Personal Independence Payment. Myths and Fact.
Posted , 21 users are following.
There are a lot of worried people posting on here, who are dreading being moved from disability living allowance (DLA) to personal independence payment (PIP). Can I offer some advice from experience I've gained with my disability support group and from campaigning when PIP was first consulted on and introduced. Firstly, lets dispel a couple of myths. The DWP do NOT have a 'list' of disabilities which qualify claimants for PIP. The only people likely to be awarded benefit without a face to face medical on account of their condition are those people who are terminally ill, who can apply under special rules. According to DWP this means having 12 months or less to live - even these people must prove they are terminally ill by providing specialist medical evidence, and currently only 45% of claims made under the special rules are allowed because the claimant is judged to have longer to live than the prescribed time. Harsh I know, but it's a fact.
With the exception of those people who have two amputated legs (either above or below knee) - who will automatically qualify for the enhanced rate mobility allowance (but NOT the daily living allowance as they will have to be assessed the same as everyone else ) - all other claimants wIll be assessed on the effect their disability or condition has on their day to day lives. It is the effect of the disability, NOT the disability itself that counts. PIP is nothing like DLA. It does not assume a certain level of disability according to the claimant's condition - it is not interested in the disability itself, but instead assesses the impact of the disability or condition on the claimants' ability to carry out a range of activities which would be encountered in everyday life. This is designed to give an overall idea of how much of a barrier the claimants' condition presents to life as experienced by people without disability.
PIP only applies to those people of working age. People who were aged 65+ in April 2013, will remain on DLA for as long as they continue to qualify. Similarly those aged under 16 will continue to claim DLA under children's rules, and will be invited to claim PIP from their 16th birthday.
Most people who claim PIP will have a face to face assessment by a qualified health professional - regardless of their condition or disability. Anyone can make a fresh claim for PIP and those who are already claiming DLA will be contacted by the DWP between now and September 2017 in order to change to PIP. The first letter will invite the claimant to ring the DWP to discuss the claim - this has to be done by the date specified in the letter or DLA may be stopped. Once the telephone conversation has taken place the claimant will be sent an application form to complete, and again, this must be returned to DWP by the date specified. Once the DWP
receive the form they will pass it to the assessment provider who will decide whether a face to face assessment is necessary - if so, they will invite the claimant to attend an assessment centre. If you do not Attend the assessment your benefit will be suspended so if the date is inconvenient make sure you contact the DWP to rearrange it.
When completing the application form it is vital that you read the questions carefully, make sure you have understood each question and that your answers are specific to each question, answering as fully as you can. Before answering think about your disability and how it affects the activity they are asking about, give details of any pain or discomfort you experience either during or after the activity, tell them about any aids or appliances you use for any activity (for example a shower stool because you cannot stand in the shower), and also about any help you need from another person. If you have an aid or appliance but still need help from someone else, it's important to say so, as is telling them about any aids or appliances you cannot use (for example, a long handled shoe horn is unlikely to be of any use to someone with paralysed or immobile feet, as they would need assistance from someone else to place their feet in shoes properly). Remember that it is not enough to say that you cannot do something, you must tell them why and what help you need with each activity. Remember also that the more information you can give and the clearer idea the DWP have about how your disability affects you,the less likely they are to ask for a face to face assessment. Any gaps you leave in the information you give, means that the assessor can ( and usually does) make assumptions which may not be correct.
Anything you say on the application form can be used to assess your needs, so remember that once you have said something you cannot take it back, and in the event of you challenging the decision, a review or tribunal hearing would want to know why you may now be saying something which contradicts what you put on the form. Make sure you include how long it takes you to complete each activity and don't guess. When it comes to the distances for the mobility component, it's really important that you don't guess - measure how far you can comfortably walk and at what point you have to stop because of pain or other discomfort.
Above all, remember that for all activities, to be judged able to do something, you have to be able to do it safely, repeatedly (as often as necessary throughout the day) and in a reasonable time period (no more than twice the maximum time it would take someone without a disability). Account also has to be taken of the type and duration of pain or other discomfort you experience, and whether you can do an activity to an acceptable standard - for example if you can walk up to 50 metres you would qualify for mobility allowance at the standard rate, but if you experience pain and have to sit and rest frequently, you may be judged as unable to walk the distance in a reasonable time, or if you are unable to walk the distance more than once in a day because of pain you experience afterwards, you may be judged as unable to complete it repeatedly. Similarly, if you fall frequently because of weakness in your legs or feet, you may be judged as not able to complete it to an acceptable standard. All of these scenarios would likely qualify someone for the enhanced rate under the reliability criteria, despite their ability to physically walk further than the maximum allowable distance for the enhanced rate - it is the manner in which they do it that counts.
Finally. Keep a copy of absolutely everything you send to the DWP -the application form and any supporting evidence you send with it. It will be invaluable in the event of an appeal.
After the assessment, if you do not agree with the decision you must ask the DWP for a mandatory reconsideration - do this by writing to them to ask them to look again at the decision - say why you disagree and point out any errors they may have made. If this is not successful you can then appeal to a tribunal.
I hope this helps and please feel free to ask any questions - I am following the discussion and will be happy to help if I can.
5 likes, 98 replies
Diamond14 pam02338
Posted
Hi can anybody help me. I currently get pip & had a letter to complete renewal, completed form late & now recieved letter stating I am having a home assessment, I'm worried about this, why would I get home visit? I was only awarded my pip for 2years, I'm worried it will stop as I work aswell, I have to go to work as if I don't it makes my depression worse although my physical condition is bad & im in constant pain (bad hips & bad back) broken discs & arthritis, I have to position myself all the time I am stood one min & sat next, I spend my days in bed on my days off & don't go out & socialise & I only go out to attend work ,appointments etc. I am really anxious & really worried about this, I am also due to have another procedure on my back this month it's a long standing on going process. I need help with washing get dressed cooking cleaning majority of time. When my mood is really bad I will not move from bed & have had to be watched with my medication. Any help would be great, my visit is next week I only received letter day ago. I'm confused as to why they would come visit me when I have not requested visit & I attended a atos centre when first applied. Thanks
Terry3fy pam02338
Posted
I hope you can help.I sent off my pip claim form,i am currently getting full
care and mobility dla.I included a report from the occupational therapist
and g.p....a week later i got a text stating that they had enough info
and my claim had been passed to the decision maker.Will i have to have a
face to face ?or will they make a paper based claim,,,(awarded or not)
Thanks in advance
jgordon5 pam02338
Posted
Hi Pam, I have been on DLA for some years but I'm just too young (!) at 67 to continue on DLA and so applied for PIP, which I learned yesterday has been refused. I look alright but I have T1 diabetes and although I'm very conscientious with trying to manage it, I have many hypos and hypers - on a daily basis. I have better control since being given a pump and I've been funding my CGM sensors (continuous glucose monitor) with my DLA money; plus it pays for a therapist who keeps me mobile. Plus, it helps me continue to have a car - I could not even get to my pump or dental appointments without it I explained how difficult it is for me on a daily basis to carry out many things, like even going shopping, or sometimes walking somewhere without dizziness but these were all discounted by the assessor. I will request a mandatory reconsideration but I wondered if you have any suggestions that might help. The criteria for PIP do not seem to fit hidden diseases like T1. I also have neuropathy in my hands and drop things a lot, arthritis in my hands and feet and trouble with my balance; but I just carry on ....if I have to sit down when I'm out for a walk, or on occasion lie down, then so be it. The system seems to be against those who try to keep themselves as healthy and mobile as they can. It's discouraging...
denise15811 jgordon5
Posted
Hi,
With PIP it's not about a diagnosis it's about how your condition/s affect you in daily life. Yes it's totally different to DLA. Many people who qualified for that don't qualidy for PIP. This doesn't mean that you don't. If you struggle in daily life with things like dressing/undressing, preparing/cooking meals, budgeting, mobility (shopping isn't in the criteria) then there's no reason why you shouldn't be awarded.
Did you send in plenty of evidence to support your claim? This is where people fail to understand that you need to do this. DWP will tell you that they'll contact medical professionals about your health. They very often don't do this so never leave it to them. If you didn't send any then please send some with your MR. If you did send some them if possible send more. Did you ring to ask for a copy of the assessment report? If not then please do this. You only have 28 days from the date on the letter to ask for the MR so don't delay. Most MR decisions don't change so also be prepared to take it to tribunal. If you have difficulty with anything for the MR or Appeal if you need this then CAB are very good with helping people. Good luck, it's a long process.
jenny_91790 pam02338
Posted
Hi
I've just had my assessment face to face appointment and I received Dla high and middle I struggled to get up and get down my husband helped me.
I have osteoarthritis in my spine, fibromyalgia, I had a discectomy which didn't help made things worse spinal spongylitis , incontince , IBS and headaches constantly I forgot to mention on face to face appointment about my right eye would go black on and off I was so nervous sick to my stomach. I just wanted to throw up and I'm only 35 years old will my age affect the decision I'm really worried I can't do things for myself and the girl seemed ok but I was confused on questions and what they meant and answered about how bad it affects me I have had evidence sent in off everything.
She even said I don't have your tablets here can you tell me what they are I did tell everything and some questions when I was confused my husband explained things and she wasn't happy or impressed with him speaking but he done it anyway I was so uncomfortable that whole time she didn't get me to do much as I need a crutch to help me and always need someone with me I forget to mention about my swelling and balance being off I froze a lot with confusion and feeling sick and in agony she seen how sore I was and my husband said it was ridiculous trailing me down here when I'm like this but good because I got her out of the house because I don't go anywhere I even hide away from my kids I am depressed and seeing someone to talk to.
I'm just so frightened on what she was thinking and she did say sorry for having you down but it's what we have to do.
I'm scared I have information sent in and just got a phone call after this from OT for an appointment next week which I forgot about
I'm so worried what do you think she said I'll have a descision next week or two. I'm all over the place.
denise15811 jenny_91790
Posted
Hi Jenny,
Your question could have easily been missed by adding it to this very long thread. To start a new thread so it doesn't get missed next time, there's a blue box at the top of all the posts that says "new discussion" you can put your own heading this way and be sure it's not missed.
Anyway, your age doesn't matter because you're within the age limits for PIP so that won't go against you. PIP is about how your conditions affect you daily and not about a diagnosis.
Decison times vary wildly accross the country and can be anything from 2-8 weeks depending on backlog. You can ring DWP PIP and ask for a copy of the assessment report, this will give you some idea what that decision will be. Mostly the Decision Maker go with what's stated in the report. It's very rare for them to go against it.
Yes it's very stress i agree, i've been through it all myself twice. Hopefully for you the decision won't be too long. Good luck.
jenny_91790 pam02338
Posted
Hi Denise
Thank you for getting back to me I'll make sure to put in the new discussion box.
Sorry I'm new on this and so worried that even my hair is starting to fall out.
I get scared a lot and not knowing what I'm doing at times and it's horrible I'll phone Monday and ask for a copy of this report I'm surprised I never even thought of that to ask while it finished.
I'll keep everyone updated and get that sorted Monday if I remember I'll write down somewhere.
Thank you
denise15811 jenny_91790
Posted
No problem, it's just so easy to miss a question when it's amongst another thread.
It's the DWP PIP you need to ring for that report, not the assessment providers. They'll send you a copy once they recieve both copies, the paper one and digital one.
Everyone gets extremely stressed when it comes to these assessments and the waiting times for decisions etc.
jenny_91790 denise15811
Posted
I phoned for a copy and mines hasn’t been looked at yet and they said once I receive the decision on what they or don’t give me I have to phone back then and ask for a report. I can’t believe they can do that is this right I’m getting nowhere with them. I just got my appointment for the OT after my face to face appointment and they are adapting things around the house for me and we have already got a disabled bathroom put in for me and giving me a wheelchair to get around places and a different walking stick to use. She is even looking into the hospital records about my bladder to check if I’m entitled to a downstairs toilet. Should I get a report of this and send it in for evidence or wait I’m not sure what to do.
denise15811 jenny_91790
Posted
Hi,
No it's not right. As always the DWP mostly have no idea what they're talking about. You have every right to have a copy of the assessment report before a decision has been made. They will only send a copy out to you once DWP have recieved both copies of the report thenselves. Both copies mean the paper one and digital one. Sometimes assessment reports are sent to audit, this means your file could have been chosen to be checked. It's nothing for you to worry about and checks are totally random but it can delay the decision process by some weeks. DWP can't make a decision until they have the report back. I would advice you ring again tomorrow and ask them if they've recieved the report back yet, if they have then ask again for a copy to be sent to you. It's ESA they won't send until after the decision's been made.
As for sending more evidence, there probably won't be any time to do this now. Post takes anything up to 7 working days sometimes longer to arrive at the department it's supoosed to be, then it's got to be put onto the computer. In this time a decision could well have been made. I would advice if a decision doesn't go in your favour then you can use that evidence for the mandatory Reconsideration and Tribunal appeal if needed. Hope this helps.
jenny_91790 denise15811
Posted
Thank you again you are a very kind person for helping people with disability you are a credit to everyone needing advice. I’ll let you know what they say I just can’t understand why he said I can’t get any copies until I receive a decision. Why say that to me I just don’t get it then why not tell people the truth and say we have to wait until they receive these copies themselves and then we can get copies I’m sure they have been informed I’m looking copies also my face to face appointment was on the 15/09/17 just nearly a week ago was I too early maybe phoning. I don’t know but I’ll let you know as I’m not settling well until I know what there doing worst is I’ve so many appointments to get to and I’m really afraid of them saying the car needs to be returned if the decision gets dropped or took off me I’ve no other transport except taxis and they are expensive to and from places . Then I’ll have to try fork out for a car I probably can’t afford.
Speak soon x
denise15811 jenny_91790
Posted
Thank you Jenny for those very kind words! I have a disability myself and vlaim both ESA and PIP. I just love helping others
1 week is fine to ask but like i said maybe they haven't got both copies yet. Sometimes i find if you ring DWP and you don't get the answer you're expecting, ring again to speak to someone different then you may have more luck.
Are you transfering from DLA or is this a PIP review? If you're transfering from DLA how long have you been claiming high mobility? x
jenny_91790 denise15811
Posted
Hi Denise
I’ve had DLA FOR around 6 Year’s now my condition had gotten worse over the second year and they awarded me high mobility and middle care because off my disability getting worse. one day there is a big possibility that my legs could loose sensation and feeling altogether I do throughout the day loose it on and off but it’s not all gone yet I’m just going to find it hard to adjust to using a wheelchair as it took me long enough trying to adjust using a walking stick because I’m fed up of people looking at me and I feel that they are judging me as I can tell what there faces are saying about me and they have seen me with it for years and still I see that look on there faces. I’m referred back to my therapist to try and help me because I’m feeling like I’m in a dark place again and I don’t like this feeling. I did have serious thoughts of suicide years ago and I’m feeling I’m going down that road again that’s why I’m being referred back because I don’t want to I know I need help.
Thank you just so worried
jenny_91790 denise15811
Posted
Yes I was on dla for 6 Year’s now and transferred from middle to high mobility within the second year of claiming. I hope you receive this message as the other one I sent is being looked at and I haven’t said anything wrong in it just letting you know and explaining my situation or maybe because I mentioned my mental stability on how I was thinking that’s probably why. I’m seeing someone soon about my depression.
I will in time loose feeling to my legs and feet I was told by a doctor and they said my condition could put me in a wheelchair permanently. I also am getting an MRI scan tomorrow evening as an update my doctor wants a refreshed scan to see how things are progressing in my back.
I am in so much pain and stress over this.
I’m transferring DLA to PIP.
Patient jenny_91790
Posted
Hi jenny 91790
We note from a recent post which you have made to our forum that you may be experiencing thoughts around self-harm. If we have misinterpreted your comments then we apologies for contacting you directly. But if you are having such thoughts then please note that you are not alone in this, and there are people out there that can help.
If you are having these suicidal thoughts then we strongly recommend you speak to someone who may be able to help. The Samaritans offer a safe space where you can talk openly about what you are going through. They can help you explore your options, understand your problems better, or just be there to listen.
Their contact details are on our patient information leaflet here: https://patient.info/health/dealing-with-suicidal-thoughts, which also offers lots of other advice on how you can access the help you may need.
If you are having such thoughts then please do reach out to the team at the Samaritans (or the other people detailed in our leaflet) who will understand what you're going through and will be able to help.
Kindest regards
Patient
denise15811 jenny_91790
Posted
Hi Jenny,
I'm sorry you're having those thoughts. Maybe a visit to your GP would be agood idea and have a chat with him/her. Having to wait for a referral isn't always great.
Yes these assessments are very stressful. Hopefully you won't have to wait much longer for a decision and hopefully it will be in your favour and then you will be able to relax a little more. xx
jenny_91790 Patient
Posted
I am speaking to someone as I feel I’m going back to the way I was years ago as I explained yes thank you for concerning my feelings I am sorted with someone I was explaining how things have been and I know the signs off when I need help only because my husband notices and kids and that’s what makes me go get help my family.
Thank you very much
jenny_91790 denise15811
Posted
I just phoned the DWP for an update as I haven’t heard anything and they have everything and it’s with the decision makers and I’m feeling even worse now that I know that they say hopefully in a week or two I will receive my outcome off what’s what. They still won’t send me copies out until I receive my outcome they said that is how it works I can’t believe they are refusing to send out when they have them sitting there in front of them. It’s an absolute shambles how they work. Now all I can do is wait for a letter to come through my door in a week or two.
Sorry for moaning
denise15811 jenny_91790
Posted
They are wrong to refuse you a copy of that assessment report before a decision is made. I'd be ringing them back to ask to speak to a manager! If the decision doesn't go in your favour then a copy of this report will help you write the Mandatory Reconsideration.
If you put a mobile number down on the form the you filled in they'll text you once they have all the evidence they need. Once they send those texts a decision is usually made quite quickly. Hopefully for you it won't be too much longer. Please do come back and let me know the outcome. Sorry for the delay in replying, haven't been feeling very well the last few days. Good luck!