symptom of hypothyroid. 

Do you know the reason for this Terry.

Jean

Hi Terry

To save me writing it all here, have a look at the new discussion I've started on Hypothyroidism and muscular skeletal problems and see what you think. Barbara

Hi Diane, It's worth getting a copy of your blood test results so you can see what normal really means e.g. are you at the lower or upper range of normal?

Hi Everyone, Shortness of breath can also be a symptom of poor posture - whereby shoulders rounded and thoracic spine moves forward and puts pressure on the lungs.  It is certainly a symptom to get checked out - speak to your doctor/GP about it. It can also be a symptom of heart problems. Though in your case given the other pains it may be more likely to be something else. Best to see doctor to identify cause. 

Physio said beathlessness was due to poor posture. He told me to sit upright with a soft cushion to support the head due to it putting pressure on the spine. He gave me some simple breathing exercises jut deep breathing but without moving the shoulder girdle upwards.Also told me to turn my head from side to side about four times every few hours but not to overdo the exercise as this can caause damage. These exercises should only be done after a comprehensive physio assessment.

 

Hi Terry

I think I have now found the website for the pressure pointer device.

These spasms have been very bad today and so have the throbbing and burning sensations in both legs.

Sitting down is horrendous but I am scared of staying in bed due to the possibiity of re occurring blood clots. How do you pass the time if you don't mind my asking.

I keep changing my posture every so often and walk from one room to another or up and down the hallway to try to keep muscle tone.

I got a painful spasm in the right scapula following a meal. I assume that using aa knife and fork was enough to induce a spasm.

This is all sooooooooooo cruel. I just want a normal life again.

Jean

Jean

Hi Terry

I am having a bad day with stiffness and spasms in  my knees and legs. Any advice would be welcomed.Just had a hot shower, washed my hair moved around to avoid postural stress and still feeling rotten and stiff muscles.

I am scared of drinking milk as someone said ona forum it can worsen thyroid disorders.

Have you ever heard of that before?

Jean

 

Heart related possibly?  That went away with proper thyroid medication. 

Never heard about a milk/ muscle connection. 

If one has an hypothyroidism I believe one is more likely to develop food intolerances, including a milk intolerance. It's not a reason to avoid milk unless this happens.

This is very interesting. I was tests in March for food intolerances and found to have an intolreance to gluten, wheat, milk and yeast. Those were the mainones.

Hi Terry

It was based on a posting saying that milk intolerance is common in hypo. I wondered why.

Are you mobilising as per normal/

Jean

Hello Terry, Jay, Michelle, Barbara, hellsbells, Iona, Diane, hope I haven't missed anyone out !

Just to let you all know that I have started a new discussion on cough, breathlessness in hypothyroidism. Jean x