Your 2 worst experiences with alcohol?
Posted , 9 users are following.
I don't know if anyone wants to be as honest as I can be...but I wanted to post this for ME to remember...although...both of these things happened many years ago...I have never forgotten them...and they never really stopped me from drinking again...but...these are pretty bad and as I get older...I would hope I could come to terms with maybe these are the reasons I relapsed...maybe I haven't loved myself enough from these days forward.
#1 - My oldest son was in the hospital dying of a cocaine overdose. I was woken out of a drunken stupor in the night by my partner (my sons Dad)..and he told me my son had overdosed..and that he mumbled to a Nurse that he wanted his Mom. I COULD NOT GET UP...I COULD NOT GET DRESSED. I was freaking out....and I said to my partner I needed to have a BEER before we left...he reluctantley agreed...but he was in a fury...screaming at me...etc..I was trying to choke the beer down...and when it was gone...it wasn't enough to get me up...So, I said...1 MORE! He did not wait...he left me there....I was devestated and hated my own guts. My son ended up surviving...and when he came home...he refused to talk to me...(I don't think he remembered he asked for me...but I am sure his DAD told him I was too drunk/hungover to come). Anyway, shortly after that I had my first long stint of sobriety and when I reached 1 year...(this boy lived with me everyday and would not speak to me)....I reached 1 year and he had left a drawing in my car which said..."Take this to work"....and a long note stating how proud he was of me and how glad he was that I was ok. I still don't know if he could or has ever forgiven me totally.
#2 - My youngest son..needed open heart surgery at 3 months old.
The hospital was in another state...one of the best in the world. So my thoughts were my son will be fine. I was assured by the heart doctor that he would be fine...but he would be one of the FIRST in the world to have this "teflon patch" procedure. The heart surgeon agreed with us that we could drive our son to the surgery and he didn't have to go in the ambulance as long as we went right there. I remember calling in work...and feeling FREE...."to drink". So sad isn't it?
We were told it was a 2 hour surgery....after about 3 hours...a surgeon came out and gathered family into a room and said they were struggling to get his heart re-started and that they may have to insert a pace maker (this is not a good thing for a child so young...would mean many more surguries as he grew). I remember being p*SSED.....because the beer we had stopped and put in the room for after surgery (for me) my partner didn't drink....had to wait.....Of course my nerves were shot...but looking back it was all about ME...and my BEER once again.
The surgery took a total of 8 hours to complete and the surgeons were successful in getting his heart started and it ended up he did not need a pacemaker. I remember feeling so guilty the whole operation...because many family members were crying...I was stoic...and MAD that the surgery was taking so long and that I had to wait to drink! Imagine? I didn't even comprehend the fact that my son was literally dying and they were trying to save him...people kept telling me that...and I kept saying...he will be fine....I was a little beligerant in saying....I can't believe these TOP surgeons are taking so long! Unreal.
Thank God my son is ok....he is 25 now....and he has participated in life with no further difficulties with his heart.
SO...this is how powerful alcohol really is when you are ACTIVE. I love my boys...and always have.
Today...I would lay down completely SOBER and take a gun SHOT for either of my boys....But honestly....put a drink in me and I am TRULY...GOOD for NOTHING.
1 like, 71 replies
dontknow Misssy2
Posted
It’s horrible living with some of the things you/we have done unintentionally when misusing alcohol. Living day to day is sometimes like being on death row? In the cell next to where they are testing the hangman’s rope?
Many of us on this site have lost one thing or another. For some it’s been a job or self-respect to the other end where they have lost friends and family. Some even permanent internal terminal damage and the loss of loved ones. “No one wins” except those selling the alcohol or drugs to combat the withdrawal, anxiety and depression.
As for me I am a coward, I walked away from two marriages and two beautiful daughters because I did not want them to see their father die. Eventually when I became sober I regained contact with my eldest daughter. Her eldest daughter, my granddaughter has Muscular Dystrophy; her mother’s new boyfriend was a bar-steward??? Whose brother abused her? And where was I when she needed me most.
I can’t turn back the clock and it is something I have to live with and cope with; since being sober I have been open and frank with her, answering any questions she asks “honestly and openly”. This has led to me and my daughter having a great relationship. We talk about anything and everything knowing that we are not judging each other. Her forgiveness has now given me the opportunity to be there for my grandkids and regain the years I lost with my own daughter. However forgiving me for not being there to protect her is another thing.
You said that your events never stopped you continuing to drink. That is because your perception of alcohol is “normal”. What I mean is you still see drinking as a normal pass time which the rest of the adult population undertake. However me, you and others on this site are not normal??? We produce more adrenalin than your average Joe on the street. This makes the withdrawal of alcohol much worse than someone producing low amounts of adrenalin; causing anxiety, depression, panic attack, seizures and even death.
The way I managed to remain sober for 9 years now was by changing my perception of alcohol. If this is how I feel when alcohol is coming out of my system “I must be allergic to it”. Alcohol withdrawal syndrome is a diagnosis for people like us who inevitably end up alcohol dependent. Like someone who has been diagnosed allergic to peanuts. If they carried on eating peanuts fully aware of the outcome you would refer to them as an idiot.
I believe if more GPs would diagnose people AWS it would stop a high percentage becoming fully alcohol dependent.
Keep talking to your sons openly and honestly, they will find a good friend in you. Never underestimate a child’s love and forgiveness.
Allan
Misssy2 dontknow
Posted
vickylou dontknow
Posted
"However, you, me and others on this site are not normal" you may think that about yourself, but please don't include me in that statement. A lot of the self destructive things I have done in my life are not due to withdrawing from alcohol, they were done because I chose to do them. Also I am not allergic to alcohol
15 years ago, my husband had open heart surgery. I took him to hospital and stayed till the end of visiting. On the way home I picked up a bottle of gin and went home, I wasn't withdrawing from alcohol when I bought it
He had the operation on the Monday and was told he should be able to come home on the Wednesday. However on the Tuesday night, I started drinking, through the night and the following morning, knowing full well I wouldn't be able to drive and pick him up. He phoned me, all excited as the operation had gone well and he was just waiting for me.
He should have been able to come home at 2pm. Instead the poor bloke had to wait till 7pm before his friend finished work and could collect him. Where was I, passed out on the bed, again not due to was.
dontknow vickylou
Posted
It must have been a very scary and an anxious time waiting whilst your husband was undergoing life threatening surgery. Adrenalin regulates your anxiety system, what better way to suppress anxiety than with easy accessable alcohol.
AWS is a biological fact, however if you believe your anxiety is not regulated by adrenalin, "i appoligise".
Allan
vickylou dontknow
Posted
dontknow vickylou
Posted
sorry for the delay in replying, just got home from work.
What you are saying is normal, most people havnt heard or dont understand (AWS) alcohol withdrawal syndrome fully. First off you dont have to be an alcoholic to suffer from this syndrome. I will attempt to explain it the way your GP should be explaining it to you.
Firstly your anxiety system is regulated like a thermostat for central heating? However your anxiety is regulated by (norepinephrine). Norepinephrine is a nurotransmitter whos job is to send messages from your body via the blood stream to the brain. We have many of these nurotransmitters in our body, each sending different messages.
However norepinephrines job is to tell the brain to create adrenalin.
This regulates your anxiety or as you said your fight or flee mechanism. The more adrenalin the more anxious you become.
So how does AWS effect norepinephirine? Ethanol in the alcohol attaches itself to the norepinephrine, making it twice the size. Whilst joined together the norepinephrine and the ehtanol cant enter the walls of your arteries in order to enter the blood stream. In effect cutting of the messages for your body to produce adrenalin. This is why you feel more relaxed when drinking alcohol.
However the danger is when you stop drinking? 7 to 12 hours afterward the ethanol detaches from the norepinephrine. But by this time you have a build up of norepinephrine in your boby. This now sends message after message to the brain to create large amounts of adrenaline for no reason. Causing mild symptoms such as an hangover or the shakes through to anxiety, depression, seizures and in severe cases death.
Those of us who produce a lot of adrenalin naturally; are naturally more anxious? You can even refer to us as highly strung or very sensitive. Somewhere along the line probably subconciously without knowing you have learnt that alcohol supresses your anxiety.
So after going through what you went through with your husband on the operating table your anxiety would have been extremely high. Drinking alcohol as you did, was your way of coping with excess anxiety?
Now lets say for example someone is already suffering from (GAD) general anxiety disorder. Already producing large amounts of adrenalin? the effects of drinking and the withdrawal is likely to be much greater. Me for example i dont suffer anxiety or depression, because i suffer from GAD my withdrawals go strate to seizures. However the reason i kept drinking is because i was misdiagnosed epileptic, however thats another story for another time.
i hope this helps you understand a little more regarding alcohol and anxiety as well as AWS. Take care.
Allan
Misssy2 dontknow
Posted
Misssy2 dontknow
Posted
So our bodies react to stress by releasing adrenaline....And the adrenline is the CAUSE of the racing heart...etc....(true)
But the root cause (true cause, underlying cause) of the problem is caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain which can be heredity, or caused by stress and yes you can apply the "brain" (not the adrenaline) being imbalanced due to alcohol abuse.
Because heavy drinking disrupts our "brains" by relaxing our brains (neotransmitters) and drinking also relaxes another part of brain that get excited. So when a heavy drinker stops all of a sudden all these brain transmitters that were being surpressed start firing off like crazy.
Which "causes" the anxiety.
If we are talkng about AWS (Alcohol Withdrawal Syndrome)...this is a shorter term (acute) condition than its friend PAWS.
PAWS - Post Acute Withdrawal Syndrome - can last for up to a year (but is not chronic..won't last forever)...providing a person who was a heavy drinker...with various symptoms that I have found...lead you to believe that you are CRAZY and alot of people end up drinking again...because they think they can not function correctly without alcohol.
PAWS -symptoms can be things like memory loss, coordination problems, sleep disorders, emotional behavior and stress (so PAWS is our brains trying to recover and firing off and re-learning normal communication with our bodies).
I learned about PAWS 10 years ago in a rehab....and it was a great relief for me to know that the stuff I was forgetting (mainly on my job)...was going to return and that I was suffering from this syndrome. Prior to learning about PAWS...I would quit drinking many times...and if I had ANY those symptoms...I thought I HAD to drink to get back to normal! Learning about PAWS...really made me realize I wasn't crazy and I was able to hold on and not to drink...long enough to reduce many symptoms.
Because I also suffer from GAD....which I do not believe was caused from alcohol in my case (because I have always been anxious and worried)...of course I will always have stress and fatigue, irritability, problems concentrating, etc...but it is not from adrenaline it is because I have a "mental" brain issue....which does release cause my body to release more adrenaline....and adrenaline IS the main hormone that is released causing uncomfortable symptoms...
So the only contradiction I really have with you is that the 7-12 hour or ANY "withdrawal" symptoms are not caused by too much adrenaline..but by a brain function of trying to reconfigure itself without alcohol.
And I have never heard of GAD causing seizures
....are you sure that isn't your epileptic condition?
Misssy2 dontknow
Posted
Yes, vicky or I or you...or someone else can have brain dysfunction...and stress issues...and anxiety...depression etc....but they are not attributed to alcohol abuse or AWS if you don't drink.
Misssy2 vickylou
Posted
I would be super P*ssed off...if I had to wait at the hospital 5 hours for someone for ANY reason....but when I drink...I do that kind of stuff all the time! And during the withdrawals...I'm no good for anyone for at least 4-5 days. Thank God...I have like 11 or 12 days under my belt right now.
Sleeping is better, eating is better...LIVING is better.
Lets chose life!
dontknow Misssy2
Posted
I studied for a BSc in Psychology Science at University. AWS was discovered in 1952 by a nobel prize winning biologist. I have read extensivly into this condition after i was asked to right a paper for a world renound nurologist on epilepsy.
Where you seem to be getting confused is that AWS which i agree should be renamed? comes before PAWS, infact it causes PAWS. Because you were already diagnosed GAD before drinking regardless whether if it was caused by a traumatic event or it is genetic your body naturally produces more epinephrine (adrenalin) than normal.
That said when the ethanol attaches to the norepinephrine you feel more relaxed and able to function. However the suppressed norepinephrine does not just disapear, instead it builds up in your body waiting to rush to your brain once you have stopped drinking. The effect of this hightens your pre-existing GAD making your symptoms considerably worse or more intense. Over time subconciously or conciously you learn to suppress the GAD by reaching for the best thing to suppress it (alcohol). Untill eventually you cant function without alcohol (alcohol dependency). This is the dependency trap.
PAWS as you said could last upto a year and even longer. If you have been drinking heavy for many years the nuropathways in your brain have been suppressed. If you can imagine those pathways as a road map? country lanes A&B roads as well as motorways. The more you use certain thought patterns the stronger the pathway (motorway) those suppressed and not used for years (country lanes). PAWS is basically the natural repairing of these pathways.
After i detoxed i felt like i was being reborn, everything sounded louder, my smell and taste returned i even learned to balance again without having to concentrate.
In Germany and other european countries AWS is a commonly used diagnoses in order to prevent a patient falling into alcohol dependency. Having a diagnosis with a factual aetiology (cause) helps people to refrain from drinking.
Regarding Generalised Epilepsy, it has no aetiology (cause) it is not a diagnosis. My research using professional documentation showed that 75% of adults diagnosed generalised epilepsy were in fact suffering from AWS. GAD never caused my seizures, AWS did by building up the adrenalin in my body. Adrenalin is often used in research to induce seizures.
Since refraining from alcohol i have not had a seizure, i was never epileptic and am now diagnosed AWS. Which is very important because if i need an emergency operation in the future? the anethastist will know not to use ethanol to put me under. As coming around from the surgery could kill me due to withdrawal seizures.
I could go into the cell biology, second generation mitosis (MRNA) (cell production) the actual medical terminology but as you said this is not really the place. Keep going though Vickylou as knowledge is a wonderful thing and keeps you asking yourself questions which is a positive thing.
Allan
dontknow Misssy2
Posted
I just read this post and your information is completely incorrect. My first seizure happened after my first reasonably small amount of alcohol. I woke up in the morning being carried into an ambulance. In hospital prior to any tests i was automatically diagnosed epileptic. The seizure was in fact an alcohol withdrawal seizure. Up untill that point i had never drank alcohol in my life.
In one way you are correct which is AWS is specific to alcohol withdrawal. However you dont have to be an alcoholic. The one thing that does lead to AWS is the use of alcohol to supress any pre-existing anxiety disorder. Which in turn can lead to dependency for many years. This in turn after detoxing causes PAWS.
AWS is a hightened response to the withdrawal of alcohol which is more pronounced in those of us who suffer pre-existing anxiety disorders. Which on withdrawal makes the pre-existing condition more severe. In response some never drink again however others will learn that keeping their anxiety system supressed with alcohol works for them. Untill they eventually become dependent.
Of course if you dont drink alcohol you wont become dependent or suffer more severe anxiety. However because you produce more adrenaline you should be aware that AWS is waiting for you should you drink.
Allan
Misssy2 dontknow
Posted
Any site that you query about AWS...speaks about it ONLY being related to alcohol withdrawal symptoms (hence the name).
The hightened response to withdrawal is the "brain" activity being all messed up. I believe you had a seizure...and it could be very well that your brain was more "disconnected' and confused after your drinking bout...and yes that was caused by alcohol withdrawal...I'm sure.
Please post where you got the information that certain people produce more adrenaline. Again, certain people may have anxiety more often and be producing more adrenaline during that time. However, EVERYONES sympathetic and parasympathtic (nervous system) works the SAME.....The sympathetic reacts to fear...and the para...trys to balance it out....all the bodily reactions are controlled by these 2 central nervous system components and not adrenaline.
We can agree to disagree...but I will share that the medical sites used for me relaying this information I have are Web MD, Mayo Clinic, Patient and Wikipedia.
vickylou dontknow
Posted
i don't understand your penultimate paragraph
Me for example I don't suffer from anxiety or depression, because I suffer from GAD my withdrawals go straight to seizures
Surely that's a contradiction, you don't suffer from anxiety because you suffer from generalised anxiety disorder.
I seem to be missing something, I just don't get it.
Misssy2 dontknow
Posted
Like the last sentence you wrote "However, because you produce more adrenaline you should be aware that AWS is wating for you should you drink."
AWS is awaiting anyone who drinks....they are withdrawal symptoms from drinking...and from us messing with our brains...surpresssing our brains...and when our brains try to snap back into action without the alcohol...thats when we experience anxiety and that is when more of the adrenaline and other hormones are released to our bodies..causing uncomfortable symptoms. Cortisol is another hormone that comes along with the adrenaline to cause our symptoms.
Misssy2 dontknow
Posted
I am in a very bad living situation and I am not drinking right now and haven't drank for 12 days...I already passed the AWS stage....I had horrid withdrawal symptoms.
However right now...because of my Anxiety and the feeling of being trapped...I am experiencing the "fright/Flight" response....and my body is pumping alot of blood thru my heart...I can feel it...all day today....it is because I have a high amount of stress and especially when one person is around....it gets worse. This stress and what my central nervous system is doing (producing the adrenaline and cortisol hormones)...is caused by this situation and not AWS at all.
I'm about to leave for a few hours...and as soon as I leave...this situation for about 5 minutes...I will immediately feel better because my body is going to stop being "upset". Nothing to do with the fact that I was a heavy drinker and nothing to do with AWS....All to do with ONE PERSON.
I would love to have a drink to surpress my thoughts and feelings....but I won't....
dontknow Misssy2
Posted
If you bothered reading my posts properly you can see that i mentioned i studied for a BSc in Psychology Science at University. Which included nurology and cell biology.
I cant explain it any simpler than i already have without drawing you pictures.
It is well documented that people selfmedicate anxiety with alcohol. The withdrawal of alcohol hightens any pre-existing anxiety disorder.
To tell the truth i cant be bothered trying to explain anymore! One minute you or vickylou suffer from GAD which is and anxiety disorder the next you dont? one minute you drink in stressfull situation the next you dont? maybe someone who has an allergy only has that allergy when they are eating or drinking the thing they are allergic too. Any other time their allergy doesnt exist ?????
bye
Misssy2 dontknow
Posted
But you were saying AWS was making us DRINK. No...anxiety and stress makes some of us drink. Some drink just to drink and then they end up with anxiety when their bodies "brains" (make their bodies go nuts).
But no ONE...has AWS without ingesting alcohol..that's just bogus...when AWS stands for Alcohol Withdrawal Syndrome.
AWS does not stand for Adrenaline Wacked Out syndrome.
GAD is an anxiety disorder but AWS is not.....AWS is a Syndrome (short lived after alcohol ABUSE).
Allergies are a whole different topic...no one has ever said that people who are alcoholics are ALLERGIC to alcohol. Some people want to spin it that way so that they can put a reason as to why they shouldn't drink it that people who don't drink - can understand.
p.s. I studied to be a Nurse.
Misssy2 vickylou
Posted
Like you say GAD is an anxiety disorder....sorry AWS...the puzzle just isn't fitting and I'm sorry if we are picking on you...or at least I'm sorry if I am...I explained earlier too..that I worked in Quality the majority of my work life and I have to have things make sense....
And again to your comment about studying for a BS in Psychology? Including Neurology (which you didn't spell right either time- sorry quality check) and Cell Biology. These courses were also a requirement for Nursing. My last job was working in a company who made medicine from cells (hamster cells)...I am quite knowledgeable in cell biology.
vickylou Misssy2
Posted
No-one has actually said I've got GAD, but I do get anxious over certain things, my main problem is I dwell in the past.
I had a long chat with my husband last night and I know many a man would have walked years ago. He is my rock and has never let me down ever in 35 years of marriage . Shame I can't say the same. We've decided to draw a line over the sand, what's done is done. He is retiring next year and hopefully will have many years to do the things we've talked about over the years. But to do all this, I need to be sober, not live in the past and be open and honest and regain his trust. I know it won't be easy, but I don't want to end up a sad, lonely old lady whose kids only visit occasionally and out of duty, not because they want to
vickylou dontknow
Posted
i have never said that I have been diagnosed or suffered from GAD. All I have said is that from time to time I suffer from episodes of anxiety. The symptoms are constant butterflies, lack of appetite , and insomnia . On rare occasions these symptons can disappear after 5/7 days without alcohol so they cannot be attributed to AWS.
on other occasions some anxiety episodes become so bad that the only thing that helps is alcohol. I can put up with them for so long, but after a while they can become unbearable which is when I resort to using alcohol to relax and get a good night's sleep
vickylou
Posted
i also find it rather strange that whilst studying for your degree, you cannot spell correctly. IT IS NOT NUROLOGY it is spelt NEUROLOGY. I would have thought it plausible for you to be able to spell what you studied, as it tends to make your theories questionable
Misssy2 vickylou
Posted
But HONESTY is the key to sobriety...because it makes us feel "whole", it makes us feel like we are doing the right thing...and when we are doing the right thing we feel GOOD.
The only thing about honesty...is we have to be careful not to go overboard and be honest when it is going to hurt someone. I went way overboard when I was first sober and decided I was going to be HONEST no matter what because I learned how powerful it was to be honest. And I did hurt some people along the way.
One example of honesty that set me free back then: I used to leave work all the time if I were hungover...and I used to make excuses to my boss....all kinds of excuses. I remember being sober for a long period of time maybe a year...and I just wasn't into working any more on a certain day....my brain would not engage....and I felt blah. I walked "proudly" to my bosses office and was completely HONEST with her. I said...Hey, I'm not feeling that well, I'm not concentrating that well....I would like to take the rest of the day off and charge it to my vacation if that is ok with you?
She let me go...I walked to my car smiling because I was honest...free...from the lies that alcohol led me to tell......I enjoyed the rest of that day without fear of being seen out of work...I went into work the next day-refreshed! In the past...if I left "sick"...it was most often the next day I wouldn't show up either because "heck" I was "sick".
Misssy2 vickylou
Posted
From what I was told...and what I have read..if you suffer from these symptoms for more than a couple months....they usually attribute them to generalized anxiety (because your having anxiety for no apparant reason and it is just happening). Then they prescribe drugs to help.
My antidepressent does help....it doesn't FIX everything and no pill ever can fix everything...but I do have "better" days...and more patience...and more clarity in my thinking when I do take the antidepressent regulary. (Sleep better too).