Tomorrow Starts Today

Well then, we agree, don't we? As I've said in both my posts, Troy should seek help with it rather than going cold turkey, and not stay on benzos for too long. I was actually more generous than you, suggesting max two weeks rather than one, but I think you're right.

I'm all in favour of limited benzos being prescribed for the immediate come-down period. The problem is that they're too easy to obtain on-line these days. This is what happened to many of the people I've spoken to. The diazepam or whatever gave them a relatively easy initial ride, their doctor rightly refused to prescribe any more, so they got hold of it on-line, thus substituting one addiction for another.

Benzos are a useful tool when coping with withdrawal, and a short course can be very helpful and certainly won't produce addiction. But they should be treated with caution and used strictly according to medical directions. Too many people (including doctors in the past) have sadly seen them as a "magic bullet".

You are right about medication becoming the next addiction...or, the accompanying addiction.  Been there.  Short term use, brill. After that...another coping crutch. Sorry to be blunt about it. Two weeks is max time from Doc. So that is when you should stop taking them. 

"The problem is that they're too easy to obtain on-line these days."

No, the system is wrong. I've been prescribed diazepam twice in the last 6 or 7 months. One packet does me, and it is done in four days.

If my GP won't give it to me, then I am quite within my rights to purchase it. The same way that people here purchase Campral, Nalmefene & naltrexone, because the people in charge of handing it out, don't have much of an understanding of it.

Why should I be told to go cold turkey, because someone deems not in need of diazepam. The import business exists, because our internal system is failing people.

Before you say it, I did take note that you are in favour of benzos.

RHBG, I'm genuinely happy for you that you are able to find relief in taking diazepam for short periods and that you can get in on-line. I know from the stories I hear in my work that it can be a blessing during acute periods of alcohol withdrawal.

You clearly understand this potentially addictive drug and are able to follow the rules. Sadly, this isn't true for everyone, so I still believe a few caveats are necessary on a forum like this one, where we can't assess the vulnerability or personal situation of everyone who posts. Not everyone has your strength of will and your grasp of the nature of benzos. As Alonangel says, she's "been there" and learned the hard way.

Peace!

Lily

Sorry I got your name wrong - meant RHGB of course!

I think you're missing the point a bit, it wasn't to have a go at you. It was to say, what happens when the GP says no? Well, then the internet comes into play. I have my diazepam from my GP, they were a bit sceptical the second time and asked me to convince her what had changed.

I said, 'I can't lie to you, I don't have the answer' (well, I can lie, I am very good at it, if needs be, but I am basically an intrinsically honest person). 'But what I do know, is what will happen if you say no. I can tell you, I will go down the pub at lunchtime, because I don't want to cold turkey. But also, I don't want to/my body can't carry on drinking, therefore I need a longer term plan and if the medical system can't help me, then I need to look elsewhere'.

I got my diazepam, but what do you think would have happened if I'd been turned away? You are left between a rock and a hard place, until the alcohol recovery centres/services steep up to the plate and are forced to offer NHS approved drugs, GPs should be allowed to help the patients that they know best.

It isn't a case of being to easy to get them on the internet, it is a case of it being too hard to get them through the proper channels which can be monitored for patient safety.

Hello Lily.  I just want to add that I had to ask Doc for more Diazepam, in the past. Two weeks on anything just starts a new habit, for me. I then try to reduce. I can now take it on an "as required" basis. I always have some on standby.....I need to have that option.

I have 2 X 28 5mg packs of diazapam prescribed by my doctor. I don't take diazapam on a regular basis, but have been in a situation when I've been so anxious for no apparent reason, that it's either tablets or vodka. I don't regard myself as having a strength of will. With respect it's hardly rocket science to grasp the nature of benzos and read the information leaflet. Nor is it difficult to understand that if taken on a regular basis, there is a risk of addiction.

I am with RHGB on this. It isn't the case of diazapam being too easy to obtain. It's more like my GP won't prescribe diazapam, I don't want to resort to alcohol, so what choice am I left with? - ordering on-line.

IMO if a person has capacity to order on-line, they also have capacity to read and understand that it's for short term use only, and continued use can lead to addiction.

I'd love to know why some dr's seem to prescribe benzos, whilst on the other hand, many choose not to. Is that because it's easier, or is it simply down to cost.

Paul may come along (and this is one of the few points we disagree on) and will say that in the past many people got hooked on benzos.

But that was many years ago, when doctors used to hand out valium like comfetti - mother's little helper as it was called.

Doctors didn't reallly understand them and because they were handed out long term on repeat prescription, like they were aspirin or something, then it did create a problem.

I understand (from my GP) GMC guidelines are to be careful about prescribing it, but say nothing about it is forbidden to use comon sense and prescribe them where they are needed. To be honest, the amount you got given is exactly the same as I got, both times and seems to be the standard 'allowance'.

A GP that knows his patients is in the perfect person to make a judgement call and they should have been the people (I say they, because I have two GPs allocated to me) to prescribe me Campral, it is pretty much harmless. All that Addaction know, is what medications I am taking and a standard blood test, for some reason they weren't passed any details from my GP. I am glad that they prescribed, and have no complaints, but I still think my GP should have dealt with it.

Yes, I agree years ago diazapam, (Valium), chlordiazepoxide (Librium) and particularly lorazepam (ativan) were easily available, and, as you say, were handed out like sweets. CBT and counselling weren't offered as an alternative to medication.

People took them for years on repeat prescriptions, and never went near their GP. I've often heard it said that withdrawing from heroine is easier than withdrawing from alcohol. Having never taken heroine, I wouldn't know if that's true or not.

What I do know, and have experienced, is that withdrawing from alcohol can be sheer hell and dangerous. Methodone is given to help heroine users withdraw from heroine, so by the same logic why should alcohol withdrawal sufferers not be offered the same help automatically, I.e. chlordiazepoxide or  

diazapam.

By implying that some people don't or can't understand that benzos are addictive, this is fully explained in the patient information leaflets and caveats need to be put in place as the vunerability of people which can't be assessed on a forum, is I feel rather insulting. Would this apply to methodone users too?

As I have already said, it isn't difficult to understand or read information leaflets which clearly state that benzos are not for long term use, I do have capacity to read and understand what I've read

RHGB my apologies, my last reply shouldn't have been addressed to you, but to lily

Water off a duck's back, don't worry. I was in Addaction yesterday, to quickly sign some forms (new system they're implementing) and see my case worker before she goes on maternity leave.

When I spoke to her on the phone last week, she said it was a standard letter and didn't affect people like me (she is trying to get my GP to do the Campral prescriptions, whilst Addaction still take responsibility for me). It was, in her own words, more aimed at people who come in for a daily prescription. To which I can only think is methadone.

Whilst waiting, I was looking around at the posters in the room, the ratio must have been 90/10 drugs/alcohol. Maybe some of the issues are a mindset that alcoholism is a bolt on to their core service and it isn't so much of an issue - I made a note to ask them next time what their ration is. I don't think it is an Addaction thing, I think this is probably the same with most of these services.

My point being, they seem to realise the seriouness of a heroin user coming off and don't tell him to write a heroin shots diary and taper it off and come in and have group therapy.

But alcohol withdrawal cold turkey can kill you (especially if you have been a long term user), heroin withdrawal (whilst unpleasant) will not kill you, except in extreme circumstances.

My GP refused to give me diazapam even though I had them on repeat prescription from another GP. I'm not sure if it is safe to order them online. If you have, let me know. I don't mind spending the money as long as I can do this detox safely with tablets that are authentic x

Diazepam is more difficult to get than the likes of Selincro, because it is a controlled drug. I take a drug called Campral, which is for people who have given up alcohol, but it is similar to Selincro in that it is not a controlled drug and is therefore available from a wider source of online pharmacies that won't touch diazepam.